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	Posts 1 - 11 of 11	Subject: Glacial Acetic Acid / Acetic anydrid / PAA / P2P



Jan1983 (Hive Bee) 06-20-02 05:13 No 323332	Glacial Acetic Acid / Acetic anydrid / PAA / P2P	Bookmark Reply
	Hi Out there, Swim just started to go on the synths for P2P, as he looked on mandelic acid he got out bought 2,5Kg and now wants to start. So here are swims questions: How much can the synth be scaled up ? mandelic -> PAA With what can swim exchange acetic anydride in the synth ? PAA -via Sodium acetat-> P2P Is it realy important that no H2O gets into the synth ? PAA -via Sodium acetat-> P2P Best Regards. Chemistry are not only the things that stink. :)



Elementary (Hive Addict) 06-20-02 05:19 No 323334	Mandelic	Bookmark Reply
	Now all you need to find is red phosphorus etc to reduce the mandelic acid to PAA, that's the big bummer with mandelic acid.



Rhodium (Chief Bee) 06-20-02 05:20 No 323335	You must use acetic anhydride in that synthesis.	Bookmark Reply
	You must use acetic anhydride in that synthesis. It is a reactant. It is important to keep water out to avoid the acetic anhydride being hydrolyzed to acetic acid. If you cannot get AA, choose another method: http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phenylacetone.html



hypo (Hive Addict) 06-20-02 05:26 No 323338	rP	Bookmark Reply
	Elementary: in some EU countries you can buy rP by the kg without problems. (apart from a steep price)



Jan1983 (Hive Bee) 06-20-02 05:30 No 323339	AAAAAARRRRRRR	Bookmark Reply
	Rhodium, i thought you are one of those enyoing the chemistry and not only make the drug !!! else swim wouldn't go that synt and stay at his hydratropic aldehyde as he ordered a 100L drumm. but swim wants to have some fun and try other synths too. So as i understand the acetic anhydrid is a H2O absorbing chemical and reacts with the PAA to P2P, cant be H2SO4 in a cold also be used ?? And For the second Hydratropic Aldehyde synth, can ther also HgS be used ? Chemistry are not only the things that stink. :)



Rhodium (Chief Bee) 06-20-02 05:41 No 323341	acetic phenylacetic anhydride	Bookmark Reply
	As I understand the reaction, the acetic anhydride reacts with the phenylacetic acid, forming the mixed acetic phenylacetic anhydride, which loses carbon dioxide and forms P2P. The use of AA can probably not be circumvented by any other means than using PAA and a divalent metal acetate, like Pb(OAc)2. I'm definitely interested in this field because of the chemistry, but for it to work, you need to have all the required chemicals in stock.



terbium (Old P2P Cook) 06-20-02 11:35 No 323415	Thoria.	Bookmark Reply
	The use of AA can probably not be circumvented by any other means than using PAA and a divalent metal acetate, like Pb(OAc)2. I believe that you can use PAA/acetic acid in a tube furnace with thoria catalyst.



Rhodium (Chief Bee) 06-20-02 12:04 No 323419	tube furnace	Bookmark Reply
	Yeah, you're right Terbium, I forgot that smelly method. Full instructions here: http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv2p0389 PAA + AA -> P2P rxn mechanism: Post No 165312



pickle11 (Stranger) 07-03-02 00:23 No 328246	other reductions of mandelic acid	Bookmark Reply
	would it be possible to reduce mandelic acid to phenyl acetic acid using H2S generated HI(aq) of ammonium sulphide (via wizard x) or a birch reduction, or catalytic hydrogenation. is it possible to over reduce? and what would be the product allyl or propenyl benzene possibly?



pickle11 (Stranger) 07-03-02 02:56 No 328273	interesting use for mandelic acid	Bookmark Reply
	by the way I found this page as a possible use for mandelic acid. i guess its not watched but I dont know how suspicious ordering it is. http://www.puckerup.com/anal_advisor/anal17a.htm



WizardX (Wizard Master) 07-04-02 18:57 No 328881	Reductions of mandelic acid	Bookmark Reply
	reductions of mandelic acid: HI/RP, electrochemical, or birch. All will work.

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