Author Topic: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried  (Read 1682 times)

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #80 on: November 03, 2012, 06:33:18 AM »
Quote
The wide safety margin of loperamide (compared with MPTP and haloperidol) despite metabolism to a potentially neurotoxic pyridinium species likely stems from a combination of factors that include a therapeutic regimen normally restricted to a few days and the fact that loperamide and perhaps LPP+ are P-glycoprotein substrates and are denied entry into the CNS.

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/9/943.long

The question that remains is simple: does propionylloperamide get converted to LPP+ in the brain?
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Balkan Bonehead

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #81 on: November 03, 2012, 06:40:38 PM »
Quote
The wide safety margin of loperamide (compared with MPTP and haloperidol) despite metabolism to a potentially neurotoxic pyridinium species likely stems from a combination of factors that include a therapeutic regimen normally restricted to a few days and the fact that loperamide and perhaps LPP+ are P-glycoprotein substrates and are denied entry into the CNS.

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/32/9/943.long

The question that remains is simple: does propionylloperamide get converted to LPP+ in the brain?

No, because esters like that can't be oxidized into phenylpyridines. There is no unsaturated bond. The real question is whether LPTP, the MPTP analogue, is metabolized into LPP+, and the answer is again no because it is not a MAO-B substrate. N-alkyl-tetrahydropyridines with N-alkyl = something other than methyl, as well as N-alkyl-phenylpiperidin-4-ols are sometimes oxidized by CY-P450 liver enzymes to the quaternary phenylpyridine (see haloperidol), but this is a moot point because we already know that loperamide, if it undergoes this oxidation, exhibits no neurotoxicity, whether it enters the brain or not (most likely not).

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2012, 08:14:02 PM »
From the first paragraph of the cited article:

Quote
Loperamide metabolism was similar in human and rat and involved N-dealkylation to N-desmethylloperamide (M3) as the principal metabolic fate. Other routes of loperamide biotransformation included N- and C-hydroxylation to the loperamide-N-oxide (M4) and carbinolamide (M2) metabolites, respectively. Furthermore, the formation of an additional metabolite (M5) was also discernible in human and rat liver microsomes. The structure of M5 was assigned to the pyridinium species (LPP+) based on comparison of the liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectrometry characteristics to the pyridinium obtained from loperamide via a chemical reaction.

Loperamide exhibits considerable neurotoxicity in infants - those without a fully developed blood brain barrier.
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trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2012, 03:49:15 AM »
Ok so I attempted this reaction with some disappointing results. First I refluxed loperamide pill mass in propionic anhydride at 90 - 100c for about 2.5 hrs.  The pill mass was sampled and did give some activity. I then attempted to extract the loperamide from the dried pill mass with methanol after it was treated with hot water.

Methanol was evaped and the resulting powder was iv'd and orally administered. Iv of approximately 10 - 20mgs was noted to have slight euphoric activity. Oral provided severe stomach irritation in two subjects. 

The case for stomach irritation is because either the methanol wasn't totally evaporated from the extract or because my propionic anhydride contained impurities and they carried over into the extract. I didn't notice any irritation when the extract was iv'd though.

I will be attempting another reaction later and will make sure that I have pure prop anhydride along with refluxing the loperamide extracted from pill mass beforehand instead of refluxing with GUPs. I did use sodium acetate as a catalyst. Maybe i will also maintain a higher temp for a longer period of time when refluxing next time too.

jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #84 on: November 08, 2012, 03:57:32 AM »
i wonder did you successfullly make pyrosulfate or not did your anhydride come over at 176?
if it did'nt, your bisulfite converted your ca propionate to the acid and that can result in fuckall, so riddle me this?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 05:32:08 AM by jon »

trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #85 on: November 08, 2012, 05:20:59 PM »
Well I believe that I did make propionic anhydride but I have no way to confirm either way exactly what I had.  The sodium bisulfate was dehydrated on medium/high heat for 15min until it stopped bubbling and a whitish smoke started to appear. I confirmed this was not steam by placing the lid back on the pot in an attempt to recondense it. If it was steam it would have condensed on the lid.  The molten product was allowed to cool and turned into a hard whitish opaque product that was difficult to remove from the pot, and even more difficult to powder.

Calcium propionate and sodium pyrosulfate were placed into a beer bottle and heated directly on an electric skillet at the max temp of 220c and nothing was distilling over so i place the bottle on the electric stovetop element at medium heat.  I did notice some carry over of sulfur from the calcium propionate/ sodium pyrosulfate reaction vessel into the condenser. Also this reaction got quite hot and parts of the calcium prop/ pyrosulfate mass  were black or yellow. The distilled product that was collected smelled of vinegar and a slight tinged of sulfur. It was clear in color. The fumes that 4ml of the distillate emitted were noticable when the container was opened and could be smelled through the whole room. Although not harsh and an open window removed the smell.

I recall someone saying that p anhydride could be dripped into water and if the droplets didn't dissolve immediately on contact then it was indeed anhydride. Is this true? Or are there any other tests?

jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #86 on: November 08, 2012, 05:40:11 PM »
yes you got it, the sulfur oxides i have heated off under vacum you distilled it to hot.

Balkan Bonehead

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2012, 04:05:22 AM »
I have paosted about this on SM, see acentic anhydride thrad.

trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #88 on: November 10, 2012, 02:47:41 AM »
Should I be stirring the mixture during reflux? Or is just heating the lope/prop anhydride/ catalyst sufficient?

jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #89 on: November 10, 2012, 04:01:06 AM »
just heat that's it, 80-100C

Sydenhams chorea

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #90 on: November 11, 2012, 01:17:43 PM »
I was wondering if anyone has had the ability to check the end-product from this method for impurities by chromatographic means? I am thinking specifically about the elimination product.

Granted it's no krokodil, but I am extremely worried about neurotoxicity of LPP+, whether it is formed from ingesting the elimination product or metabolism of dipropionylloperamide itself.
It is perhaps the narcotic. Hyoscine affects certain people very oddly. One cannot be sure. Sometimes, these cases take strange forms. The victim becomes in a sense, 'mediumistic', a vehicle for all the intangible forces in operation around her.

jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2012, 07:47:14 AM »
the ester has a sweeter taste and r.f or mptp .42visulized by iodoplatnic acid.
and if your temp is right and you use a basic catalyst sodium acetate i guarantee no mptp forming there,
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 07:49:02 AM by jon »

trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #92 on: December 03, 2012, 02:23:14 AM »
I hot methanol extracted 72 2 mg pills, after treating with boiling water. I then evapped the methanol/water. This is when I treated the resulting green goo with room temp acetone. What puzzles me is that the acetone took out most of the green color but left a solid behind that has a light green hue and is not bitter! The coffee filter i used to strain the acetone off of the solid is bitter though.  I saved the acetone and it is cooling down right now to see if any crystals form.

Someone mention that they treated gups with acetone to leave pure lope behind. Is this possible or would the lope be soluble in tone.

I was under the impression that lope would not be soluble in acetone. So my question is, where is the lope? Is the solid left behind the carnauba wax?
 
Pure lope should be very bitter so that is how I am gauging the effectiveness of my extraction at various steps. 


jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2012, 06:10:45 AM »
do this

regarding the deschloro propionyl loperamide it's just like methadone it lasts a long time (at least 14 hours) at first it's great then it's just maintenence.
 i got very adept at extracting loperamide it is an art.
 it is complexed to hypomellose so first you have to slurry it in water then heat it followed by methanol and heat and stirring it has to be gravity filtered at a buchner funnel, it clogs up otherwise. i use a plug of cotton at the end of the funnel to filter fine particulate, then i add 4 volumes water and (NaOH) it crashes out white with the help of a little table salt.
 then i have the base pure dry weigh it mix 1.2 eq formic with 1.2 eq KOH add dry ipa then add 3 eq moles of water (with ratio to formate salt) then 5 mol percent of pd(with ratio to loperamide) be it 10%, or 5% works too.
 prestir 30 seconds then add the base start a reflux and you will see the co2 evolving as it reacts after 1 hour done.
 no more co2.
 then it's evap ipa and i'll use acetone or toulene to filter the base from the formates.
 once this is done it is 10 eq propionic anhydride 5% weight sodium acetate catalyst 3 hours at water bath temps.
 then i can flash the anhydride and use acetone to filter off the base from the acetates toulene is good also.
 dry this and crystalize as a citrate it is slow acting long duration almost identical to methadone.
 I have mastered this chemical process now.
 oh, and a dilute 5% solution of NaOH followed by washing to neitral ph gets the pd/c recycled i think you can use it 20-30 times. it's a realiable source or opiates that can't be stopped it just love that concept.
 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 06:12:41 AM by jon »

trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2012, 03:31:47 AM »
This is what resulted from a methanol extraction of 200 pills. It's green and white , but the texture is flakey, and crumbly. I think there maybe carnauba wax in the sample .  What can be done to purify further? Jon what do u think, is this suitable for esterification?

jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2012, 06:30:35 AM »
ethyl acetate and toulene dissolves carnuba wax yes that's what that is.
just follow my suggestion and basify it and colllect the base for hydrodechlorination or esterification it requires the freebase.
the salt won't acylate because it does'nt dissolve.

trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2012, 04:53:41 PM »
If I want to form the propionic ester of lope I have to freebase it first? What about when you esterified the pill mass directly? I was not aware that the lope had to be a freebase in order to esterfy it

jon

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #97 on: December 10, 2012, 12:13:53 AM »
sodium acetate does that in-situ.

trapstar

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Re: propionoxy ester of loperamide being made as we speak and tried
« Reply #98 on: December 11, 2012, 04:13:30 AM »
Had a little more success this time! I methanol extracted 200 pills. My extraction was contaminated with carnauba wax as shown on the picture above. I esterified this extract wax and all in the standard way, although I was both heavy on catalyst and anhydride by about 50% for both.

After 3 hrs I poured out the greenish brown substance and evapped the p.a. (no tce was introduced into the reflux this time).  I dumped some methanol on it and took up the residue which was then treated with activated c. I added way to much and it absorbed all of my liquid! UH OH! So in a panicked and desperate moment I dumped about 300ml of acetone to try and absorb my goodies from the activated c.

I didn't expect anything to come out with the acetone, but I filtered and evapped the tone anyway. LO and BEHOLD---> a very clear, oily residue was left over when the tone had evapped.  I treated with warm water and titrated citric acid xstals. After the water evaporated, a sticky substance was left over.

This substance was very bitter, stayed sort of sticky no matter how much I tried to dry it. But bioassay was positive and opiate like effects were noticed. It was a very clean feeling, similar to methadone (onset, duration, and effects), but oral admin just doesn't do it justice. intranasal or iv will be tried when end product is pure enough or I can powder it.

Jon, I see promising results from this but I can't get that citrate to solidify properly so I can snort it. how do you overcome this?