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	Posts 1 - 28 of 28	Subject: An ounce of prevention...?

	Stan_desCline (Stranger) 08-01-02 00:43 No 339712		An ounce of prevention...?	Bookmark Reply
			A not friend of Stan does this: Grind 24 generic pseudo/triprolidine tabs to superfine powder in coffee grinder. Place in jar and add approximately 250ml acetone and let sit for four hours. Discard acetone. Repeat. Allow pill powder to dry completely, then add approximately 250ml everclear and 1 teaspoon of lye. Let sit four hours. Pour off liquid through three coffee filters. Add another 250ml everclear to powder, let sit four hours, and pour off and filter again. Discard pill powder. Dry everclear/lye/pill mixture thoroughly and add 250ml acetone and let sit four hours. Pour off and filter. Repeat. Discard anything that did not dissolve. dry acetone in a glass dish. Scrape up the crystals. They will look like glass needles. This is the finest looking pseudo FB Stan has ever seen, and he has been cooking dope since 1988! Completely clear and from 24 pills my not friend gets back 1 gram, sometimes 1.1!!
	bee186 (Stranger) 08-01-02 04:09 No 339779		Stan, I like your post.	Bookmark Reply
			Stan, I like your post. *shakes Stans front leg - ntmy* So, Acetone wash; acetone wash; alcohol extraction & basification with NaOH; acetone EXTRACTION of the now pseudoephedrine freebase. Afterwards add HCl solution to form the hydrogen chloride from the pseudoephedrine freebase. Alternatively H2SO4 solution if the pseudoephedrine sulphate form is required of the peudoephedrine freebase. Is that OK? I was confused for a moment, I thought you had magic acetone or something! EDIT: Stan sorry if this is asking the obvious to the rest, but could you please state for me the theoretical 100% yield the 1-1.1gm actual yield was a part of for me? I'm thick as a brick you see, so!
	hi_kid (Stranger) 08-01-02 08:02 No 339815		24 generic pseudo/triprolidine tabs	Bookmark Reply
			bee186, from what i've seen talked about at the hive,24 generic pseudo/triprolidine tabs would be 24 @ 60mg =1.44 g.
	KIDROCK (Stranger) 08-01-02 11:32 No 339853		It's oh so ever clear	Bookmark Reply
			yo, stan the man in the clan, really dig the name how did the no friend dry the clear/lye/powder mixture? you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-01-02 13:04 No 339895		helpful information	Bookmark Reply
			This technique raises some questions. A listing of the ingredients on the box would be very helpful here. There are several generic white 60's with tripolidine. SWIG is familiar with four different generic formulations of this product. Each has a slightly different formulation. The description of "needle-like crystals" sounds like pseudo HCl crystals that form with slow evaporation or with recrystalization. This process should not yield HCl crystals. The information gives no indication of how much moisture may have been present in the acetone. I assume there was at least 12.5 ml of H2O in each of the 250 ml volumes of EtOH. If the acetone was not dried carefully, and the generic source was the type sold at the big WW stores, the needle-like crystals likely contain PEG. A "needle-like" crystal formation will appear on the evaporation of a PEG-contaminated alcohol extraction of pseudo HCL. This looks very much like clean, pure pseudo. I strongly suspect there may also be some lye contributing to the crystals forming. I am curious as to whether anyone reacted this pseudo in their daydreams or fantasies, and what type of result was obtained. The four hour soaks in EtOH serve no apparent purpose, nor do the four hour soaks in Acetone. It is possible that this method may work with one of the generics--- the information provided with the post does not supply the data needed to determine that, and the usefulness of the post is limited because of that omission. I am not certain that I wish to rely on the estimation of the cleanliness of the resulting product without more information. SWIG has been known to be very certain he was right about a crystal formation being clean pseudo, and was very positive about it, and actually dead wrong on the very point before That makes him skeptical now. He'd be curious as to what happened with the addition of anhydrous ISO alcohol to the crystals. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.
	Stan_desCline (Stranger) 08-01-02 14:10 No 339917		answers	Bookmark Reply
			Apparently, pseudo FB is soluble in acetone where HCl is not. The first acetone washes before basification theoretically remove everything that is acetone soluble so that the after-basing pulls only bring back goodies. Tried this once with heet in place of everclear and 'tone pulls resulted in some kind of yellow oil covering the crystals, but that was solved by placing xtals between two sheets of construction paper and putting a book on top. The oil soaked in to the paper, crystals as clean as ever. To my knowledge, it works with every generic actifed brand. For fun, I take a pinhead size amount and taste. They are so bitter they will gag you. No lye taste or saltiness. The powder that is left over after drying the everclear/lye mixture tastes strongly of both lye and salt. I dont know if the full four hours is necessary on all the soaks, but I dont want to fuck with a good thing. The acetone is always from a new can "100% pure" wally world. Everything is dried in a pyrex plate in the garage with an 8" fan about two feet away. Anyone else have any input? I suffer from reverse paranoia. I think everyone is out to help me.
	zibarium (Naked) 08-01-02 15:27 No 339938		did you run w/ it?	Bookmark Reply
			it would bee swell to know if it worked , or how it worked in a rxn? and if you went w/ the fb crystals, or made the salt? sounds cool. swiz too has seen gorgeous crystals of gakk. and only seen the fb as a flat box type...which ain't to say it hasn't got lots of other looks. but the good news is in the final outcome. if there is one
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-01-02 15:34 No 339940		Wally world acetone	Bookmark Reply
			___________ "To my knowledge, it works with every generic actifed brand." ___________ Not to be critical, but do you mean to the best of your knowledge or you know from first hand experience with every such generic? There is a WORLD of difference between the two. Think about it. I am not trying to challenge your technique and I am not saying it does not work. How can I possibly tell from the post what your source of pseudoephedrine was? I cannot. How can I tell if your method worked with a particular fomulation of that product? I cannot.  SWIG's experience with such techniques--and such products-- gives him reason to question you on the point. SWIG has made statements in posts before he had to retract when he discovered they were incorrect. I am familiar with the taste of Crow. I prefer it sauteed, over rice. I would prefer to be unfamiliar with it--- but have made broad assumptions before that later proved to be too broad. My point is that the post should be more detailed regarding the source. We should know by objective information what your actual experience is. And I am, in my own way, trying to help you avoid making some of the same mistakes I have in the past. Feel free to disagree, partiuclarly if you like crow. Also-- IMHO-- your brand of acetone usually needs to be dried before using it with pseudoephedrine or its derivatives. Particularly its derivatives. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.
	former_chemist (Hive Bee) 08-01-02 21:25 No 340090		MSDS on wally world acetone	Bookmark Reply
			The MSDS claims only 85% purity of acetone.
	hi_kid (Stranger) 08-01-02 22:20 No 340102		85% purity of acetone	Bookmark Reply
			what does the msds say about the other 15%? just water or something else than is just as bad or even worse than water? hell it might  be something that helps but i don't think so
	SaintCyril (Hive Bee) 08-01-02 22:42 No 340106		acetone impurities	Bookmark Reply
			acetone often has many heavy metal impurities, especailly the hardware store special. Cy We are the people that your parents warned you about.
	former_chemist (Hive Bee) 08-01-02 23:09 No 340117		Not listed	Bookmark Reply
			Wally world sells a variety of acetone. Second ingredient not listed so it is probably water.
	SaintCyril (Hive Bee) 08-01-02 23:18 No 340120		Reagent Grade Acetone Product Specifications: ...	Bookmark Reply
			Reagent Grade Acetone Product Specifications:  Appearance clear liquid Color scale <10 APHA Separat. techn. GC >99.5 % Water <0.5 % (K.F.) Solubility (in water) passes test Residue after evaporatio <0.001 % Trace analysis: Type: Cd measure < 0.05 ppm Type: Zn measure < 0.05 ppm Type: Mn measure < 0.05 ppm Type: Co measure < 0.05 ppm Type: Cu measure < 0.1 ppm Type: Pb measure < 0.1 ppm Type: Fe measure < 0.5 ppm Type: Mg measure < 0.1 ppm Titrable acid <0.0003 meq/g Titrable base <0.0006 meq/g Aldehyde (HCHO) <0.002 % Methanol <0.05 % KMnO4-reducing subst. passes test Additional info isopropyl alcohol: < 0.05% Cy We are the people that your parents warned you about.
	wareami (Hive Addict) 08-02-02 04:58 No 340183		Geezatone! :•þ	Bookmark Reply
			Bees would be wise to follow Geezmeisters past advice for which brands to choose when it comes to acetone! The Automotive Store varieties are much purer because of the solvency of the substances that the field uses and the ineffectiveness of the lesser pure brands on those substances! Most Actifool brand pseudo that the Kidz have run into are comprised of the povidone formulations! That is never to be said that all will be similar ! There just isn't any such thing as exact compositions within single brand/generic compositions! The povidone formulations are much easier to deal with than the drymatrix formulas! Who would have ever thought that bees would be staking those claims? Not Ibee that's for sure! Geezmeisters waterless a/b method would work well on most pills! Dwarfer's micro-fryolater and PP/SS systems also seem to be working on isolating the goods! The Egull is a quick easy method for dealing with the Pov compositions and also deals with the side active ingredients such as chloropheniramine and triprolidine that can be commonly found in the actifools and the aphid brands! Former_C: SWIC's knowledge is indispensible in these areas....Thanx! Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt ô¿ôWareami
	Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 08-04-02 07:11 No 341105		Put His Feet To The Fire, GM!!	Bookmark Reply
			I am not certain that I wish to rely on the estimation of the cleanliness of the resulting product without more information. SWIG has been known to be very certain he was right about a crystal formation being clean pseudo, and was very positive about it, and actually dead wrong on the very point before GM, You're not suggesting that any of us post (albeit innocently) misinformation, are you?  Yesterday I searched my old posts for a good laugh.  Jesus Christ, when formulating theories & style of procedure we sure can come up with some fucked up shit.  TooMuch is Just Enough... What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-04-02 09:16 No 341178		Like I said, the taste of crow....	Bookmark Reply
			Crow is much better, in my experience, without the feathers, and when sauteed in real butter, served with rice pilaf as a side dish. Have I been wrong before? Yes, and at the top of my lungs. Have I had to admit it before? Well, let's say I am a gourmet crow chef---by experience. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.
	zibarium (Naked) 08-04-02 10:56 No 341225		regarding otc acetone impurities:	Bookmark Reply
			might one assume that if their acetone evvapped from a clean glass vessal, and left no trace, that it was clean? or clean enough? dwarfer's "remove the red" method implied to swiz that water in 'tone was not really an issue; as not a trace of red would appear in solution until a few drops of H2O was added. or is another mechanism at work? pre-thanks, bees!
	former_chemist (Hive Bee) 08-04-02 13:58 No 341313		Depends on use	Bookmark Reply
			OTC acetone isn't nearly as pure as reagent grade acetone.  If you are doing a waterless A/B, then water (most common contaminant) will definitely screw it up.  When using wet acetone to remove red, too much water is a bad thing also. I think phenol and isopropyl alcohol are also contaminants in some acetone.  The evaporation test is only an indicator of solids or liquids (usual oils) which aren't volatile.  Plenty of stuff that could damage reactions will evaporate just fine.
	zibarium (Naked) 08-04-02 15:05 No 341344		the water in otc acetone?	Bookmark Reply
			former chemist; i mentioned the red removal scenario as an indicator of the presense of H2O in acetone. in dreams of the past, swiz would see absolutely NO evidence of water soluble colors entering the vessal of red things covered in hardware store acetone. and yet, the addition of a few drops of the universal solvent; and sure enough...bloody acetone. which led to my speculation on just how the water is tied up in non-lab grade acetone. or could it bee that, in the manufacturing of acetone, its just as easy to get it dry as not, and it all gets distributed from that point? like duf beer? and duf lite? and "ultra" gasoline?
	BenWiFFen (Line Monitor) 08-04-02 15:46 No 341367		Dreams	Bookmark Reply
			In a very resent dream 96 60 ml pills were tossed into used toulene. Then placed into a h20 bath with heat high enough to make bubble, mixing along the way. Used toulene must of had some acid in it. Let settle and poured through two coffey filters. Then added maoh to filtered pill mass filtered once more and evaped slow. Nice useable looking stuff remaines in the dish, haven't weigh it yet. Box says 4mg of chlor maleate 60 p fed hcl. If you start out with HCl don't you end up with HCl? No lye was used. Inactive ingredients mag stearate and microcrystalline cellulose. Help i'm a Rock.  Frank Z
	anOrangeDrip (Stranger) 08-04-02 16:21 No 341379		automotive acetone vs. ww acetone?	Bookmark Reply
			Suppose there's a chemist that can't get reagent grade acetone or automotive acetone (for one reason or another)... swim used tfse to try to figure it out but he couldn't: if you start with 85% acetone and dry it with epsom salts will you get a purer acetone than if you start with 70% (or whatever the retail brand is)? When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 08-05-02 00:04 No 341549		Depends	Bookmark Reply
			if you start with 85% acetone and dry it with epsom salts will you get a purer acetone than if you start with 70% The only thing that would effect the waterlessness of the two would bee not enough epsoms.  Since you have no idea about the % of H2O in the first place, just make sure you overdry your acetone.  Thoroughly dried Epsoms will soak up as much as 106% of it's weight when ground to a dust. IMHO, 85-95% purity is about the norm. So, for 4 litres of acetone, overdry with 800ml of stove dried Epsoms... TooMuch is Just Enough... What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been
	BenWiFFen (Line Monitor) 08-05-02 05:53 No 341634		acetone	Bookmark Reply
			acetone can bee found where ever finger nail polish is sold. To remove it. Bee sure to read the label seeing how there is more then one type remover. Walking bees are sad bees
	former_chemist (Hive Bee) 08-05-02 06:28 No 341643		Water in acetone	Bookmark Reply
			Acetone isn't very hygroscopic and water is only produced in the isopropyl oxidation process.  I suspect that the water is added for extra profit margin.  The same store (Wally World) with the 85% acetone also injects their beef with water to increase weight (yep read the fine print).  Basically one more reason not to shop there.
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-05-02 07:57 No 341677		Water contents vary by batch	Bookmark Reply
			The water content of most OTC acetone varies from batch to batch. Sometimes the batch is notoriously wet, sometimes it is dry. Acetone will absorb moisture from the air, and the conditions when it is canned or bottled may have a good deal to do with how much water is in it. The body shop acetone as a rule is much drier than other brands...but Geez tends to dry all of it over epsoms. Ritualistic perhaps, or anal-retentive, but it does seem to pay off in the long run. Hell, it usually pays off in a short sprint. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.
	anOrangeDrip (Stranger) 08-05-02 14:45 No 341822		which brings me to my next question	Bookmark Reply
			What is the best way to store anhydrous solvents (mineral spirits and acetone specifically)? I realize a sealed container is required, of course... but, for example, is it best to store dry acetone in a steel container (like the way it is bought). Does light have anything to do with it? One more stupid newbee trick... my cousin's neice dried IPA with epsom salts but when it was filtered, she found epsom salts in the bottom of the jug. She told me she thinks it's because she filtered the IPA when it was still hot (I told her she's a dumb bitch ) Other than it being hot, is there any other reason? ah crap, another edit... I was just thinking this, if it being hot has something to do with it, will chilling (to near freezing) help out any? When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 08-07-02 19:26 No 342789		she probably used a shitty coffee filter which ...	Bookmark Reply
			she probably used a shitty coffee filter which will allow fine particles thru Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
	SaintCyril (Hive Bee) 08-07-02 19:35 No 342794		Anhydrous solvent storage	Bookmark Reply
			From a company who sells super anhydrous solvents: Solvents this dry need a packaging system designed to ensure that the exceptional state of dryness achieved at time of purification is retained throughout storage and use. Before filling, we first oven-dry the amber glass bottles to remove all traces of water which may be present on the inner walls. At such low levels even this trace moisture is noticeable. The bottles are then filled under an inert atmosphere of dry nitrogen to prevent moisture build-up and sealed with a special cap. Specially designed both to retain solvent dryness and purity and to facilitate dispensing, the Hi-Dry® cap features a double seal; a PTFE wad and a self-sealing septum. The PTFE wad sits between the solvent and the septum thereby maintaining the original chemical purity and giving an extended shelf life before initial use. The self-sealing septum allows the solvent to be dispensed by syringe at the point of use but because the cap itself is screw-on it may also be opened conventionally. However, it is important to note that once in contact with the atmosphere product quality can deteriorate depending on the hygroscopic nature of the solvent. To overcome this we recommend that dispensing operations are conducted under dry nitrogen either in a dry cabinet or with a positive pressure of the gas within the bottle. For safety reasons this should not exceed 0.3 bar (0.31 kg/sq cm) and should only be undertaken by personnel trained in such techniques and wearing appropriate safety equipment. Special Cap. Or you could go here to package it. Cy We are the people that your parents warned you about.

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