Author Topic: Keeping us off the radar  (Read 669 times)

breakbot

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2012, 04:21:32 PM »
well this is my first post on here  ;D so i want to start by saying that i am thrilled to have joined this community

i think considering a move to the tor network is a good idea. while it is crucial to spread information it can also make things more difficult. i mean look how fast shake and bake meth became popular. it was only a few months after appearing online that everybody around the country was doing it and i continue to hear weekly reports of people arrested in walmart bathrooms and their cars while doing the reaction.

granted, meth addicts are a special breed  :o. but the point is that the release of some information should be regulated as it can easily show up on LE radar very fast. once this happens it is only a matter of time. Pickard was solely responsible for getting ergocristine placed as a list 1 chemical. knowing how popular pickard's work would be, they acted fast to prevent this from being a very easy route to lucy. it is a game of cat and mouse. i think it is very important to make this information available, but make it available to the right people. the people who seek it out and put in work finding it. it would be naive to shout it off of a mountaintop and pointless to keep it entirely hidden
« Last Edit: June 11, 2012, 04:36:54 PM by breakbot »

DopeBee

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2012, 06:46:59 PM »
I agree with breakbot. The only way to fight oppression, injustice or corruption is by being quiet and hiding in fear. We see it time and time again throughout history.

Just a couple examples off the top of my head:
1. African Americans gained civil rights because they knew how to keep their mouths shut and bow down to whitey.
2. America gained independence from the British empire by sacrificing a large shipment of their beloved tea to the ocean, in tribute to Britain's love for tea. And Britain was so delighted they granted America sovereignty.


breakbot

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2012, 10:20:36 PM »
haha. thanks dopebee  :(

i think it is very difficult to assess the appropriate course of action in these matters. on one hand there is the ideological front. by this i mean the fact that drugs are not bad and there is no justification for law regulating them (as many many legal philosophers have written about). IMO this is the war that should be fought out in the open through education of the masses (the same way the civil rights movement worked). if there is to be a revolution it needs to be in public opinion and we have started to see this with weed. the problem is that it is needed for all drugs and not just weed. once people are informed then they become more powerful. people can stage protests on a large scale and finally end the "war on drugs" that has intruded on our lives and wasted our money.

beyond the ideological battle, which is the most crucial, there are the actions in direct disobedience to the law. in the case of drugs i don't see a widespread act of civil disobedience being effective. i look at meth when i think of this. meth has tons of decentralized producers, much like would be created if all of this information were more widely available. look how fast legislation has worked to combat that. do not forget that the government still sees all drugs as equal. i mean people to this day think LSD causes the hallucinations that cartoons and movies show and people to commit crazy murders. so yes the market could be flooded by the dissemination of information on production on a wide scale, but long term would that achieve anything? or would this  lead to new legislation, harsher sentences, increased police activity, more watched chemicals, and more headaches all around?

this has been an ongoing internal debate for me. i believe security to be paramount and limiting access to information, but the dream of a world with more freedom is such a pleasing thought. hopefully we can see some good change in our lifetime.

no_dream

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 05:51:00 PM »
Disable any IP logging on the site would be helpful too.

flush_it

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 07:00:56 AM »
i know im alittle off topic but where the fuck do i get a downloadable copy of this and the collective for when them dea fuckers shut our homes down and burn them ...

Baba_McKensey

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2012, 03:24:46 PM »
I have an idea.  Don't act like you're doing anything illegal.

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2013, 01:56:09 PM »
Security through obscurity is not security at all. There's no real benefit to keeping the site secret, not at this point, at least.

Ultimately the entire point of a forum like this is to come up with new ways of making substances to disseminate to the masses to undermine the feasibility of the Drug War. Of course, it's unwise to attempt to do this through divulging sources, or syntheses that require precursors that are easily controlled. But otherwise, go wild.
Someone Who Is Me

zgoat65

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2013, 06:00:55 PM »
An observation that i have made from being a member of various for a is that 90% of new membership are those that are looking for the "secret" to making meth out of household chemicals.  The rest are people that wanna know why they can't get meth from gup chucking pillz into an SnB .  Once they realize that you can'tt make meth in a fish tank filled with gun bluing, ammonia, and charcoal they give up their fantasy of being Heisenburg.  There is a small percent (like me) that may have come for similar reasons, but saw chemistry and realized that THAT was what they were really after.  I dream about dreaming.  I think about it when I'm not dreaming or dreaming about dreaming. 

I say all that to say that if this site were made as public as DF or pnaut, then much of the stimulating discussion would bee lost to the answering of stupid questions from people that are no more than curious.  Just look at DF. 
If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2013, 06:21:33 PM »
Yep, this site strikes the right balance. It's definitely for the best to require registration to see the boards. But it's also for the best that registration is open. It's amazing how rare it is for a problem poster to roll through here, considering that it's also one of the more active boards. It probably helps that much of the pre-existing posts discuss chemistry in a more serious light, and there's not much casual talk - about drug use, or really anything. It's not an inviting environment for the clowntrolls.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2013, 06:23:18 PM by Assyl Fartrate »
Someone Who Is Me

hawaiianpunch

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2013, 11:11:23 PM »
... rare it is for a problem poster... posts discuss chemistry in a more serious light

yeah, what happened to jon?

Assyl Fartrate

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2013, 12:09:51 AM »
Jon is one of the best chemists Assyl has ever seen on these boards, going all the way back to the days of the Hive. He's wild, sure, but it's his style, nothing wrong with that.
Someone Who Is Me

hawaiianpunch

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2013, 09:42:33 PM »
not surprised to hear you say that

uchiacon

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2013, 12:51:29 AM »
Tor would make this site virtually unusable for anyone who doesn't have quick fibre broadband. This would be very cruel :(

I think the best thing to do would be move the hosting to someplace like a liberal european country. Surely it wouldn't cost too much more?

There is a lot of speculation here about what the DEA and etc do with info on this site... plan for the worst etc etc but it would be nice to dig up any info on LE use of these types of websites.


zgoat65

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 02:35:15 AM »
LE can't do anything with the information alone.  There has to be more than hearsay before action can bee taken. 

Take that one aldehyde that noone likes to mention by name, for instance.  I have read more than three forensic reports that define the beckman/hoffman as the rxn, and the aldehyde as the precursor that was used to make mda. 

And yet this aldehyde can still bee imported with impunity, even to the US.  And these rxns have been discussed at length on other forums that are way less private than this one.  Like top of the google search when mda is typed in the search field.  Still unlisted.  Still available for purchase with no limits or questions.
If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.
If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life

uchiacon

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2013, 05:24:43 AM »
Get in quick  ;D

Maybe DEA is simply quite happy to keep this stuff available so there's still an element to justify their existence, still someone to catch; probably one of the reasons they've shown no protest to these types of websites  ::)

How many years was the pseudo -> meth route around for? How long did it take them to finally ban pseudoephedrine? We can probably expect the same time span until scheduling, probably longer (MDA isn't anywhere as near as popular as meth/MDMA and methylations are still difficult)

Same with saf, that took quite a few years of it being found in labs for it to be scheduled?

People are still getting around these bans as well. I just found a relatively OTC source for piperonal but with that unscheduled aldehyde still around (and a relatively plausible methylation involving benzaldehyde) and no need for EtNO2 in the synthesis, why fuck around with piperonal (other than for personal enjoyment  ;D)

I can only conclude that LE uses these websites less than we assume. But we should always plan for the worst possible eventualities. Just like a bridge must be strengthened to hold a maximum of a maximum of cars at peak of peak traffic and then some. It is the way of the engineer  ;)

carl_nnabis

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Re: Keeping us off the radar
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 12:28:40 PM »
Its not like that aldehyde was unknown, that really not the reason, its more that now somebody put effort into making some write-up which is mostly OTC and seems feasible written in simple language even for the average idiot...
Similiar to (i guess it was like this at least) all the write-ups and mentions of sassafras/safrole at the hive got this stuff to get banned dont you think so?
Ill quote shulgin from pihkal to make clear what i mean:
Quote
There are about twenty different synthetic routes in the literature for the preparation of MDA. Many start with piperonal, and employ it to make methylenedioxyphenylacetone or a methylenedioxydihydro-cinnamic acid amide instead of the nitrostyrene. The phenylacetone can be reduced in several ways other than the cyanoborohydride method mentioned here, and the amide can be rearranged directly to MDA.

And whats currently happening, that scary stuff with people selling syntheses and stuff, faciliates this probably a lot.
Then it will come to situations where ten people who think "wow thats easy, im going to cook some xtc!" after they saw such a writeup, buy that precursor and only one out of that ten actually makes it to some product, the other nine only contribute to drying the sources out   :-X
"It's like the drug trip I saw when I was on that drug trip!"