Author Topic: Short Questions Thread (Read 10820 times)

lugh · « **Reply #980 on:** August 15, 2011, 05:52:49 PM »

Quote

Another, more important question- Depending on where you look, ie rhodium versus wikipedia versus where ever, the structure of MDA is different. Sometimes the amine portion is on the very end of the chain while other times there is a methyl on the end and the amine part is between that and the rest of the chain. Is it that it makes no difference, or is one wrong? It seems to me that moving a group's position would affect it somehow. Maybe the fact that it's the position on the chain and not the ring that changes it doesn't matter as much? If that's the case then why the big difference between ketone and aldehyde? This is very confusing to me.

MDA/safrylamine is what is known as a secondary amine, thus there is an alkyl (in this case methyl) group attached to the alpha carbon:

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/nomenclature.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_carbon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC_nomenclature_of_organic_chemistry

You won't understand this matter until you study more, that much is clear

The end results from the effort applied

reDEEMed · « **Reply #981 on:** August 15, 2011, 08:10:31 PM »

Now there you go with that damn effort shit. Just tell me how to make xtc so I can be kewl 2 :^|

But, thanks for the links. I'll get someone to read them for me.

Sedit · « **Reply #982 on:** August 17, 2011, 07:12:16 PM »

Quote from: reDEEMed on August 15, 2011, 04:17:53 PM

Edit: Another, more important question- Depending on where you look, ie rhodium versus wikipedia versus where ever, the structure of MDA is different. Sometimes the amine portion is on the very end of the chain while other times there is a methyl on the end and the amine part is between that and the rest of the chain. Is it that it makes no difference, or is one wrong? It seems to me that moving a group's position would affect it somehow. Maybe the fact that it's the position on the chain and not the ring that changes it doesn't matter as much? If that's the case then why the big difference between ketone and aldehyde? This is very confusing to me.

There is something VERY important you obviously have not learned about organic chemistry yet. Even though the drawling of these molecules looks rigid they really rotate around the axis of each carbon and are never truly stable. This is the reason that many times rings are put in place to force a chain to hold a specific structure so that they can bind to a receptor in ONLY that was. Amphetamines have a few different analogs where there is a ring of some sort on the chain to stiffen it and make it shape better in the receptor. You can think of an alkyl chain to be similar to a floppy piece of rope with nodes in it at each carbon.

Both structures you have seen are correct and one in the same because this terminal carbon spins like a helicopter so to speak.

reDEEMed · « **Reply #983 on:** August 17, 2011, 07:39:55 PM »

That makes perfect sense. I fuckin' love analogy.

Sedit · « **Reply #984 on:** August 17, 2011, 08:35:47 PM »

The ability to form an analogy is the route of pure intelligence IMO. Any monkey can repeat what was in a book taught to them but it takes intelligence to come up with something on your own or link what is being learned with other already known things.

I would like some suggestions on the conversion of an amine to a Carbonyl moiety. I'm sure I will find many ways soon but I am all ears for anyone who wishes to share some ways off the top of there head. Also I would like to replace the Nitrogen of an Amide or the OH of a carboxylic acid with an alkyl function so that would be helpful as well.

reDEEMed · « **Reply #985 on:** August 17, 2011, 09:00:24 PM »

It just shows true understanding, rather than rote memorization.

reDEEMed · « **Reply #986 on:** August 18, 2011, 08:09:07 PM »

How do I begin researching how to selectively methylate portions of a molecule. Like say I wanted to know how one would make mdma from mda or add a 5-methyl to the ring? I'm not looking for a synthesis, I'm looking for a reference about the various reactions that would bring about these changes. I've googled every variation of those phrases I can think of and all I can find are specific synthesis write ups. I have been able to find that this general area of interest is something that the friedel-crafts alkylation may be capable of, but reading about it my text books I'm not sure if that's what I'm looking for.

Here, I even brought my own spoon

java · « **Reply #987 on:** August 18, 2011, 09:30:29 PM »

.....try searching for mono methylation of amines.....and use your spoon there....java

POSEIDON · « **Reply #988 on:** August 19, 2011, 12:00:28 AM »

hey reDEEMed look this book is the first clue in your path

http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,794.msg25408.html#msg25408

POSEIDON · « **Reply #989 on:** August 19, 2011, 12:01:48 AM »

sorry is this
http://127.0.0.1/talk/index.php/topic,794.msg25407.html#msg25407

reDEEMed · « **Reply #990 on:** August 19, 2011, 01:19:42 AM »

Yeah, that's a bad ass book.

dingbow · « **Reply #991 on:** August 19, 2011, 11:57:26 PM »

speaking of monomethylation, I have a quick question. When working out the molarity of the aluminium required, do I need to take into account the water in the formaldehyde solution consuming some of the activated aluminium? The molarity of the water is rather large relatively.

Wizard X · « **Reply #992 on:** August 20, 2011, 12:40:21 AM »

http://www.chembuddy.com/?left=all&right=download

Diffusion and fractal electrodeposition simulator
This small and completely free program simulates diffusion and electrodeposition of the substance. The idea was published in Journal of Chemical Education in 1989 - Sagues F, Costa JM, A microcomputer simulation of fractal electrodeposition, Journal of Chemical Education, 66 (6): 502-506 Jun 1989. You may play with the program just to amuse yourself, or you may use it as a tool in computer based lab.

And finally, http://www.webqc.org/balance.php to balance equations.

Oerlikon · « **Reply #993 on:** August 23, 2011, 10:56:48 PM »

If you have high quality sassafras oil that has previously determined concentration (96%+)
and some brownish crap (terpenes!?) can you use it "as it is" in p-benzo wacker reaction
and expect same yields?!

I know that (in theory) I can use it as safrole with molar coefficient of 0.96
but I don't know if those things that are 4% will harm reaction and further process (extraction,washing etc.) in any way.

It's pain in the ass,expensive and definitely not green to waste hectoliters of water for vacuum distillation
when all you have is water aspirator.

dingbow · « **Reply #994 on:** August 25, 2011, 11:21:52 AM »

Quote from: Oerlikon on August 23, 2011, 10:56:48 PM

It's pain in the ass,expensive and definitely not green to waste hectoliters of water for vacuum distillation
when all you have is water aspirator.

Build a water pump aspirator station

Its a better option imo, then what your proposing. Think about it, if you make one you can do distillations as often as want and only use up like 5L each time.

Oerlikon · « **Reply #995 on:** August 25, 2011, 10:16:57 PM »

I simply can't find good vacuum and/or water pump where I live and ebay won't send it.
Sure,I will get it one day but I need alternative now.

atara · « **Reply #996 on:** August 25, 2011, 10:50:06 PM »

Quote from: Sedit on August 17, 2011, 08:35:47 PM

I would like some suggestions on the conversion of an amine to a Carbonyl moiety. I'm sure I will find many ways soon but I am all ears for anyone who wishes to share some ways off the top of there head. Also I would like to replace the Nitrogen of an Amide or the OH of a carboxylic acid with an alkyl function so that would be helpful as well.

Alloxan performs the Strecker degradation with some reliability; I presume it could similarly effect this transformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloxan

The synthesis of alloxan is not totally simple but probably not as hard as it seems; you might be able to simply condense mesoxalic acid with urea. Typically barbituric acid is oxidised in some fashion, though the original preparation -- oxidizing uric acid with nitric acid -- is definitely the simplest. Uric acid is available as a supplement and nitric acid surely needs no introduction.

lugh · « **Reply #997 on:** August 26, 2011, 01:21:51 AM »

Quote

I simply can't find good vacuum and/or water pump where I live and ebay won't send it. Sure,I will get it one day but I need alternative now.

You say you need an immediate solution, but apparently there's no refrigeration technician supply houses or places where water pumps are sold where you live $:-\$ A lot of water pumps will work in building an aspirator station, one guide on clandestine laboratory construction projects that's mostly correct can bee downloaded from:

https://the-collective.ws/forum/index.php?topic=10095

and the particular section in question is depicted online at:

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/equipment/aspirator.html

The pump has to be mounted over the pail, Mr Nimble's bulk head gasket isn't likely to work out the way he claims

The designs by Noj and Polythene Sam both work rather well

You're not the first scientist to have to come up with a pumped water supply without the convenience of a friendly hardware store

One solution is find a centrifugal water pump from an old vehicle in a scrapyard

A fiber universal joint can be used to connect the shaft of the pump to an electric motor or one can use pulleys and a belt

A board can be used to mount the motor and the pump so it can be moved easily

Another option is to remove the water pump from an old washing machine, and use that as the water source for the aspirator station

Some web sites about vacuum technology:

http://www.belljar.net/

http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasercva.htm#cvatoc

Undoubtedly there are other solutions to your problem that could be posted

One of our more knowledgeable members posted a thread hoping to end these particular questions:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14435

and there's another thread there that you should study carefully:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=437

The end results from the effort applied

Terror · « **Reply #998 on:** August 29, 2011, 06:37:05 AM »

Can anyone tell me how many mls 178g safrole equates to, roughly is okay.. also, why does the mm benzo synth call for 178g saf when a mol of saf is 160ish?

Sedit · « **Reply #999 on:** August 29, 2011, 07:04:45 AM »

I can tell you something more useful the the direct answer to your question.

To figure out the ml work the mass(g) * density

Learning the mathematics is much more important to learning the reactions.

Author Topic: Short Questions Thread (Read 10820 times)

lugh

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reDEEMed

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Sedit

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reDEEMed

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Sedit

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java

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dingbow

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Wizard X

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atara

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lugh

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