Citrate by far blows everything out of the water the onset is fast and the way it works in the brain is throw slow moves throw the synapse, and longer effects on the body, If you think HCL is the way try a citrate,,,

Think viagra....

Your right is no by accident, many times though its done because the stability of the mineral acid isn't up to par. Still there are some substances where the bioavalibility is greater when its in the form of an organic salt. MDA just happens to be one of those substances.

AMP sulfate is one that is done not because of boavalibility but because is HCl salt is hydroscopic and hard to crystalize. This is the reason various salts are used for the most part.

Also

"Citrate by far blows everything out of the water the onset is fast and the way it works in the brain is throw slow moves throw the synapse, and longer effects on the body, If you think HCL is the way try a citrate,,,"
"

As jon noted its action is SLOWER then that of a mineral acid salt as is confirmed thu laboratory testing. It is converted in the intestens to the base so exactly what does this have to do with the synapses when the metabolysm takes place well before it gets there? Can we please less hearsay and more first hand experiance please.

Im not saying its hearsay that the citrate is more potent thats fact proven in medical documentation. Its mode of action is what I was drawing into question. The citrate increases bioavaliblity due to the means of which it is metabolized. I have high doubts it is still the citrate when it reaches the brain at all for a couple reasons. In the lowerintestense substances get converted to there base and on top of that the citrate would be to large to cross the BBB. Its potantacy is related to the fact that it undergoes a slower metabolism hence the longer onset one top of what im sure are some other pharmological effects I haven't forseen.

a lot of pharms are citrates fumarates etc. not by accident.
fentanyl citrate comes to mind enhanced bioavailability.

Citrates have proven themselves as being lipid friendly so this allows them to have greater effect from faster absorption.

I would think stomach acid would also play a big roll -- but I guess if you were already in the flight or fight response there may be little to no acid in the stomach to interact.

supposedly the more alkaline your stomach is the faster the onset and the slower the excretion IIRC

I would think stomach acid would also play a big roll -- but I guess if you were already in the flight or fight response there may be little to no acid in the stomach to interact.

Good question.

This makes me wonder how insufflation of the citrate might differ from the HCl, in terms of absorption and bioavailability, both total and time dependent.

well the slow onset could very well be explained by it's lipophilicity then.
it may be distributed in peripheral tissues then released gradually.
funny thing one day i sent this guy 10 300 mg mdma citrate bombs just to try out and this knucklehead had the gall to call and complain he was'nt getting off after eating 5 of those  the funny part was,his tone of voice  softened as he finished his message.
i never talked to the assclown again.

everyone, these days.
i think even better than methbombs would be 4-mar and ecstacy.
mdma and mda mixed together works well for the complainers they even complain about that, some of them like mcpp and tmfpp over mdma.
if you want to make money don't bother making real drugs anymore.
just how it is.
and if it is'nt a pretty pressed pill they don't want it because it might be anything whereas pressed pills are made by people of the utmost integrety who adhere to the highest purity standards (yeah right)

"and if it is'nt a pretty pressed pill they don't want it because it might be anything whereas pressed pills are made by people of the utmost integrety who adhere to the highest purity standards (yeah right)"  sad but true Lol

How about an overview of how to convert a small amount (say 500 mg) of MDMA.HCl to the citrate?

My guess is that one would dissolve it in a basic solution, then extract the basic solution with a NP solvent, then extract the NP with a solution of citric acid, then evap the citric acid/MDMA solution? Hell, wait a minute, no need for that last part, you could just divide the citrate solution and just toss back the dose in some juice, no reason to bring it back to dry salt... am I right?

No wait... there'd be traces of NP still in the solution, that's why it should be dried to the salt eh?