no im not from the US. ill look around
Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2011, 11:20:03 PM »
Topic: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues (Read 691 times)
letters
- Subordinate Wasp
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dingbow
- Pupae
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #61 on: April 25, 2011, 02:43:21 AM »
Are you in the US? Im not sure about importing into the US but I had pretty easy time buying sassy in direct from China, have a look at some of those Asian trading websites. It can be gotten for like $50 per kg including delivery by courier. Some of them will even relable stuff to get it out threw customs. Have a look around, its out there!Pretty much anything you could dream of is available through China, problem is getting it through customs and how much risk your willing to take. Personally I wouldnt order anything of this sort from overseas, but hey circumstances could be different for different countries.
Methyl Man
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #62 on: April 25, 2011, 01:46:02 PM »
Pretty much anything you could dream of is available through China, problem is getting it through customs and how much risk your willing to take. Personally I wouldnt order anything of this sort from overseas, but hey circumstances could be different for different countries.
What are the risks, in a practical sense, if one has made sure the Chinese supplier has mislabeled it appropriately? I've been thinking this one over a lot the last few days. Seems to me that that would take about 98% of the risk out of it. I suppose there's a slight risk that US Customs could randomly stop one's package of "tea tree oil" and inspect it, but what are the odds (especially if it's a smallish amount like 3kg as opposed to 20kg)? And since it's labeled as something innocent, even if detected, the buyer is pretty well in the clear, no? (the argument could be effectively made that the Chinese source screwed up and sent the wrong stuff)
It would be very important to not leave copies of emails existing on one's computer and with one's ISP that document one's communication with the Chinese source asking for a restricted product and including one's name and address in said email. This is where things like VPN and encryption really come into play.
RoidRage
- Dominant Queen
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2011, 06:14:47 PM »
Document attached is food for though 
Don't think you can gets in trouble for getting something mislabeled (I suppose you can always deny it), but I still wouldn't like to have the authorities, especially federal ones, questioning me.
Anyway, customs officials ***KNOWS*** that the chineses get all sort of stuff through borders all over the world by mislabeling. Do every customs agents actually care/knows about testing random ''essentials oils'' bottles from ? That's probably another story
Don't think you can gets in trouble for getting something mislabeled (I suppose you can always deny it), but I still wouldn't like to have the authorities, especially federal ones, questioning me.
Anyway, customs officials ***KNOWS*** that the chineses get all sort of stuff through borders all over the world by mislabeling. Do every customs agents actually care/knows about testing random ''essentials oils'' bottles from ? That's probably another story
UN Office On Drugs And Crime - Color Tests For Precursors Chemicals Of Amphetamine-Type Stimulants.pdf
(1311.25 kB - downloaded 16 times.)akcom
- Dominant Queen
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2011, 07:11:43 PM »
Think about the volume of international trade coming from china. You really think they're going to test a 3kg drum of tea tree oil? They've got bigger issues to worry about.
Methyl Man
- Subordinate Wasp
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2011, 08:11:59 PM »
RR: agreed, I still wouldn't want to experience that.
I haven't read your attached doc yet but my first thought is that if it's the crude kind of test I think it is, eugenol or apiole might turn the same color as safrole, so if it were a "clove oil" or "fennel seed oil" shipment then that test wouldn't be much help (however one's trained nose is all one needs... sass smells way different from clove or most things, though I think fennel is damn close smelling, no?).
akcom: This is exactly what I'm thinking. That volume increases every day. If a guy is trying to be the big slick player who gets a 55 gallon drum in this way, then the odds are suddenly increased against him. The resources get used on low-hanging fruit first (and they would still have to have something to make that drum of "tea tree" suspicious in the first place, unless they are doing random spot-checks).
But if the order is pretty tiny, and under the threshhold amount for oils of this type in any case, it hopefully just cruises on through amongst the rushing tide of all the other thousands of shipments that are of that same small scale. Remember that in the US the threshold to legally buy/possess a safrole-containing oil is 4kg. It's just that the % limit is supposed to be like 20% or something right?
I might be way off but my sense of it is that they would have to rely almost completely on what shipping manifests say. What else could they rely on? Hunches? Can you imagine the chaotic clusterfuck in international trade if they started holding traffic up for no good reason---hunches, unfounded suspicions. I think that out of fear we imagine the system to be much more sensitive than it really is, But again, I don't really know. I know I wish I had a relative who worked at customs!
I haven't read your attached doc yet but my first thought is that if it's the crude kind of test I think it is, eugenol or apiole might turn the same color as safrole, so if it were a "clove oil" or "fennel seed oil" shipment then that test wouldn't be much help (however one's trained nose is all one needs... sass smells way different from clove or most things, though I think fennel is damn close smelling, no?).
akcom: This is exactly what I'm thinking. That volume increases every day. If a guy is trying to be the big slick player who gets a 55 gallon drum in this way, then the odds are suddenly increased against him. The resources get used on low-hanging fruit first (and they would still have to have something to make that drum of "tea tree" suspicious in the first place, unless they are doing random spot-checks).
But if the order is pretty tiny, and under the threshhold amount for oils of this type in any case, it hopefully just cruises on through amongst the rushing tide of all the other thousands of shipments that are of that same small scale. Remember that in the US the threshold to legally buy/possess a safrole-containing oil is 4kg. It's just that the % limit is supposed to be like 20% or something right?
I might be way off but my sense of it is that they would have to rely almost completely on what shipping manifests say. What else could they rely on? Hunches? Can you imagine the chaotic clusterfuck in international trade if they started holding traffic up for no good reason---hunches, unfounded suspicions. I think that out of fear we imagine the system to be much more sensitive than it really is, But again, I don't really know. I know I wish I had a relative who worked at customs!
Shake
- Dominant Queen
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2011, 06:26:03 AM »
letters, and anyone else who may be interested in getting oil from china, please note. china has 1600 000 000 people, all know karate and are really good on computers, and vast majority of them are broke they scam you. with everything and anything but ESPECIALLY illegal things like sass, they know even if you could report them some how you couldnt because its illegal anyway and they know it.
in summary, be very careful of scammers. i say order a 100ml sample first then go for kgs. sass is available just gotta go through the motions of finding it.
in summary, be very careful of scammers. i say order a 100ml sample first then go for kgs. sass is available just gotta go through the motions of finding it.
RoidRage
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2011, 07:00:21 AM »
RR: agreed, I still wouldn't want to experience that.
I haven't read your attached doc yet but my first thought is that if it's the crude kind of test I think it is, eugenol or apiole might turn the same color as safrole, so if it were a "clove oil" or "fennel seed oil" shipment then that test wouldn't be much help (however one's trained nose is all one needs... sass smells way different from clove or most things, though I think fennel is damn close smelling, no?).
You should have at least taken a peek Methyl Man
Safrole produces really specific reactions to the reagents used actually...Nice pictures are included in the document if you don't want bother reading ...I can't speak for odor, no idea what fennel smells...EDIT: quick wikipedia search tells me that anethole is the compound that gives fennel it's smell...I've got some anise star oil (for 2c-b, not for those awful para-methoxyamphetamines !!! ) lying around , and it definitly do not have the same smell as sassy. I would never mistake one oil for the other one, even blindfolded...
Would I worry about customs agents testing oils ? Not at all...was just some food for though
dingbow
- Pupae
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2011, 12:41:23 PM »
Not so long ago, someone was busted for attempting to import 500ml of safrole rich oil, they even had copies of his correspondance asking the supplier to mislabel the package. But I digress.
Its hard to quantitatively determine how much risk is involved with such international transactions, without knowing the precise workings of the local customs department, im also not from the USA and each country will be different. I would imagine even luck plays a big part.
You may be right though, it may indeed be 98% risk free. But to me its not about the statistical probability of being caught, but rather the consequences if indeed you are. Its like russian roulette, sure the odds are in your favour, yet the consequences are so extreme that you dont risk it.
Those who have sourced everything via OTC methods or anonymously locally, can generally rest at night knowing there isnt a van outside collecting data. Importing said goods from China and getting it through customs changes your risk profile tremendously, if this is how you have sourced thus far.
Coming back full circle again, it just comes down to an individuals appetite for risk
on an unrelated note, a quote from the attached pdf which stood out (p3): "Safrole can be synthesized from basic and uncontrolled chemicals."
Its hard to quantitatively determine how much risk is involved with such international transactions, without knowing the precise workings of the local customs department, im also not from the USA and each country will be different. I would imagine even luck plays a big part.
You may be right though, it may indeed be 98% risk free. But to me its not about the statistical probability of being caught, but rather the consequences if indeed you are. Its like russian roulette, sure the odds are in your favour, yet the consequences are so extreme that you dont risk it.
Those who have sourced everything via OTC methods or anonymously locally, can generally rest at night knowing there isnt a van outside collecting data. Importing said goods from China and getting it through customs changes your risk profile tremendously, if this is how you have sourced thus far.
Coming back full circle again, it just comes down to an individuals appetite for risk
on an unrelated note, a quote from the attached pdf which stood out (p3): "Safrole can be synthesized from basic and uncontrolled chemicals."
Methyl Man
- Subordinate Wasp
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2011, 02:21:28 PM »
RR: No I did read the doc after my last post. It was most discouraging... I didn't know the Marquis test was that good among the array of oils. Luckily, I don't have to go looking to buy any now, or even anytime soon.
dingbow: yep you're right, very similar to Russian Roulette in that respect. I have never bought anything from China so far and hope never to have to, because I agree it takes the game to a new level. Very tempting to think about though!
dingbow: yep you're right, very similar to Russian Roulette in that respect. I have never bought anything from China so far and hope never to have to, because I agree it takes the game to a new level. Very tempting to think about though!
beanhead
- Larvae
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2011, 02:29:16 PM »
If you're european you should go for it methylman, I have talked with a few chinese people and just asked them to in fact mislabel it... Small quantities that is, because paranoia happens to us all but I eventually received it without problems ...
...jon
- Foundress Queen
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2011, 09:46:49 PM »
a lot of them chinnesse will run castor oil up your ass then you can at least say they gave you the benefit of the lube up and possibly the reacharound too.
Methyl Man
- Subordinate Wasp
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2011, 03:06:40 PM »
beanhead, I wish I were European... god how I wish I were. If I had enough money, I would have already become European (or maybe a Thai resident) long ago. If I lived in Thailand I wouldn't even need drugs. Between the women and the food, I'd have enough sensory stimulation to keep me busy.
salat
- Dominant Queen
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Re: Them down an' dirty sassy bumpin' blues
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2011, 03:26:43 PM »
If you read the old pharm journals or books from 19th century on google it is full of tales of adulterated oils and how to test to check for the most common ones. The chinese have a lonnnng history of scamming.
Salat
Salat