Author Topic: Mutating Organisms. How?  (Read 477 times)

Naf1

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2010, 11:00:58 PM »
OCRed version of the Arcamone et al. paper.

I know it concerns C paspali, but I am sure it will come in handy.

Documents among other things the screening process used when trying to isolate lysergic producing strains. And offers a lot of good technical information.

Production of a new lysergic acid derivative in submerged culture by a strain of Claviceps paspali Stevens & Hall
BY F . ARCAMONE, E . B. CHAIN, F . R . S . , A. FERRETTI, A. MINGHETTI, P. PENNELLA, A. TONOLO AND LIDIA VERO
International Centre for Chemical Microbiology
Istituto Superiore di Sanita, Rome

« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 11:06:37 PM by Naf1 »

jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2010, 02:14:47 AM »
it's in the royal society of chemistry all i read was the abstract what would i know maybe i can pull the abstract since i nothing else to do.
i swear i saw it in an old merck entry.
i must have been on acid and misread that, you're sure right.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 03:13:10 AM by jon »

overunity33

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2010, 03:04:20 AM »
I thought I should make a thread about C. Paspali with some collected information.  Seems like it would be just as good to post it in here.

  Some real good information in the hyperlab posts on WD, needs better translation...  This fungus is very promising because even without optimization, it can produce LSA at a density of around 1g pure LSA per gallon of liquid medium.  That makes 1 gallon of C. Paspali culture as alkaloid dense as 1 kilo of HBWR seeds... interested yet?  Another interesting thing is that this fungus can be easily mutated and isolated to a form that will produce only LSA as opposed to the more complex alkaloids such as Ergometrine and Ergometrinine which are usually produced.  This "alkaloid-blocked" mutant is easy to identify and much safer to culture.  Sterilization of seed liquid cultures can be done fast and easy in quart jars in a domestic pressure cooker.  5-10 liters can be sterilzed in under an hour.  Once these cultures are colonized, 5 liters could be used to easily innoculate a 15 gallon fermenter.  The fermenter could include a heating element and PID controller to sterilize itself before innolcution.  Many things in this process can be tweaked and through various tricks yields can be doubled no problem.

/end organization

Mutant isolation process: A high producing C. Paspali culture should be attained via academic routes (Easy peazy - if you are working in academia pm me).  

There are a few methods posted on this thread but this is what I got from the above ref using UV.
Mycelium is cut from the culture and introduced to a sterile .9% NaCl solution in a tall, round, glass container with a stirbar and broken peices of glass.  It is stirred until the mycelium is broken into fragments then hit with UV light (300J/M^2) for long enough to kill most of the cells.  The mycelium is filtered and grown out across many sterile agar plates.  The target mutant strain colonies will be visually different, only the mutant colonies will produce "honeydew" droplets.  A few different "alkaloid-blocked" mutants are isolated and grown out on agar.  Sterile liquid culture is prepared and innoculated with the various strains.  Sterilized tubes from a highoutput filtered airpump and submerged into the liquid culture containers, filtered air exchange is made possible by a polyfill material filter.  Once these containers have fermented long enough a sample is taken from each and productivity is tested via the Van Urke reagent.  A qualitative test for ergo alkaloids might be good just to be on the safe side.


Once someone gets a stable mutant, send it to every crafty bee you can, YOU can end LSD prohibition.


When looking up info for making your 50 gallon LSA fermenter, look up Claviceps purpurea.  A lot more academic info about this one and growing conditions are similar.


Nutrient mixtures:
Many different nutrient mixtures in literature

Optimized for C. Paspali (from hyperlab russians)
                                                                                                  
150 g/l mannitol50 g/l peptone “Torlak” (Sabouraud dextrose agar ) in distilled water; pH was about 6.8 without regulation

Antibiotics can be added, if you can read through the hyperlab 'lsd from ergot' posts on WD there is good info in there.

Addition of sodium arsenate at levels between 1/50 - 1/20th the molar concentration of phosphate, 100% increase in yield - attached pdf
So to make it easy on you, boost phosphate to 2-5x normal levels, then add correct ratios of sodium arsenate



Starting culture:

Inoculation:

9 days later:

Under blacklight:





extraction.
Fermenter liquid is basified, large volume of non-polar is added and stirred.  Non-polar is removed and ran through a silica filled tube to catch alkaloids.  Tube is eluted and a small, concentrated volume of alkaloids remain.  I believe this method was mentioned in otto snows books.



This is a rouge draft of a new post I was going to make... let me know what you guys think, open to criticism.  


P.S. Jon: you mention adding diethylamine to the brew to produce LSD insitu, was this a misunderstanding? If not we need to go to any lengths to get that reference.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 03:11:38 AM by overunity33 »

Naf1

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2010, 03:40:59 AM »
Nice, you mentioned Hyperlab. But is that your bio-reactor? NICE!

Tsathoggua

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2010, 03:51:45 AM »
Overunity...rings a bell, not jemma jamerson from the old hive days, surely?
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2010, 03:53:58 AM »
 i shit you not if i could walk my ass down to the library i'd find it look at the merck entries it was an old one i forget the edition it was mentioned diethylamine was "fermented" with a strain of claviceps paspalli i would'nt just make it up.
funny you mentioned strains because this was also mentioned in the abstract.
that would be gold.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 04:47:09 AM by jon »

overunity33

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2010, 04:11:03 AM »
i shit you not if i could walk my ass down to the library i'd find it look at the merck entries it was an old one i forget the edition it was mentioned diethylamine was "fermented" with a strain of claviceps paspalli i would'nt just make it up.

You find me this ref and I will RUN my ass to the library.

Overunity...rings a bell, not jemma jamerson from the old hive days, surely?
Nah, was a total newb back in the hive days.  Overunity = a device that makes more energy then is put in. 

Nice, you mentioned Hyperlab. But is that your bio-reactor? NICE!
Nah thats actually the bioreactor from hyperlab, real fancy.  They can be made at home with quart jars, polyfill and high temp tubing.  Once you get those cultures going you sterilize and innoculate your modified 10+ gallon electric pressure cooker full of broth.

jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2010, 04:24:54 AM »
merck index ed. 8 if you get the download i'll find you the ref.
i have a question about those liquid cultures are they done under aeorobic or anerobic conditions?
'scuse my ingnorance.
#2 don't they have to be agitated on a rotary shaker??
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 04:27:42 AM by jon »

overunity33

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2010, 04:37:24 AM »
merck index ed. 8 if you get the download i'll find you the ref.
i have a question about those liquid cultures are they done under aeorobic or anerobic conditions?
'scuse my ingnorance.
#2 don't they have to be agitated on a rotary shaker??

Jon, you are anything but ignorant, mad respect  8) just humble enough to be able to ask for advice...

The cultures are aeorobic, filtered air is constantly introduced.  I guess "fermenting" is not the best term.  I think for the smaller seed cultures you can get away with the agitation from simply the bubbling, since your goal isn't a high yield but an easy way to inoculate your larger fermenter.  The larger fermenter should for sure have a stirrer built in as well as fresh air being introduced.  

P.S.  don't use UV to sterilize your air source, it will generate small amounts of ozone that will harm your cultures.  Best bet would be a particulate filter then carbon filter then hepa filter, as well as antibiotics introduced to the culture.  Antibiotics and rigorous air filtration might not even be necessary if 20% or so of the large fermenter's volume comes from the seed cultures.  Little guys should be able to protect themselves.  I believe Stephens + Halls old school references on the subject go into detail on construction of a large fermenter.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 04:39:35 AM by overunity33 »

jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2010, 05:31:37 AM »
mycology is quite a science.
which reminds me of another off the wall topic on the subject of mycology.
i'll say mr.a to protect his identity had a beef with a student so he mutated this athelete's foot fungus with the intention of placing the fungus in his mark's shoes in the locker room i thought it was pretty funny except the f.b.i. came to investigate the matter for some reason unbeknownst to me.
it was breed to be a rather persistant and nasty strain.
oh the fun you can have with microorganisms!!!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 06:37:12 AM by jon »

Vesp

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2010, 04:32:54 PM »
Edition 8? That must be a million years old by now. I have, in hard back, 28, 41, 47, 64, and 66th editions.
I'll look for it in there when I've got the time to look through all those pages and pull them out of storage, unless you think it isn't mentioned in them?


Edit: I'm an idiot, those are my CRC chemistry and physics hand books - I got those confused -- for some reason I remembered the numbers instead of the title.
I have the Merk 8th edition in my lap right now.... however :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 08:52:53 PM by Vesp »
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overunity33

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2010, 06:40:15 PM »
Couldn't find it online.  Ill grab ed. 8 tonight from the library, stay tuned.

jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #52 on: August 12, 2010, 07:06:56 PM »
okay fuck the confusion about the editions i saw it circa '93 whatever that edition yes it's in there.
work back from the newer ones it's probably still there.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #53 on: August 12, 2010, 07:17:50 PM »
Would metronidazole be suitable for the antibiotic? the experimenter has loads of the stuff, as well as a large, unused script of clindamycin, plus a small amount of erythromycin left over.

I noted that metronidazole is listed as 'reasonably likely to be a human carcinogen'
I would hope that would not be equal to 'mutagenic', it would be most unpleasant to find one's prized high-yielding strain turned to auxotrophic, low-yielding shit in the culture medium because of the antibiotic used.

Chloramphenicol is used here also as OTC eye drops.
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

Vesp

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #54 on: August 12, 2010, 09:03:37 PM »
Great call/memory jon!
I found the reference....
This is from my THE MERK INDEX EIGHTH EDITION, Page 632 under Lysergide, which is LSD...

microbial formation by claviceps paspali over the hydroxyethylamide: Acramone et al., Proc. Roy. Soc (London) Ser. B, 155, 26 (1961).  

Hope that is helpful :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 09:07:16 PM by Vesp »
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jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #55 on: August 12, 2010, 10:09:01 PM »
told i don't bullshit besides if you want to be a good chemist you have to have a damn good memory.
that's fucking gold!!!!
let's start brewing!!!
what i'm intrepreting here is the hydroxyethylamide is just an equilibrium adduct of acetadehyde and lysergic acid amide so the strain that produces exclusively lsa is the winner of the international beer competition.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 10:12:42 PM by jon »

overunity33

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2010, 10:14:08 PM »
Great call/memory jon!
I found the reference....
This is from my THE MERK INDEX EIGHTH EDITION, Page 632 under Lysergide, which is LSD...

microbial formation by claviceps paspali over the hydroxyethylamide: Acramone et al., Proc. Roy. Soc (London) Ser. B, 155, 26 (1961).  

Hope that is helpful :)

Jon, didn't doubt you for a second...
haha I just got back from the library and was about to post this, you beat me to the punch.
Someone grab this ref, couldn't find the old journals the my lib.
Once someone grabs this ref ill make a new post with additional information.  
I'm ready to start brewing some kaleidoscope lager.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 10:16:29 PM by overunity33 »

jon

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2010, 10:19:26 PM »
i think this is going to be an interesting thread, also to parties not welcome here.

Tsathoggua

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2010, 10:31:50 PM »
Oh I bet it is, I just fucking bet it is.

Love to see the look on their snouts if highly productive strains were to start appearing everywhere.

Once that kind of genie gets out of its bottle, it sure as hell isn't likely to go back in again....
Nomen mihi Legio est, quia multi sumus

I'm hyperbolic, hypergolic, viral, chiral. So motherfucking twisted my laevo is on the right side.

embezzler

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Re: Mutating Organisms. How?
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2010, 10:35:56 PM »
EDIT the reference may be wrong. Apolgies but I will find the correct one. The reference seems the same, its the same author, issue, volume and year. But the title seems screwey. i have fucked up somehow so if someone can help me find how id appreciate it.

Well here is the article, i have only spent a second scanning it and it looks well interesting  :D

Production of a new lysergic acid derivative in submerged
culture by a strain of Claviceps pcaspali Stevens & Hall

Source: Proceedings of the Royal Society of London. Series B, Biological Sciences, Vol. 155, No.
958 (Oct. 17, 1961), pp. 26-54
Published by: The Royal Society
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/90321

BY F. ARCAMONE, E. B. CHAIN, F.R.S., A. FERRETTI, A. MINGHETTI,
P. PENNELLA, A. TONOLO AND LIDIA VERO

International Centre for Chemical Microbiology
Istituto Superiore di Sanit4, Rome
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 10:56:01 PM by embezzler »
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