Formation insitu of the formic or acetic acid from there respective sodium salts was always something that interested me because I never felt that the formed sodium sulfate from neutralization would interfere in subsequent reactions to form the peroxyacid of acidic. I have come across this text fairly recently and it seems to support what I always believed anyway and thats these peracid species can be generated insitu from the desolved salt of the organic acid.

My original thought was that Acetic acid could be liberated by the addition of sulfuric acid and converted to the peracid without further purification. It appears from the the paper[1] that it may not even be needed to liberate the salt seeing as how it disassociates in an aq solution to the respective cation and anion anyway.

In aqueous solution dissociation of borax occurs in the following manner:
Na2B407 + H20 <--> 2Na + 2BO2 + 2HBO2
When hydrogen peroxide is added to borax solution, the borate species are
converted into their peroxy forms.

I see no reason that this would not work the same with formates and acetates as it does with a borax solution. What is every ones thoughts on this and if someone where to test this with sodium acetate the smell of peracetic acid should make it self known after its formation correct.


Reference:
[1] http://127.0.0.1//sedit/MISC/PerborateInSitu.pdf

I'm with enkidu, I have doubts that it would work.  I don't have any sodium acetate on hand though, so I can't try.

Sorry about that....

But what I was thinking was when the salt of AcOH disassociates in H2O we end with AcO- , Na+ , H+ and -OH correct? I dont find it a stretch to see AcO- getting oxidised in the presents of H2O2 to AcOO which normaly happens anyway when AcOH is put into solution with H2O2.  The only difference here is instead of the disassociation looking like this (AcO-/ +H) it looks like this (AcO-/ Na+)

LOL

Yup were on the same exact page Doucher. I went to attempt a little bit and the second the sulfuric catalyst his and fizzed a tinybit I thought...... Aww wtf. .  So just like you said I quickly came to the logic of using formates and since my recent oxidation of ethanol to acetic acid went well enough I think an ozone generator is in order to eatup some MeOH and spit out some formates so I can get on with this. Also perborates have been used to make very concentrated solutions of Peracetic acid without the waiting game and an acid catalyst so that could be an option here also that a solution of perborates+acetates= peracids.


Thing bout the sodium sulfate like you mentioned is as long as the H2O2 don't interfere when the peracid is set and forming alot of the sodium sulfate will drop right out in large crystals due to its step and strange solubility curve. Its kind of cool to watch a large amount form giant crystals out of a solution honestly. Its one of the only substances I know of whos solubility goes up with the temp until it reaches a point where it goes down for a few degrees.

I know Iv worked with the oxalic acid/glycerol before to it is some nasty shit. Im looking for a reason to test making formic from methanol what a better reason. . If you check in my short experiment threed there is a paper that talks about the ozone oxidation a bit and the yeilds on that dont look bad at all.

It will but I cant find any potassium permanganate anymore. I use to have a large jug full but that got used by my family sometime ago and when I went to get more I cant find any place that carrys it all though alot claim to. Kind of pisses me off since its a nice universial oxidiser so to speak and yet I dont have any

Got an ACE hardware near you?  They all sell it.

Look for 'filter mate' I believe it was.  It's used for regenerating water softeners and can be found in the same area as the ROOTO.  It's not a set brand name, because at one ACE hardware, it said "potassium permanganate" right on the bottle, and on another one about 7 miles away, it was pretty inconspicuous.  If it says for water softeners, read the back and it will usually give you some hits.  If it says absolutely nothing, open it up while the associates aren't looking.  You'll be able to tell PP from other popular water softener chemicals.