Author Topic: diazotation of tryptamine  (Read 245 times)

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
diazotation of tryptamine
« on: January 03, 2010, 08:03:10 PM »
anyone given though to this scheme?
 i don't see it anywhere in the literature.
 diazoltize tryptamine in the prescence of an acid like hcl to form the terminal haloethane substituted indol
after this one can easily make into det dipt etc by just substitution in alcohol with the appropriate amine.
get back to me on that?

Evilblaze

  • Guest
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 12:23:00 AM »
AWESOME IDEA!

With "normal" diazonium salts it should go like this:
 
Ar-N2-SO4H + KX = Ar-X + N2 + KHSO4
Where X is Cl, Br, I.

Or with the original method:
Ar-N2-Cl = ArCl + N2
With CuCl catalyst.

My only problems are:
-Normally tryptamine is not the most stable things in the word so it could easily happen, that under the diazotation it would easily decompose.
-The N in the indole. You should protect it with something.
-The diazotation goes in water (normally) and if you try to make the halide in water than this could easily happen: Ar-N2-Cl + H2O = ArOH + N2 + HCl.
-If you make it in alcohol (as a solvent) Ar-N2-Cl + ROH = Ar + N2 + HCl + RHO (aldehye) or Ar-N2-Cl + ROH = ArOR + N2 + HCl

As soon as I get some GABA I will try out this method:) I really like this idea.

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 03:41:47 AM »
the "N" you speak of is aromatic and does'nt  undergo the same reactions as an amine for instance.
diazotization conditions are mild around room temp i don't see problem

Naf1

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2010, 01:40:59 AM »
"Similarly, 2-(4-aminophenyl)-1H-indole derivatives 5 (40–62%) were synthesized and the amino group was converted to azido group by diazotation with sodium nitrite and hydrochloric acid and then treatment with sodium azide to obtain 2-(4-(azido)phenyl)-1H-indoles 6 (55–68%)"


Design and Synthesis of Some 5-Substituted-2-(4-(azido or methylsulfonyl)phenyl)-1H-indole Derivatives as Selective Cyclooxygenase (COX-2) Inhibitors

http://www.scipharm.at/download.asp?id=269


edit; HCl and Sodium nitrate would produce a diazonium salt. Where you thinking of a Sandmeyer type reaction, in which copper salts would be used to decompose the formed diazonium salt into the alkyl halide as suggested?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 02:02:48 AM by Naf1 »

Bluebottle

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2010, 02:41:48 AM »
"The intermediates resulting from the diazotization of primary, aliphatic amines are unstable; they are rapidly converted into carbocations after loss of nitrogen, and yield products derived from substitution, elimination or rearrangement processes."

-- http://www.organic-chemistry.org/namedreactions/diazotisation.shtm

Unfortunately it won't work.
"And now we divide both sides by zero..."

Naf1

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 02:50:26 AM »
"The intermediates resulting from the diazotization of primary, aliphatic amines are unstable; they are rapidly converted into carbocations after loss of nitrogen, and yield products derived from substitution, elimination or rearrangement processes."

LOL, and the paragraph above that said;

"Diazonium salts are important intermediates for the preparation of halides (Sandmeyer Reaction, Schiemann Reaction), and azo compounds. Diazonium salts can react as pseudohalide-type electrophiles, and can therefore be used in specific protocols for the Heck Reaction or Suzuki Coupling."

check out the Sandmeyer reaction at that site!
http://www.organic-chemistry.org/namedreactions/sandmeyer-reaction.shtm
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 02:54:26 AM by Naf1 »

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 05:01:27 AM »
sorry been away but yes the sandemeyer reaction was what i was refeerring to.
 and instability i think that's kind of the idea of a diazonium salt, it's an intermediate.

Bluebottle

  • Subordinate Wasp
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 04:08:54 PM »
Stupid mistake! I took the quoted statement to mean that the diazonium salts of alkyl amines (such as tryptamine) would spontaneously decompose to an unuseable material, but I must not have been thinking. R-N2+ X- --> N2 + R-X which is the desired product.
"And now we divide both sides by zero..."

Buzzoff

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2010, 08:37:37 AM »
Indoles that are unsubstituted in the 2 position, may be adversely effected under acidic conditions.

Diazotizations are usually performed on anilines. 

It is however, possible to Diazotize Amino Acids.  Theoretically, tryptophan could be  diazotized, the amino function displaced by a halogen, and the resulting Alpha-Halogen-acid...could be reacted with an N,N-alkyl-amine, to form an N,N-Di-alkyl-tryptophan.

Decarboxylation of course, might be difficult.  As the Di-alkylamino function is unable to form an imine.

jon

  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,883
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 05:52:27 PM »
i was shooting another idea around.
what about strecker degredation is tryptophane to indole-3-acetaldehyde, then reductive amination of that clarke-ersheweiler  style with diethylamine or morphiloine as the secondary amine.
would this work? it certainly is convenient.

Buzzoff

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 07:12:29 PM »
Seems to be hard to actually isolate any aldehyde from this reaction.  No one I've heard of, has pulled it off. 

Might be possible to do it in-situ though, by reacting tryptophan with TCCA, thereby forming the indole-3-acetonitrile (and then reducing it).  Since the TCCA conditions are fairly mild, there is a reasonable chance of success at forming the acetonitrile.  Very high yields are routine for such reactions.
Need to confirm actual product?  Just hydrolyse some of your mystery material.  Lots of data on Indole-3-acetic acid.  Easy to identify.

Catalytic reduction of the nitrile, via hydrogenation, then proceeds via an unstable aldimine intermediate.  Indole-CH2CH=NH......Traditionally, in the hydrogenation of nitriles, the reduction solvent is saturated with ammonia to insure that only the primary amine forms.

However, if the reduction takes place in a solvent saturated with a secondary amine, say dimethylamine, replacement of the unstable primary aldimine by the N,N-Dimethyl-aldimine might become the favored reaction.  Resulting in the final reduction product being DMT.   An  analogous reduction is known to occur when Phenylacetonitrile is hydrogenated in the presence of Dimethylamine.

Nitriles from Aminoacids via TCCA.  SYNLETT. 2004, No.12, pp2180-2184

Buck Dimethylamino phenethylamine from phenylacetonitrile, hydrogenation
J.Am. Chem. Soc. 1938, 60  pp1789-1792


Might be better procedures, and I haven't actually seen this hydrogenation paper yet.  But folks claim it contains pertinent information.

Developing such a reaction sequence might result in a high yielding,  economical, and easy tryptamine synthesis.

8)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 07:59:44 PM by Buzzoff »

Enkidu

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 677
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2010, 07:57:22 PM »
react tryptophan with TCCA, thereby forming the indole-3-acetonitrile

I know a practicing synthetic chemist who tried it and failed. Doesn't mean it won't work, but it doesn't look promising. NBS might work... that's what I'd try next. (or actually I'd try DBDMH)

Buzzoff

  • Larvae
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2010, 08:22:56 PM »
Has he tried the  TCCA proceedure with other substrates? 

The author of Synlett TCCA procedure claims very high yields, but Tryptophan was not one of the materials he reported on.

Enkidu

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 677
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2010, 12:27:42 AM »
Has he tried the  TCCA proceedure with other substrates? 
Dunno, I think not.

The author of Synlett TCCA procedure claims very high yields, but Tryptophan was not one of the materials he reported on.
It's probably for a reason.. The indole moiety, though aromatic, is relatively unstable.

Sedit

  • Global Moderator
  • Foundress Queen
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,099
Re: diazotation of tryptamine
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 01:28:06 AM »
The HNO2 required can be synthesized without the need for NaNO2.

HNO2 + Sodium metabisulfite also forms HNO2 insitu from the SO2 formed from the bisulfite hydrolysis reducing the HNO3 and testing of this has proved promising as an understatement.

Clean NaNO2 is much harder to get then clean Nitric acid so say the least.

SO2 is also a substitute to the Metabisulfite. Bubble SO2 into concentrated HNO3 then slowly under very cold condition drip this onto the amine you wish to undergo diazotation.
There once were some bees and you took all there stuff!
You pissed off the wasp now enough is enough!!!