Al/Hg Nitro Synth regarding flask size ???

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Not surprising - Al foil HAS to be food grade, since it is used for wrapping eatable things....

Mine doesn't make this black precipitate; maybe I should send you a few hundred rolls of my supermarket foil (0.49 cent/30m)...

It has written on the packaging the following words:

"IMPORTANT:
Don't use aluminium foil for covering moist, acid- or salt containing food on metal dishes or plates. Foil can dissolve due to local element formation. Don't use aluminium foils together with food containing much acid and/or salts! Aluminium contents released into food are not harmful at all."

Sounds like no Si to me.... Wink

i_a

brain · Linguist Extraordinaire

hm Al cause eizhaimer desise? Al-salts, storing in brain...

-hm, in poland lab grade foil is not aviable, Im'using what's cheaper Smile

but eweryfoil in polan (?) contain Si ;/ .. but it dont kill the yelds

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

brain · Linguist Extraordinaire

hm, i find information that : "dont use Al bakers to make jam, because it is acidic, will make Al salts, whih are storing in brain-makeing after long time eizheimer desise" something like that.... hmmm on some british, than polish sites

nyarlothotep · Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:46 am

here's a decent (perhaps a tad biased) overview of the possibilities of Al being involved in several serious disorders.

http://www.healpain.net/articles/fmcfs2.html

A few cited studies that should point back to what does exist.
thing is, Alzheimers patients have substantially greater than normal Al deposits in their brains. It isn't clear as to wether or not this is a cause or an effect of the degeneration, but with a rapid increase of Alzheimers patients and a serious explosion of Al usage (drink cans, storage items, anti-perspirants, etc) it's pretty serious circumstantial evidence.

That and the fact that it's been ~50 years or so since Al became widespread, and the time it takes for the disease to be expressed.......
Nothings clear, but SWIN wouldn't drink or eat anything that had been in close contact with Al, especially if that item was acidic. Free aluminum particles are not what he wants running around inside him, and if you look at Al used in this reaction (and several others) you'd be a bit leary too.
Maybe he should run down the articles and make a Health post.....

bio · Working Bee

Been having trouble finding a good wire or sheet Al .2-.3mm as when tested it leaves the black residue. What's the best way to test Al? other than an amalgamation which is what I've been doing in MeOH. Would weighing the residue after dissolving in 5% NaOH be acceptable or is HCl better. Some wire I've tried starts good then the black spots appear and the amalgamation fizzles out.

Everything you ever wanted to know about aluminum is here
http://www.aluminum.org/template.cfm?Section=Aluminum_Association

This is some stuff I compiled to use in the quest for the good shit.
Maybe bio deserves some bonus points for this! Shocked

Eat more Al it's brain food, but please only 99% or better.

......................................
The 1xxx series represents the commercially pure aluminum, ranging from the
baseline 1100 (99.00% min. Al) to relatively purer 1050/1350 (99.50% min. Al)
and 1175 (99.75 % min. Al).Some,like 1350 which is used especially for
electrical applications,have relatively tight controls on those impurities that
might lower electrical conductivity.

Subcategory: 1000 Series Aluminum; Aluminum Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal
Close Analogs:

Composition Notes:
The aluminum content for unalloyed aluminum not made by a refining process is the difference between 100.00 percent and the sum of all other analyzed metallic elements present in amounts of 0.010 percent of more each, expressed to the second decimal before determining the sum. For alloys and unalloyed aluminum not made by a refining process, when the specified maximum limit is 0.XX, an observed value or a calculated value greater than 0.005 but less than 0.010% is rounded off and shown as " less than 0.01%".
Composition information provided by the Aluminum Association and is not for design.

Key Words: Aluminium 1110; AA1110
Component Wt. %
Al Min 99.1
B Max 0.02
Cr Max 0.01
Cu Max 0.04

Component Wt. %
Fe Max 0.8
Mg Max 0.25
Mn Max 0.01

Component Wt. %
Other, each Max 0.03
Si Max 0.3
V+Ti Min 0.03

Subcategory: 1000 Series Aluminum; Aluminum Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal
Close Analogs:

Composition Notes:
0.0008% max Be for welding electrode and filler wire only.
The aluminum content for unalloyed aluminum not made by a refining process is the difference between 100.00 percent and the sum of all other analyzed metallic elements present in amounts of 0.010 percent of more each, expressed to the second decimal before determining the sum. For alloys and unalloyed aluminum not made by a refining process, when the specified maximum limit is 0.XX, an observed value or a calculated value greater than 0.005 but less than 0.010% is rounded off and shown as " less than 0.01%".
Composition information provided by the Aluminum Association and is not for design.

Key Words: Aluminium 1188; AA1188
Component Wt. %
Al Min 99.88
Cu Max 0.005
Fe Max 0.06
Ga Max 0.03

Component Wt. %
Mg Max 0.01
Mn Max 0.01
Other, each Max 0.01
Si Max 0.06

Component Wt. %
Ti Max 0.01
V Max 0.05
Zn Max 0.03

I350 H19 SOLID
Construction
Conductors are aluminum alloy 1350-H19, 6201-T81, or ACSR conductors, concentrically stranded and covered for weather proofing with polyethylene, high-density polyethylene (HID) or crosslinked polyethylene (XLP).

Application
Covered Line Wire is used primarily for overhead secondary distribution lines. It is not an electrically insulated conductor and is treated as bare conductor when installed.

Type XHHW
Building Wire - Aluminum Conductor - Type XHHW

Construction
Compact stranded 8000 Series aluminum alloy conductor, black abrasion, heat and moisture resistant crosslinked polyethylene insulation.

Application
Type XHHW is intended for use as general purpose wiring in air, conduit or other recognized raceways for services, feeders and branch circuit wiring as specified in the National Electric Code at a maximum conductor temperature of 90°C in dry locations and 75°C in wet locations.
Subcategory: 1000 Series Aluminum; Aluminum Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal
The 8xxx series is used for those alloys with lesser used alloying elements such
as Fe,Ni and Li.Each is used for the particular characteristics it provides the
alloys: Fe and Ni provide strength with little loss in electrical conductivity and so
are used in a series of alloys represented by 8017 for conductors.Li in alloy 8090
provides exceptionally high strength and modulus, and so this alloy is used for
aerospace applications where increases in stiffness combined with high strength
reduces component

Key Words: Aluminium 8017-H12; AA8017-H12
Component Wt. %
Al Max 98.6
B Max 0.04
Cu 0.1 - 0.2
Fe 0.55 - 0.8

Component Wt. %
Li Max 0.003
Mg 0.01 - 0.05
Other, each Max 0.03

Component Wt. %
Other, total Max 0.1
Si Max 0.1
Zn Max 0.05
Close Analogs:

Composition Notes:
The aluminum content for unalloyed aluminum not made by a refining process is the difference between 100.00 percent and the sum of all other analyzed metallic elements present in amounts of 0.010 percent of more each, expressed to the second decimal before determining the sum. For alloys and unalloyed aluminum not made by a refining process, when the specified maximum limit is 0.XX, an observed value or a calculated value greater than 0.005 but less than 0.010% is rounded off and shown as " less than 0.01%".
Composition information provided by the Aluminum Association and is not for design.

Key Words: Aluminium 1350-H19; Electrical Conductor Grade (EC); UNS A91350; NF A5/L (France); AA1350-H19, BS1E (UK); DIN E-Al99.5
Component Wt. %
Al Min 99.5
B Max 0.05
Cr Max 0.01
Cu Max 0.05

Component Wt. %
Fe Max 0.4
Ga Max 0.03
Mn Max 0.01
Other, each Max 0.03

Component Wt. %
Other, total Max 0.1
Si Max 0.1
V+Ti Min 0.02
Zn Max 0.05

Universal Wire Works Alloy 1100 (AMS 4180) Aluminum Alloy Filler Metal
Subcategory: 1000 Series Aluminum; Aluminum Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal
Component Wt. %
Al 99.9
Cu Max 0.02
Mn 0.05
Si+Fe Max 0.02
Zn 0.1

Material Notes:
Alloy 1100 is virtually pure aluminum designed to weld grades 1100 and 3003 aluminum sheets, plates, bars, e

Subcategory: 6000 Series Aluminum Alloy; Aluminum Alloy; Metal; Nonferrous Metal
Close Analogs:

Composition Notes:
Aluminum content reported is calculated as remainder.
Composition information provided by the Aluminum Association and is not for design.
panels with high dent resistance; and 6101and 6201 for high strength electrical
bus and electrical conductor wire, respectively.

Key Words: UNS A96201; Aluminium 6201-T81; AA6201-T81
Component Wt. %
Al 97.3 - 98.9
B Max 0.06
Cr Max 0.03
Cu Max 0.1

Component Wt. %
Fe Max 0.5
Mg 0.6 - 0.9
Mn Max 0.03
Other, each Max 0.03

Component Wt. %
Other, total Max 0.1
Si 0.5 - 0.9
Zn Max 0.1

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Frightening.

Java or anyone, could you move this post about Al salts and alzheimers disease to the "Health concerns" forum? I think it belongs there (and PLEASE leave a link to it in this thread, since DJTime's purposes would be defeated otherwise, or so I've heard.. Wink

)

thx

i_a

DjTime · Chemical Dj

That kinda defeats the purpose of me asking the question. The thread has evoloved into this. I think in the future this thread would be much better here. No one will look for this kind of information in the "health" section. Just my opinion. Peace Out...

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

Ease up DJ..
I did just mean nyalothoteps single post about the Al salts probably causing alzheimers disease through accumulation in brain tissue.

I didn't mean the whole thread, Al/Hg nitro reduction flaks size questions are best located in the phenethylamines section of course! Pacified now?

Oh, and before the next misapprehension happens:

Bio, when I said "frightening", I didn't mean your excellent post about the various Al impurity contents - of course I did mean all those thousands of alzheimer patients lurking around the streets in a few years...

Very Happy

..now that we have that out of the way: back to the topic guys! How tweak MM's nitro Al/Hg to fit a 5l flask when scaled up?

Al wire is a trusted method to slow down things (provided it doesn't slow down too much because of impurities Wink

), cut-up tart recipier Al another option, Al sheets used in professional vacuum-sealing machines a third one.

Others? (the classical "Al turning" maybe, anyone experience with this?)

nubee · Master Archiver

that's why alum/alloy cooking pots are no good for cooking...

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

I will never again use one, promised...

Back to the topic: Al/Hg nitro reduction flask size.....

bio · Working Bee

.
..........How tweak MM's nitro Al/Hg to fit a 5l flask when scaled up?...............

Take another look at my post on the 6liter which has given excellent results. The only thing I would add is that Reynolds EXTRA Heavy Duty foil is used in 3-4 layers ground a bit tight in pieces that just fit the 24mm neck. Also the small bits are strained out which is maybe a third. For half mole reactions less Al is also used which improves the stirring and a 6 hour reflux after it slows down. The soup will boil vigorously on it;s own for over an hour. What I would do if buying another flask is stay w/ the flat bottom, use a 45/50 neck and a double surface condensor with
about 900 cm2 surface area if glass or half of this in metal.

...........Al wire is a trusted method to slow down things (provided it doesn't slow down too much because of impurities Wink ), cut-up tart recipier Al another option, Al sheets used in professional vacuum-sealing machines a third one...................

The data I posted on alloys was from trying to find which alloy was in the electrical wire I was testing and sure enough the XHHW etc is the wrong alloy which I found out testing it prevoius. Welding wire is probably the safest bet (see the alloy comp.) and it even comes sealed w/ dessicant. It's high priced however compared to elec wire.

I tried Reynolds HD broiler pans and they didn't fully amalgamate. Unfortunately I didn't test it first and yield dropped big time (over 40%) Mad

Now, what's the best way to test?? other than amalgamating a few grams. I've wasted a lot of HgCl2 this way. After about 10 different tests still I haven't found the good stuff in the .2-.3mm range. Better just break down and buy the welding wire, I quess.

DJtime; somebody told me long ago a similar story to yours with failures and it turned out that the brand of foil he had always used had changed in composition!!
I forget how he determined this right now but it certainly ain't gonna be on the box.

sg43 · Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:45 pm

SWIM wonders if a 3L 3neck flask would be appropiate for using the original scale of the al/hg nitro reaction?

thenewrunne · Chemically Balanced

Regarding Aluminum foil and it's impurties.

SWIM has experience with this problem. The best way to determine the foil quality is to do an amalgamation with just the Al/Hg/MeOH. Let it go to completion and see if there is any foil left.

Alcan foil the "Stronger and More Flexible" = strength and flexibility is due to impurities. When this foil was used the foil would be eaten by holes in the foil, not by the whole foil going gray and then powdering up the bottom of the flask. If the flask was left for days, the foil would still be there, 50% unchanged.

My thinking is that the other metal ions in the foil is poisoning the mercury catalyst, correct?

IndoleAmine · Dreamreader Deluxe

sg43: if you leave all other parameters unchanged, it will most likely work.

thenewrunne: the drong&flexible brands contain some plastic polymer support (urgh!) and are not very good for Al/Hg... Laughing

So far: yes, the "impurities" ar responsible for the incomplete amalgamation...

i_a