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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
08-28-02 10:57
No 350142
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1hr
Waterless, 70%!
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1 Hour Waterless 4 Busy Beez
This information is strictly for enterainment and educational
purposes. Do not attempt this procedure.
This is a very simple streamlined waterless a/b extraction, it has worked
(only in dreams) so far on Generic and Name Brand, 30mg Red Hots, 60mg +
Trips., 60mg + Chlorphen. It has not been tested on 120mg or 240mg Time
Released, nor has it been tested on Ephedrine + Goofy Gas Station Tabs.
So far 70% yields of clean workable Pfed Freebase Crystals have
been the norm. Doubtless, tweaking and refinement are needed. Crystals
extracted have so far reacted, with no snags. The main disadvantge is
lots of solvent boiling.
Thanks to Geezmiester and VideoEditor's recent work for obvious
reasons.
1. Thoroughly Pulverize Pills
2. Add 1 gram of Plain Table Salt for every box of Gups used. This is
an attempt to absorb any latent moisture.
3. Boil Gups in large volume of (Dry)Acetone, 3-4 cm standing over
surface of gups. Vigorously boil for 30 seconds, stirring at all
times. When complete, allow to stand 3 minutes, decant Acetone. Repeat
3 times.
4. Add a volume of Isopropyl Alcohol (popular automotive brand,
straight from bottle). Bring Iso/gups to a rolling boil, stir like Hell.
5. Once Iso has begun to evaporate remove from heat, and conitinue
stirring. Very slowly, while Iso volume is reducing, add powderized Lye
until, gups takes on a yellowish tinge (approx. 1g per box).
Intermittitant heat will need to be applied gently, during this
process. Do not stop stirring at any time.
6. Continue evaporating Iso, until gups are a dry grainy dough,
slightly moist with Iso.
7. Add a large volume of (Dry)VM&P Naptha, using stir rod or
similar device, gently break up gups dough in Naptha.
8. Bring Naptha/gups to a boil for 30 seconds, filter Naptha into
clean flask while hot. 'Charming' filters work well, have 2 or 3 prepared, in
case filter clogs, while decanting. Repeat 2 or 3 times.
9. Freebase Pfed crystals will form as Naptha cools.
Optionally, mineral turps, and/or Non-Polar Solvent boils may be added prior
to basifying. So far these have not been required.
When
Boiling Solvents Use Proper Safety Procedures, Work in a well ventilated
area. Do not use an open flame! Have Fire Control Equipment in arms reach!
Use lowest heat possible! The Author knows first hand how easily hot solvents
ignite, be warned!
1 box, 1.4g
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Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
08-28-02 13:07
No 350167
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>
2. Add 1 gram of Plain Table Salt for every ...
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> 2. Add 1 gram of Plain Table Salt for every box of Gups
> used. This is an attempt to absorb any latent moisture.
In that case wouldn't dried Na2SO4 or Mg2SO4 work better/requiring less inert
weight to be added?
I'm not
fat just horizontally disproportionate.
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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
08-28-02 13:19
No 350171
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epsoms
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Osmium,
Don't see why not, Table Salt was added with first try in basifying gups this
way, because it was handy, all seemed to work well, so the ritual was
continued, its likely be wholly unnecessary, in reality. Particularly if
solvents are dry. But since swim hasn't extracted without it, it wasn't
excluded from the post.
Iä-R'lyeh!
Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
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geezmeister
(Hive Addict)
08-28-02 13:43
No 350177
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details?
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SWIG is particularly interested in the details on the yield calculation. If
you got 70% of the available pseudo in the freebase form you just cracked the
sixty percent wall on the waterless method. What part of the technique did
that?
SWIG thinks boiling the GUPs in alcohol before basing, then evaporating off
the alcohol, might be the key. He assumes the sixty percent waterless a/b
yield limit is related to the inherent problem of getting the base into
contact with the salt on the pseudo molecule-- and the dry process is just
not that efficient. Wet processes--including alcohol processes--are more
efficient at basing but also pull unwanted contaminants. Boiling the GUPs in
an excess of dry ISO alcohol prior to basing would extract a good chunk of
the pseudo HCl into the alcohol. You base the dissolved pseudo in the
alcohol. The excess alcohol does not interfere with the a/b extraction
because is it first evaporated. That may explain the increase in yield. The
crystals certainly look like the ones from VE's process.
You do not mention extracting any pseudo HCl from the naptha. There may be
more pseudo than the seventy percent here, not yet nabbed. The HCl form may
be contaminated, though. SWIG noticed this on a VE extraction with the pseudo
HCL obtained by titrating the naptha. One batch had what appeared to be PEG
that could have sneaked across with some excess moisture in the carbon.
SWIG said with the white 60's with tripolidine, one acetone boil should shed
the antihistamine. He did not grasp the purpose behind the three acetone
boils, but he is a bit dense. With povidone in the white sixties, SWIG would
likely do a turps presoak. If PEG was present, a xylene soak should be
considered. This should work with the 120's and 240's if the acetone and
alcohol are really dry. If either contains moisture, you will have PEG in the
pseudo.
He suggests the use of corn starch in this process while boiling down the
alcohol. It will make for a more stirrable, less lumpy paste.
You may also want to avoid non-polars which are better solvents than naptha.
Part of the clean in the VE method is naptha's characteristic
"laziness" as a solvent. Part of the technique is the purifying
aspects of crystal formation.
Of
counsel. On Tuesdays.
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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
08-28-02 14:43
No 350186
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the
60% barrier
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Geez,
Swim believes just that, the primary problem with waterless a/b's
seems to be inefficiant basification. Swim decided to try basifying in
this manner on a whim, and was curious what effect it would have. Low and
behold! Swim nearly shit his pants, and was skeptical as to how the fb would
react. Then after a test nano, cool no trouble good stuff! Swim,
acetone boils, antihist removal, and because swim read in this forum, boiling
acetone breaks down povidone, somewhere. That is why 'turps was mentioned but
not included, it didn't seem to make a difference. Swim, calculated yields by
removing crystals via freezout, and evaporating remaining np, crystals
collected crystals were dissolved in a very small volume on naptha, and
re-froze. Swim is planning to just evap the naptha, on the current
batch, perhaps a hot water wash or two on NP, and see what turns up. Swim is
preparing to trial run the infamous 120s, but is confident they will be no
prob.
Iä-R'lyeh!
Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
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BenWiFFen
(Line Monitor)
08-28-02 15:49
No 350203
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Thanks
for the..
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short and to the point methoid. This one i'll try. Good JOB I'll say.
What
good is your ride without a FAT gear box ???
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geezmeister
(Hive Addict)
08-29-02 07:06
No 350394
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don't
waste naptha by evaporating
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Don't waste time and naptha by evaporating naptha. Wash it and dry it if you
want, and reuse it. Why not? It may get too dirty after a few tries, but Geez
has a hunch that that ten dollar gallon of VM&P Naptha will stand some
washing and drying wihtout deleterious effect. The pseudo that stays in
solution in the naptha should mean you will have a higher yield the second
time you use the naptha for this purpose-- because the naptha already holds
what pseduo it can hold at room temperature.
If you evaporate the naptha to get pseudo, you concentrate the trash and
toxins that might be in solution with the pseudo. Any gakk that is alcohol
extracted has a good chance of coming over. Evaporating the naptha is
not a particularly useful step as far keeping the pseudo clean.
Of
counsel. On Tuesdays.
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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
08-29-02 10:31
No 350421
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evap
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Yup you are surely right geez, swim wasn't using his thinking cap, probably
best. Swim has ran several additional small batches, thus far, and
picked up some PEG, hasn't seemed to be to bad, but a xylene boil will be
added on the next run.
Iä-R'lyeh!
Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
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dwarfer
(Hive Addict)
08-29-02 13:40
No 350456
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boiling
solvents, and salt
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Good for Geezer to suggest saving the air..
I've seen a couple of threads specifying salt as a
"dryer" or "to help grind the material"...
I've not noted salt to be deliquescent to any
significant degree (as noted by my good buddy
and personal hero gluefingers Mc.Osmium earlier),
and as a grinder-additive (another thread)
it fractures way to easily as a salt,
and does nothing in solution,
to qualify it as an abrasive worthy of note..
If the salt does anything in this capacity
to promote the process,
it could be to tie up the poly-plastic-ampholytes
during the basing procedure.
("Salti, da Wonder Dawg series dealt with this last year.)
At the risk of becoming too shrill on the matter,
but in the interest of safety,
I am motivated to note for anyone who cares,
that many of these flammable liquid protocols,
if carried out in a sealed pipe,
would be both more effective,
and significantly safer..
===============
Despite my puerile meanderings.
 nice post
dwarfer
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geezmeister
(Hive Addict)
08-29-02 14:11
No 350463
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xylene
soaks
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A xylene soak should be sufficient to rid the GUPs of PEG. Get that
out first and the little water present in the alcohols will not present PEG
extraction problems. Boiling the xylene is not necessary, is hazardous, and
on a still day could lead law enforcement's nose to your door. Is the time
savings really that important?
SWIG has not found any PEG thus far in the freebase crystals from the VE
method. He did find it in some pseudo he obtained by titration; he attributed
it to the moisture present in his carbon at the outset. Have your tried the
activated carbon yet? It should work as well with the alcohol as it does with
the acetone. You could incorporate it in the filter (VE did this while
working up his technique post for a time and Scottydog has worked with carbon
in the filter funnel. You might touch base with them about their experiences
in that regard.
The salt was added with the NaOH when it was ground to powder. Grind NaOH by
itself, pour the powder out, and you will notice the part of it that
contained moisture. The salt was included in the NaOH powedering step to
counter the presence of this moisture-- and at the time one of the things VE
was working on was keeping the technique as waterless as possible. If
you are not powdering lye at this time--and you are not-- and with the liquid
basing process you do not need to-- the salt is surplus.
Big D's reminder about acetone and the PP/ss reminds me of my need to visit
the next town over where the hardware man is considerably more helpful. If
they have none of the coveted cheapo stirrers, my mothers' uncles' sister's
father's girlfriend will pm you her cousin's address. Or you could just mail
one to my wife. She paints. (Yes, she paints the town, too, but she paints
with paint as well as with our reputations. Tarnished and proud of it!)
Time flies when your are having fun tweaking. Or just having fun.
Of
counsel. On Tuesdays.
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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
08-29-02 15:54
No 350500
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swims
salt
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swim has came to agree, with all on the salt, being useless 'as is'. swim did
indeed first grind his salt with lye, thinking it would more thoroughly
distribute the lye. but opted out on the adding the resulting mixture at the
last minute, the first time he tried this, it all just looked so wet, just a
mental block swim supposes. swim is thinking about some hot h2o washes
on the hot naptha, in addition, is it worth the effort? maybe self defeating.
Swim will first add some dry epsoms, before moving to the activated carbon,
swim for some reason feels the carbon's fissured and even possibly porous
nature could actually trap some product, but that may be a completely false
assumption. Swims also questioned fresh from the bottle iso, being
consistantly dry. + no more naptha evaps, that may be where peg came in.
So tonight, in a dream swim will:
30mgx96c red hots well soaked in xy
work em as usual, with laxative to keep'em dry
based well in iso, with a sprinkle of lye
and extracted in naptha as easy as pie,
out pops shiny crystals , a treat to the eye!
Dwarfer, swims got a cool fume extractor, made from a 2 ltr pop bottle,
garden hose 5 gal bucket, and an old vac, pump. hmmm. maybe outta write
that up. Easily removes pesky solvent fumes and deposits them drain wise.
Including those from very small birch reactions. Swim remembers your
salti-dog and was just thinking about it the other day. Swim may still have a
copy of your zonez post, but swim didn't fully understand it, maybe a little
salt to add some savor, wouldn't hurt after all.
and
little cthulhujr, slinks back under the rock, from whence he came
Iä-R'lyeh!
Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
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VideoEditor
(Hive Bee)
08-29-02 20:02
No 350582
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Salt
Salt Salt
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Might as well put SWIVE'S salty two cents in. SWIVE once noticed on a humid
day that a pile NaOH ground with salt did not turn into a wet mess nearly as
fast as a pile of plain NaOH. So he started adding it to the grinder and his
powdery mixtures seem to stay dryer in humidity. Just a visual observation,
not scientific fact.
Real
Men Don't Preview Their Edits
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Scottydog
(Hive Bee)
08-30-02 04:46
No 350665
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Box
fans
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In response to:
__________________________________________
"Dwarfer, swims got a cool fume extractor, made from a 2 ltr pop bottle,
garden hose 5 gal bucket, and an old vac, pump. hmmm. maybe outta write that
up."
__________________________________________
Excellent Cthulhujr! Innovation in action... Honestly if a newbee theoretically
were to have access to any room with a window. Basement, bedroom, kitchen...
Shed? A box fan pushing air to the outside (Turned up to 3 + NIOSH
insecticide/ paint mask) should provide ample protection from noxious vapors.
Keep the work space door open a foot or two for incoming draft...
One room for mixing, turkey baster syphoning, titration etc. An adjoining
room for "Kerplunking." Hypothetically spending only as much time
as is necessary in Kerplunking room to get the job done. Hot plates are mobile
and can be placed near any window.
Box fans make short work of Xyl and Tol fumes when boiling off small traces
of NP in water evaps as well. (waterless a/b)
God bless the box fan.
___________
Refuse/Resist
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cthulhujr
(Hive Bee)
09-02-02 10:29
No 351854
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addition
to method
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The xylene pre-soak, and titriating the fb crystals in fresh NP made
all the difference, yields are still strong, with nary a trace of peg!
Swim just dreamed 5x96ct red hots, max yield of 14.4g pfed hcl, fb
crystals were 'froze out' of naptha filtered and dissolved in fresh xylene,
titriation yielded 10.3g pfed hcl(71%), this does not include recovery of any
additional product from naptha! Swim dreamed about a nice 8hr reflux of
these crystals with some other stuff, and what a beautiful dream it was!
Iä-R'lyeh!
Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
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