HCl gas generator

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Hahas' point is more that he uses aequous sulfuric and thus doesn't need to wet doen the NaCl in the beginning, I guess - right?

By using aequ.HCl dripped into conc.H2SO4, it is possible to tell exactly how much HCl gas is generated, since you are mixing the two acids continuously. Therefore wetting the NaCl when dripping H2SO4 onto it (which is a viable method for producing HCl, as well as HCl(l)/H2SO4 is) is not only a cosmetic correction but rather to enable at least SOME stirring until part of the acid has been added.

Because this is the major problem: you cannot really stir a solid effectively with a mag.stirrer, so the H2SO4 does not produce even amounts of HCl all the time.....

And it has not got to do anything with doing acid/base extractions of amines, more with stronger acids replacing weaker acids in their salts....

hahas · Fri May 27, 2005 11:56 pm

no. the apparatus is based on the one these researchers made (EDIT note: page 17 in the PDF, indole_amine), posted at the Hive and/or Rhodium some time ago:

http://www.ecy.wa.gov/biblio/98255.html

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

What do you mean by "no"? The cosmetical correction issue or the 85% aequous sulfuric isssue? Confused

Which one of the several dozen shitty and/or dangerous HCl gas generators included in the pig document you linked to did you mean, btw? Question

(I know the text you reference too, it just contains loads of info of HOW DANGEROUS HCl gas generators can be to cops who are seizing clandestine lab sites and looking for evidence.......)

So which one was your example, again? The one with the rusty improvised metal hose takeoff welded to a propane gas cylinder? Mr. Green

Serious: the document you linked to has got nothing to do with rhodium and/or the hive and is the worst example for how not to do it I've ever seen.

And that was the authors intention when writing that 39-page article about the dangers associated with "clandestine HCl gas generators"......

Strangely HCl gas generators are by no way dangerous if proper glassware or other non-corrosive material is used, and further this apparatus shown in the picture above is the way its described for example in Vogel's (and Zubrick too I believe)....

i_a

hahas · Sat May 28, 2005 11:44 am

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Now back to the topic: you said "the part where you talked about stirring and pressure as this is not an issue in this case."

I didn't talk about uneven stirring causing pressure (positive or negative-> too much HCl or suckback), I did merely talk about the amnt. of HCl being not the same all the time. Which can cause uneven pressure if you use thin tubing....

If you mix a solid and a liquid inefficiently, they will not react in an even way, and I'm eager to hear your explanation about why this should be not the case if you drip sulfuric acid onto solid NaCl, without prewetting anything.(?)

Especially since, according to your own words, it has got nothing to do at all with the 25% water content of your sulfuric, as you pointed out by denying my initial assumption.. (or am I wrong here maybee? Wink

)

indole_amine

hahas · Sat May 28, 2005 1:00 pm

The acid is not dripped on the sulfuric, they are mixed and the salt forms HCl as it dissolves in the acid. as the gas is contained until it is released, any difference in rate is moot.

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

And just btw I have successfully produced hundreds of moles of HCl without any pressure - so the 75psi thingie is fallacious.
Thats what I wanted to tell you all the time: the document you linked to is designed to show HOW DANGEROUS HCl gas generators can be if done wrong, and to prove it they made a dangerous HCl gas generator device on their won and tested it.

Look into any practical org.chem textbook, and you'll see what I mean.

And now please calm down, peace up your mind, and re-post as soon as you happen to have something businesslike to discuss. You're welcome at every time.

As long as you stay polite and keep it to the topic.

i_a

hAzzBEEn · Tue May 31, 2005 6:24 pm

SWIM never used any type of pressurized system for HCl generation; this would be silly. SWIM has also (successfully) produced many moles of HCl gas for fun. SWIM has used all of the methods mentioned with success. Speaking from experience is usually the most help on message boards.

Dropping some sulfuric acid on salt works great for making dry HCl gas, but SWIM has only done this a few times.

SWIM's favorite method is using a syringe or dropping funnel with aq. HCl and dripping it into concentrated sulfuric acid and bubbling that through more concentrated sulfuric acid. SWIM always used a trap -- it is easy to put a trap in line and can save the day. This produces anhydrous HCl, quite easily. Yes, stirring is nice, but before SWIM had a magnetic stirrer, he/she would just shake the bottle/flask until no more gas evolved. It would suck if a bottle with sulfuric exploded all over the room.

SWIM has even used a plastic bottle (hole in lid with tubing coming out) with aq. HCl in it, and tossed little balls of aluminum foil into it and put the lid (with tubing) on, quickly. This was only done in a pinch.

The last method is not recommended. It only works with a fat drying tube or by only blowing the HCl across the top of the nonpolar, which is dangerous and unhealthy unless doing it outside. Some people just like breathing HCl fumes, I guess.

hahas · Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:16 am

java · Consumer

On a side note TSII is archived in our Reference section under "e-books available top download".....sorry for the intrussion on the topic........java