Author Topic: Short Questions Thread  (Read 10820 times)

heisenberg

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #260 on: October 14, 2009, 08:20:28 PM »
I just had to replace my damn computer. I've now officially switched over to macs. Does anyone know any good open source IM encryption or SSH tunneling programs?
I spent all my money on booze and hookers, the rest I wasted - Charles Bukowski

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #261 on: October 15, 2009, 04:03:35 AM »
Does anyone have any references or suggestions on the use of Glycine in an SN2 reactions? Im woundering about substituting bromoalkanes with glycine and how that would proceed.
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Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #262 on: October 15, 2009, 04:12:22 AM »
Some guy on Wetdreams made the claim of one pot phenylacetic acid via phenylalanine+chlorine source(TCCA, NaOCl ect.)+acetone=phenylacetic acid. Unfortunately he didn't cite anything. So I'm assuming the first step is phenylalanine with chlorine source to make benzyl cyanide.
Example?
Phenylalanine+Sodium hypochlorite=Benzyl cyanide+Water+Formaldehyde+Sodium hypochlorite - C9H11NO2+NaOCl---->C8H7N+NaOCl+CH2O+H2O?

HERE IS MY PROBLEM
Then benzyl cyanide with acetone=Phenylacetic acid+???
This is where he lost me. I'm gonna go on a limb here and say no to that. Any ideas?

Other then Please Check My Chemistry here is my actual question - Typo? Did he mean phenylacetone? It fits in there rather nicely.

Benzyl cyanide(Phenylacetonitrile)+Acetone=Phenylacetone+Acetonitrile - C8H7N+C3H6O---->C9H10O+C2H3N

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #263 on: October 15, 2009, 04:17:26 AM »
Benzyl cyanide undergoes acid hydrolysis to yeild phenylacetic acid. Other then that Im a bit lost.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
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German

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #264 on: October 16, 2009, 09:12:36 PM »
Boiling point for MDA freebase oil? (or if not that MDMA freebase)

And does anyone know if the freebase oil would get destroyed at it's boiling point? I've heard it can be sensitive to heat.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 10:50:16 PM by German »

Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #265 on: October 20, 2009, 12:25:06 AM »
I keep stumbling over sugar with lye to propionic acid.
My question being isn't table sugar mixed sugars or is it just sucrose?

Naf1

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #266 on: October 20, 2009, 03:14:23 AM »
@Happyman, your earlier question;

"Some guy on Wetdreams made the claim of one pot phenylacetic acid via phenylalanine+chlorine source(TCCA, NaOCl ect.)+acetone=phenylacetic acid."

OK Happy, NaOCl and chlorine sources are no good. Hypochlorite for example will react via Strecker degradation and produce phenylacetaldehyde (among other things), you could theoretically use a massive excess of hypochlorite and try to oxidize the aldehyde to a carboxylic acid with hypochlorite which may be possible? But you need TCCA for this to work to produce a nitrile. The paper is here (Thanks Java, the links from SM);

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/files.php?pid=69963&aid=1539

So no acetone or chlorine sources! The reaction would require phenylalanine NaOH and TCCA. After it was complete hydrolysis would have to be done acidifying the medium and heating vigorously for 3 to 4 hours at probably 100*C+ .

"I keep stumbling over sugar with lye to propionic acid.
My question being isn't table sugar mixed sugars or is it just sucrose?"

Pardon me, Could you elaborate further please?

Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #267 on: October 20, 2009, 04:22:35 AM »
I could but once again I am citing "some guy on Wetdreams". Apparently sucrose decomposes into propionic acid which I am going to guess the idea came from. Tried to find a balance equation. Everything I came up with is sort of a stretch. I don't know about breaking down those rings with lye but what do I know.
Most reasonable one I came up with is sugar and lye giving you propionic acid, sodium bicarbonate and formic acid.
2C12H22O11+2NaOH--->7C3H6O2+2NaHCO3+CH2O4
I'll try some more. Idea came from these guys but there isn't much information there.
http://www.wetdreams.ws/forums/smf/index.php?topic=3688.0

Goldmember

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #268 on: October 20, 2009, 09:23:20 AM »
"OK Happy, NaOCl and chlorine sources are no good. Hypochlorite for example will react via Strecker degradation and produce phenylacetaldehyde (among other things), you could theoretically use a massive excess of hypochlorite and try to oxidize the aldehyde to a carboxylic acid with hypochlorite which may be possible? But you need TCCA for this to work to produce a nitrile"

Wouldnt often disagree with you Naf but 2x molar of HOCL excess,and lower ph is all that is needed to form the nitrile.

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:IOyvYlmAUd4J:profiles.nlm.nih.gov/BB/A/B/L/S/_/bbabls.pd
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=akmybqSScjwC&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq#v=onepage&q=&f=false <-References Ive lost sorry.

Ill post more,and better refs when I sort out my HD.

Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #269 on: October 22, 2009, 04:05:09 AM »
Ah, its one of those learning weeks. Hydroxlation of phenylethylamine to phenylethanolamine - Any suggestions? How strong of an oxidizer do I need? Very first thought was C8H11N+NaOCl--->C8H11NO+NaCl but by that logic C8H11N+H2O2--->C8H11NO+H2O would work.

Happyman

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #270 on: October 26, 2009, 11:14:16 PM »
Looks like Back to Back Questions. Since I am getting fairly confident in reacting phenylethylamine with hydrogen peroxide to give phenylethanolamine I need to go get some phenylethylamine. Unfortunately it doesn't sell around here so I was thinking decarboxylation of phenylalanine to give phenylethylamine. To my question, will just heating it to release carbon dioxide work? C9H11NO2--->C8H11N+CO2

Enkidu

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #271 on: November 01, 2009, 12:44:09 AM »
Yes, but not very well

Vesp

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #272 on: November 01, 2009, 09:37:53 PM »
Gotta do it in a high BP solvent, with a ketone catalyst I do believe - check out the decarboxylation thread.. should explain it IIRC.
Bitcoin address: 1FVrHdXJBr6Z9uhtiQKy4g7c7yHtGKjyLy

Locked

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #273 on: November 06, 2009, 03:49:12 AM »
Looking at http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/cyanoborohydride.html

"To a rapidly stirred slurry of sodium borohydride (80.2g, 2.09 mol) in THF (1000mL) in a 2-L flask is added a solution of hydrogen cyanide in THF (294g containing 58.8g of hydrogen cyanide) at 25° C. Evolution of hydrogen occurs slowly during the addition. Following the addition, the reaction mixture is stirred for 1 h at 25° C and then heated at reflux until hydrogen evolution has ceased. Filtration followed by vacuum removal of THF gives white solid sodium cyanoborohydride; yield 120g (91%)."

Anyone see any problems with making sodium cyanoborohydride by hydrogen cyanide gassing the THF with the NaBH4 until it takes on 59g?

I mean besides the obvious dying part.

Sedit

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #274 on: November 06, 2009, 04:16:56 AM »
...........

Ug god...

Please do not for the life of you trust us to give you insite on how to use HCN. Im not saying we don't have a bunch of great members here that could school you, but dude when it comes to life or death do you really want our help? We cant work the defibulator when your almost dead so work this shit out on your own please and take even the greatest of our chemist with a grain of salt just out of general principle.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!

Locked

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #275 on: November 06, 2009, 04:43:37 AM »
If you think this is out of the danger league of some of the other things on this site and freely available on the internet, you are kidding yourself.

I did not state the obvious and super easy ways of generating HCN. I also didn't state the obvious safety precautions.

When is HCN more dangerous? When someone goes into the game knowing the dangers or when some kids follow a cook book and gas themselves in the workup of one of the sodium cyanoborohydride wonder cooks? Acid into what? Pretty bubbles...

...and cyanide is an o2 problem, so paddles aren't going to help shit on their own.

Locked

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #276 on: November 06, 2009, 05:03:56 AM »
Yeah,
It's hella-dangerous. Feral lab cat says no. The points are still valid, though. And it should work.

edit->I am not going to do this.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 05:05:39 AM by disposable stirbar »

jon

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #277 on: November 06, 2009, 06:04:42 AM »
and i thought sedit was off kilter for wanting to do a schmidt rxn with hydrazoic acid (kabloom!) but this takes the cake disposable stirbar, it's good advice to just leave some things alone.

*Does anyone have any references or suggestions on the use of Glycine in an SN2 reactions? Im woundering about substituting bromoalkanes with glycine and how that would proceed.*
it would'nt procedd for numerous reasons amine adjacent to electron withdrawing group, zwitterionic, lone pairs of nitrogen are protonated by said zwitterion, no go.
just bubble some methylamine into alcohol need advice as there are some details in the technique of obtaining concentrated solution 20+ % of methylamine in alcohol, pm me i'll give you the lowdown.

2bfrank jones or collins reagent will oxidize about anything, good for destroying evidence. swij just uses a good soaking in pool shock on glassware.

doucherman
*No no, freebase the MeNH3*HCl into MeNH2 gas.  Dry it, then bubble it into a solvent other than water.*
 drying it is problematic naoh likes to cake up and you wind up getting gassed choking your ass off and inventing new cursewords.
in practice you can drop naoh soln onto MeNH3HCl instead of the other way around whilst cooling the generation flask and little water will be given off, suckback trap is imperative.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 06:37:44 AM by jon »

Locked

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #278 on: November 06, 2009, 07:50:44 PM »
Actually, I think it is probably good to just leave sodium cyanoborohydride alone as well.

STAB is easily prepped from 1mol NaBH4: 3mol acetic acid. Easy to source, no attention. Reports to follow, maybe.

If you think my HCN generator is evil, wait till you get the guided tour of my 55gal anaerobic botulina reactor :)

jon

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Re: Short Questions Thread
« Reply #279 on: November 06, 2009, 08:13:51 PM »
the only bitch bout sodium triacetoxy borohydride is that water decomposes it so it can only run in dce and the shiff's base has to
be dried via  azetrpoic action,silica gel etc.
and other chlorinated solv. have been tried with less sucess so stick to convention.
i'm retarded and i know that.
nabh4 in half ton quantities has been known to arouse suspisions your mileage may vary.
they're onto the cold method awww shucks!
what's a chemist to do.
btw don't get that stuff on your skin.