(Hive Bee)
11-08-01 11:01
No 234521
I notice all the repetition of of where do I get Y OTC, cant get it OTC how can I make Y form X, cant get X, how do I make X from Z, etc, posts. Perhaps we should make a flowchart of all the commonly needed reactants and general chems, showing the "food chain" of reagent/precurs synthesis, not just for those who live on the moon or actually like medieval chemistry, but to give a general overview so one could get a picture of how far back they would theoretically need or be able to go to acquire the necessary materials for a given rxn. Would also illustrate the futility of the laws which oppress us.
No one should need to make EVERYTHING from animals, vegetables and minerals(literally), but it would be nice to see that it IS possible, and to give a quick ref if one suddenly gets cut off from their source of something.
i.e.: MeNh3--hexamine--formaldehyde--hoofs
With branches for the HCl from H2 and Cl from H20 and NaCl sol'n electrolysis...etc
(Hive Bee)
11-08-01 11:08
No 234523
It could serve a double-purpose, discouraging the unmotivated right from the start, be seeming futile. Some might think this a good idea, some might think it bad. Who knows?
PrimoPyro
Vivent Longtemps la Ruche! STRIKE For President!
(Distinctive Doe)
11-08-01 11:19
No 234524
NO Way
Make them search and earn their wings
Do Your Part To Win The War
(Hive Bee)
11-08-01 14:17
No 234547
By not having all the info right at hand, it makes them read. By reading, they would be forced to obtain at least some information. Best not to have all the resources in one pot. Although things such as the Project Blackbook thread was very useful for a newbie.
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Murphy's Law
(Stranger)
11-10-01 07:00
No 235085
make them search and earn their wings? hell with that! in a war of attrition you need as many resources as possible. and if there were a handy dandy list of some sort to list the shit you need to make the controlled shit you need to make the controlled shit you eat. just cause you're giving somebody a list of sources doesnt mean they'll know what the fuck to do with them once they aquire em- they'll still have to read but for those of use who have a pretty good idea of what we're doing but are having trouble finding local sources of um stuff, it would be invaluable, not to mention demoralize our opponents when they see what they're up against, not to mention the fact it would really cut down on the number of repeat posts on the same topic. hell we could probably ditch the acquisition forum altogether if the list were comprehensive enough
if i cant make it i wont take it
(Hive Bee)
11-10-01 16:09
No 235194
WOW.
Congratulations, Mr.Hillbilly.
Your post is credited with changing my perspective on this topic. I nolonger believe such a table would be useful to "us bees" anymore.
Too many trivial reasons to list why. They are the same ones I took into consideration before, but now they are more important than the pros I thought of associated with such a table. foxy2, I couldnt agree more...
PrimoPyro
Vivent Longtemps la Ruche! STRIKE For President!
(Happy Chappie)
11-10-01 16:47
No 235195
negativity from the masses!!!!!
If we was too set out to produce this type of information it would bee a credit for all the bees who work their shagging socks off in the name of research, we SHOULD produce this reference BUT somehow have it passworded and any newbees who want the reference should bee asked questions or sit a little test produced by our peers!this way we will have people researching and allowing information to sink in and allowing the more advanced in the crowd to gain the information required when precursors fall from their grasp. I know for a fact that the backroom message service has more interesting discussions going on than the front of house forums and this information would literally blow the precursors we need into ours hands, so i lay the gauntlet down for the hive!
should we do it or not?
phew i made up for not being on the hive for a while and i am attracting flames by the load full but oh well im still smiling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Talk to me munky.
Munky.
Talk to me!
(Hive Bee)
11-10-01 21:12
No 235242
you don't want dope falling out of trees killing people do you? If anything i would say publishing a bogus list would make more sense, get rid of the idiots fucking up good sources with dumbassed questions like "what is the safrole content of you sassafras oil" and other generally indictable aquisition techniques.
there is a reason why chemistry nomenclature takes awhile to get your head around, it excludes the laymen who lack perserverance, and determination.
If anything i consider the aquisition of that information to be an initiation. Want it. Work for it. Simple.
7.10.01
(Chief Bee)
11-11-01 00:30
No 235292
The more complete, detailed precursor syntheses (preferably with references) that I get to my page, the better it is.
In the end, I want no route to our desired compounds to remain unpublished in detail on my page. It is destined to be a comprehensive chemical conversion treatise.
(Stranger)
11-12-01 06:56
No 235788
yeah.....listen to this rhodium person- i hear he/shes pretty smart. now if some persons dont want others to have info, sounds like they are scared that if the rest of the world figures out what they know then the world wont be beating down a path to thier door for the honey they make.
greed is a bad thing- should share with your fellow man and enlighten them to the ways of the honeymaker- never know- just might make a freind or 2 in the process in stead of being called a selfish cocksucker by everyone he/she's pissed off when he/she has flamed someone who was asking a legitamate question- with such a list- there wont be too much in the way of " where can i get?, what do i need to get? etc" far as people asking questions like what is the safrole content of essential oil of whateverthefuck , they are more than likely gonna get caught no matter how careful they think they are, and make good decoys from the real beez
as far as making the list avaliable to only those with a password, how freakin absurd is that? if i had a such a list i'd freakin mass email it to the entire world
now lemme get my extinguisher handy cause i know someones gonna have some weak attempt at flaming me
hell if anything i say that we have ALL the members of the hive vote on the subject- and go by the results. thats the fair way right?
if i cant make it i wont take it
(Stoni's sexual toy)
11-12-01 08:22
No 235803
Nope. We aren't a democracy. The admin votes count more than all the moderator and bee votes together
(Hive Bee)
11-12-01 22:34
No 235948
I don't think having all the good stuff archived on one site is a bad thing. It's still different from a chart of all the possible routes from dog food/cat litter to psychoactive compound XYZ. I'm positive there would be people asking things already asked and answered in either case.
And Bored hillbilly, I sincerely recommend you to draw your own charts with pictures of molecules! It's all good and helps visualizing things A LOT. And call people elitists all you want because in the end it'll be YOU who suffers most from avoiding to find out things on your own. Studying pays off. It could even relieve your boredom
.Now, excuse me for the rant, but I can't help it!
understanding is everything
(Hive Bee)
11-13-01 01:58
No 236057
I know that I like the idea so much Im going to
start a little web page on it. I dont know how
good it's going to bee but I will at least try.
I figure If i go through a lot of the synths I
will bump into plenty of ways to make differnet
compunds. Actually I have been meaning to make
something for quite sometime. I have movie Production
equipment... everything needed to film rxn's and
make video's on how to make Meth or something reasonably
simple. I also have a microscope tht is hooked to a
digital video camera. We can get closeups of things too..
bees can check out the exact crystal structure of differnet
salts. Ya'll know how differnet compunds prefer different
angles and all... Oh well... When I get some time I guess.
Gott Mit Uns!
(Stranger)
11-13-01 07:03
No 236144
i never said i wanted to avoid studying- knowledge is power
been studying for quite some time- still dont feel ready for my intended plans as of yet, as i'm looking into the black pepper soloution, which i never would have found if i didnt do some studying and ask the right questions.
but a list would make for a tremendous time saver, not to mention give some of us non-administration types a step in the right direction when we become confused
if i cant make it i wont take it
(Hive Bee)
11-13-01 08:08
No 236160
I know that I like the idea so much Im going to
start a little web page on it. I dont know how
good it's going to bee but I will at least try.
I figure If i go through a lot of the synths I
will bump into plenty of ways to make differnet
compunds. Actually I have been meaning to make
something for quite sometime. I have movie Production
equipment... everything needed to film rxn's and
make video's on how to make Meth or something reasonably
simple. I also have a microscope tht is hooked to a
digital video camera. We can get closeups of things too..
bees can check out the exact crystal structure of differnet
salts. Ya'll know how differnet compunds prefer different
angles and all... Oh well... When I get some time I guess.
------------------------------------------------ -------- -------- -------- --------
Gott Mit Uns!
that sounds like a great plan man
make at least 6 hours of tape (keep them in the closet, next to your skates)
really, and get some scenes with the Pimp your score all of your gear off of and
throw in some spicy footage of drug frenzied orgies with underage neighborhood ho's while you are at it for balance
(Distinctive Doe)
11-13-01 09:59
No 236179
synth's yes post as many as possible!!!
i want a water, piss and sand to Honey synthesis
This is much different than posting sources.
And posting "Simple" methods results in the end of those methods, see RP/I
Do Your Part To Win The War
(Stranger)
11-13-01 10:34
No 236193
hell id buy that tape for the orgy footage alone
if i cant make it i wont take it
(Hive Bee)
11-14-01 14:10
No 236640
Leave well enough alone! Please
(Stranger)
11-19-01 13:35
No 238366
was a database ever started or discovered?
read ch4x0rzine @ packetstormsecurity.org
(Commodore "Mole Bouncer")
11-20-01 15:42
No 238769
one of the things about learning this feild incrementally, is that you also pick up some do and don't along the way, saftey, reflexs to deal with runaways etc. Also learning some of it by your own devices you pick-up alot of supplementary stuff that probably would'nt show up on this flowchart.
Just think after a herd of newbees go off exploding hydrogenators, burning down thier houses, gassing thier families etc. what kind of fallout the rest would be subject to.
And to simply put caveats at the front isn't enough, because everyone thinks they don't apply to them. Fire applies to everyone. As it is i wouldn't be surprised to hear that lots bees who have thier wings are operating without adequate provision for safety, ei no fire extinguisher to hand, no fume hood.
I agree the word should be spread, wide and far. I don't know about handing out keys to the pearly gates tho. But as Osmium makes clear our opinions are of little consequence, rendering our discussions on the topic moot.
"All those memories lost like rain..."
(Distinctive Doe)
11-21-01 16:01
No 239099
Shit all this stuff is right here at the HiveTM
And RhodiumTM
If you can't search and read then you don't deserve to fly.
Beez should earn their wings. And Antibody is 100% correct on safety!!!
Wouldn't it bee fun to go to jail and burn your house down, all because you don't have a fire extinguisher and bucket of water on hand?
Do Your Part To Win The War
(Hive Bee)
11-22-01 01:55
No 239230
I must admit I'm somewhat split in this debate.
On one hand I believe that all information should be free,
and that having this "list" would allow us to prosper in the
face of oppression.
On the otherhand, however, I feel that there would be a
large amount of people that would be doing it "ghetto"
style, and can't be bothered putting in the effort to make
good product.
If someone can't be bothered to find out how to get/make
a precursor, then what makes us think they'll be bothered
to make the product well/fit for consumption. As I've said
before, this is stuff that people will be putting into
their BODIES!
However, there does seem to be a need for a larger amount
of information regarding various precursor synthesis for
those who would benefit from it.
Perhaps if these synthesis did not state the specific
OTC source that is required, but rather let ppl find it
for themselves, this could work as a "filter" for the
undesirables.
Having said that, no world is free from undesirables, and
there are many out there who are willing to put in the
effort, but can't be buggered creating satisfactory
product. Moreover, there are those that can't be bothered
researching, but want to make everything nice 'n' clean.
Ponderously yours,
Encopo.
Don't mind me. I'm mentally ill.
(Hive Bee)
11-22-01 04:26
No 239263
My local university library already has such a database - it's collectively called the "chemistry abstracts" . . .
But seriously, as good as that sounds, isn't such a document going to be the size of the federal tax code? There are so many ways to make different compounds, and novel syntheses are being developed all the time. Maintaining a database like that sounds like it would be a full-time job . . . actually, now that I think about it, send me an application :)
(Distinctive Doe)
11-24-01 03:01
No 239829
Maintaining a database like that sounds like it would be a full-time job . . .
Why don't you ask Rhodium
Or maybee you should THANK Rhodium!
Do Your Part To Win The War
(Chief Bee)
11-24-01 13:01
No 239968
Yeah, right.
I already have a few full time jobs - The Hive, my archive, school and my social life.
(Stranger)
11-26-01 04:13
No 240560
I think newbees would benefit more from a comprehensive database of lab safety, proper lab technique, proper use of equipment, and cleaning of equipment. We could even through in a quick reference of the IUPAC naming system and the functional groups at no extra charge.
106
(Distinctive Doe)
11-26-01 05:36
No 240592
unnilhexium/newbee's
This thread Post 181182 (LaBTop: "Professional Chemistry Links", Methods Discourse) will have links to sites that answer ALL of those questions, just look. I would suggest looking first at the sites LabTop commented favorably on.
Also you should buy one of the recomended lab techniques books that are mentioned if you UTFSE.
Do Your Part To Win The War
(Hive Addict)
11-26-01 11:22
No 240701
"Make them search and earn their wings"
Kind of like earning your red wings; It's tough, messy work, but when it's done you get a feeling of satisfaction.
Split a piece of wood and I am there. Lift a stone and you will find me.
(Newbee)
11-27-01 09:21
No 241158
lab safety is a must,id definately be receptive of some lab technique 101 lessons. id prefer to do things the right way, the first time, as a person who is cheap as i am hates wasted money chemicals effort and time.and if you'd include a lot of safety adivice and how to control runaways on the various synths discussed on here. perhaps a lotta newbees like myself wouldnt be popping up in the news due to something getting out of control and exploding cause he didnt know the saftey precautions
if i cant make it i wont take it