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Jan1983
(Newbee)
06-09-02 09:11
No 319139
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P2P
/ Hydratropic Acid
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Hi ther Swim tried to make some p2p out of H2SO4 + Hydratropic acid, he put
it together (both cooled in freezer) in an acetone/icebath, As the addition
started swim noticed that the temp was already -18°C and he stoped addition
for 3-5 min until it got back to 15°C then goes on adding, he stirred by
shaking his erlmeyer, and then some milky vanillaice looking clouds where
noticed in the flask after all was added swim noticed that in there is a lot
of this mily stuff, is that p2p ?? frozen H2SO4 ?? frozen hydratropic ?? and
he put the stuff on his crushed ice and now he is out to get some more
DiEthyl.
Swim would be happy if anyone can help him.
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terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
06-09-02 09:39
No 319148
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Hydratropic
ACID?
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This is new. I have seen discussions of converting hydratropic aldehyde
to P2P, Post No 102790, but not hydratropic acid.
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Jan1983
(Newbee)
06-09-02 09:57
No 319151
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sorry
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I was a bit confused while writing swim used Haydratropic Aldehyde, so anyone
here familar whith the reaction anone got same results ?? what is it in there
?? poured onto ice did melt some of the "vanillaice" stuff. it
doesnt smell like hydratropic aldehyde anymore, its a bit more sweet.
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-09-02 10:15
No 319156
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You
are among the first ones to try it out, so ...
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You are among the first ones to try it out, so please carry on the synthesis
and report the results to us. I don't know of anyone publishing their results
from this reaction yet besides the post linked above.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-09-02 10:29
No 319157
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Ok
cheif here ar some details from swim
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Ok guys swim did the reaction and reported a dioferent very well odor, some
hydratopic smell, but seems fine as everythin on the ice melted, the
reaction was 18ml of hydratropic and 85 ml of H2SO4 96%
the main time of the procedure swim hold the temp at -13°C.
Hydratropic aldehyde:
Melting point -60 °C
Sulfuric Acid:
-16°C as i remember (correct me if wrong)
P2P:
-15°C (chemfinder said so)
swim will freeze some of the poured remaining stuff to -20 if it freezes it
will be p2p, he hopes.
any better testing method for p2p ??
I will give a full writeup if it is good stuff.
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hermanroempp
(Newbee)
06-09-02 11:32
No 319162
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P2P
or not..
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You can test for P2P by forming some derivatives of it and measuring their
respective melting points.
From "Organikum", 12. edition, 1973:
Phenylacetone, b.p.= 216 °C, m.p.= 27 °C
Derivatives of phenylacetone:
p-nitro-phenylhydrazone, m.p.= 145 °C
2,4,-dinitro-phenylhydrazone, m.p.= 153 °C
phenylhydrazone, m.p.= 86 °C
semicarbazone, m.p.= 199 °C
Another source states:
phenylacetone, m.p.= 27 °C, b.p.= 215 °C, d20=1.0157 g/ml, nD23=
1.5139, m.p. of semicarbazone 197...198 °C
Quidquid
agis, prudenter agas et respice finem!
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-09-02 11:34
No 319163
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writeup
p2p from H2SO4 + Hydratropic
aldehyde
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sorry as swims notices as some acetone, on it he will redo this writeup when
he tested the final product. tomorow more here.
writeup temporaryly removed
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terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
06-09-02 14:01
No 319195
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Need
pure material.
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You can
test for P2P by forming some derivatives of it and measuring their respective
melting points.
But to prepare derivatives and have their properties mean anything the
material that you are trying to identify needs to be pure. Most all of the
reagents that can be used to derivatize P2P will also form a derivative with
hydratropic aldehyde.
What is needed here is a post reaction workup to separate and purify any P2P.
Probably a distillation after washing with water and aqueous bicarbonate to
get rid of acid.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-09-02 14:01
No 319196
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retry
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swim just want to retry the whole reaction, so can anyone say what p2p
looks like at atmospheric pressure and describe the odor. Swim evaporated the
diethyl and cooled it down to +20°C it was a paste (could still be impure
cause of the hydratropic).
What cleaning methods can be used to clean it from the hydratropic ?? (else
then Vac boiling cause swim doesnt hav vac pump yet)
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terbium
(Old P2P Cook)
06-09-02 14:07
No 319199
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Pale
yellow liquid.
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P2P is a pale yellow liquid. If it has just been distilled it may even be
colorless but soon becomes pale yellow.
It smells like P2P. What does hydratropic aldehyde smell like?
P.S.
There is no such thing as "hydratropic"; there is "hydratropic
aldehyde" and "hydratropic acid" but no
"hydratropic".
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-09-02 15:26
No 319215
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smell
and taste of Hydratropic Aldehyde: ...
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smell and taste of
Hydratropic Aldehyde:
http://www.execpc.com/~goodscnt/data/rw1006391.html
It burns if it came intouch of skin or if it is put into mouth. (swims
expirience)
Odor Description : Fresh Sharp Green Hyacinth Leaf Lilac
P2P:
http://www.speclab.com/compound/c103797.htm
the stuff that was made had a Pleasant Fragrance.
but wasnt melting at -16°C it was a viscous paste.
of to sleep
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-09-02 15:35
No 319220
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P2P/hydratropic
aldehyde separation
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terbium: P2P and hydratropic aldehyde cannot be separated by distillation.
Addition of a mild oxidizer to make the acid of the aldehyde (but which won't
affect the P2P), followed by a NaOH wash to remove the acid will leave only
P2P in the organic phase, and this is then purified by distillation.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-09-02 22:59
No 319297
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AL/Hg/Nitro
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Ok swim got the same resulting stuff as yesterday, he has about 1L diethyl
ether mixed with the stuff, as swim would need more details on mixing with
oxidiser and basify and then seperate and destill, he wants to know if the
amalgamination could be made by with the impureitys in it too ?? Swim thinks,
if the amalgam wont hurt the remaining Hydratropic aldehyde the final product
can be basified, seperated, gassed. and the aldehyde will stay in the final
gassed layer.
any comments ??
corrections ??
would a vac pump that creates a vacuum 0,15-0,2 bar be good enough to
seperate the P2P / hydratropic as in the details from rhoiums page ?
Would be nice if some more chemicaly knowleged bee could give some help while
making the reaction.
Thanks
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-10-02 00:13
No 319315
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Purification
is a MUST!
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If you subject hydratropic aldehyde to an Al/Hg reductive amination with
methylamine, you will get N-methyl-2-phenylpropylamine, which to my knowledge
is not tested in humans and is possibly toxic.
You must certainly remove all the aldehyde from your P2P before continuing.
Ask Osmium about what OTC oxidant you should use, he must know what would
work best for that.
It is not possible to effectively separate 2-phenylpropanal (bp
222°C/760mmHg) from phenyl-2-propanone (bp 214°C/760mmHg) through simple
distillation, and certainly not via vacuum distillation as the boiling points
are too close. Fractional distillation could theoretically be used to
separate them, but the size of the column that would have to be used makes
that option impractical.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-10-02 01:32
No 319331
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P2P
from 2-Phenylpropanal > 2-PHENYLPROPANAL ...
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P2P from
2-Phenylpropanal
> 2-PHENYLPROPANAL can be rearranged under certain conditions into P2P.
> Rearrangement occurs under strong acidic conditions (meaning H2SO4) at
low
> temperatures (-10 to -20 deg C). I don't remember the strengh of acid he
used,
> but I'm quite sure it was in the 20 to 70% range (sorry, don't know
anymore).
> So simply add the cooled aldehyde into that cool acid, stir for an hour
(or
> maybe 2). Workup was done the usual way, namely stirring that acid
mixture
> into huge amount of cold water, steam distill or extract with org.
solvent
> and distill. As the aldehyde smells rather strong, purity can easily be
> ascertained by your nose. Distillation doesn't work, bp of the two are
close.
Rearrangement of 2-phenyl-propanal with OTC-chemicals to produce
phenylacetone. Here's what I found out about this reaction:
B) 9 g of 2-phenylpropanal are slowly (40 min) added into conc. H2SO4. Temp
is kept at -16°C. Stirring might be a good idea. Let stand 15 min. (same
temperature). Pour on ice. The product is collected (extracted) and
distilled. Yield: 5.6g (60%).
Both procedures are from an old german journal, meaning they will *probably*
really work: S. Danilov, E. Venus-Danilova, Ber. 60, 1050 (1927).
[93-53-8]; Benzeneacetaldehyde, alpha-methyl-; 2-Phenylpropionaldehyde;
Alpha-methyl tolualdehyde; 2-Phenyl propanal; Alpha methyl phenylacetaldehyde;
Hydratropic aldehyde; Cumenealdehyde.
Found while googeling it says that purity can be determined by smell, as swim
sayed the product is not anymore smelling like the Hydratropic aldehyde. so
its pure ?? only destillation need ?
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Osmium
(Stoni's sexual toy)
06-10-02 04:05
No 319373
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If
it doesn't smell like the aldehyde anymore ...
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If it doesn't smell like the aldehyde anymore then don't bother trying to
separate it. Hydratropic aldehyde has a very strong smell, you really should
be able to tell the difference between P2P and that stuff.
De-acidify the ether extract, remove the ether and distill. The icecream
resembling stuff you mentioned must be some side product, don't bother to
isolate it.
I'm not
fat just horizontally disproportionate.
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Elementary
(Hive Addict)
06-10-02 08:33
No 319431
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Could
you not convert the hydratropic aldehyde ...
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Could you not convert the hydratropic aldehyde into atropic acid and fuse it
with potassium hydroxide to obtain P2P ? EDIT : Sorry guys this gives you phenylacetic acid not P2P 
J. prakt. Chem. (2) 82, 52, 58 (1910).
Post No 305031
John
Lennon - Working Class Hero
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-10-02 10:14
No 319457
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You
cannot convert hydratropic aldehyde to ...
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You cannot convert hydratropic aldehyde to atropic acid. The latter has a OH
group in the 3-position, and that is not something you can attach just like
that.
Very byzantine route anyhow.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-10-02 10:22
No 319461
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I
thought about getting the oils devided, first ...
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I thought about getting the oils devided, first destill to be sure to only
have p2p/hydratropic aldehyde then freezing the destillate ?? would that be
possible if are mixed ??
Edit:
If you subject hydratropic aldehyde to an Al/Hg reductive amination with
methylamine, you will get N-methyl-2-phenylpropylamine, which to my knowledge
is not tested in humans and is possibly toxic.
rok rhod and the final product then Acid base extraxt 2 times, would the
stuff come over too ?? i cant find any ref's for that stuff
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-10-02 12:52
No 319514
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purification
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That compound will carry over in an acid/base extraction just like
methamphetamine - I suspect it has a very similar boiling point too, so even
vacuum distillation of the freebase might not help (recrystallization of the
methamphetamine hydrochloride will help some though). I suggest you remove
the aldehyde before your Al/Hg to minimize your problems.
Do you have TLC equipment? Then you can easily 'spot' if you have any
aldehyde left in solution.
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crunch
06-10-02 14:51
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Big
Red Old School turns gear pink
(Rated as: redundant)
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-10-02 15:50
No 319556
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recrystalize
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First Al / Hg / Nitro swim ever made and now wants recrystalise his product,
so he started to get it done then the whole writeup will follow in a few
minutes / hour
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-11-02 01:29
No 319753
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Succsess
story: 85ml H2SO4 96% 18ml Hydratropic ...
(Rated as: excellent)
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Succsess story:
85ml H2SO4 96%
18ml Hydratropic Aldehyde
The 1L roundflask Swij used was put into a mixture of ice/acetone. The Thermo
was sticked next to the flask.
When the temp was at -15°C Ice cold sulfuric acid (85ml) and stribar where
put in the flask. Now Swij began to have fun adding the Hydratropic aldehyde
to the H2SO4 (both was cooled in freezer over one night to -13°C) at 1 drop
per five seconds, while maximum stirring.Swij saw the temp rising to -13°C,
used the butanecooler to get it cooled down back to -14 -15°C. When SwiJ
noticed after 3-4 minutes after begin of adding it gets a creamy viscous milk
he started to go over to 1 drop per second or a bit less. Still on full power
stirring. t+15 minutes the addition rate was set to 1-2 drops per second. t +
60 min all was done, and the still stirring the -13°C cold milk was poured of
in a Breaker with very fine cruschedice one hour after ice was molten, the
hydratropic aldehyde smell was gone away and a well smell is there .
The stuff from breaker where treated with 100ml of ether shaken, seperated,
again water was treated with 100ml ether shaken, seperated, last diethyl wash
was with 150ml ether.
The combined Ether washs where washed with saturated NaCl, NaHCO3 and pure
water.
The stuff will be about 15-16 ml after destilling over the stuff was an
viscous oil.
After Al/Hg/Nitro with some problems it yielded about 11g of pure meth and
swij is still running through the flat after 50mg oraly 8 hours before.
Comments Corrections are welcome.
Greets
ButaneCooler:
get of the spray mechanism of your starter fluid that has a long neck 10-15
cm, and put that onto your butangas bottle if it doesnt fit , take the
adapters for the butanegas, and cut them as needed interface.if you spray it
on ice it will cool alot
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-11-02 13:22
No 319897
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How
did you precipitate the hydrochloride?
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How did you precipitate the hydrochloride? How did you recrystallize?
Can you analyze the product in any way (TLC, melting point)?
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WizardX
(Wizard Master)
06-12-02 17:15
No 320492
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Aldehyde
test.
(Rated as: excellent)
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TWO TESTS FOR ALDEHYDES
Fehling Solution Reagent.
This test reagent reacts ONLY with aldehydes. If a solution contains a
mixture of aldehyde and ketone it will react only with the aldehyde and a
false result will be interpreted as the compound being an aldehyde.
Another false reading is with benzaldehyde, C6H5-CHO, and aldehyde compounds
of similar nature. Although an aldehyde, it will not react with the reagent
and thus you may interpret that the compound is a ketone.
Fehling Solution is prepared in two parts, Solution A & B.
Solution A.
7 grams of copper(II) sulphate pentahydrate, CuSO4 . 5H2O dissolved in 100
mls of demineralised water.
Solution B.
12 grams of sodium hydroxide and 5 grams of sodium or potassium
2,3-dihydroxybutanedioate (sodium or potassium tartrate acid) in 100 mls of
demineralised water.
Test Procedure.
Place 5 mls of Solution A in a testtube. Add dropwise, Solution B, until a
deep blue solution is formed. This deep-blue solution is a copper complex ion
solution.
Place 1-2 mls of this deep-blue solution into another smaller testtube. Add
3-5 drops of the compound you want to test. Heat the reagent and
test-compound with a bunsen burner or hot oil bath until it gently boils for
1-3 minutes. A red precipitate of copper(I) oxide deposits on the bottom of
the testtube indicated an aldehyde.
The deep-blue copper(I) complex is reduced by the aldehyde. The aldehyde is
inturn oxidised.
Dimedone Reagent.
Dimedone (5,5-dimethylcyclohexane-1,3-dione) reacts to form a crystalline
derivative ONLY with aldehydes.
The condensation products of dimedone and aldehyde are called alkylidene
dimethones. The alkylidene dimethones are almost insoluble in water, but can
be crystallised from dilute ethanol.
Test Procedure.
Add 0.1 grams of the test-aldehyde to 5 mls of a 50/50% ethanol/water solution,
add 2 mls of a 10% or saturated ethanolic solution of Dimedone.
If a precipitate does not form immediately, warm for 5 minutes; if the
solution is still clear at the end of this period, add hot water until the
mixture is just cloudy and cool to about 5 oC. Collect the crystalline
precipitate by filtration.
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WizardX
(Wizard Master)
06-12-02 17:23
No 320495
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a-PHENYLPROPIONALDEHYDE
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Synonyms for hydratropaldehyde :
a-PHENYLPROPIONALDEHYDE
2-phenylpropanal
hydratropaldehyde
a-PHENYLPROPIONALDEHYDE [Hydratropaldehyde]
The hydratropaldehyde distils at 90-93°/10 mm. or 73-76°/4 mm. (oil bath at
120-130°).
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/prep.asp?prep=cv3p0733
BMK (P2P)
110-120@21-22mmHg & 109-112@24mmHg Crude distillation
110-115@21-22mmHg Refined distillation
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-12-02 23:02
No 320638
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Hii
guys, Swij gave the final product to his best
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Hii guys,
Swij gave the final product to his best friend who works for a company that
normaly analyses drugs from busts. He got ther results today, it was 97% pure
methamph, 1.3% carbon, 0.2% NaOH (dunno where it came from) and then a lot of
0.1% organic stuff i cant speak out the names, and some ng of Mercury and Al
??
swij recrystalysed the stuff with HCL bubbeling, the Ether was bubbeled and
filtered 3 times, washed the final product with Acetone, then dissolved in
destilled water rebasifyed with NaOH, extraxted with ether, again bubbled and
filtered, wash with pure acetone.
Swij only use the chems that say For Analyses to do the last steps.
Wizard: can this "testing" Solution in larger quanities be used to
get rid of the last hydratropic aldehyde in the solution ?? or what by
products will be created ??
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-14-02 19:51
No 321496
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The
last part about the analysis was very ...
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The last part about the analysis was very interesting. Do you think you could
type up the complete list of those "0.1% byproducts" as well as
giving us the exact quote of how many ng/g of Al and Hg you had in your
product?
Hey - listen everybody - it seems like the very cheap and almost OTC
hydratropic aldehyde really IS good for synthesizing P2P in high yield, using
only chilled sulfuric acid - I want more experiments done on this!
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-17-02 04:46
No 322400
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Sorry
Rhod
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I am not going to type down the whole 4 sites,
here al and hg:
12ng Hg
8ng Al
is it much ??
i was lazy and a bit tired that night i think i should have let the
seperation sit longer, after shaking the mixture from Al/Hg.
Best regards.
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former_chemist
(Newbee)
06-17-02 08:20
No 322438
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Cleaner
than my drinking water!
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That is cleaner than my drinking water!!!
Ya get more aluminum than that from boiling water in an aluminum pot.
And the fish around here would love water that had that little Hg. Of
course around here the fish just lay on the bottom they are so full of heavy
metals
Fractional recrystallization from alcohol would be the only way I can see to
get a purer product. Then you would wind up with really pure along with
some stuff of that contained more impurities.
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former_chemist
(Newbee)
06-17-02 09:02
No 322443
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Uses
other than perfumery
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Are there any uses of Hydratropic Aldehyde other than perfumery? This
probably belongs in aquisition but since it follows directly from the thread
I posted it here.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-17-02 22:23
No 322637
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wash
your freebase with water
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Wash the freebase you got with destilled water (ie stirr and shake it heavily
and do 2x a/b i think i lost the mots of the shit in it while doing that.
and as always use Methanol and acetone washed breakers / seperatory funnels.
Swim likes to heat his breakers / seperatory funnel on the hotplate to get
them dry.
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ballzofsteel
(Hive Bee)
06-18-02 03:02
No 322679
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aldehyde
madnesss
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Hello,After scouring the net for a couple of days Ive become a tad confused
as to which aldehyde I am to theoretically persue.From what I have gleened
from Rhodiums site and the recent couple of threads posteded on this topic Im
after Phenylacetaldehyde cas# 93-53-8.
My problem is the inconsistancy in description of the numerous synonyms for
Hydratropic aldehyde and their corresponding cas numbers and formula over a
range of suppliers websites.
Could somebody be so kind as to show me the formula and correct cas number,
plus any other descriptives applicable to the compound in question and or
anything I should most definately steer clear of.
This an example http://www.lothar-streeck.de/ingredie/ingredie-157.html
same molecule (I think)different cas number.
This seems to be the case for every site iI visit.
E.g same synonym different formula or same formula different cas number ect.
Any help advice would be most humbley appreciated.Thankyou.
P.s. If the above is the correct compound,I believe it may be abundant in a
strain of the hyacinth flower.For what its worth.
Edit:oops sorry Wizard X missed that.
Still whats with this inconsistancy
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-18-02 03:10
No 322682
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C9H10O
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Sum Formula: C9H10O
Formula: CH3CH(C6H5)CHO
Synonyms: 2-Phenylpropionaldehyde; Alpha-methyl tolualdehyde; 2-Phenyl
propanal; Alpha-methyl phenylacetaldehyde; Hydratropic aldehyde;
Cumenealdehyde; 2-Phenylpropionaldehyde, Pract.;
CAS: 93-53-8
That was the stuff swim was succsessful with
The stuff you found wasn't Hyratropic aldehyde :)
Best regards.
Chemistry
ar not only the things that stink. :)
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ballzofsteel
(Hive Bee)
06-18-02 03:32
No 322685
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thanks
Jan. I guess I should stick to what is ...
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thanks Jan.
I guess I should stick to what is written,and maybe read a bit more
thoroughly in the future.
I think I got confused by following the varios synonyms and not the
formulas.Oh well.
Something to do with the methyl position right?HahAha like I would know.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-18-02 04:36
No 322701
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Oh
my god, i thought you did a mistake, ok, but ...
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Oh my god,
i thought you did a mistake, ok, but you do not read what i post ie. you dont
read the info you post.
Go and learn how to read comapre things:
Here the sum formula's:
Your find: C8 H8 O
Hydratropic aldehyde: C9 H10 O
No structure at al yet:
THERE IS 1 C atom and 2 H Atoms more in the hydratropic aldehyde so it
can't be Hydratropic aldehyde, it has nothing to do with structure, its
simply another molecule.
So please, READ and not run and ask is this the stuff you meaned (?????) if
it has a different sum formular.
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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Elementary
(Hive Addict)
06-18-02 05:33
No 322707
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Structure
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Here's another representation of the structural formula of hydratropic
aldehyde :
BTW, has anybee got information on the Darzens' synthesis of hydratropic
aldehyde ? ie: lab procedure. I have already posted about the synthesis from
styrene, see Post No 320196, but a new thread on the Darzens
method would be interesting.
John
Lennon - Working Class Hero
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-18-02 08:00
No 322723
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Darzens
method
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Yes, the Darzens method is linked from the bottom of http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/2-phenylpropanal.html
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WizardX
(Wizard Master)
06-20-02 18:29
No 323540
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Test
reagents
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I have given you the aldehyde test reagents so you can test how successful
you have been with the rearrangement of the 2-Phenylpropanal.
If you wish you can use the Dimedone reagent to purify your reaction mixture,
distillation is far better.
Dimedone Reagent.
Dimedone (5,5-dimethylcyclohexane-1,3-dione) reacts to form a crystalline
derivative ONLY with aldehydes.
The condensation products of dimedone and aldehyde are called alkylidene
dimethones. The alkylidene dimethones are almost insoluble in water, but can
be crystallised from dilute ethanol.
Test Procedure.
Add 0.1 grams of the test-aldehyde to 5 mls of a 50/50% ethanol/water solution,
add 2 mls of a 10% or saturated ethanolic solution of Dimedone.
If a precipitate does not form immediately, warm for 5 minutes; if the
solution is still clear at the end of this period, add hot water until the
mixture is just cloudy and cool to about 5 oC. Collect the crystalline
precipitate by filtration.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-21-02 05:46
No 323626
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Ok
thanks for the reply's, Swim has still enough ...
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Ok thanks for the reply's,
Swim has still enough Hydratropic aldehyd floating around and 100g
Mercury(II)chlorid is here to, has anyone expirience with that synt ??
HgCl2 + Hydratropic aldehyde = P2P + ??
can Swim recover the Mercury chlorid ?
can Swim exchange the HgCl2 with HgS or Hg2Cl2 ??
Would be happy for help for that synth too.
Next writeup then soon too.
Best regards
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-21-02 06:12
No 323633
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mercury
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I don't think anyone here has tried that, as mercury is so hideously toxic,
and that the reaction also needs to be performed under pressure in a bomb.
If you really are to try that out, do you have a safe container to perform
the reaction in, and what are your plans for collecting the mercury waste so
that you aren't dumping 100g into the environment?
As sulfuric acid worked so well catalyzing the reaction, I feel it would be
unnecessary to perform the second most toxic procedure found at my page (only
the oxythallation of alpha-methylstyrene is worse)... All in all, I advise
against it. There are MANY other new and novel methods to try out - you've
really got the right spirit wanting to try as many new things as possible,
but *please* stay away from the super-heavy metals.
If there is a parallell between this Hg reaction and the similar one with
thallium, then I believe a soluble Hg2+ salt must be used, such as
the chloride, nitrate or acetate.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-21-02 06:25
No 323637
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????
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swim wanted to use an old fire extinguisher would that work ?
What else synth. with mostly common / non toxic compounds would you prefer ?
as swim has problems getting chems at here, else he would have tryed more
synth's already.
pm. me some stuff you would like to have tested (swim doesn't have much money
to get starting chemicals at the moment so please choose cheap synth's)
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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Rhodium
(Chief Bee)
06-21-02 07:01
No 323646
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No,
not a modified fire extinguisher under high ...
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No, not a modified fire extinguisher under high pressure, filled with a
lethal poison. Please.
I have lots and lots of things that should need a little testing, but I have
no idea about which chemicals you can get, or what kind of laboratory
equipment and skills you have...
I guess that your primary goal is to end up with meth or any of the usual precursors.
At least that narrows it down a bit. Are grignard reactions too hard for you?
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st1
(Stranger)
06-23-02 02:04
No 324345
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Jan1983:
> If you subject hydratropic aldehyde ...
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Jan1983:
> If you subject hydratropic aldehyde to an Al/Hg reductive amination with
methylamine, you will get
> N-methyl-2-phenylpropylamine, which to my knowledge is not tested in
humans and is possibly toxic.
This compound (Phenpromethamin) is controlled by the german BtmG. Don't know
if it's good, though.
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Jan1983
(Hive Bee)
06-23-02 22:20
No 324631
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realy
?
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st1 is it realy controled by the Btmg ?? if so it should at be a stimmulant
in any way, else they wont control it.
Chemistry
are not only the things that stink. :)
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BieneMaja
(Hive Bee)
06-27-02 05:07
No 326028
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never
search any sense
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never search any sense in laws like the btmg. cathinone is also listed in
category 1 of the btmg and only works as good as plain old coffee does.
btw: [url]http://www.bmgesundheit.de/presse/2001/2001/pm27/btm.doc
[/url]
kallos
kai agathos
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pimpmaster
(Hive Bee)
07-17-02 10:45
No 333672
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Word
of advise never work with Hydratropic ...
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Word of advise never work with Hydratropic aldehyde with out using gloves it
really does not go well with your skin it still lingers on you after 2
washes, + it dissolved my plastic measuring beaker 
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