Peak Oil

Lief · Tue May 31, 2005 2:47 am

Coal is the most abundent fossil fuel in the world. Also, look what they're doing with natural gas: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7815172/

loki · guinea pig

Fuel cell technology will go a long way to helping allieviate the problem too, since it allows one to store much larger density of power than conventional batteries.

imho, the energy problem is just a lack of vision. everywhere, all around us, is some kind of force which makes everything fall to the ground. It is only because this force is radial and not linear that people have not figured out how to use it. there is a growing interest and activity in the field of discovering ways to subvert the omnidirectional nature of gravity and make it push something in only one direction, it is my opinion that gravity power is where all zero points ultimately come from... i mean, even stars, although they are limited by how long their supply of hydrogen continues, are ultimately powered by gravity, and the shape they take utilises the compressive force it creates to cause fusion.

The only real and lasting answer to the energy problem will be devices which convert gravity flux into a form we can use. And the reason why all this fuss is being made about oil is that, just like the stars, one can only exploit the chemical reactions that dominate equilibrium of a system for so long, before you have nothing left on one side of the equation, and most of these people who own the current sources of these chemical energy sources would not be able to accept a source of energy that is omnipresent and virtually limitless for practical uses - where is the money in it for them. They got to the top of the shit heap by turning shit into gold - the cost to profit ratio of oil makes drug profits look paltry. it costs about $40 for a barrel of oil, and only costs about $2 to actually produce it. mind you i am only estimating here. But these people are not willingly going to let go of their exclusive control of energy supply, but in the end, some day in the not too distant future, someone is going to finally crack the gravity-->electricity equation and the information will distribute very much faster than they can control it.

It is my opinion that the stumbling block for this revolution in energy is the lack of a proper understanding of the mechanism of gravity. Once the right idea pops into someone's head, and is thus proven in practise, a real, working, reproducible and cheap to manufacture energy production device will be everywhere before they can do anything about it.

The interesting thing about it all is, what happens to money then? If energy is the only stumbling block in high value chemical processes, then suddenly, for a start, water and carbon dioxide would be able to be converted back into oil. but take the conclusion a little further - if energy is the underpinning of money, then what happens with money? If you can produce a gigawatt generator of this type, you can make any atomic substance you want via fusion. You can synthesise liquid fuels, you can power massive undeground plant growing projects, or use land like tundra or antarctic land to grow plants. You can travel anywhere and the only cost is maintaining the vehicle and the generator.

zub · Tue May 31, 2005 7:20 pm

what worries me about exotic energy sources, should we ever harness them effectively, is that there will be exotic costs that haven't occurred to us yet, and that corporations will extort consumers as ruthlessly as they have with fossil fuels.

even as i write, corporations are attempting, and even suceeding, at privatizing water rights.
a gravity generator, should it be invented, would possibly alter the orbit of the planet or slow its rotation.
eventually, humans ought to be clever enough to thrive on the incoming solar radiation.
not today, that's for sure. we haven't even agreed on a cap to population, or even the need for one, much less how to implement a sustainable civilization.
limitless free energy, at this point, would only make us more stupid...because we don't know what to do with the energy, except to mimic what has been done.

loki · guinea pig

i think that the stupidity is not present in 100% of humans, probably more like 90%... what better way to sort out the sheep from the goats Wink

I think that the gravity-->electricity devices will not have significant problems in altering the orbit of the planet if they are only implemented at a certain size per amount of surface, i mean how much energy does any one thing need anyway... And besides this, it is not neccessarily going to alter gravity flux enough to cause that sort of problem, no more than building a skyscraper or a mountain rising up out of the ground from new volcanic activity. The mass of the earth is enormous, I don't think that humans could manage to distort gravity for energy tapping processes even if the entire land mass was covered in humans distributed 1 to every 50 square metres.

not to say that such things could not be done if gravity were mastered, but then, if people can use it for propulsion the earth's surface is no longer the only place we can go. The big limit to space travel for us is breaking free of the earth's gravity. If idiots go about sending us on a spiral inwards towards the sun then it's not the end, one can always correct it, or just leave... I think that to a certain extent, the unhooking of energy and money will initially be very disruptive, but it might just accelerate the rate of mutual destruction of those inclined towards it, while at the same time giving those with sanity a way to stand fully clear of the idiocy. And once humans get used to having no limit to their ability to do things other than knowing the way of doing it... i mean, what incentive for the power hungry remains other than mass destruction. These folks should be put in padded rooms anyway, and it would be much easier to do so if they weren't in exclusive control of the greater proportion of energy resources.

zub · Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:27 am

trouble is, the present situation favors the lowest common denominator.
arrogance and greed make for piss-poor science. our kindergarten attempts at leaving the planet have punched holes in the ozone and left 50,000+ units of potentially lethal garbage in orbit...an amazing pain in the ass for future space exploration.

perhaps i'm a luddite, but i suspect that we need to starve before we get smart.
if cheap fusion rxns became commonplace on the planet today, for instance, the nearly free power would likely afford us cheaper wars and more absurd humvee-like vehicles, and a more effective police state.

its a pity that we're essentially programmed to believe that extreme conservation measures equals extreme sacrifice.

i see it exactly opposite.

its this energy glut that has forced us all to sacrifice almost everything that was once worthwhile.

we sacrificed the freedom to swim in clean water for the freedom to sit in traffic jams on our way to a job we hate that will furthar degrade our children's future well being.

the american way of life sucks ass.
is it legal to say this?

how much suckier does it have to get before we are able to reject it for the sham freedom that it suggests?

americans are almost the least free humans on the planet, yet they are told to remain righteous about it, and spread it to all the un-free slobs.
this is normally accomplished with really good weapons, and children, unfortunately, are the majority of what we deem essential to kill, to extend the grip of freedom to the entire earth.

to paraphrase einstein, you can't fix a problem from within the mindset that created it.

personal revolution, anyone?

loki · guinea pig

well, that's my point, free energy does not solve the problem, it lets it get to the point of the ridiculous, and when things get to that point solutions naturally appear due to dire need. but in any case, being able to leave the planet with a free-energy/gravity propulsion device means that there's a lot of places to sit out the time while idiocy gets to the point of the ridiculous. not just off planet, there is many high altitude remote places, and the deep water is another option.

As you clearly understand and articulate, nothing much is gonna stop the stupidity in any case. the best way to empty the cup is to flood it so violently that it falls over. If we try to do this slow like it's just putting off the inevitable catastrophe that idiocy demands. let's just get it over with! free energy for all, thow the dice and let the chips fall where they may. It's inevitable. I prefer the free energy option because at least it gives those of us not so idiotic the option of settling spaces that were previously difficult without abundant energy sources.

scarmani · Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:31 am

zib! it's great to see you online again.

i agree with what you say... the technical aspects of the energy problem are fundamentally secondary to the problem of our psychic priorities. it's always good to be reminded of that Wink

zub · Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:02 am

me too, my friend...very glad to relate to you, in spite of a total lack of molecular connection.

you exist , to me, as an entity that defies gravity.

i am able to 'relate' with you, and you don't even need to drive here.

we are relating on a sub-atomic level.
we have tapped into the quantum expression of reality.

i feel as though i know you; stranger yet, i have legitimate affection toward you and wish you well, in the most standard ways.

but you don't really exist.
do you?

more significant, does it really matter?

one of the things i like about you is that you never leave dirty dishes in my sink.

my relationship with you is extraordinarily energy efficient.

hopefully, the metaphor has relevance to others.

reality has at least two possible expressions, according to high science:

the sub-atomic reality; the one that serves as the precursor to atomic and molecular reality, runs by a different set of rules.
so upsetting to the newtonian gang, but so what.

why unify fields that seem happy enough to be seperate?

nevertheless, i'm compelled to do just that...unify fields.

wanna here some spooky b.s.?

truth is love, until someone convinces me otherwise.

(zib out)