Giant MDMA crystals

[sassa]

New notices:evaporation from saturated solutions of 75%salt/25%mannitol ,both on methanol(mannitol didn´t dissolve of course) and water/acetone ,results on not pretty sugar like crystals of mdma hcl.Seems not necesary to prove it on mda hcl .
  
Found that too...."If you don’t want to gas then adding straight muriatic acid to it can also be done. But your going to have to remove the acetone and water with another distillation. When all the water is removed, the oil doesn’t flash into a powder, it gets real thick like tree sap, then begins to harden after heat is shut off and allowed to cool. If you do take this route, then please pour hot oil into a glass baking plate before it gets a chance to cool because it get hard like a rock and it is damn near impassible it get out of a round bottom flask without extremely damaging your final yield...."
 
So...I´m thinking again about  the fusing method.....more stricktly, make a saturated solution of salt-mannitol mix until water is stripped off....remeber when making methylamine,that orange thick liquid after vacumm ride off any water...that converted on a big white chunk on seconds when let it cool....maybe letting get cold more slowly....
   

[sassa]

I was talking with one of the guys that make anual analisys of the drugs distributed on the market on my country about that question,and told me that,since all info about fillers-adulterants on exctasy related compunds are basically a mix of pills/crystall dates,told me ther is some disinformation about crystal/pills mdma fillers.
    Since most common fillers on pills are sacarose,lactose,mannitol,and other sugars....the principal filler on crystall mdma (said by he) it´s Calcium Sulfate...
  Told me about his experiences,when the crystall arrives to the lab from people that send to it to analyse what he bought on the street to consume it safe,when the crystal it´s on little rocks-powder form,normally found that calcium sulfate,mixed with sugar as fillers-binders,...but when arrives a chunk of rock mdma,that binder it´s exclusivelly calcium sulphate and no more.Some info about 2003-2007 period,posibly golden age of crystal mdma on my country:
     Crystal 1           95%mdma       3% calcium sulphate
     Crystal 2           82%mdma       15 % calcium sulphate
     Crystal 3           68% mdma      29% calcium sulphate
     crystal 4           ...........
  
   There are more results in the same way for most samples...
   I have read about calcium sulfate like a good excipient on pharmaceutical industry,but read too it isn´t very soluble on water,better on cold water and becomes more insoluble when temperature goes up,and that form several hydrated forms,from anhydrous to heptahydrate....
   Remembered too that it´s use commonly as desecant for non-polar solvents(isn´t it)
   So,after reading about that.....can become the bigs chunks of mdma from treating the mdma freebase with hcl solution,and then adition of the calcium sulphate to get ride of the water and consolidation of the mdma crystals with the calcium sulfate in an unique solid chunk after several hours to get things quickly?
   Sounds very similar to the fact of adding mannitol when the freebase it´s treated with hcl solution told by someone to make things more faster/hurry.....

[jon]

inositol is good it's a polyalcohol sugar with no taste.
that calcium sulfate idea is ingenious.

[sassa]

Saddly,like allways,i don´t have any calcium sulfate to experiment.Of course i will add a little ammount on my next order to experiment with it,but i can´t figure out well how to integrate mdma salt-calcium sulfate ,but i´m almost sure about have to be water involved on that process,to make the hydrate form on the calcium sulfate but didn´t know what to expect until i have some to prove.
  About evaporation of solutions of a mix of mdma hcl+sacarose/mannitol,resulted on poor crystall formartion from water and from alcohols.....
  I remembered too a conversation with i friend years ago(saddly he doesn´t have chemistry formation),that have oportunity to make friendship with a dealer,and have oportunity of be present when his dealer whas transforming what he think was a powder/oil/...(don´t remember) product on a violet crystal structure.He told me he did that at his kitchen with a frying pan heating  slowly something,and in some like 30 -35 minutes he had converted the product(he didn´t know if it was freebase/salt/...)on big violet crystalls,only 3-4 grams.Told me he used too some drops of posibly a colorant .I proved and saw weeks later that crystals and were awsome,both aspect and efects,best summer of my live haha!Saddly it´s imposible to me contact this guy..and of course the information it´s 100% trusty.He told me the dealer afirm that was pure marketing,because nobody wanted powder product,and the market was used to crystall form,so he used to buy the salt/freebase(didn´t know) very far,traveled with it good hidden,and transform it to the crystal at home,....and told him most people do that,without any relation to the synthesis proces,.....of course i repeat the information from my friend it´s 100% to trust...but not information from the dealer...posibly he sold us candy rock impregnated on meth who knows ! .Talking seriously,the product was excellent!
    This guy told me he think sure the dealer was working only on the process of transform the final product on crystal to go to the market,because didn´t have any complex lab a his home,but who knows....

   These days i thinking a lot about that frying pan with low heat,but didn´t come to me any hypothesis to me to explains so quick transformation on so clean and beatifull product of the salt /freebase,anyway.Sure a total "old school" technique!
   Any hypothesis?

[sassa]

More info from 2001-2005 period.Folowing rules,we can´t make alussions to locations,but that info must be 99% related to netherlands and uk mdma crystal.

Crystal  Mdma Sample       Location    %mdma    %lactose    %calcium sulfate     others
    1                                                   99%
    2                                                   99%
    3                                                   99%
    4                                                   98%                                               2%insolubles no identified
    5                                                   97,51%                     2´49%
    6                                                   97´5%                      2´5%
    7                                                   97´5%                      2´5%
    8                                                   97,65%                     2´35%
    9                                                   94´42%     5´8%
    10                                                  90´25                      9,75%
    11                                                 84,95%                      15´15%
    12                                                 57,57%                      38´1%                mannitol 4´33%
    13                                                 40´06%      4´3%        55´81%
    14                                                 82,68%       10´06%     6´72%
   
    Of course,there are more samples,with little amounts of mda,caffeine,paracetamol,...but i have written down the most representative to me,those that talk about relation on mdma-calcium sulphate ratios,starting from samples with 99% mdma and no calcium sulfate to sample 13: 40% mdma 55% calcium sulfate and little amount lactose.

  I was reading a lot these days about co-crystals,of course experimenting with calcium sulfate would be fine,but don´t have any at this moment.About all my reads,mostly about pharmaceutical uses,most interesting articles talks about using co-crystals formed by  fluoxetine hcl with almost anything ,succinic acid,fumaric acid,tartaric acid,citric acid,organic salts,CALCIUM SULFATE of course....almost anything....with different tendencies to make hydrogen bonding.
  I was almost sure the explication about this thread it´s on co´crystals.But that samples of 99% mdma are tricky too.But i can´t confirm it was powder/crystal apearence.
   On articles experiences,people talk about making concentrated solutions of active ingredient salt +substances suitable to make hydrogen bond at diferent ratios,letting evaporate slowly and talks about big and quickly crystal forming.....
   So,must be not related to the moment the freebase it´s treated with hcl,posibly can be made after that,with the amine hcl on hand,...don´t know until i have some calcium sulfate.
   Have doubts too about what type hydrated for of calcium sulfate it´s the best suitable to make that(anhydrous,hemihidrated,byhidrated,....),because diferent solubilities related....

     PD:ABOUT THOSE COMENTARIES ON OTHERS TOPICS ABOUT WE ARE BASTARDS LOOKING FOR RIP PEOPLE,SELLING CUTTED DRUGS,....I HAVE TO SAY AGAIN(DON´T MIND THOSE PERSON DOESN´T BELIEVE ME T ALL),...I /WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW THE UNDERGROUND CHEMIST WORK TO MAKE CRYSTAL STRUCTURE WE ARE NOT ABLE TO MAKE AND MOST IMPORTANT,WE ARE NOT ABLE TO EXPLAIN.
   REPEATING  AGAIN,I DIDN´T SELL ANYTHING TO NOBODY NEVER...NEVER.OF COURSE ME AND MY FRIENDS HAD  PLENTY OF GOOD ROLLS,AND WHEN A GAVED IT FOR FREE TO A FRIEND SOME PRODUCT,OF COURSE I ADVICE HIM/SHE PERFECTLY ABOUT EXACT COMPOSITION AND PURITY....NO DOUBT 99% FOR SURE.
 

[sassa]

Well,posibly maybe important talk about what kind of "chunks" i have seen on street mdma along the years,and on my experience,are mostly to types:
 * A) "conglomerate" of little translucent crystals into a more opaque matrix,with dust mdma too.That it´s exactly what i´ve got from that accidental "re-crystallization" of the salt after trying to clean my salt.I dream about it(and got it again),so think that some water have to be involved.Trying to do it with intention,will be :
    -1.scrap the crystalls when there aren´t totally dry,and some liquid it´s still over it..That "oily" looking before the crystalls are totally dry,swirl on a good volume acetone,like 500 ml,with not totally disolution of the salt,only partially,and put on the frezzer for days.After deposition,poor of the acetone,take the gummy mass with a spoon a let dry to get the chunk.i think peole with not too much scrupules can add at this moment any puffy filler material or excipient and will be trapped on the matrix.The finall consistency  it´s a lot similar to a biscuit./cookie
  - 2.take the totally dry crystalls,swirl on good amount acetone and add little drops water until less than half disolve,put on the freezer for days and same result after drying the gummy mass(not proved)

 Of course,allways a minimal amount salt it´s still on acetone solution,so you can let evaporate and repeat process.

   Of course,i talk about water,because when done that with typicall recrystallization from IPA/acetone you get fine well defined crystalls that dont get thick on a mass,and with Methanol/acetone crystalls are only little biggers,bend on a semi´solid "biscuit" ,but that brokes easily mecanical.
   However,that chunk from acetone/minimum water,gets really thick and hard,easy to broke but with that cookie consistency.

*B) That "quartz rocks" of more than 20 gr,homogeneus,crystalline,Can explain it at all with HCL salt,maybe that can result from other salts.
      -Citrates:you guys have said almost imposible to get well defined crystalls,lees a big quarzt.
      -Acetates: like jon says:not too much popular,isn´t it?maybe little absortion potencial?
      -Sulfates: not much info about it related to mdma,but supossed to be of "prolong" liberation on body,like much medicines that are formulated on sulfate to decrease absortion rate?(of course,i talk without not too much knowlegement about that things),but maybe can that explain the presence of Calcium sulfate on the samples i talked about time ago?from neutralization of the sulfuric excess when making the sulfate salt with any Calcium base like CaOH,CaCO3,...?
     -Tartrates:are known on some underground sites as "twice as potent" than mdma and mda hcl salts,because its great absotion capacity by body.
    I have at my work a bottle plenty of natural Tartaric acid,and the consistency of that 10-20 gr light orange quartz almost transparent  rocks reminds me a lot what i´ve seen on mdma traslucent rocks.I don´t know if it´s racemic or not,i suposse by apearence it´s natural(+)(-)  tartaric acid because color,but those giant quartz crystalls are awsome.

  Yeah,another hypothesys  ,....maybe i´m getting obsesive about that,but of course,i wanna make some mdma tartrate and prove potency and consistency.
    I suposse it´s so easy as reacting mdma freebase disolved on methanol with tartaric acid disolved on methanol until neutrality,...put on freezer to get the mdma tartrate crystalls....but i have doubts about excess tartaric acid will precipitate too or not ,and how to eliminate that excess.anyway,tartaric acid taste it´s really spicy and good on little amounts ,but will be a good idea to get ride off it.
   Like allways,you, experienced guys, sure have the way to do that easily.


 

[jon]

i used to get translucent crystals from dirty mdma made from bromosafrole like this:
i would add what i thought was a stoichiometric amount of acetic acid.
there is always an overshoot (too much acid) so i took it off under vacum and heat.
then i took this brownish colored oil mdma acetate and dissolved it in maybe 2-3 volumes of alcohol ethanol.
then i added acetone and the crystals came back snow white for mdma acetate.

[sassa]

Well,posibly maybe important talk about what kind of "chunks"  i have seen on street mdma along the years,and on my experience,are mostly to types:
*  A) "conglomerate" of little translucent crystals into a more opaque matrix,with dust mdma too.That it´s exactly what i´ve got from that accidental "re-crystallization" of the salt after trying to clean my salt.I dream about it(and got it again),so think that some water have to be involved.Trying to do it with intention,will be :
    -1.scrap the crystalls when there aren´t totally dry,and some liquid it´s still over it..That "oily" looking before the crystalls are totally dry,swirl on a good volume acetone,like 500 ml,with not totally disolution of the salt,only partially,and put on the frezzer for days.After deposition,poor of the acetone,take the gummy mass with a spoon a let dry to get the chunk.i think peole with not too much scrupules can add at this moment any puffy filler material or excipient and will be trapped on the matrix.The finall consistency  it´s a lot similar to a biscuit./cookie
  - 2.take the totally dry crystalls,swirl on good amount acetone and add little drops water until less than half disolve,put on the freezer for days and same result after drying the gummy mass.

 Of course,allways a minimal amount salt it´s still on acetone solution,so you can let evaporate and repeat process.

   Of course,i talk about water,because when done that with typicall recrystallization from IPA/acetone you get fine crystalls that dont get thick on a mass,and with Methanol/acetone crystalls are only little biggers,bend on a semi´solid "biscuit" ,but that brokes easily mecanical.
   However,that chunk from acetone/minimum water,gets really thick and hard,easy to broke but with that cookie consistency.

*B) That "quartz rocks" of more than 20 gr,homogeneus,crystalline,Can explain it at all with HCL salt,maybe that can result from other salts.
      -Citrates:you guys have said almost imposible to get well defined crystalls,lees a big quarzt.
      -Acetates: like jon says:not too much popular,isn´t it?maybe little absortion potencial?
      -Sulfates: not much info about it related to mdma,mostly plain amphetamine ,but supossed to be of "prolong" liberation on body,like much medicines that are formulated on sulfate to decrease absortion rate?(of course,i talk without not too much knowlegement about that things),but maybe can that explain the presence of Calcium sulfate on the samples i talked about time ago,from neutralization of the sulfuric excess when making the sulfate salt with any Calcium base like CaOH,CaCO3,...
     -Tartrates:are known on some underground sites as "twice as potent" than mdma and mda hcl salts,because that great absortion potencial by body...but seems nobody talk about that.
    I have at my work a bottle plenty of natural Tartaric acid,and the consistency of that 10-15 gr. light orange quartz almost transparent  rocks reminds me a lot what i´ve seen on mdma traslucent rocks.I suposse it´s (+)(-) tartaric acid,racemic,not only one isomer,i don´t know because bottle it´s old and it´s labelled by hand only as "tartaric acid",but those crystalls are really awsome to be racemic tartaric acid.

  Yeah,another hypothesys  ,....maybe i´m getting obsesive about that,but of course,i wanna make some mdma tartrate and prove potency and consistency.Of course,dealing with a weak acid like that is better than hcl .Have to say,i spent my time mostly crystallizing,and have problems way often with gassing,slow evaporations,...you know.,,,
    I suposse it´s so easy as reacting mdma freebase disolved on methanol with tartaric acid disolved on methanol until neutrality,...put on freezer to get the mdma tartrate crystalls....but i have doubts about excess tartaric acid will precipitate too and how to eliminate that excess.anyway,tartaric acid taste it´s really spicy and good on little amounts ,but will be a good idea to get ride off it.
   Like allways,you experienced guys sure have the way to don that.

[sassa]

fuck,i´ve deleted one post/duplicated last

[marakov]

Get suitable solvent to dissolve compound. Heat solvent to just below reflux with stirring.
Add compound in small amount until solution is super saturated. A tiny amount of compound will appear undissolved.
Remove heating and stirring to make settle.

Slowly decant hot solvent into charcoal vacuum insulated thermos. Do not decant portion containing undissolved compound.
Seal and place somewhere it will not be disturbed.

Return in seven days. Longer is better.

Slowly decant solvent from thermos into beaker or flask. Solvent still contains compound and impurities.
If you chose a suitable solvent you should have a mass of quality crystals.

Slowly lowering the temperature of the solvent of a super saturated solution makes crystallization is slower and the crystal structure contains less impurities. The thermos does this well.

[jon]

also if you melt it with pure msm.
when it cools it looks like one sheet.
gotta sell the customer. single solvent recrystalization is the slowest so you can expect bigger crystal.
also like he said slowly warming makes the cystals bigger.
failing this you can melt it with a cut and let it turn solid.

[Terror]

Msm is a dirty meth trick. Seen big "rocks" made that way by boiling acetone
.

[jon]

that's what a consumer wants to see, never question the logic of the consumer.

[sassa]

yeah....Curiously i was reading yesterday at night about meth cuttting methods,and seems MSM it´s well known by lot people as the primary meth cutting agent,and responsable of tht big transparent methamphetamine crystals.Realted to that,people talks about discard that kind of meth and go for turbidity/more opaque crystal quality because that.
 
 MSM Used as a Cutting Agent.National Drug Intelligence Center
North Carolina Drug Threat Assessment
April 2003

   " MSM, the common commercial name for the chemical methylsulfonylmethane, also is known as methylsulfone and dimethylsulfone (DMSO2).

    As a cutting agent for methamphetamine, MSM offers many advantages. Pure MSM is an odorless, white, crystalline powder that is highly soluble and mixes readily with most substances without leaving a residue. MSM usually is added to methamphetamine during the final stages of production. Methamphetamine cut with MSM often appears to be uncut because after the chemicals are combined and the mixture cools, the MSM recrystallizes, resembling pure methamphetamine.

    MSM is readily available in powder and tablet forms at livestock feed and equine tack stores, "super" pet food chains, warehouse stores, human nutrition centers, and upscale grocery stores. MSM is available through mail order equine and veterinary supply catalogs and on numerous Internet sites."

 

[letters]

ive wrote it once here, and will again - one of the best ways to get uncut, crytalline chunks of any size, is to use water for crystallization. super saturate water with your md(m)a.hcl, add a seed crystal (the nicer looking the better, best acquired via the slow evaporation of alcoholic hcl solution) and let cool slowly. if you use a big oil bath, or a properly sized heating block, the cooling rate is slow enough to give a single chunk of same crystal as the seed crystal. if cooling rate is not slow enough the crystal turns opaque.

[sassa]

yeah letters,but the problem i have with water making a supersaturated solution it´s you have to work(in my experience) with a considerable amount of salt,because to reach that point when salt becomes to cristallize on surface you have to boil almost to dryness,and be very carefull about that,because on a moment you have reach the exact point and seconds after the solution it´s dry.
   About that,and learning much things from meth cookers,i was too mastering the acetone flash,and it´s a great method to newbees to re-cristallize the salt a good amount of times on few hours and get a very pure product.I use to extract the salt from toluenet with 300 ml 5%Hcl solution and let evaporate with fan,so the product it´s dirty enough to have to re-crystallize.I cover the salt with boling methanol,boil until crystals appeasr on surface,add 3X volume acetone on hot and crystalls snow from solution instanctly.On 2-3 times i have sparkly white salt.I know it´s better to not adding so much acetone and let crystal formation slow on freezer,but with this method i have a very good purity to storage the salt on powder form.
   I know acetone flash it´s nothing new,but think great to newbees like me.I learned to do it only weeks ago,because never had patience to let boil until crystal formation on alcohol, and learned too have to do without stirring on slow boliling,but when you learn to reach the point,you can re-crystallize on 2 hours like 4-5 times.
 And finally,a quickly method too to get a solid chunk from methanol or other dry alcohol i use now its to boil the solution until crystals form,add little hot methanol to disolve any crystals,power off the hotplate´,cover with aluminimun foil and like you know,let cold slowly to get almost transparent big chunk.
   Yeah guys,the secret,no matter method used,seems slow slow slow  cooling.

[letters]

sassa : a ratio of 2-3ml water per 1g of hcl salt works well for md type compounds. heat water to 80C, dump in your salt, stir till it dissolves (may need a few more drops added to fully dissolve if you used not enough water), then let cool slowly. in 24 hours you will have a single chunk of crystal. if the cooling rate is slow enough (and it helps to add a seed crystal) the chunk will be transparent. the return is excellent, exceeding 90% in most cases.
the use of methanol for this purpose is about the same. only thing i should note is that some solvent is retained within the crystal structure. when this solvent is methanol, and the compound is for human consumption, then its not so desirable, but to each his own.
Regarding acetone "flash" (which is really just a crashing out of the salt from a saturated solution) - you could probably get as clean crystals with only 1 or 2 crystallization if you do it slowly. a very good mix ive found that works especially well is dry IPA and hexanes. I dissolve the salt in boiling ipa, just below saturation, then add hexanes (currently we use here 60-80 pet. ether) till cloudyness does not go away. then stick it in the fridge over night. the return is usually very good and the product is also usually very clean, however it will most defiently be small crystals which resemble a shiny powder. it works much better then with diethyl ether as suggested by shulgin.

[sassa]

letters....proved that crystallization with water on mdma salt...used 2´5 ml for each gram of salt....water on oil bath to 80 ºC on litle beaker...disolved salt(too much easy=bad)...letting slow colling by turning off hotplate and covering  bowl...added seed crystal when warm......no chunk/no crystallization at all after 24 hours.....to me seems to much water for each gram....possibly 1-2 ml H20 on next try will be ok.....

[sassa]

sorry sorry sorry ....i checked out the beaker today.... ..not totally a chunk but...i moved beaker few times to see how it progress,....or to much water....but now all almost completly crystallized on 3 enormous crystalls like 3x3 cm dimensions...posibly that fragments will be solding together when free water evaporate....
   So that hydrate form of mdma hcl maybe a good way to giant crystalls....after that...i´m thinking about   i allways evaporate from water on final step....so a substancial weight amount of  salt it´s water??
    I made experiment with 5 grams salt and like 12´5 ml(12´5grams) water...when all crystallized i will weight again the hydrated salt to see how much water it´s really on it.
   Great succes,....next time will try with less water....but better of all,...i was waiting for days for water evaporation with fan on my experiments because too much diluted salt solutions,and with that new amounts,...you have all salt almost crystallized on little more than 24 hours if water amount it´s adjusted,no need to fan making noise,....and very much bigger and pretty crystalls/chunks.NICE!

[letters]

when doing this way getting over 93% consistently, and no need to bother with the leftover water, it contains impurities along with small amount of your salt, so its best to just pour it off.