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Date:3/7/2005

By:admin -- Please Help Resurrect The Hive! Click Here For Instructions - 01:47:19 AM


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fishinabottle
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Posted - Feb 17 2005 :  9:17:39 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit fishinabottle's Homepage  Reply with Quote


Thats misinforming. It was not 4-MAR (4-methyl-aminorex) what was taken from the market but Aminorex - the non-methylated sister of 4-MAR a different compound.
4-MAR was never on the legal market.

So thats stupid anti-drug propaganda, please inform yourself better in future before posting.

regards
/fish


 

Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change

 


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IndoleAmine
Dreamer


Posted - Feb 23 2005 :  01:07:33 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


Methylation usually doesn't make for easier and/or less neurotoxic metabolism does it?
(but 4-MAR is rather safe though from what I've read about it)

And hes not that wrong at all: aminorex was taken from the pharmaceutical market after a couple of unexpected heart strokes had occured in female patients receiving MAR medication.

You maybe could've used the friendly way and explained that with 4-MAR, the usual "methylation = greater metabolic toxicity" scheme doesn't apply; and that 4-MAR is safer than MAR. But insulting him of doing "anti-drug propaganda"? Nah, not really...

 


Edited by - IndoleAmine on Feb 23 2005 01:14:16 AM

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 11 2005 :  05:55:06 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


A 4-MAR misinformation 3-bee

Below is a set of 3 text clippings that relate to the idea that 4-MAR might be a dangerous and potentially deadly substance.

The first one deals with it's non methylated relative aminorex.

The second deals with its precursor phenylpropanolamine (PPA) , which used to be OTC in the forms of the Dexatrim diet aid and the cold remedy called Dimetap.

The third deals with a commonly referred to death of a Florida man who's autopsy report showed some level of 4-MAR in his blood, among a few other substances of suspicion.

1. The Aminorex Reference

http://hazardsofmedicine.org/docs/pharmaceutical.html

Imoberdorf, R. and Ballmer, P. E., "[Obesity: principles of drug therapy]," Ther Umsch, Vol. 57, No. 8, 2000, pp. 522-5.

Abstract: Obesity is a major global public health problem. In many instances, a combination of diet modification, increased physical activity and behavior therapy fail or are insufficient for sustained weight loss. In these situations, drug therapy may be helpful. However, drug treatment of obesity resulted in unexpected devastating events in recent years. In the late sixties, aminorex caused an epidemic of pulmonary hypertension with high mortality rates. Dexfenfluramine and phentermine were also associated with the development of pulmonary hypertension and with alarming reports of cardiac valvular abnormalities. Therefore, these drugs were withdrawn from the market. Newer drugs, like sibutramine, a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, and orlistat, a specific lipase inhibitor, reduce body weight significantly compared to placebo. In combination with a hypocaloric diet, weight loss of three to ten kilos can be achieved. Pharmacotherapy is limited to patients with a body mass index greater than 30 kg/m2, if non-pharmacological treatment programs have failed. The drugs should be prescribed under strict medical surveillance only.

2. The PPA reference

http://www.fda.gov/cder/drug/infopage/ppa/default.htm

Phenylpropanolamine (PPA) Information Page

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is taking steps to remove phenylpropanolamine (PPA) from all drug products and has requested that all drug companies discontinue marketing products containing PPA. In addition, FDA has issued a public health advisory concerning phenylpropanolamine hydrochloride. This drug is an ingredient used in many over-the-counter (OTC) and prescription cough and cold medications as a decongestant and in OTC weight loss products.

Scientists at Yale University School of Medicine recently issued a report entitled "Phenylpropanolamine & Risk of Hemorrhagic Stroke: Final Report of the Hemorrhagic Stroke Project." This study reports that taking PPA increases the risk of hemorrhagic stroke (bleeding into the brain or into tissue surrounding the brain) in women. Men may also be at risk. Although the risk of hemorrhagic stroke is very low, FDA recommends that consumers not use any products that contain PPA.

FDA’s Nonprescription Drugs Advisory Committee recently discussed this study and other information on phenylpropanolamine. The Committee determined that there is an association between PPA and hemorrhagic stroke and recommended that PPA not be considered safe for over-the-counter use.

3. The Commonly Referred to Death Suspected to Have a Possible Link to 4-MAR

Case Report: A Fatality Involving UPPER. Orlando Crime Laboratory.
Gwen Love: Corner Drug Store. Gainesville, FL
Merck Index, Tenth Edition

In Defense of U4Euh

taken from a compilation of material concerning 4-mar done by Rhodium at....

http://designer-drugs.com/pte/12.162.180.114/dcd/chemistry/u4euh.notes.txt

You have seen only the bad side of U4Euh, so I can understand your
yellow journalism. I can understand it, but I do not forgive it. Yes, it is
made from a "stimulant" and a "poison." But common table salt is composed of sodium and chlorine, both of which are poisonous.

Aminorex was withdrawn, at least in Europe, because it caused
degenerative pulmonary hypertension after prolonged, daily use. Possibly due to the methyl group, we have detected no similar tendency in U4Euh.

As for "amphetamine-like effects," you could have used a neutral term
like "alpha-adrenergic effects," but NOOOooo...Doesn't every "stimulant"
(another buzz word) produce "Amphetamine-like effects?" What about
caffeine? As for "hallucinogenic effect" on "higher doses," how much
higher? VERY MUCH higherÄENORMOUS overdoses. Were the hallucinations caused by it, or by a lack of sleep? The recommended amount is ten to twenty-five milligrams, maximum of fifty milligrams, not more than once a week. "...similar to PCP"Äanother buzz word.

Yes, I am bothered that people misrepresent it. KNOW YOUR DEALER! "A small percentage of users administer it intravenously." HOW small a percentage? Obviously, if it was a large percentage, you'd include a number. A "small percentage" of needle freaks will shoot anything Only a small percentage shoot U4Euh because needle freaks prefer the rush from speed. "nobody that (sic) can get meth likes it." (anon.)

"The first...fatality" have there been other deaths, or was that the
ONLY one? Considering how much there may be out there, only one fatality would tend to indicate its relative safety. That fatality had reportedly been using it one or more times every day for several months, and taking phenobarb to sleep. He would gobble almost anything he could get his hands on. "...a history of clandestine chemical manufacturing"...ONE conviction..."cause of death to be a drug overdose." A drug. What drug? Did U4Euh cause it, did something else cause it, or was it the synergistic effect of several substances? Exactly what did the autopsy show? That he lived as long as did, despite such outrageous abuse of it, is proof of its relative safety.

This is, of necessity, anonymous. To paraphrase Miranda, anything you write can and damned well WILL be used against you if the Pigs want to. I could send you copies of the many favorable reports on U4Euh including the basic four-page brochure if I have your assurance they will not be published and will not fall into the hands of the Pigs. I am going to makewhat you will consider an outrageous suggestion: the next time you get a pure sample of it, try some. Only then will you know. Read the comments about it in the Winter 1987 Whole Earth Review.

The title was clever, but how did it get the name Ice? I KNOW how it
got the name U4Euh. This is a photocopy, made on a public machine, and was handled using gloves. The envelope was sealed and the stamp applied using water, not identifiable saliva.

- The Friendly Stranger



 


Edited by - KingCobb on Mar 11 2005 06:20:14 AM

 


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Anansi
New Dreamer

Posted - Mar 13 2005 :  07:18:50 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


quote:


Originally posted by blurg

You guys know why 4-mar was taken off the market as a weight loss drug don't you?....does "exotic heart disease" ring a bell?




Maybe you have your wires crossed a little?

From memory, the weight loss drug PPA(phenylpropanolamine) was taken off the market because of links to increased hemorrhagic stroke (bleeding in brain).

Aminorex (not 4-methyl aminorex) was (i think) never sold as a weightloss drug, (but was sold as some kind of pharmaceutical preparation) was associated with right-side heart failure. I think this is the 'exotic heart disease' to which you refer.

I do not know if the issues associated with Aminorex apply to 4-MAR, I have seen other people assert that 4-MAR does not carrry the same dangerous side effect.

Hope that helps,

...Anansi

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  3:33:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


4-MAR Precursor & and reagents. - Legality and relative lab safety.

Ok at this point in swims research on this he's concluded that norephedrine and PPA are one and the same. And that they can both be sourced somewhat easily by...

1) Homebrewing your own Via the amazing brewers yeast fermentation of benzaldehyde trick.

2) If you happen to be an old dog with incontinence in need of a prescription for something to help contain your free flowing bladder.

All legit human uses of it seemed to have now been stopped in the USA.

Lucky for swim he's got a good friend who easily visually passes for a dog and honestly has no bladder control so the veterinian bought it hook line and stinker on sight alone.

The big questions now lie with the potassium cyanate.

Those big questions are...

Is potassium cyanate a scheduled or watched substance?

Are there any inherent dangers in working with potassium cyanate and if so what are they and what precautions must be taken to deal with them?

If I recall correctly from the Hive this is a relatively safe reaction but am not entirely sure about that.

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  3:38:04 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24057

4-Mar - A Versatile Drug
Trans-4-methylaminorex
by Bandil


DOSE : 4-Methylaminorex (powder / crystals)

BODY WEIGHT : 98 kg


Half an hour ago i just turned in my exam in organic chemistry. Although i only was able to sleep less than two hours the night before, i was more clearheaded than ever and i finished the exam in record time. This is largely because of the wonderfull substance 4-methylaminorex, which i prefer over all other stimulants. It is a very versatile substance, which i will describe in the following:

A little less than a year ago i was so fortunate, that i gained access to unlimited amounts of trans-4-methylaminorex (the more potent isomer) freebase. The first few times i attemped to smoke it, but the smoke is to harsh for a non smoker, which made me unable to hold it in and thus get effects. All of my friends that have tried the smoking and oral route agree that the oral route is the most pleasant method of ingestion (effect wise), and thus i really don't care that my lungs can't take it. I simply eat it in a gelcap.

There are several situations where 4-mar is useful:

Parties:
I prefer 40 mg's of the freebase orally for a party dose. Many of my friends only need 20 for the same effects so please don't do 40 straight away. 40 mg's makes me talk, talk, talk, dance, dance, drink, drink, drink and generally puts me in a PERFECT party mood. Not as pushy as meth. 4-mar people generally don't just babble on and on like meth heads even though people are annoyed. This is a very nice difference. I have once taken about 50 mg's which made me feel like i was floating and was extremely euphoric. It was way too much for a social setting, but at raves and other places where you just generally 'groove' it's appropriate.

Boring work:
I always postpone boring tasks at work. With a small dose(10 mg's) of 4-mar i do the work very systematic and never skip any work. Work no matter what is enjoyable. The dosage is so small that noone will notice that i'm affected.

Sleep deprivation:
Just like today, there are times when one gets to little sleep. Before 4-mar it was awful before an exam for instance. But now it's no problem, 10-15 mg's clears the head like no sleep could. It's totally clear for about 10 hrs before the sleep sets in again. This substance is ideal for sleep deprivation. The duration of the sleep deprivation effect is ideal for a whole days work/study. No noticable tolerance is noted when done over a 48 hrs period. I have done this once, with three doses spaced 12 hrs each. The concentration doesn't go away as with meth over extended periods.

Generally:
In high doses it is often unbearably euphoric, yet very subtle. Often it seems that the euphoria is naturally induced (in the sense that there is not the 'drugged' feeling of meth). It seems very easy on the body compared to many other drugs. The euphoria usually doesn't kick in at doses under 20 mg's. The euphoria duration is around 6 hrs and 12 hrs for the sleep deprivation effect. At high doses the drug can be felt as long as 24 hrs after ingestion.

Another nice thing about 4-mar is that it does not induce the 'i want more' symptom as meth. Meth users crave more meth, whereas 4-mar satisfies the user after a single dosage. Nor does it induce paranoia... Very nice ideed :)

If you have the chance to get 4-mar, grab it! It's a very unique and nice drug.


Exp Year: 2003 ID: 24057
Added: May 28, 2003 Views: 4595

 


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Astrum
New Dreamer

Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  5:09:16 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


SWIM really wants some 4-MAR now. Nobody even knows what it is around these parts though. Ahh... If only phenylpropanolamine was as common as it was a few years ago and potassium cyanate was a smidgen easier to get. One can only dream eh?

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  5:44:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


The fact that 4-MAR appears to bee like a longer acting meth without all the weird and tweaky side effects does make it seem rather attractive.

It's funny though when some people actually seem to enjoy meth's tweakier qualities. I guess those types of people would miss all the paranoia and sketchiness that would bee missing from 4-MAR.

 


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FRED
New Dreamer

Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  6:03:58 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


is ppa easy to make?

 


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jboogie
Tech Support


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  6:05:26 PM        


it isnt a meth high at all...

and since they removed PPA from the market however many years ago, havent had 4-MAR since...

its truely a smart drug, not like meth at all besides the appearance.

the price is the first major diffeence in the two... 4-MAR is twice the cost (or was) round here...

 

Boog Night isn't a chemist, bUt He plays one on Wetdreams.ws!!
Ask him how!

 


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Astrum
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Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  6:25:48 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


Well phenylpropanolamine is still available in veterinary pharmacology. It's used to treat urinary tract infections in dogs and cats. It's fairly easy to get (Rx required) but it's price is quite high. I'm sure there's another (OTC) way to 4-MAR that's just waiting to be discovered ;).

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  7:24:03 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Jboogie wrote...


quote:


it isnt a meth high at all...




Whatever it might be called it sure looks interesting if one reads Bandils trip report from Erowid. Particularly as applied to "productivity" types of endeavors in which meth's usual "distracting" types of side effects might be a hindrance.

Bandil also had written up a favorable review of it as a "libido enhancer" at the Hive once I beleive.

What was your opinion on it for that purpose Boog?

Also, what elements of a typical "meth high" might be missing from a 4-MAR experience?

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  7:37:51 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Jboogie wrote...


quote:


it isnt a meth high at all...




Whatever it might be called it sure looks interesting if one reads Bandils trip report from Erowid. Particularly as applied to "productivity" types of endeavors in which meth's usual "distracting" types of side effects might be a hindrance.

Bandil also had written up a favorable review of it as a "libido enhancer" at the Hive once I beleive.

What was your opinion on it for that purpose Boog?

Also, what elements of a typical "meth high" might be missing from a 4-MAR experience?

 


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KingCobb
Mr. Iron Cajones


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  7:41:38 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote


Jboogie wrote...


quote:


it isnt a meth high at all...




Whatever it might be called it sure looks interesting if one reads Bandils trip report from Erowid. Particularly as applied to "productivity" types of endeavors in which meth's usual "distracting" types of side effects might be a hindrance.

Bandil also had written up a favorable review of it as a "libido enhancer" at the Hive once I beleive.

What was your opinion on it for that purpose Boog?

Also, what elements of a typical "meth high" might be missing from a 4-MAR experience?

 


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jboogie
Tech Support


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  8:49:14 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit jboogie's Homepage  Reply with Quote


damn, i saw it the first time bro.. jk.

boogie has done his body weight in 4-MAR, dont worry..

that was my original hive name before the couch got put in... boogie loves the shit.

couldnt get enough of it.

in 97 boogie was in college (for a different degree, network admin.) he had 4-MAR available in plentiful supply.

that shit kicked adderal's ass as far as study retention... that shit is productivity and motivation in a stabilzed drug salt.

 

Boog Night isn't a chemist, bUt He plays one on Wetdreams.ws!!
Ask him how!

 


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jboogie
Tech Support


Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  8:52:17 PM        


and he is fully aware it is available as a vet product..

thanks to the knowledge of others, he was able to procure 500 75mg casules (gaak free i might add, dogs dont cook crank) for a nice cook.

the shit it made was too hard core for boogie... we were talking bout that in gen.dis last night...

and he doesnt like the sulphate form of amphetamines, either. it smokes nasty..

 

Boog Night isn't a chemist, bUt He plays one on Wetdreams.ws!!
Ask him how!

 


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Astrum
New Dreamer

Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  9:07:56 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


We can't forget about this post in the original thread either:


quote:



Nitroxamide
(Stranger)
10-30-03 12:19
No 467848
cyanate preparation

Cyanates are easy to prepare. Simply heat an alkali hydroxide with urea.

NaOH + CO(NH2)2 ----> NaOCN + H2O + NH3
Plutonium is a necessary ingredient in the recipe for nirvana.




I know a few, including myself, have been wondering how to make KOCN easily, well there you have it folks. And of course urea is piss easy to make.
*snickers at his pun*

 


Edited by - Astrum on Mar 20 2005 9:16:43 PM

 


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Astrum
New Dreamer

Posted - Mar 20 2005 :  9:10:24 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


This is a thread from sciencemadness on getting urea from your own urine and a bit of purification .


quote:



chemoleo
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posted on 11-8-2004 at 23:33 Reply With Quote
Isolation of urea from urine!

No, I am not kidding!

I have always been interested in the chemicals the body produces/excretes, and urea is one of them!
Of course, urea is mostly easily available, but not everywhere. So there are ways of obtaining it yourself, from a chemical synthesiser called your own body

Urea is of course an ancient, well studied chemical, in fact it was discovered over 230 years ago, and Friedrich Woehler determined that urea could also be synthesised from inorganic chemicals, i.e. by the reaction of potassium cyanate with ammonium sulfate (1828).

The original discovery of urea was by Hilaire Marin Rouelle in 1773, who obtained it by boiling urea dry and obtaining a white residue (which later proved to be identical with Woehlers reaction products - disproving the idea that the chemistry of the living is radically different from inanimate matter)

Unfortunately, simply boiling down urine doesnt quite satisfy me, as it still contains certain quantities of salt, creatine, ureic acid, proteins etc.

Per day, about 1.5 - 2 litres are excreted, consisting of 95% of water. The rest (in grams per day consists of)

# 25 g urea
# 1 g uric acid (metabolic endproduct of purines from DNA)
# 1.5 g creatinine (derived from creatine phosphate, the muscle booster)
# 10 g of salts, mainly NaCl
# 3 g of phosphates, citric acid, oxalic acid,
# milligrams of proteins, and urochromen, which is the compound giving rise to the yellow colour of urine.

Now, looking at this information, what could be the best way of isolating urea from it?

I'd propose the following:

1. Collect urine for about a week, one should get about 10 litres. Needless to say, urine is STERILE to start off with. Preferably though, after each urine addition, the solution should be simply boiled to keep it sterile. Otherwise, just literally pee into a sterile pot with lid, and keep it at 4 deg C for the rest of the week. I dont think bacterial contamination should be a problem then (unless your have a medical condition, where bacteria are excreted through your urinary tracts)
2. AFter a week, boil down the urine, until a solid mass is obtained (from the above table, it should way about 300 grams. Do this outside, unless you want 10 litres of water condensing on your windows
3. That's when things become interesting. You want to get rid of salts (primarily), and phosphates. At this point there is no easy way to get rid of the creatinine, and the ureic acid. Proteins aren't much to worry about anyway, as conc. are very low.
So - I checked - urea is soluble in ethanol, at 50 g / l, @ 20 degC . Probably a lot more is soluble at higher temperatures. In water, it dissolves at >1500 g/litre, so very highly soluble. I'd try to dissolve the urine residue in an excess of cheap industrial ethanol (doesnt matter if it contains other things), which would mean, around 3 litres, if you heat the ethanol up a little (no open flames ok). All the inorganic stuff (salts etc) are barely soluble in ehtanol, so they should remain precipitated.
4. Filter off the remainder, and boil of the ethanolic solution of urea (with a small amount of creatinine potentially) down to a few hundred ml's, or even to dryness. If you distill, you can obviously recycle the ethanol, although it may prove to be a pain to recycle such large amounts, considering that ethanol is cheap anyhow.
5. Alternatively, once you boiled down the ethanolic solution of urea to a few hundred ml, you could add HCl (conc) or H2SO4, and precipitate urea as the respective salt (which is surely insoluble in ethanol). The salt can be turned back into urea with the appropriate amount of NaOH.

What do you think? Sure this is a very simple way of purifying urea, and of course if you had all the reagents, one could get extremely high purities.
At least, this way, one gets about 200 g of urea, straight from urine, with the only expense of 3 litres of industrial ethanol.
NOt to bad, huh?




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Polverone
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posted on 12-8-2004 at 01:13 Reply With Quote
I'm pretty sure that the "established" method of isolating urea from urine is to boil down the urine to concentrate the solution, then add nitric acid. Urea nitrate is relatively insoluble and precipitates. I think Megalomania's chem lab had a more exact procedure for this. Then you can take that small amount of solid and treat it with NaOH and ethanol to get the urea back.

I like this method because it should sharply separate urea from not-urea, and may require less energy (less forced evaporation). Urea oxalate is also fairly insoluble and can be precipitated from an aqueous solution containing urea.

Edit: sodium oxalate is isn't very soluble either, so I suppose HNO3 is the way to go.

[Edited on 8-12-2004 by Polverone]




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I am a fish
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posted on 12-8-2004 at 15:06 Reply With Quote
I know this forum advocates mad science, but isn't collecting urine going a bit too far? Amateur chemistry is a hard enough hobby to justify already, without having jars of urine to explain.

Then again, there are worse things you can do with it...




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chemoleo
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posted on 12-8-2004 at 16:18 Reply With Quote
To be honest, I don't think it goes too far at all.

Let me remind you that many diseases are diagnosed by analysing urine. Which means the person concerned has to fill a cup with it, and pass it on to the laboratory, who analyses it down to the last molecule. People are handling it every day and don't complain it goes to far. Oh, you may argue they do it because it's necessary, while purifying urea from urine isn't. Is that how you define 'going too far', however? Whether something is necessary or not?

By the way, in practical biochemistry classes, we analysed our very own urine for vitamin C content - which wasn't strictly necessary - and yet noone complained doing it.

Also, let me remind you that in biochemistry, urine is routinely used to purify certain enzymes. In fact, I worked with enzymes directly isolated from my own urine. So what? It's natural, and by no means sick, disgusting or dirty. Your blood is equally dirty (indeed your lymph fluids consist of less concentrated urinal fluids).
How is it different to isolate urea from urine, or glycogen from liver, cysteine from wool, or oxalic acid from rhubarb? The only difference that these are excretions - but it's still as natural or unnatural as anything else. What's the big deal?

Hmm - am I lacking perspective or something?
I thought that the idea/philosophy behind this, in essence, is no different to a lot of other chemical problems/purifications - if you ignore this totally unreasonable 'disgust' factor - totally unreasonable because urine is sterile, contains about 200 compounds, und doesnt even smell, unlike pancreatic enzymes / bile and such - which have been analysed to death just as well.
Again - where's the big deal? And what's this to do with the link ?(pee drinking - what the hell)

[Edited on 12-8-2004 by chemoleo]




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posted on 12-8-2004 at 22:37 Reply With Quote
I'd just like to say, urea is NOT inherently sterile even in healthy people. First of all, it is not that unusual for a few bacteria to be present in the bladder (although these are generally transient - if they colonise, you get an infection).

Secondly, urine is typically contaminated as it leaves the body, as bacteria are relatively common in the urethra, certainly towards the end.

That's why when you give a urine sample for disease testing the doctor will ask for a "mid-stream" sample - you will pee about a third of the contents of your bladder, stop, stick the cup under there, fill the cup and then finish off. THe first third is designed to (hopefully) wash away any transient bacteria.

Diagnosis of urinary tract infections is actually a statistical thing - if you detect a single live bacterium in the blood, for example, it is immediately considered an infection. But because of the relatively common contamination of urine, you have to have more than a cecrtain threshold level present in the sample to be considered an infection.

Thought somone might like to know this... trust me, nobody needs to work with semi=fermented urine samples (it's FAR from pleasant!!)
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posted on 12-8-2004 at 22:57 Reply With Quote
Of course, semi-fermented urine samples aren't pleasant. That's why I suggested boiling them.
But then, is the smell of ammonia pleasant? Surely not. Except, in the former case, ammonia is produced bacterially...

Anyway - the debate is not so much about the issue whether it's sterile or not (and I agree about your mid-stream sample), but simply whether this particular case is 'science that goes too far'.
And I just happened to disagree on that - if anything, I'd say, the making of highly toxic nerve gases is science that goes to far, at least for the amateur chemist!




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posted on 13-8-2004 at 01:02 Reply With Quote
Actually, I found the link somewhat interesting, although it failed to substantiate most of its positive claims. For example, I've always been taught that ingesting urine is counterproductive in preventing dehydration. They even intimate that "urine therapy" can be usefull in treating gout, a disease caused by excessive levels of uric acid!
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posted on 13-8-2004 at 01:04 Reply With Quote
US5659080 from the E&W archives:
In a 100 ml beaker was placed a solution of 50 grams of 33% diluted nitric acid, and to this solution was added 14 grams of urea in small portions while stirring vigorously. For this period of time, since the temperature does not show any rise practically, this reaction can be carried out in room temperature and is not necessary to be kept cool. Immediately urea nitrate resulted as crystals. Having been allowed to stand for 10 minutes, the mixture was filtered to collect the crystals. This crystals were washed with a little amount of water to remove the solution well and were then dried in a desiccator under vacuum. The yield resulted in 23.8 grams of urea nitrate (97% yield), whose melting point was measured to be 162.degree. C.

Urea and uric acid extraction from urine was good enough for Wieland's revision of Gattermann. It was isolated using colorless 70% HNO3. All the other old refs use the conc. acid as well. And all use BaCO3, K2CO3, or KHCO3 to give the metal nitrate.

The oxalate was made with hot satd soln of oxalic acid and syrupy urine. Like the nitrate it is not very soluble in excess of the acid. The oxalate is decomposed with CaCO3 suspension. This has the advantage of forming insoluble Ca oxalate, and the aqueous solution is filtered and evaporated.

Decolorizing was done with charcoal or boiling H2O2.




So what's the problem now?

 


Edited by - Astrum on Mar 20 2005 9:15:25 PM

 


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pipernigrum
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Posted - Mar 21 2005 :  03:28:32 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote


Cyanates are relatively nontoxic and currently unlisted. I have no idea how watched they might be.

Urea is available pure and OTC as the pellets in instant chemical cold packs. Ammonium nitrate is more common than urea in this application, but the urea ones are out there too. A web search would produce some brand names for you. It's also available (mostly) pure as a fertilizer.

Cyanates can be prepared from cyanuric acid (OTC as pool chlorine stabilizer) according to GB710143. Quick summary of the patent: powdered alkali carbonates are mixed with powdered cyanuric acid and heated to about 520 C. If this is done in a carbon dioxide atmosphere, there is no detectable amount of cyanide formed. The reaction is carried out in a closed steel vessel at atmospheric pressure. Only about 2/3 of the stoichiometric amount of alkali carbonate should be used. If more carbonate is used, some remains unconverted to cyanate. If less is used, some ammonium carbonate and other products form.

Here's a recommended prep of potassium cyanate. It uses KHCO3 instead of K2CO3 because the deliquescent K2CO3 impedes thorough mixing.

Powder in a mortar 16 g (1.3 mol) dry urea crystals. Add in portions 20 g (1 mol) KHCO3, and mix as intimately as possible with the powdered urea. Transfer the mixture to a porcelain baisin which is then heated with a free flame, the temperature being gradually raised until the contents of the basin are just fused. A brisk effervescence then develops, but after only a short duration rather abruptly ceases. This crude cyanate is quite likely good enough for many uses. But if you're a perfectionist...

The clear melt is now tested for absence of carbonate: remove a drop on the end of a glass rod, allow it to solidify, and dissolve it in 2-3 ml of water. Add aqueous BaCl2; if no precipitate forms in a few minutes, the melt is carbonate-free. If carbonate is still present, add 0.2-0.5 g of urea to the melt.

After the melt tests negative for carbonate, heat is removed and the basin is swirled as it cools so that the cyanate forms a thin layer which spontaneously separates from the basin as it cools. The crude cyanate (15.3 g) is powdered, mixed with its own weight of water, rendered alkaline with a few drops of aqueous K2CO3, and all carefully heated to 50 C while being briskly stirred. When only a small amount of solid remains undissolved, the solution is quickly filtered by suction. 50 ml of 95% ethanol is added to the solution, and the mixture cooled by ice. The separated crystals of cyanate are filtered by suction, washed with ethanol, and dried in vacuo. Yield of recrystallized salt, 10 g.

Uncle Fester says somewhere in SOMM that PPA can be made from benzaldehyde and alanine simply by heating the two together until CO2 evolution ceases. Hmmm. Cinnamon oil -> benzaldehyde, benzaldehyde -> PPA, PPA -> 4-MAR. OTC, and so simple that even pill-cooks might be able to do it. Is this the Next Big Drug Problem just waiting to happen?

 


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