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dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-13-02 13:16 No 308074	World's Easiest Fast Clean	Bookmark Reply
	World’s Easiest Clean. This post is dedicated to Strike, whose goal was to tweak the Giant’s nose by making obvious that the WOD won’t work: let a thousand labs bloom. Thanks to Honeysmoker for posting his extraction for 120's, and PlastiK for reminding of the “condom separation”, and thanks to my own inattentiveness for failing to notice that the hats which Honeysmoker spoke about were the “real net” type, and not the Tyvek ones which I assumed. By time I got straightened around on that issue, I had Tyvak on the brain, so I did an experiment.. TOO easy, goodby to PP/SS (for this application): goodby “the cure”: so long tetrachlorobugjuice,even... Sorry Ware: ^{(hey you never called me back??)} Obtain knowledge of the different types of Tyvek.. “Tyvek®® is formed by a fully integrated process using continuous and very fine fibers of 100 percent high-density polyethylene that are randomly distributed and nondirectional” Go to [http://www.dupont.com/packaging/products/tyv_tips.html].. Now go to your friendly post office, or mail room, or FedExpressly for you store, and obtain a largish mailing envelope. Extract a flat panel by cutting down the seam on the back and along the bottom.. Make two equal size rectangles, cutting off the adhesive part. Obtain a 12 oz empty pickle jar, or similar. Some dweebs may elect to use a beaker, but that is because they are effete slobs with no imagination. Using a long tool, preferably a table knife held by the blade, push the rectangle you have cut into the pickle jar. You now have one of very few Tyvek lined pickle jars in all of creation. The rectangle is large enough that the edges and ends protrude.. Into the center of this rare and wondrous artifact, place your GUP’s. Did I mention that you should link together about three feet of rubber bands? I DIDN’T? Bad me.. Link together about 3' of rubber bands. Carefully pick up your pouch of powder, and squeeze the Tyvek and it’s contents into a ball. (Twist the top “ends” to do this..) At THAT point, then, wrap the rubber bands around the “pigtail”, and run the windings down the pigtail until the ball of GUP’s is a tight little sucker.. Put it back in the pickle jar and cover with cheapo $8/gal mixed alkies from the hardware store... Let it sit for 6 to 8 hours, remove, and evap the alky.. How hard was THAT? If you are a purist, you may want to wash in ‘tone: up to you. The Tyvek with it’s high strength and (approx) 5 millionths pores in it can resist the osmotic force that builds up inside. This is a huge advantage, keeping the forces constrained, as it helps transport the salts inside, to the liquid outside. (Features a condom has not got..) Fortunately a salt is what we be looking for. The tiny volume into which you have compressed it also makes for a good ratio of volume, in comparing the volume inside the pouch, as compared with the exterior alkie volume, with concomittant transport advantages. This technique has significant benefits to the environment, in obviating many solvents that are pollutants... and Health and Safety advantages to you from lessened solvent exposure. And it works like a charm. My work here is derivative: thanks for the use of the Hive Mind.. The technique was tried on 2 batches: already white, and deredded.. (BRRITKU). Bitchin’, I must say.... dwarfer^{Hey Marge: run out and buy some DuPont stock, willya?}



Coitus (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 14:01 No 308090	You must be shitting me,,,,,,You mean I've been ...	Bookmark Reply
	You must be shitting me,,,,,,You mean I've been evaporating gallons of solvent for nothing.......... Yields please?????? Your talking about them weird plastic/paper envelopes right?? COITUS



VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 14:20 No 308096	We told ya...	Bookmark Reply
	A few of us bees have been using this method for a while on the gaked 120's, but no one gave it much attention. Thank You Dwarfer for tweeking the process and Thank You Honeysmoker for being persistent and not letting others discourage you. It's this kind ingenuity we need more of around here. Great work Guys & Gals Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 14:25 No 308101	Casting Spells	Bookmark Reply
	Back in December...the truth be known...Ibee didn't think that this method could possibly work across the board on all formulations and especially on the ones they had yet to hit us with...(AquaGelShyte) that followed soon after Honeysmoker's Post! Thare were too many branches on the speriment tree to even consider climbing down from the HIGH perch upon which I roosted! Read wareami: "Re: the GUT extraction" (Stimulants) Dwarfer...HoneySmoker is a chick I believe and I personally would like to vote that she gets a Karma point for following through with the advise as suggested by Unob and myself...and to tell the truth...I thought I detected a note of arrogance in her posts regarding this and months had past since I saw any subsequent posting by her! So for tenacity, dilegence and hard work...I vote that she get some good Karma for efforts invested and working for the good of the Hive community! _{Dwarfer...Ibee was too busy talking to the owls to call back!} Great work as usual and thanx to Honeysmoker and all who persevere! Well...it's time to trade the interNET in for that hairNET Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-13-02 14:42 No 308117	tweaking	Bookmark Reply
	Except for trying to figger out why those 120's swole up for honeysmoker, the idea would never have dawned. The condom idea works, but not nearly as well as this. Think of another really strong flexible cloth with tiny holes in it.. Why, maybe really fine nylon would work, or Gortex even better. Definitely worth a try.. A condom should be tried again, too: but restrict it with rubber bands like the Tyvek, so that the volume ratio can be maintained. It would be interesting to know how much pressure is inside the GUP ball: it gets damned tight, I'll tell ya.. When you pull it out, try to squeeze some excess alcohol out.. NEGATORY! no way... You may want to soak the Tyvek in alky for a while to wash out some of the red letter ink.. Otherwise, you will have "pink precursor": not that it hurts anything.. The Tyvek will sustain at least 3 trials: probably many more.. I tried a Vodka pull, but got some garbage. Obviously the water does not help. But, it was easily cleaned up with one 'tone wash.. This is a major blow to the poly-ampholyte debasers. dwarfer



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-13-02 14:51 No 308119	I thought the same thing	Bookmark Reply
	Ware: I had the same reaction, and in the same thread said it probably would be "source sensitive", which it definitely is without the tight wrap/small hole cover fabric. And you make a good point: other compoundments which have .HCl salts in them would similarly be burped across the membrane.. In fact, I think that that will be the compounder's only response to this technique: that, and making access even tighter than the 3 bottle max curently imposed.. Get it while you can. Sorry, honeysmoker, if I got yer gender wrong.. Hell, no WONDER you know so much about teabags...<<SEXIST PIG SEXIST PIG>> dwarfer



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 15:53 No 308144	Haaahaaahhaaaa!	Bookmark Reply
	Ibee is in the process as we speak of growing some bigger balls...as if they weren't big enough already.... But since he has yet to visit the SCRUB room, as he is in the broken LIMB room now,_{(and NOOOO! This has nothing to do with trees/branchdoods/shadowpeeps!!!)} he will begin repairing that which was fractured and held together by some Gello`E substance with the aid of cast material that he can have all the onlookers sign with thare telescopePENS! BWHaaahhhahhhahhahhahha! Plaster Of Paris!!!!! WEEWEE Monsiour! Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 16:08 No 308153	PRESsure!!!	Bookmark Reply
	Just one question....Do ya think the Pressure Will BRAKE Ibee's BALLS???? Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 16:43 No 308173	sounds to good	Bookmark Reply
	this bee will for sure try this method but would like some more info on the envelope he will be puchasing, would this be the brown type with plactic lining or the white type with plactic lining ? also this soak will be any type alky cleaner {methenol is choice}or what is recomended ? "why say something that will only make you look smarter then you are"



lowtech (Old Timer) 05-13-02 17:31 No 308183	I think white	Bookmark Reply
	Yah know those jumpers at the BIG home centers are Ty. AsFarAsIKnow. -lt _{My statement; Academic - adj:theoretical without having practical use}Herding cats.



coglib (Newbee) 05-13-02 18:23 No 308189	clarity	Bookmark Reply
	so this is to bee used on ANY 120's? are there certain ingrediants to bee avoided with this procedure? Does this make things clean enough for the rp/I enthusiast?



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 19:40 No 308199	Brown or White (nose)Knows....You Pick!!!	Bookmark Reply
	Handsfull:Since the mechanics behind this principal have yet to be discussed...it leaves plenty of room for further individual investigation... Now we all know that you are not the Handholding type as your hands are already Full times two! Since most postal envelopes are usually colored for Identification and sorting purposes, one could reasonably speculate that either color would suffice...If you happen to get one that doesn't contain the tyvek stuff...you'll have one less greenback to play the lottery with! One the Alky tip...since we don't know if the h20 assists or deters the release of the amine while in this environment, I would just use what you have normally used in the past for extractions...first without drying and then if desired results aren't achieved, then try with a dry alky! These latest formulas are still finicky in the SWIM remember..... coglib: According to honeysmokers reports, this principal has been tested on many different varieties... There would be only one formulation that I would hold in question and that would be any that contain povidone... Why you ask? Well...it's like this! The very nature of the povidone usually carries over til the very end and is not recognized until the final clean-up, which at that point would be too late to reverse it's denaturing/yieldfoiling effects... Lowtech: Thanks for the tip! "HONEY...fetch my OVERALLS! Will Ya?" Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



lowtech (Old Timer) 05-13-02 21:00 No 308221	Oh YAH	Bookmark Reply
	There would be only one formulation that I would hold in question and that would be any that contain povidone... Weellll. Looks loke a good place to experiment with that jar of mixedup red hots. Some have been thru a pepper mill (new), some a coffee grinder; there is red in there too. And, some are easy pills ( just a MeOH pull) and some are povidone (cure please). ICKY, but a good test. Will use MeOH. Going to use 1 standard white envlope (test A) and one of those jumpers I-think-i-saw (test B). Guess so. -lt Edit: spelling _{My statement; Academic - adj:theoretical without having practical use}Herding cats.



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 22:16 No 308239	pick	Bookmark Reply
	wareami you crack me up..... but I seem to listen so keep on crackin......... Handsfull:Since the mechanics behind this principal have yet to be discussed...it leaves plenty of room for further individual investigation... Now we all know that you are not the Handholding type as your hands are already Full times two! Since most postal envelopes are usually colored for Identification and sorting purposes, one could reasonably speculate that either color would suffice...If you happen to get one that doesn't contain the tyvek stuff...you'll have one less greenback to play the lottery with . I tried the lottery and lost the only dollar I had at the time' seems I have better luck watching others win.. I have made a lot of mistakes in this life and found it to bee wiser if you have all your facts before playing . I would have to agree that this process needs more reserch and defining but it sounds like it has a lot of potential. The wheels are turning in this old bee's head and thinks the bottom line can bee improved . "why say something that will only make you look smarter then you are"



VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 23:28 No 308263	Roll your own	Bookmark Reply
	Dwarfer / Wareami: SWIVE has also had good success using your basic jumbo basket coffee filters and wire ties. What SWIVE would do is layout two filters 3/4 overlapping. He would place a pile a GUP in the center of the first filter, fold in the sides, then roll the hole thing up like an egg roll or a burito. SWIVE then secured the roll with three wire ties around the roll and 1 tie up and down the roll. The rolls swell up and buldge around the wire ties after soaking but hold together well. So is it the membrane, the pressure? I'm not sure, just know that SWIVE says this works too. One more observation, Keeping the alky warm, not hot, appears to help speed up the proccess slightly. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-13-02 23:56 No 308269	Equilibrium	Bookmark Reply
	WOW, What an incredible brakethru! Speaking of brakes, anybody wanna buy a couple 'a cases of brakleener? Man, SWIP is so excited that he's gonna pop 100 boxes (for educational purposes only) & give Tyvex a whirl. Several questions come to mind: 1)Should there bee a maximum size to this ball b4 it's less effective towards the center? 2)Any ideas about ratios (gal OH/100 boxes)? LT, Jumpers? Are you referring to clothing? At that BIG clearance store? What a Long, Srange Trip it's Been



SALTiGOT (Newbee) 05-14-02 00:18 No 308276	memories "the day"	Bookmark Reply
	years ago,when swis was being carried around by his great uncle(electron).it was common to see just a nature pull.nener thought it would be heard of again,with so few changes.would really like to know the psi of the egg. great work!(that comes from the heart!) maby this will be rembered sa "the day" have tank will travel



Dexter (Stranger) 05-14-02 11:19 No 308454	great to know	Bookmark Reply
	WAW, SWIM didn't know the mechanical theory of the GUT extraction was that important: goodbye teabag, although a wet teabag seems te resist a lot of pressure. Is a envelope made from tyvek not to stiff? a tyvek disposable protection clothing seems in swims eyes more appealing.



fierceness (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 13:16 No 308486	clear	Bookmark Reply
	just so i'm clear, this method is really only useful for the extended release types, and not the little 30mg red hots right? or will this method give pure sudo if you de-red the little 30 mg's, crush em up and put them in the tyvek, and use the teabag method ? will the wax thats soluble in alcohol come through with it?



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 13:23 No 308490	GotDamn!!!!!!!!	Bookmark Reply
	Okey Dokey....thare are too many too respond to at once and Ibee never tries to speak for his elders... So when realizing cognatively that wareami is out of his mind....it will be easy to assimilate that which makes sense and that which is 100% BUNK.......BEDS! A'gin...no disrespect intended!!!!! FUCK...wARE were we!!! Ibee will be back to redress the qurestions at hand! Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 15:01 No 308524	Tyvek Jumpers	Bookmark Reply
	About how much do the Tyvek Jumpers cost and could one locate them at some place that rhymes with Dome Heepo? The unlimited capacity for verbal flatulence is your divine birth right.



lowtech (Old Timer) 05-14-02 15:16 No 308531	jumper price	Bookmark Reply
	I am going to a coupl of the BIG home centers for misc stuff, boardfeet, roof glue, sack of something, nails... Will let all know. Might be a day or so.. -lt _{My statement; Academic - adj:theoretical without having practical use}Herding cats.



coglib (Newbee) 05-14-02 15:42 No 308543	swim is testing procedure 1/2 gup, 1/2 whole ...	Bookmark Reply
	swim is testing procedure 1/2 gup, 1/2 whole pills. All 120mg 12 hours generic, no povidone. 2 containers, 20 pills each container. One yellow bottle (NOT dried or distilled, straight from the bottle ~355ml meoh each container). wrapped in 3 coffee filters each, tied with twist ties. Note: right off the bat, gup packet sunk while whole pills floated but when checked on 3 hours later, they too had sunk. Will post tommarow after pills have soaked 12 hrs and have been evapped. will report all the way through to end of rxn (12 hr reflux nano so's there isnt too much variablity and everything gets reacted) anyone else wanna post variations so's we can push through all variables and make this (hopefully) great thing even greater?



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-14-02 15:58 No 308552	Tyvek	Bookmark Reply
	Tyvek cloth/fabric/paper is at the locations mentioned. It looks like medium grade white paper, but you cannot tear it nohow, noway. I am surprised that coffee filters would work at all, but I'm quite sure they would not work as well. Think about the 120's that started the chain of thought. There they are rolling through your gut, or sitting in your tea bag, with diffusion and osmotic pressures transporting the active ingredient into your intestines,for further passage mediated by the same mechanisms, into your blood stream, or thru the tiny hole to the external alcohol surrounding your tea bag... Meanwhile, the little plastic capsule gets all distended by internal pressure? (scene change) In the condom separation, placing your GUP's into the skin, closing or tying off the open end and putting it in the water is fairly simple. Leave it be, fer a few days, and check it out... Viola: the skin is distended maximally, stiff as your basic erectile member: not yours, honeysmoker, the guys... How dat happen? Well, asking and answering those questions is what "science" is all about, right? And we're all here because we jus' loves "pure science"... So anyway, back to the coffee filters: beecause they lack any significant "burst srength" they will expand when the internal pressure pushes, and therefore forego the benefit of internal pressure helping motivate any salts that want to migrate to 'tother side of the semi-permeable-membrane which in fact the Tyvak pouch is... Efflourescence, the whitish salt deposits that frequently form on concrete walls of basements arises from similar factors. Next time I go to a thrift store, I'm going to find the cheapest piece of surplus clothing with the tightest weave nylon thread, and sacrifice it in the name of science, too. Unless one of you respected fellow scientists beats me to it. <<gotta steal another envelope from the shipping department.. dwarfer



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-14-02 17:21 No 308580	osmotic pressure	Bookmark Reply
	Before calculating the pressure inside the bag, check out: [http://www.luc.edu/faculty/afitch/chap12/d/sld001.htm] dwarfer



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 19:06 No 308610	YukYukGakk!	Bookmark Reply
	Viola: the skin is distended maximally, stiff as your basic erectile member: not yours, honeysmoker, the guys... Heyyyyy...Wait a rootentooten minute thare....I betcha Honeysmoker has no probs with engorgement!!!! Well...just guessin anEways! But seriously...in the interest of science and the need to NOSE.... What the hell is goin on here with this newest matrix and this method of extraction? Is water a preferred additive or not? Will h20 in small amounts be the vehicle which activates the movement<^____(Ball...........not Bowel!!!)or are we looking to dunk a few DRY DRUNKS here? If so...Mr.Epsom and kin are ready for the BarBQueOVEN! Now....before I redress the above posts with some decorative fancy smartalekisms, Dwarfer???? You never did answer the plaster of paris-isms proposed....Sheeeeeesh...Do I have to do everything on my own to arrive at definative answers?(Don't answer that!!!!) Okay.....I like this thread...mainly because it reeks of participation and comraderie...something that hasn't been seen in quite some time...It's almost tempting just to throw some disagreement in the mix to make it feel like old times!!! But since I'm not a masochist....we'll just keep GOing with the FLOW! Tidal-wavely he's gonna pop 100 boxes P2M: Now I see why they call ya Payintoomuch!!!! Ibee would suggest that you do a trial run on 5 boxes first but he knows you won't listen so he won't suggest that! Good to see ya.... Fierceness: It is hard to say because they have a few formulations on the market and my guess would be that it would depend on the construction method/inactive list as to what is going to follow the amine through this membrain wall! This is one reason why the NervousBrakeDown Kidz are trying to develope a plaster of paris technique that may exclude some of the junk hitchhikers...if thare are any that is! Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 19:20 No 308615	that old nylon tent laying around	Bookmark Reply
	swim is going to try using parts of his camping tent fabric seems the old tent has seen better days anyway so why not put it some use .. and thinks the chemical that they used to waterproof it has got to bee gone by now atleast he hopes..... ps .. wonder if swim puts the tightly rolled up package and the alky in one of those round plactic hard balls that you add fabric softner to, you know the ones that dispense the fabric softner in the washing machine.... but instead take and add to the dryer on low heat and let it tumble for awhile ..course sealed so no leaks would ruin his day. what do you think? let ya know how it works..... "why say something that will only make you look smarter then you are"



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 19:34 No 308624	DukDukGoose!Camping wit the animules!	Bookmark Reply
	That sounds pretty hip thare handsfull.... Hey? Has anEbees tried pantyhoes? It seems that the expandability issues should apply here and tharefore would make the hoes a good candydate!!!!! Ibee is still stuck on the plasterball thingy so he can't apply these other potential candydates yet....it's not that he is lazy....just posing some other possibilities! Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 20:06 No 308638	You Got That Right!	Bookmark Reply
	P2M: Now I see why they call ya Payintoomuch!!!! Ibee would suggest that you do a trial run on 5 boxes first but he knows you won't listen so he won't suggest that! Good to see ya.... Right you are my friend, but when SWIP's hot he's hot. And in Belize, he's always hot!!! Thinking of moving back to Peru where the mountains give some relief from the cold. SWIP ain't never done nuthin' small... as a matter of fact every time he see's NANO he gets nausious & wants to vomit. So, I'll apologize for his "bull in a china closet" method of research. When he loses, he loses big. When he wins, he wins big. Lately he's been winning more than losing, which makes him much more pleasant to bee around. As a matter of fact, his experiences with 100 box rxns have been phenomenal of late, with over 80% returns consistently. OK, dudes, how would you like for me to tell you where you can go within 5 miles of your makeshift lab & get all the fuckin' TYVEK envelopes you want, ABSOLUTELY FREE? Look no further than your uncle & tell him that TYVEK envelopes are a big PRIORITY for you. He'll give you all the fuckin' bags you can carry. BTW, SWIP asked if Mrs. P2M had any panty hose he could use. At first I was afraid he was gonna start cross-dressing. VERY AFRAID This sonofabitch would make Rue Paul look like Tatoo on fantasy island. WOW, he'd bee one ugly bitch. Thankfully he reminded me of his desire to try them for extraction... whew what a relief! He says he's trying redz & whites, but he swore of those fucked-up 120's about a year ago. And to answer the fellow about the GUPs staying dry... dry is a term we use to depict anhydrous... and no, it wouldn't stay dry it just wouldn't be wet. No, that's not it... The GUPs would be wet, but they would also bee dry. YEP, I think thats it... unless you don't apply your dried epsoms to the OH, in which case they would bee wet but not dry. GOT IT? What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 20:39 No 308645	Absolfuckinlutely!!!	Bookmark Reply
	How freakin right you are P2M!!!!!!!!! Never thought of it til you mentioned it but remember doing business that way in the past!! Great Tip!!!Thanx DOOD!!! Okay....I won't use the "N" word...but as you know...The Kidz have had no choice but to do "N's" because of the massive scales of experimentation and different types of manipulations...It really does suck though when I think about it cause of all the enjoyment missed out on like sitting on top of a half OZ and such... If this newest method pans out...The Kidz will put away thare bags of tricks and start playing in the bigger sandbox and stay up later watching the pretty branches SWAYAWAY!!! Tao: Yes you are getting it!!!!!Or you will be.....we all hope! Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 22:27 No 308671	Tyvek and more...	Bookmark Reply
	Hey guy & gals, SWIVE had some time to experiment some more. Yes Dwarfer the coffee filter worked but only because He doubled it and bound it up with wire ties. But enough about that SWIVE wanted to get on the Tyvek band wagon so he got some of his favorite overnight bags and got busy. SWIVE was out of 120's and being the generally lazy ass he is tried two different substances. The first was some gunked up extraction material left over from a failed ephedra fiasco. An oily/waxy brown powder. Wraped it in Tyvek and gave it an alky bath for 4 hrs with a gentle heat. He then evaporated the alky down and crashed out with tone producing a fluffy white powder. About a 50% recovery from the otherwise unusable muck. SWIVE is dying to try some clean 8% extract as he's thinking this may be a viable route for that vile messy goo we dream of using. Experiment 2 - Ritalin. SWIVE had about 30 time release 2omg ritalin tablets that had been sitting around so throwing caution to the wind He coarsly ground then up, put them into a new Tyvek bubble and soaked em. This time though he used 100% methanol and soaked for 6 hrs. Got back a pure white crystaline coating after evaporating a sample on a piece of sheetglass. Scraped up with a razor blade and it powdered into nice little lines. No yeild cause SWIVE hasn't evaped it all yet, but the bio assy was sweet! May need to go see his ADD doc again. later Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-14-02 23:03 No 308680	camping	Bookmark Reply
	so much for my tent idea....... honey can I have those panty oooo's I'll get ya a new pair tomorow I promise. 'I've seen tommorow and it looks like today'



Jetson (Hive Bee / Eraser) 05-15-02 07:26 No 308788	yup	Bookmark Reply
	wareami- as jetson said earlier in this post(was it this post, hmm...) his dog astro tried panty hose(did he mention that, hmm...) and just plain ole h2o on some nasty 60mg pills that had all the trip. hcl. and povidone shite in them and well. got back nearly %100 but had to clean the shite up afterwards cause the trip and pov followed over as well. ^{the devil is so lonely}



coglib (Newbee) 05-15-02 07:33 No 308792	the results of swims experiment with full fills ...	Bookmark Reply
	the results of swims experiment with full fills vs gups are not completly in yet. However, he suspects there is problems. Possibly he didnt wrap the pills good enough or what he does not know. He felt pretty sure they were wrapped properly when he started, but either way his dish is NOT filled with stacked needles. Granted he used Mild heat to evap the methanol, but it was mild and he believes he should have gotten more than a smooth clear-gray (with some white crusties) surface. Tastes good though. He will do an ice-cold acetone wash when the other (whole pill) tray is finished evapping. He does see a few crystals in his whole pill tray though (that trays not done evapping due only to different surface area 'cause swim used two different sized dishes to evap). He did notice that both packets were quite stiff when he pulled them outta the methanol. Squeezing them didnt really produce much of anything although he thought the whole pill packet squeezed just a little, but he didnt know if that was because the pills were rubbing together. maybee coffee filters are not the way to go- beeing that one would have to wrap them just right and/or there may bee too much variance in pore size bepending on thickness of the filters. Swim also noticed that the gup packet would "sneeze" dust when it was dry. Through the paper (however, that coulda been paper dust, but swim highly doubts it). edit: FAILURE!!! when the 'crystals' finally evapped to absolute dryness, there was NOT that dry, sandy texture that comes with clean pseudo. There is definatly some gak that came over. Swim will retry same test with that tyvex material.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-15-02 12:14 No 308886	further conjecture	Bookmark Reply
	I really enjoy “participatory” ventures like this too: random testing of all possibilities must include the best, eventually, eh wat? At least a few of the above experiments probably are not in accord with the fundamentals of the process (as I understand them) as explained in that slide-based url I mentioned above. The following conjectures are my opinions only and in fact may not be right: but if I worried about being absolutely right, I’d never post nuffin. So: Transport across the membrane is critically impacted by pore size.. The pore size of the Tyvek is probably not optimal _{(and varies, depending on the use of the Tyvak, which is engineered by the manufacturer to meet application specifications: the Tyvek “moon suits”, “hair nets” “:<), and envelopes probably each have differing pore size characteristics...)} but it works for this application. If the material from which the membrane is made is not highly resistive to stretching and bursting, the internal pressure will stretch it, nd increase the pore size, as well as reducing the reverse flow pressure impetus carrying the salt out... Therefore, canvas (like the coffee filters) is probably not optimal because of stretching and pore size enlargement... The alcohol (I believe) is less effective at dissolving and transporting the crud than water, and the pseudo is so niftily soluble in either that it happily gets carried by both. Therefore alcohol extract should be cleaner than water. My experiment with vodka, 20% water, bears me out on this: although it was a “second pull” and thus suspect as regards the tentative conclusion. Further testing may well prove me wrong on this one. Many proprietary SPM’s used in various applications (such as desalinization plants) use composite material laminated membranes: one component carries the pressure load; the other does the selective transport duty. By functional definition, a condom has the “right size pores” but it is not likely to carry the load of pressure this application demands without stretching. Therefore, consideration should be given to making our own composite, with a GUP filled condom wrapped in Tyvek, and rubber band wrapped as above. Whether this would work better with alcohol or water, I do not know: I would guess alcohol, but may be wrong. It would be slower, (this composite..)but be even more complete in it’s selective transport of pseudo salt..... (Note that coffee filters, canvas, your main squeeze’s panties, toilet paper, table linen, and clothes dryer lint may be used as well when backed up by Tyvek or other similar material. (Like nylon fabric.) Although warm alcohol will make faster work than room temperature alcohol, I suspect that more complete separation would eventuate in the refrigerator, although it would take longer. Again, experiments will show the way. I do not think calcium sulphate will come across: with water it should form a “cast” (as it hydrates) which would not preclude osmotic transport of the salts of interest. What it does with alcohol?? Damned if I know, probably a less bound version of the same thing. When you get yer Tyvek, put it across your pie-hole and blow... After each extractive use, wash the sucker and give it the same test. When it starts passing more air, fling it away and get a new piece, ‘cuz de holes be getting more bigger, which you don’t want, yeah? Great gifs, Ware! dwarfer



lowtech (Old Timer) 05-15-02 14:12 No 308924	Jumpers - the price	Bookmark Reply
	Tyvec overall -- Well, $10.00 for a large and 13.50 for x-large. -lt _{My statement; Academic - adj:theoretical without having practical use}Herding cats.



Hematite (Individual) 05-15-02 14:39 No 308933	Involuntary!	Bookmark Reply
	Just cant help but be impressed people, well done. Regards, Hematite.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-15-02 15:38 No 308943	Horrendous Post	Bookmark Reply
	Damn Horrendous-tite, that's sweet, comin' from an ol' horse like you..<neigh, nay> he cried video editor said approximately: SWIVE was out of 120's and being the generally lazy ass he is tried two different substances. The first was some gunked up extraction material left over from a failed ephedra fiasco. An oily/waxy brown powder. Wraped it in Tyvek and gave it an alky bath for 4 hrs with a gentle heat. He then evaporated the alky down and crashed out with tone producing a fluffy white powder. About a 50% recovery from the otherwise unusable muck. SWIVE is dying to try some clean 8% extract as he's thinking this may be a viable route for that vile messy goo we dream of using. May I presume that the fiasco had had the freebase alkaloids changed to the salt by acidification? If it was still in the natural freebase: a. I would be happy as hell for the information b. I would have to re-study how this methodology works, because I currently think it would not..?? thanks dwarfer



goiterjoe (Title on BackOrder) 05-15-02 15:54 No 308955	why's that dwarfer	Bookmark Reply
	freebase ephedrine is soluble in alcohol, so it would pull over.



VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 05-15-02 16:15 No 308966	It's so Salty...	Bookmark Reply
	dwarfer : your assumption as per usual is correct. I treated the ephedra muck with HCL prior to the re extraction attempt. Also the 50% recovery was not based on the weight of the muck but on the expected alkyloids to be still in the muck. O-wise-one how do you think fresh 8% extract will do? coglib: forget I ever mentioned to coffee filter thing. It is to variable and everyone will have different results. Try your test again with some overnight envelopes. They Rock Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits



SALTiGOT (Newbee) 05-15-02 16:15 No 308967	paint suits	Bookmark Reply
	swis,is working on profesionsl painting coveralls. will have some [blue]news[black] to report later. they are white and very strong<can't tare em> free of charge if you ask nicely! have tank will travel



scarface (Hive Bee) 05-15-02 17:15 No 308990	TYVEK SOURCE	Bookmark Reply
	Tyvek is also used to insulate houses befor the siding is installed. If a new devlopement is going up it is all over the ground as scraps for free. Oops...THERE GOES MY KIDS ALL OVER YOUR FACE...



ZingoBingo (Hive Bee) 05-15-02 17:28 No 308995	PCBomb	Bookmark Reply
	Unfortunately the methinfo site is unable to post any graphics at the moment so I'll just be as descriptive as can bee. A number of tool companies have developed fine electrical orbit sanders with what appears to be hard bodied charcoal dust containers. The container is made of a composite material (not charcoal)that allows air to pass through but retains sanding dust. The retained dust is so fine that most finishers save the dust from their exotic woods to be made into filler and such. The container is 4" high with a 2" id. It holds 150ml of "dust". The container has a detachable hard top that is impervious to solvent. The top has two "O" rings that seal the top as it is inserted back into the hard body after removing the "dust". The top of the hard top has a 1" id molded entrance neck that slides onto the exhuast port of the orbit sander. A 1" hamster water feeder stopper fits nicely in the neck. Additionaly, a flexable hard plastic one way flapper valve is incorporated between the transition of the 2" O-ringed hardbody top to the 1" inlet neck. It allows air/dust to enter the collection chamber but not back up into the neck or into the sander's exhaust port. Of course being semi-permiable, liquids can pass through the chamber walls but solids remain behind. Couldn't tell ya what the smallest micron that is held back but I would think that the benifit of the PCbomb would be as an external housing for the lamb skin sausage. It would go something like this: Remove the double O-rings from the hard top and discard. Drill small diameter hole into center of flapper valve (same size as glass tube that comes with hamster water feeder) Insert stopper with "bent" glass tubing. Fill lambskin sausage with goodies & tie off. Insert sausage into collection chamber. Insert hard top with 1" stopper & glass tubing into mouth of collection chamber. Criss cross a couple of zip ties or ss tie wire across the hard top to bottom of collection chamber. Set complete assembly in mason jar. Connect reinforced resiliant tubing from inverted plastic nalgene fuel bottle to "bent" glass tube extending from stopper. Viola ! It's the IV drip/PCbomb/mason jar extraction method. Obviously, one can construe the apparatus in just about any conceivable form that benefits the users needs. The key, of course, is the collection chamber. It restrains the expanding Lambskin sausage but allows liquid to pass trhough. It can be ordered any where black, red, green yellow, black & grey power sanders are sold. For instance; replacement dust container #875403 and Flange & valve assembly #876636. Go to any of the power tool web sites and you'll see it clear as day. On the other hand perhaps one could utilize a 10" industrial polpropylene filter housing for $16 and a 50 micron doublewrapped thread filter for $2.50. Instead of gravity feed (slow) hook up the compressor! ZB



zibarium (Hive Addict) 05-15-02 17:36 No 309000	vaccuum filtration in reverse?	Bookmark Reply
	might the osmotic pressure bee applied artificially? tyvek's fiber arrangement reminds me of a particular brand of paper towels that fudgemonkey claimed would cleanly filter gakk juice. cool work, dwarfer!



dchef (Hive Bee) 05-15-02 17:42 No 309006	paper towels	Bookmark Reply
	These paper towels will indeed cleanly filter the remaining gak after pills have been soaked and solvent decanted. With a little imagination a pressure device for speedy filtering can bee built for 3 or 4 USD minus pump of course as swim posted beefore. It is by far the fastest cleanest used by swim to date. Of course this tyvex is high on the list of things to try next.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-15-02 17:52 No 309014	containers	Bookmark Reply
	ZB, the dust collector idea may work. Any volume not filled by GUP should be filled with ??marbles?? lead shot?? or whatever.. On the other hand, wrapping in Tyvek or nylon fabric and rubber bands might be easier... ================== By this time, more results should be coming in in re different compoundments...??? <hope... dwarfer



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 05-15-02 20:15 No 309116	Ghetto Soxhlet?	Bookmark Reply
	Swim owns two Soxhlet Extraction tubes. One with a 35/45 top and corresponding Allihn condenser and one with a 45/50 top and frtted thimble insert peice. Swim still hasn't yet educated himself on proper use of these items but at least has read a few theories about their use. It nearly sounds like what is developing here though is something that is closely along the lines of ghetto Soxhlet extraction. Albeit without the continuous distilling nature of the real Soxhlet process. Or does swim have his understanding of Soxhlet theory all bassackwards? The unlimited capacity for verbal flatulence is your divine birth right.



pandemonium (Hive Addict) 05-15-02 20:24 No 309123	Selective	Bookmark Reply
	Osmosis can be very selective, ass uming the other factors are in order, (that would bee the problem with the coffee filter parallel, most likely, not really an osmotic process) this thread kicks ass, BTW. I would not piss on BLow_Jack, to put him out, if he was on fire in the street...



goiterjoe (Title on BackOrder) 05-15-02 21:07 No 309149	my money's on ass backwards	Bookmark Reply
	Soxphlet extractors work on the principle of azeotropic distillation, not solvent solubility.



geezmeister (Hive Bee) 05-15-02 21:11 No 309151	impressed	Bookmark Reply
	Geez is once again completely amazed by the Big D's discoveries! Finally! A use for dryer lint! Who would ever have thought of it? Well, besides Dwarfer. And just when SWIG finally got that pressure filter fitting from the railroad spiker to use as pp doing some ss. SWIG said after reading Big D's doings and rereading the notes from honeysmoker (founder and charter member of the Hairnet Sanitization and Purification League of America) he stumbled upon his multiple striped authentic genuine United States Postal Service Priority Mail tyvek envelope and simply could not resist the unbearable temptation to make the United States Postal Service a partner in crime! HOT DAMN WAS HE A HAPPY TWEAKER! Will his Bushness be upset when they discover they are furnishing the filter of choice to the geezers of America???? Damn, this is better than a free lunch!!!!! Okay... so one beaker of alcohol (the one with the 50 120's wrapped tightly, postal fashion) is now quite blue and will hopefully discolor the final product in that patriotic color. The other is disgustingly pink, but what can one expect when all that went in was 200 60's that had been acetone boiled to outwit Tripolidine --- that little leather football, er Tyvek football, will answer a couple of questions for SWIG.... Tomorrow evening we will perhaps discover the results of tonights soak and see whether there is a new meaning to the phrase GOING POSTAL! [Don't you just love the government today?] Wonder how long it will take for possession of tyvek with intent to carry twenty to life? An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



ballzofsteel (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 01:13 No 309263	Credit	Bookmark Reply
	Although not a new proposal(I remember someone telling us of this method over a year ago)Id like to thank you guys for bringing it back to life. Not meaning to take anything away from the Dwarf man,I think we should be giving Honeysmoker a little more praise and credit.After all He/she is the instigator of this latest development. Hows about those reverse osmosis membranes we use in our hydroponics sysems.These systems have 3-6 stages of filtration/equalisation chambers each chamber reducing in pore size right down to .5 micron. Gups in one end,pure alchohol the other.Somewhere inbetween your clean pseudo. Well if not using the whole system im sure the s.p.membrane used within would be a winner as this was its intended purpose.Ill report back.



honeysmoker (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 04:52 No 309325	8-O holy shit.....I havent seen this much ...	Bookmark Reply
	holy shit.....I havent seen this much attention since i got caught giving a blow job to my highschool chem teacher.... Have 12 months of test data, here's some highlights: The density of the "tea bag" is critical. Have tried various fabrics, tyveks, coffee filters, and alike. Too dense and your yield turns to shit as the psuedo has a hard time passing as well. The hairnet swih uses is able to hold water ,unless that is, she touches the bottom of the fabric that is holding the water, at which point all the water passes thru. This has been a good test to check the density of other type filters/teabags/etc. If it holds water without leaking a drip, find something more permeable, on the same basis, if h20 runs thru it effortlessly, your probably going to get some shit along with your psuedo. Have found the next runner up to hairnets is the fabric that is stapled underneath every known boxspring that we all sleep on. Only problem with this is your limited to the supply, depending on how many fucking bed boxsprings your willing to tear up! tight knot on pill ball works tits!



p2e3r4f5e6c7t8 (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 07:09 No 309366	Swim is an OZ bee and he has never herd of this ...	Bookmark Reply
	Swim is an OZ bee and he has never herd of this stuff called tyveks. In the past swim has made alot of hash using silk screens, Is all swim dose is find a suplyer for silk screen printing or silk sheeting and goes and but's some, Just go in and tell them how many meters you want. Swim has got grade 115 120 silk sheeting, you can get finer. It is super strong, So swim thought that if one was to roll up there pill mass super tight with some silk screen, and then wrap it up again with coffee fillters and then wire it all nice and compact. This is what would do, hypotheticly speaking Ask no question's, and i will tell no lies.



Hematite (Individual) 05-16-02 07:11 No 309367	I like you!	Bookmark Reply
	Honeychild you said; Blow job,tits,fucking, and bed all in the same post! Wanna fool around a bit? Regards, Hematite.



dchef (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 07:18 No 309370	coffee filters	Bookmark Reply
	Swim believes if the silk screen is fine enough to achieve its purpose the coffee filters would bee a yeild reducer, as in holding liquid. Course could bee wrong 2.



ballzofsteel (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 08:24 No 309393	Surely there is a selective membrane that only ...	Bookmark Reply
	Surely there is a selective membrane that only alows a certain sized particle/molecule to pass through.ALso surely its widely available to anyone,just like buying 200mm plywood and getting the size you ask for. Im sure there is.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-16-02 09:13 No 309415	Heme strikes again ":<)	Bookmark Reply
	_{Damn, Heme: you have a way of selecting the GOOD stuff out of a mound of dross, you horndawg..":<)} ============= I certainly tried to give credit for the combination of circumstances that pointed me in this direction, and honeysmoker's persistance in re the 120's, and describing them having become all bloatified certainly was key. Also, without appearing to badger, I hope, I invite y'all to check out that slide show! Why? There are recurring errors in your posts that demonstrate a failure to grasp the essence of the mechanism. Take a one-foot piece of your largest bore glass tubing, rubber band a piece of Tyvek across one end, invert it and fill it with 6 inches of concentrated sugar solution. Now arrange some support so that you can hang it in a bucket of water for a while, with the sugar water level exactly at the level of the plain water in the bucket. Go away and watch a movie or something.... Come back and what change will you see?? Do you know? (tick,tock,tick,tock..) The fluid level inside the tube now is significantly higher than that of the bucket. THAT force is what you want to constrain to ASSIST in the process. (reverse osmosis) That is why the RUBBER BANDS are needed to seal off the top of the ball, and that force is (part) of the reason the ball gets tight as hell after its been sitting in the fluid. So YEAH the silk is a great possibility. Its resistive of stretching is it not? I don't know the pore size, but give it a try, WTF?? Nylon too. Cotten not as good. panty hose, if backed up with something that will hold it from stretching... (maybe) Water easily dripping through the material under consideration when formed into a bag and filled with water is more an indication of either large pore size or capillary wicking... This is NOT simply a filtering process based on diffusion.. See, "GUP's in a tea bag" takes advantage of diffusion, mostly, as does "GUP's in a panty hose bag"... =\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\=========== Honeysmoker's experiment fired a light bulb because THE PLASTIC PILL NUCLEUS WAS BULGING!!!! Now several have reported that they have used that technique on 120's over the past several months: figgering out WHAT the boys in the lab did to experiment with WHAT size holes in the plastic to enable 24 hour consistant release, and extrapolate to a more general circumstance employable on a broader selection of GUPs.... That's all this is.. Like I said, it's ALL derivative. =============================== dwarfer_{it ain't rocket science but it's still fun...":<)}



dumbboy (Stranger) 05-16-02 10:37 No 309450	paracetamol	Bookmark Reply
	swim tried tykek on 3 different gups group 1 had paracetamol.tykek didn't stop the paracetamol.group 2 was 60's, group 3 was 120's. swim evaporated these slowly to see a brown oil along with the liquid goods. on higher heat crtyals formed along with a hard shinny surface. that reminds swim of events before the use of pp/ss.(the hard shinny surface is not as hard as before.) maybe the catalyst didn't get out. but the oil does look like the the tone coming out of the pp/ss. used cheap mixed alkies



pandemonium (Hive Addict) 05-16-02 10:44 No 309454	Polys	Bookmark Reply
	If the dumbass Igor is correct in his suspicions, the ALCOHOL activated polys, would not have an easy time, "osmosing" through a semipermeable membrane, since they are BIG molecules, and STICKY too... Cotton filtering was once an experimental approach, surprising how much of that crap will stay stuck, while passing thru the rest, even though that is not a feasible plan of attack, it was instructive. if you know the enemy and know yourself, the victory is not at risk. Sun Tzu



wareami (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 14:30 No 309563	Full CirKle???	Bookmark Reply
	How many of UBEES have done an Egull Wash First.... Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh? Because ya know......Dwarfer is always right in the compoundment department as far as predictability's.... Or he would have never caught the 10:15 EgullExPRESS...ON time! Peace_{of the}^re_a_c_t_i_o_n Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



dumbboy (Stranger) 05-16-02 15:43 No 309613	what is the best way to clean the oil that came ...	Bookmark Reply
	what is the best way to clean the oil that came across the tykek?



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 15:51 No 309620	The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly	Bookmark Reply
	Well, for the good. So far, the only good is the fact that the taste test on the pillstock shows that the pantyhose is a better vehicle for the soodo's trip than is the Tyvek. Not totally evapped yet, so no word on the cleanliness. The bad is, the colors (from the Tyvek Envelopes & the red from the pills) all came thru on the first pull (12-14 hours) However, not very much soodo did. OTOH, the second pull (another 14 hours on Tyvek & 8 on pantyhose) proved successful. How successful, that's the ugly. SWIP will have to try again 'cause the zealous cleaning people threw about half of it out this AM What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-16-02 17:35 No 309656	paracetamol prob	Bookmark Reply
	per Merc, acetaminophen's properties include: *Very slightly sol in cold water, considerably more sol in hot water. Sol in methanol, ethanol, dimethylformamide, ethylene dichloride, acetone, ethyl acetate. Slightly sol in ether. Practically insol in petr ether, pentane, benzene. ======================================================== Dry it up and try again with water in the refrigrator. HERE'S A PRODUCTION TECHNIQUE OF VALUE* whatever you do, hot, cold, alcohol, water, Change the fluid every two hours: or whatever frequency your intuition says is best.. You can pretty much (generally) say that what you want will be coming over first, and that there will be some other stuff eventually. So keep track of your compounds, and how you do it, and the time interval results. Soon you will have it down, and repeatable. The stuff I get? At about 68 F, in the cheapo mixed alkies 8 hours is about right. This would be for a ball containing 18-24 gms. You can get a tad more in two more hours, but it's got some wax. The next two hours is fairly worthless.... The good thing is that the wax is readily acetone removeable. NO complications. =================================== I've never ever even considered acetaminophen containing products, but the above extraction with cold water may (hopefully) be the answer. IF sombody does not try this with the condom inside Tyvek (or similar), all nicely banded off, pretty quick, I'll be first... As compared to the SLOW utilization of the condom in "the condom separation" technique, this will be probably a 12 hour soak, and REAL clean, since it has eggzactly the right "pore size".. dwarfer



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-16-02 17:46 No 309661	time too long..??	Bookmark Reply
	. The bad is, the colors (from the Tyvek Envelopes & the red from the pills) all came thru on the first pull (12-14 hours ============================ I think that's way tooooo long, Mr. Birch: even for your usual elbow runs.. Just for giggles, try it again wit' da same stock, and do a 'vap after 2 hours...(I'd remove the red, though, if it's the shiny-type covering...) That FedExpressly red doesn't seem to FU anything, though.. dwarfer



VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 05-16-02 19:25 No 309727	Aer two balls better than one?	Bookmark Reply
	Okay you hydro engineer types. Does surface area have anything to do with it? or are two balls better than one? As far as the color in the envelope, I've been evaping the alkies to syrup and crashing with tone. Gets rid of most of the color and or oils. As far as red hots, remove the red with tone and minimum DH2O a head of time. Initial tests with ephedra muck will leave you with alky the color of Guiness on Tap. Again evap to syrup and crash with tone. Lastly I can report that my test of extracting ritalin from the time release 20's was better than I could of expected. A simple tone wash after evaporation left a fine white substance wich quickly dissapeared so you'll have to wait for next time to get exact yeilds. <grin> Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-17-02 07:24 No 309938	Pushing the priority mail envelope	Bookmark Reply
	The red dye turns pink and is stubborn, but the blue dye goes purple and rinses out with acetone. The ball of 120's finally softened a little. The alcohol (MeoH) was clear but the goods were in there; acetone flashed the near dry alcohol and had to rinse with fresh acetone a few times to clear some of the reddish pink dye. The beaker with the original "flash acetone" quickly precipitated out white crystals, some on the sides and bottom, all were filtered and rinsed. The remaining acetone was chilled overnight with no additional crystal formation. There is an acrid odor to the acetone but none in the pseudo. Have not weighed it yet; will weigh after recrystalizing it. The tyvek football containing GUPs that had been acetone boiled to remove Tripolidine and were destined for an alky A/B until diverted to priority mail yielded their goodies to denatured in an overnight soak. The product was white after rinsing with acetone, looks to be clean, no crystals precipitated in the acetone used to flash when drying-- and SWIG likes that sign. Nice pile, which again will not be weighed until recrystalized this evening. The recrystalizing should give a good indication of the actual purity of what has been extracted, but at this stage it looks as clean as what is obtained by the full cure and alcohol extraction. It does not look as clean as the product of a careful alky a//b, but the 120 pearls gave a poor yield to that process the last time SWIG employed it An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



Jetson (Hive Bee / Eraser) 05-17-02 08:52 No 309967	hmmm....	Bookmark Reply
	jetson thinks he's going to get his boy elroy to do a few experiments. elroy's good like that. wants to take some of the 60mg trip povidone pills and do a panty hose soak with them in some acetone and then turps before he tries droping the pantypills into some grain(oh, letting dry as much as possible in between soaks). he figures this way that anything that's going to get through the hose should already be gone by route of acetone and turps. may also try a tetra soak too. will report any interesting findings. any comments why this will/will not help? ^{the devil is so lonely}



Kitchenmagician (Hive Bee) 05-17-02 10:11 No 309993	Maybee	Bookmark Reply
	the nylon in pantyhose won't melt. I can't remember, but I thought before anyone trys this at home and wastes some good pills I'd throw it out there. KM ps. I could bee talking out my ass on this one! Special Prayers to our fallen bees and their families :( KM



Dexter (Stranger) 05-17-02 11:50 No 310035	the wash-powder method	Bookmark Reply
	Hey all, Did you ever notice those wash-powder balls used to put in the washing machine after you filled it up with wash powder. SWIM did steel one of these balls from his mother and romoved the plasticparts from it. Only using its very finely woven net. SWIM believes this net is made from PE, its very strong and has dence parts in to give it more strength. Now swim grinded up 180 sixties to a fine powder and filled one of those nets up with this powder, and tight it with a few rubber bands. This golfball sized ball is now saoking in around 500 mils of methanol. SWIM used the same funnel which he used to fill the net with pill powder to fil his beaker with methanol. So now his methanol is a little cloudy. Making oberserving a little more difficult but swim saw these ribbels in the methalky about the same you see when you put sugar in your coffee, swim believes this is a good sign. Will let is soak for 24 hours at least, will come back with results later. Hopefully



foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 05-17-02 12:25 No 310043	thoughts	Bookmark Reply
	Tyvek Check large print shops. I have seen Tyvek used to print things like banners and posters, they are super durable. They had it in 4 or 5 foot wide rolls and I'm sure they would sell you a chunk or maybee even give you the scraps free! Or just type ""tyvek"" into google. Its all over the place. For the extraction. Try dry isopropyl, its not as fast or strong as methanol or ethanol, but it seems to bee more selective, except when it comes to waxes, which will dissolve better in it. Don't know what the fuss is over. Turps cure eats 120's for breakfast Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-17-02 17:51 No 310161	Corn starch, lactose monohydrate, magnesium ...	Bookmark Reply
	Corn starch, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, sodium starch glycolate, colloidial siicon dioxide, dibasic calcium phosphate, MCC, pre-gelatanized starch: these are easily excluded. Did someone say povidone would go through? With it’s large molecular weight it should be slow as molasses, if that. Sugars I’ve not tried: most are sparingly soluble in alcohol, and many even less in cold alcohol. C10 H14 O4 molecular weight 198 guaifenesin... Compare to C10 H15 NO molecular weight 165 ephedrine This will probably remain a problem and require the use of NaOH, alcohol, and cold naphtha, as it has heretofore (for the embalming-fluid challenged...) Ephedra extractions will proceed to the low pH side with HCl , be dried, acetone washed, dried again, and extracted without all the plant fats and waxes causing emulsion problems. All that work Mr-Clean and I did now obsolete? Probably, and good for it... PP/SS, steam extraction, SPM Tyvek or?: it can’t be stopped, it shall be cleaned. The guys that adulterate the pseudo for a fee get a cut on sales (I’d wager.) Their effectiveness in preventing the Caretakers of Righteousness and Nasal Decongestant Purity from accomplishing their goals is the only reason the WOD animals have not totally curtailed pseudo sales. Thus the adulterer’s ox is gored and they MOO like the bovine cud chewing cloven hoofed animals they emulate... Imagining their response to this latest affront to their Palace of Putrefaction, they think of food-grade low toxicity amendments that will come across the barrier, too, that are not easily cleaned by PP/SS, or left behind by steam..... Few, few are the available options: and with poly-ampholytes totally undone their major weapon is blunted. If some option should arise, it best become fumes at the same temp as pseudo.HCl, because that is the next thing up for separating the good from the bad. No, no: they have shot their wad, I think: their income will go down. Mad they are, and well monied. Dwarves and fellows should wisely scuttle into the shadows. <<<scuttling away..... dwarfer



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-17-02 21:47 No 310248	Cleaning Them First?	Bookmark Reply
	Jetson...SWIM also thought to clean GUPS before the Tyvek/alcohol extraction...she has gakky 60's and some 120's and will try separately on both...please report if SWIJ has tried it by now? Thanks!



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-17-02 22:26 No 310260	nylon	Bookmark Reply
	well swims been real busy with other things that pertain to to this kind of stuff but has'nt had a chance to play with the methods in this post yet...... he did go and get a couple boxes of those 120's think it has 20 in the box .. and does'nt list providone.. but he had like 2000 other fucked up gak ridden things to do that took priority so he's just now getting finished and needs sometime out of the kitchen .. hehehe damn shit has a way of keeping him busy for days.........go figure... anyway here's some info...... Nylon Nylon's an excellent tent fabric because it's so strong and durable. But it's lightweight, too. And it's also easily waterproofed. However, if the nylon isn't waterproofed, it stays very breathable, which lets moisture (in the form of water vapor) pass through. Nylon can easily be dyed, and it holds even the most vibrant colors well. Nylon doesn't rot, either. So if you pack up a wet nylon tent for six months or so, the nylon itself will still be fully functional, although the tent will undoubtedly be severely mildewed. Mildew can eat away at the waterproof coating, though, which will make it useless. Uncoated nylon is water-resistant. It's man-made and doesn't absorb water. But it's not waterproof, because water can pass through gaps between the woven fibers. To prevent that, nylon material is coated in large spools with polyurethane. The polyurethane coating seals out most water, making nylon tents weatherproof. It also effectively seals the material, greatly reducing the breathability of the fabric. To make the inside of the tent more comfortable, most designs, especially dome style tents, have large windows and large panels of untreated nylon to increase breathability. Rip-Stop Nylon Rip-stop nylon has the same characteristics as regular nylon. The one main difference is a heavier fiber woven into the fabric every dozen or so stitches. The idea is that if a tear starts, the resistance that the heavier fiber provides will stop the rip sooner. Rip-stop nylon is recognizable by its prominent grid pattern on the fabric. Polyester Features of polyester are nearly identical to nylon, but it resists Ultraviolet (UV) damage better. All materials experience a loss of strength when exposed to UV rays. When you set up your tent, you should choose an area that doesn't get direct sunlight. Fortunately, UV degradation happens slowly, so if you only use your tent a few weeks every year, it won't experience any substantial UV damage for many years. Cotton Canvas Cotton canvas used to be the material of choice for tents. This was before nylon was even invented. It was favored because of its durability and all-weather protection. The canvas used in tents back then had an oily or waxy coating so it didn't absorb water. The coating didn't seal the fabric, so the tent could breathe. That way water vapor could escape, which prevented the clammy feeling that early nylon tents had. Since canvas tents weren't weatherproof, they relied on rain water's surface tension between the cotton fibers to keep the tent from leaking. Nylon tents don't have this problem. Because of the extra weight of canvas, and the advances of synthetic fabrics, canvas isn't often used in tent construction anymore. UV-Tex 5 As a new polyester fabric that has a strong UV light inhibitor, this fabric provides a much greater resistance to UV degradation than a standard nylon tent. It also offers more resistance than a standard polyester tent. Its other characteristics are identical to those of polyester. Polyethylene Polyethylene is typically used for the floor of cabin tents. The main reason for using polyethylene is that it's waterproof. Water won't pass through it unless there's a hole in it. Polyethylene is quite durable, but there are disadvantages. It weighs more than nylon, and it's bulkier. Once unfolded, it's difficult to get polyethylene back to its original shape. Many smaller tents have floors made of treated nylon. Treated nylon is water-resistant. However, a waterproof barrier of some type still needs to be placed under nylon floor tents. Polyethylene or vinyl tarps provide an excellent waterproof barrier and help protect the floor of the tent from damage from rocky ground or debris. 'I've seen tommorow and it looks like today'



p2e3r4f5e6c7t8 (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 03:33 No 310327	No dwafer the silk sheeting dose not stretch at ...	Bookmark Reply
	No dwafer the silk sheeting dose not stretch at all. And it's not that expensive. Ask no question's, and i will tell no lies.



os2sailor (Stranger) 05-18-02 08:27 No 310364	Silk	Bookmark Reply
	Silk dosn't stretch because of it's incredable strength. Silk has the highest tensile strength of any material used for fabric. The holly grail of polymer chemisty is to find an polymer material that can duplicate the strength of silk AND maintain the flexability. Kevlar is the closest they have come but it is not very flexable. The high stregth of silk is able to withstand the pressures built up in the rxn's. The tighter the weave the stronger the fabric. Fabrics are graded and sold based on weight. The more threads per square inch, the tighter the weave and thereby the smaller the gaps or holes in the fabric.



Dexter (Stranger) 05-18-02 08:43 No 310369	soaking for 24 hours now	Bookmark Reply
	Hey bees, My filled wash-powder ball is soaking for more then 24 hours now. Swim dropped some (1 ml) methanol on a mirror, when the methanol was evaporated the mirror was covered with round shaped crystals. Swim scraped this of, resulting in a bitter tasting bright white powder. =>ephedrine To bad swim used the same funnel to poor his methanol in his beaker to fil his wash powder ball. Otherwise the solutions would be clear now he has the filter the solutions before pooring it in his evaporation dish. Has the time come to the big evaporation step?



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-18-02 08:53 No 310372	In The Interest of Science & Good of All Mankind	Bookmark Reply
	SWIM has nothing better to do today, and with things sort of laying around (1 box of 120's, #20, 8 boxes of 60's--NOT RED HOTS, #20, with povidone and trips, and several Tyvek envelopes) she has decided to try this thing...but has divided everything to try and figure out what is going to give the best result...Tyvek and denatured alcohol are the only constants in this theory. Theoretically, the #20 120's will be placed in the Tyvek whole, secured with rubber bands, and placed in a jar of denatured. #40 of the 60's will also be placed in another jar (#2), in whole form as well. Another #40 of the 60's will be ground and placed into Jar #3. Yet another 40 of the 60's will go into Jar #4 after having been ground and given an E-Gull cleanup FIRST. The final #40 of the 60's will be ground,then given the turps cure, an acetone boil, and placed in the final #5 Jar. That puts the same # of mgs in each jar, all with a different process (other than the Tyvek, rubberbands, and denatured)--yes, inquiring minds, SWIM figured that out all by herself. She will give each group 8 hours to start with and see how it progresses from there. Stay tuned...!!!



dchef (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 09:21 No 310381	curious	Bookmark Reply
	pink_obsession, Swim doesnt want to bee a stick in the mud so to speak, but arent you the one who swore that household ammonia could bee used in a birch sometime ago? If not excuse me, but swim just had to ask because it would have a lot to do with the credibility of more experiments and claims of success from your end. Swim realizes this is a great revolution in cleaning feedstock and just wants to make sure all the facts are correctly understood on this end.



Kitchenmagician (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 09:36 No 310385	Cmon now dchef,	Bookmark Reply
	your not referring to this are ya, pink_obsession: "Re: Anhydrus Ammonia/NH3" (Stimulants)? All in all it looks like pink has a scientific approach. We all know you can do a birch with household ammonia. Okay, whose side am I on here? All kidding aside, lets not condemn anyones experiments until we see the results, then we will either have to accept them or tear them to shreds.KM Special Prayers to our fallen bees and their families :( KM



dchef (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 09:42 No 310389	not condemning	Bookmark Reply
	anything just want to make sure if the ole memory still works at all.



Kitchenmagician (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 10:01 No 310395	I just wanted	Bookmark Reply
	to say thank you to all the inquiring minds that came up with this "new" approach. It has the potential to make the govt . BTW, I know there are filters made with a certain micon size pore that are used everyday, now I'm just going to have to find them. From what I understand they are resisant to alot of common solvents. And your memory is still good! Way better then mine. KM Special Prayers to our fallen bees and their families :( KM



Elementary (Hive Addict) 05-18-02 10:06 No 310399	Clarification Please	Bookmark Reply
	I have read the first post in this thread a few times now, but somethings need to be clarified. 1. GUP = Gakked Up Pills (psuedos) I would assume. 2. The pills are powdered and placed inside the tyvek to make a tight ball fastened with elastic bands. 3. The ball is placed inside a beaker (etc) filled with alcohol (methanol etc)and left for 6-8 hours - how does all the psuedo leave the ball without some staying in the ball without agitation ? If the procedure is like dialysis, then doesn't there need to be a constant stream of alcohol to leach the psuedo out of the bag ? Don't cry for me I'm the cleaner



pandemonium (Hive Addict) 05-18-02 10:15 No 310400	Osmosis	Bookmark Reply
	The principles of passive osmosis have to do with the Brownian Motion of particles in suspension. When particles are inside of an osmotic membrane, and both the particles and the membrane are suspended in solution, molecules which can fit through the apertures of the membrane, tend to, over time, evenly distribute on both sides of the membrane. Which is why Panty hose, and coffee filters, as in the case of large polymer molecules, will not work for excluding those polymers. The apertures are too large. PS - Yes, El, If you wanted to get every last desired molecule,(heehee) or nearly, a fresh flow of solvent would be needed. if you know the enemy and know yourself, the victory is not at risk. Sun Tzu



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-18-02 13:19 No 310450	Let's Give 'Em Something To Talk About	Bookmark Reply
	I'm deleting my earlier post to DChef, as it was really an over-reaction to what he said...SWIM just turned into a hysterical female and went off on him...he PM'ed, I PM'ed offering an apology for SWIM (SHE is the one who does all the bad shit, after all...not ME! ). Sorry as well to anyone else who read it. SWIM got the whole experiment started and now just waits...reorganizing her Hot Wheels collection and shit like that...hehe. By the way, the 60's were in packs of 24, not 20 (SWIM wasn't thinking, I guess) and SWIM removed the extras from the total (that's 24-4 and 24-4 = 48-8 = 40!)...it was a long night, forgive SWIM! Seriously, she counted the damn things (there weren't THAT many) just to make sure that she had it all right...so maybe DChef will put just a WEE bit more faith in her...or maybe not. Will report on results late tonight!



Fix (Stranger) 05-18-02 14:11 No 310468	stand together	Bookmark Reply
	I for one am thankful the hive exist for all of us, the knowledge shared here is a valuble tool for ALL! Those who share their knowledge are to be congradulated. Hell,people, we are basically in this together.Swif hopes to contribute to this vast knowledge someday...stay cool! Daddy made the moonshine..his son he ran the load!



dchef (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 15:06 No 310491	swims memory	Bookmark Reply
	is what was being testing and eagerly awaiting test results.



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 15:13 No 310495	PO FYI	Bookmark Reply
	PO, FYI, 48 60's = 3grams of pseudo. IMHO, you have a long way to go. So did the rest of us, & some of us posted stupid posts too. You needn't go any further than to do a search for early (and occasionally later) posts made by Payin2Much. That doesn't mean your not a dumbass (there ain't a girl alive with a hotwheels collection), it just means that your in good company. Good luck!!! What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-18-02 16:47 No 310527	I most definitely DO have Hot Wheels...hehehe	Bookmark Reply
	Why can't girls have them too??? I like 'em! And, believe it or not, a certain close female relative of mine would be totally p.o.'ed if she knew I had 'em...as I STARTED OUT picking up cars for her because she collected! She doesn't get too many any more...I haven't told her and don't plan to! So...I am a girl with a HW collection AND a dumbass...hehehe. Doing good today! Also, thanks for the breakdown of grams per # of pills...hehehe...the mathematical side of my brain is on overload today after counting those! Of course I have a long way to go...I wouldn't have it any other way!



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-18-02 16:51 No 310530	To Payin Too Much	Bookmark Reply
	But there are only 40 pills in each jar of the 60's, and there are four of those jars, as well as one of #20 120's...give ya a lollipop to do the math! Going to do a search for "Payin Too Much's Dumbass Posts"



fierceness (Hive Bee) 05-18-02 17:45 No 310545	*40 pills/jar .06 g/pill = 2.**	Bookmark Reply
	40 pills/jar * .06 g/pill = 2.4g/jar for the 60's 20 pills * .120 g/pill = 2.4 g of the 120



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-18-02 20:14 No 310573	Fierceness Wins The Lollipop	Bookmark Reply
	while Payin' Too Much was out screwing off...hehehe. Just kidding. I could do the math, Fierceness...please don't think I am that dumb...but I did have to give PTM a bad time. On days like this, I need all the help I can get! Now for the update, such as it is...please remember that this is just a hypothetical experiment. Jar 1: These were the #20 120mg pills, wrapped in a Tyvek square and secured tightly with a rubberband. Placed in jar of denatured alcohol. After 8 hours, some swelling had occurred, but not as much as SWIM thinks it is capable of (which makes sense...they ARE 12-hour pills, after all!). They will continue on til 2 a.m., which is the 12-hour point. Jar 2: These were white, generic, #40 60mg pills...they were not ground or anything...just treated like the 120's and placed in the Tyvek wrap in denatured. Less swelling of the Tyvek, but will continue on to the 12-hour point with the 120's...why not? These may have to dry and be ground up, then redone...we shall see. Jar 3: Same generic 60mg's, #40, ground up in a coffee grinder, then placed in the Tyvek wrap and put in jar with denatured. Will remove from alcohol at midnight, which will be 8 hours of alcohol soaking for this jar. Will take off the alcohol and replace with fresh to go probably another 8 hours, depending on the yield from the first alcohol pull. Jar 4: Same 60's...ground up and covered with tetra, where they proceeded to get their little balls smashed. Ouch! The drying time for the tetra-cleaned powder delayed its placement in the Tyvek wrap in alcohol, so this one started at 5 p.m. Will leave it til at least 1 a.m., which would be an 8 hour alcohol soak. Jar 5: This is the slow one...same 60's, ground up and soaked in turps, then boiled, and soaked some more. SWIM will filter and replace turps before retiring for the night, then will boil once more in the a.m. (WHENEVER she gets her butt out of the bed!). Will then proceed with acetone boils and go from there. Here are the listed pill ingredients: 120mg's: Inactives--carnauba wax, colloidal silicon dioxide, dibasic calcium phosphate, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, magnesium stearate, microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol, polysorbate 80, titanium dioxide. 60mg's: Pseudo 60mg, Tripolidine 2.5mg...Inactives--carnauba wax, cornstarch, flavors, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, lactose, magnesium stearate, pregelatinized starch, silicon dioxide, sodium phosphate, sucrose, titanium dioxide. (SWIM firmly believes there is also povidone in these and always treats them as such, due to previous experience with them) Denatured is just regular denatured alcohol in the blue can. Tyvek came from our friendly post office clerk, and SWIM was lucky enough to get almost all white envelopes, just some blue and red print at the top is all. (the 120's are the ones that got the color--pretty fuchsia! SWIM imagines it will wash off...if not, still pretty fuchsia!) All the jars still have completely clear, not cloudy, alcohol...even tho SWIM couldn't resist giving the little Tyvek balls a squeeze...hehe. Will post more in the morning when there is more to report. Sweet dreams!



os2sailor (Stranger) 05-18-02 23:07 No 310656	Micron Filters	Bookmark Reply
	Yes, there are filters out there that are designed to filter to a specific micron size...I use 10 micron filters regularly. Some are also solvent resistant. I will research availability since my source is secondary. I will post the results.



SALTiGOT (Newbee) 05-19-02 03:17 No 310720	poor yealds	Bookmark Reply
	swis, was wondering about returnes using this egg. swis has been playing with the paint suit<solid white>. there was 5boxes of 20count 120's,after 6hrs(egg was really swolen) the yeald was only 3.5g. swis,is currently changeing brands,but wonders what happened.however sudo was very clean,just not enough anny bee haveing anything close to this kind of prob? hint's would be great [i]have tank will travel



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-19-02 13:15 No 310904	Watching The Evaporation	Bookmark Reply
	Just an update...SWIM slept in this a.m. and did not get the Tyvek bags removed from alcohol til 11 a.m. So that gave Jar 1, 2, & 3 (the non-ground 120's, the non-ground 60's, and the ground 60's) about 21 hours of soaking! Jar 4 (the 60's cleaned with brake cleaner) had about 18 hours soak time. In any case, the alcohol was drained off, Tyvek balls squeezed, and fresh alcohol added. The different decanted alcohols were placed on plates and shallow dishes with just a fan blowing over the top, no heat. SLOOOOOWWWW! So far, results look good although SWIM can't yet see a difference (if there is one) between the alcohols...except for the fuchsia-colored one! By the way, the Tyvek balls were put in the small Mason jars (pints, I think?) and just enough alcohol to cover the ball part was poured in, with the pig tail sticking above the alcohol. Jar 5, the 60's which got two turps boils and an overnight turps soak, followed by two acetone boils, is still drying before the Tyvek treatment. It makes sense that one would get less pseudo from the pills which were cleaned with something else prior to the Tyvek treatment, simply because of a little loss with each cleaning method. SWIM doesn't know what this whole thing might prove; she's just looking for the best quality she can get, and if she loses a little quantity in the name of quality, so be it. Will post more when SWIM knows more...



tygerlily (Stranger) 05-19-02 19:06 No 311064	Saltigot: In reply to your comment, "swis, was ...	Bookmark Reply
	Saltigot: In reply to your comment, "swis, was wondering about returnes using this egg. swis has been playing with the paint suit<solid white>.there was 5boxes of 20count 120's,after 6hrs(egg was really swolen) the yeald was only 3.5g...." Take the "egg" after your first soak and place it as is in a beaker of fresh ethanol (or whatever you used the first time you soaked it). Let it soak another 6 hrs and you will recover some more of your pseudo. The reasoning behind this is that during diffusion/osmosis, the molecules dissuse from the highest concentration to the lowest concentration, but will eventually reach a point of equilibrium when the concentration in the solution is equal to the concentration inside the "egg". Try it, you'll see what I mean. PS. There is a really informative page, http://www.mun.ca/biology/Osmosis_Diffusion/tutor2.html It might help the bees to understand what osmosis/diffusion is all about and how we might be able to use it to our advantage in pseudo extraction. Tygerlily



Synthia (Hive Bee) 05-19-02 21:54 No 311140	tyvek sources	Bookmark Reply
	when the mean men came and tore down synthia's lab (noted as "a very tidy, well run operation" and "one of the cleanest when have ever delt with") i couldn't help but notice simerlarities in my and there apparrel (except the gun belt of course). SOURCE ONE: tyvek overalls (which of course you all have, right?) come in breathable oor not - not is good for both jobs. SOURCE TWO: 3.5" and 5.25" disk sleeves (old days but still avail) SOURCE THREE: some vaccuum cleaner bags SOURCE FOUR: in flight puke bags the stuff is everywhere and is truly tough as fuck, the clean goods are ready for the usual cooking then you can leave/add dwafers poly-aph post rxn of course, the experience is yours of course. sit ubu sit



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-19-02 23:37 No 311182	Prelims	Bookmark Reply
	Don't have all the yield amts. etc. yet, as this is still not done...all SWIM can tell you are some observations she has made: 1) The alcohol from the unground 120's dried the fastest. Also provided the lowest yield so far after only the first pull. Second pull of alcohol still evaporating. 2) The unground 60's were the second lowest yield after one pull. Second alcohol pull evaporating. 3) The previously tetra-cleaned 60's dried the DRIEST and, it appears, the cleanest. So far the highest yield after one pull. Second pull evapping. 4) The ground uncleaned 60's were the second highest yield after one pull. Evaporating second pull. 5) The ground, turps-cured, acetone-boiled, tetra-cleaned 60's are still in the alcohol, but I suspect they will come through with the highest yield of all (just a guess). SWIM thinks that Tyvek is a great thing...no cloudiness noted in ANY of the alcohol pulled, but is not convinced that it's the only thing she has to do to the pills she can get. Others may be able to get better ones. SWIM will always grind her pills before the Tyvek treatment, as this seemed to make a difference in the yield of the first pull, and did not seem to hurt anything. More to come tomorrow...



honeysmoker (Hive Bee) 05-20-02 02:09 No 311222	The tightly wrapped gup ball is placed in a jar ...	Bookmark Reply
	The tightly wrapped gup ball is placed in a jar and filled with alcohol until just slightlysubmerged..8-12 hours later, 60-75% of yield is taken on first pull. The alcohol appears very saturated/concentrated with the psuedo "snakes". You can again observe the "snakes" finding their way out of the ball an hour later for another 5-10%. The third pull "snakes" are few and inbetween, even when giving the ball a good hard squeeze. I still have yet to have any better results with the obliterating/crushing of the pills. The yields have been much cleaner leaving the little guys in tact. The psuedo is going to find its way out of the bag just like it does if you were to swallow it. I have'nt seen too many folks chomp away on their advil to help get rid of their headache faster or more efficiently. Gut extraction? or Anger Management? The simplest things in life are the things that make life so simple....



kitten (Stranger) 05-20-02 05:26 No 311277	It Works for NewBEES	Bookmark Reply
	Kitten haves a story to tell, I have been reading and searching for about a month, one day I read HoneySmoker Post and gave it a try. I used 20/120's {no povidone} and a pair of nylon panties {not pantyhose}. Took the pill put them in a tight ball, swisted and tied it off with dental floss. Did this twice, put it in about 250ml alch. for 12 hours. evaped.. got pretty little clear swirls, scraped it up and now i am the proud mother of white powder. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IT DOES WORK EVEN FOR NEWBEES.



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-20-02 07:40 No 311304	works	Bookmark Reply
	SWIG finally fired the truck up and came up the hill for coffee. The hermit is hard to dislodge from the woods when he is busy with his alchemy. He said the first soak of the 120's and of the GUP's from those white 60's gave a poor yield, which he realized was due to soaking the balls in too small a volume of alcohol. He added fresh alky and soaked six more hours. Second extraction had more pseudo than the first. Totals after recrystalizing the pseudo: From the 120's 4.5 grams pseduo, 75% yield. From the white 60's 8 grams, 67% yield. The whites had been preboiled in acetone; also some of the yield was sacrificed because the "squeezings" contained visible gakk which was discarded rather than allowed to contaminate the rest of the batch. The 120's had very little trash on recrystalizing. The white 60's had some whitish precipitant left in the acetone/alcohol solute; with the experience on the "squeeze" SWIG had the opinion that the piece of Tyvek may have had a pinhole. He did not dig it out of its final resting place to confirm, however. He assumes a certain amount of mechanical losses in the extraction process and said he attributes the percentage to the mechanical losses and assumes with more feedstock the percentage yield would go up. SWIG said the pseduo was definitely clean enough to process as it was. He also admitted to having done something along that line. He advised that he reacted the 4.5 gms of pseduo from the 120's separately from the other. He claimed to have obtained almost 3.0gm recrystalized product, but he admits he added to the total the amount he used for bio-assay, which makes his total a little suspect. He thought the results were good from a small reaction. (He steam distilled the product and was most pleased with those results. He said to say "Thanks" to Video Editor for the notes on the process.) The eight grams of pseduo from the white 60's were reacted separately. The filtered and np-washed reaction fluid was basified and allowed to sit. SWIG "elected" to pull with non-polar (I think he just got absent minded myself and forgot he planned to steam this, and remembered after he added non-polar to the flask.) He noted the interface was mirror-like, even though there was a layer of floating debris below it. SWIG said it looked like wax (He actually said it looked like ear wax after a much-needed lavage.) Two pulls were made of the basified rxn fluid, which was then covered with a fresh layer of np solvent and set aside for another day. The collected solvent was washed and the product salted out and evaporated. The contents skinned over with crystals forming from the outer edge to the center. This was acetone "flashed" just before dryness. The powder was off-white but sparkly. Filtering after dissolving in acetone and boiling alcohol removed some debris; this solution was allowed to recrytalize at room temperature overnight in a beaker with a funnel sitting in it. The crystals formed were translucent, the largest about a quarter of an inch square. SWIG said he rinsed these with cold acetone and had not weighed them (not completely dry before he came by for coffee) but that he estimated about four grams of crystal. He said he expected more product from filter rinses and figures the mother liquor will give up some additional crystals, so it is too early to give a total yield. Melted on glass very cleanly, rocked right back up, had long legs, over 1/2 inch, very smooth taste. Bio assay excellent! Very little residue on glass. SWIG concluded from the results so far that Tyvek extraction produced pseudo of sufficient cleanliness to be reacted successfully without problems as to quality or yield. Future experiments will include careful examination for pinholes. Question on SWIG's mind is whether tyvek can hold povidone inside the egg. Honeysmoker and Dwarfer: Salutes and accolades are in order. You have reduced the drudgery of alchemy to fun levels again! An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



pink_obsession (Newbee) 05-20-02 10:31 No 311351	Too Many Factors	Bookmark Reply
	It seems to SWIM that there are just too many factors at play here...and I praise those who discovered the Tyvek/Tea Bag/Etc. treatment. Since people are not going to do things EXACTLY the same way as one another, there's one factor. Since one person's idea of clean is not the same as someone else's, there's two factors. Different pill availability makes three. And different alcohols, solvents, brands, etc. makes the list even longer. SWIM will be using Tyvek from now on, she thinks...maybe not the exact same way the next person does, but using it just the same. Again, thanks to those who found it.



pandemonium (Hive Addict) 05-20-02 10:41 No 311358	A breakthrough, IMHO	Bookmark Reply
	finding a readily available item that can be used as a semipermeable membrane for these purposes is a real breakthrough, and there can be no doubt that Honeysmoker and Dwarfer are due the applause. Without something ventured there can be nothing gained. Those who consistently venture to "dream", and base that work on educated efforts, are miles beyond those who simply theorize, rant, and make "important" pronouncements derived from writeups that are years old. Or from journals, for that matter. Dwarfer consistently contributes new methods, and Honeysmoker has helped a lot of bees with this. Let us hope bees use this to clean up their streets and neighborhoods, in the only way at all that really works. Bravo to all of you who actually do that, and to those whose gambled efforts made this breakthrough happen, I am impressed. Instant Karma's gonna get you, gonna knock ya right in the head



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-20-02 16:45 No 311524	More details on SMP's	Bookmark Reply
	GUP’s = ground up pills The 120's, if not ground up, constitute a “void” experiment because it has already been proven.. Binding up the GUP’s provides a continuous and eventually balanced flow of alcohol thru the membrane, in both directions. It is easier for the alcohol to go into the membrane from the external volume of alcohol, than it is for the alcohol inside the bound up tightly wrapped GUP ball to go out, because the other substances inside the ball block the exit pores, or otherwise impede the outward flow. For the same reasons as shown in the “glass tube immersed in a bucket of water” experiment above, (with the Tyvek across the mouth of the tube, causing the liquid level to go higher in the tube,) the pressure goes UP inside the GUP ball until the OUT flow = the IN flow... In the OUT flow, a more viscous liquid is being transported, since the alcohol now is laden with soluble salts such as (ta DAH..) fake pre-moleasses.HCl. Plus, other species of nasty amendments added by the adulterers that can’t make the transit (read: POLY-AMPHOLYTES ) block or gum up the exit ports, as do the miscellaneous binders and other particulate additives... So the internal pressure goes UP sufficient to balance the flow, thus assuring the processes’ effectiveness. In the original “condom separation”, diffusion drives the process by it’s lonesome. In this application, the osmotic process is enhanced by the additional pressure created inside the sealed membrane pouch. Whether this is “reverse osmosis” or not is not clear to me, since it is not the “unnatural” application of pressure that drives the direction of flow, but rather a natural progression arising from the characteristics of the ions that wish to equalize their distribution throughout the liquid. Further note. I had intended on commenting on the observation of a fellow some distance above. As he noted, and I here support, the evidence of effective transport does not arise exclusively from the crystals noted upon evaporation. The crystal-clear extracted liquid can be noted to be slightly more viscous than you would expect room temp-alcohol to be, (more like 30F alkie...) And upon gentle swirling, with a light source in the background, “density gradients” of refractive differentiation can be note wafting thru the volume. When you see that, you can begin to smile...... (Note: some enterprising bee with a refractometer should be able to generate a refractive index vs concentration matrix to amaze the multitudes with, and also earn an “A” on his/her Sr. Chem Lab paper.”:<) PS: The osmotic pressure “P” is derived from the equation P=MRT, where M is the molar concentration of the solute, R is the gas constant, and T is the temperature (Kelvin). Make some assumptions of the molar concentration of pseudo.HCl (the dissociation constant of which in alcohol is totally beyond me...), taking into account that the AMOUNT of alcohol that occupies the space available inside the tightly wrapped GUP package is damned little, (anyone who has opened a post-extraction GUP ball can attest to it’s relative dry-ness...) and figger out the pressure. I would venture the results of my calculation, but the number is so high that I doubt the accuracy of my work, and instead of appearing the fool, will re-trace my steps again. Better to be a confident fool than a tentative one, my Daddy always taught me... A ramification of the analysis for the “sugar-challenging” compounds would be that low-temperature extractions with alcohol could be beneficial, as the process would not be hindered much, but the solvation of most sugars would be minimal.. _{since 273 divided by 273 + 25 = approx 90% if you get my drift} dwarfer



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-20-02 17:07 No 311543	Strong outer container needed:SMP's	Bookmark Reply
	This actually should be an answer to another thread's meanderings, but rather than diffuse the information... Remember,that whatever you try, it must be strong enough to not expand much when subjected to the significant internal pressure that will develop in the GUP ball mass. If you "back it up" with a strong outer wall "container" of some type, so that cannot just stretch, you will give the material a "fair trial". Otherwise, it will just stretch, and it will absolutely not work as well. Hell, wrap your ball in ANOTHER ball of ??fiberglass window screen??: pull IT tight with rubber bands too.. _{who is going to wrap a condom in Tyvek or window screen or silk or nylon or ??} dwarfer



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-21-02 00:52 No 311751	ABYSMAL FAILURE SO FAR	Bookmark Reply
	As SWIP evaps the OH, He finds that the amount of soodo in the mix is FAR LESS than hoped for. Taste test of pillstock reveals HIGH LEVEL of soodo still remaining beyond the surface area. Conclusion? Maybee not tight enough, maybee not effective on jumbo extractions. He's redoing one 150box & one 100box together, rolled tightly like a joint with TONS of thick rubberbands covering it. 72 oz of gas dryer in a large dry pasta container & the container is full. We'll see about this one, but his expectations are low. What's next? SWIP's considering the large weave nylon rope that SWIP bought as a towing rope. As it is squeezed down it makes a 2" hole in the center. For large amounts, he thinks this might give high surface area by placing tubes of tyvek full of pills inside a similar rope & twisting the fuck out of it. That outta get the job done!!! What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been



honeysmoker (Hive Bee) 05-21-02 02:48 No 311788	GUPS	Bookmark Reply
	DWARFER, excellent points in your post! "The 120's, if not ground up, constitute a “void” experiment because it has already been proven.." Since we already know that NOT grinding the pils up has been proven, your explanation helps clarify the problems that void the GUP experiment. If I could summarize a few highlights from your post: Gup pills in ball basically provides a uniform/constant flow for the alcohol to pass thru. It is like a single, evenly dispersed mass when GUP'd. This mass is symetrical in shape with respects to its configuration in the tyvek ball. Once GUP'd, the numerous substances will constrict/blanket the tyvek pours, thus making it more difficult for the psuedo to escape, so much so that the inner most core of the ball has been found virtually dry. I agree 100%, that one the pills are GUP'd, here the problems begin. By not GUP'ing the pills, and wrapping them tight in a ball, the pills are able to create some space between them due to their shape. It is because of the unsymmetrical/protruding pill configuration, that ensures that the tyvek walls can not be constricted in any way. Since the pills never get obliterated by the blender, the alcohol impeding substances never find their way out of their original shell, much less the tyvek shell. The pills are not waterproof, so absortion of any liquid (i.e. h20 or alchol) is eminent. After submersion, the pills are allowed to swell slightly due to the stretching of the tyvek and the small voids between the pills. The psuedo, being molecularly smaller than its gak affiliates, gets squeezed out by the pressure that absortion has created. You give the spudo no option but out! Thanks again to Dwarfer, unobtaium, Video Editor, and all other Hive Bee's that have expanded, backed, tested, and continue to support and refine this extraction method!



ZingoBingo (Hive Bee) 05-21-02 06:25 No 311834	Strong outer container needed:SMP's	Bookmark Reply
	Dwarf, thanks for the WU. There are a couple of possibilties for the outer container: an actual stainless steel "tea egg" and the saw dust container mentioned earlier. The "tea egg" is perforated and screws apart - place nano-sausage inside - screw back together - drop in alky, or on a larger scale, utilize the sawdust container in same fashion using top of pickle jar lid to simultaneously seal the open end of the saw dust container when placed within said empty cucumber storage device. I am wondering though, since stomach acid is somewhat acidic if perhaps the GUP filled sausage might be more agreable to dh20 and a splash of muriatic than the alky. ZB



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-21-02 10:43 No 311956	Sorry, Synthia!!!	Bookmark Reply
	Dude, sorry to hear about your misfortune. I would like to put up $100 toward your legal defense if you'd like to PM me w/ an address. P2M What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been



Dexter (Stranger) 05-21-02 11:36 No 311996	It worked	Bookmark Reply
	Swims wash powder ball filled with GUP seemed to released a lot of (maybe all of it) pseudo. Swim is evaporating the methonal right now, beatifull sprakly crystals are forming in his ovendish. SWIM noticed the evaporating of methanol goes extremely slow and thus forming the crystals. But theres no hurry caus swim doenst posses a scale so he cant wight it and calculate ratios. SWIM wil do some shopping on the internet for a scale (any suggestions would be appreciated), local headshops here are far far te expensive, gues only rich coke dealers buy does scales here



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-21-02 13:09 No 312060	more exposition on SMP's	Bookmark Reply
	I probably am becoming “excessively redundant” and for that I apologize. The movement and migration of molecules inside the GUP bag are conditioned by Brownian motion which has to do with mass, temperature, and randomness; and solvency; and size; and capillary action. Big molecules vibrate slower than small molecules, but have the same energy (average). Alcohol is small and moves rapidly and soon permeates the bag. The alcohol dissolves the pseudo, and the pseudo/alcohol mixture is a bit more viscous than alcohol and cannot go back out as rapidly as the alcohol is coming in, but obviously since the bag is (hopefully) not stretching much, the pressure goes up inside sufficiently to balance the flow. Some of the alcohol that comes in goes right back out, but most dissolves what can be dissolved and gets squeezed back out. As long as there is something to be dissolved, that is. So as you may guess, the externally located pseudo gets transit over the membrane first, which enables more centrally located pseudo to migrate through the same mechanism into areas of less concentration near the perimeter. So we have, for the mathematically attuned analyst, some integral over time which describes the concentration of pseudo in “n” concentric shells of idealized GUP ball which steeply declines if graphed, from a concentration “X1" at time = 0, to X? at time = ? , the graph making an asymptote indicating decreasing efficacy over time. (That’s why you want to take samples at some specific interval to determine whatchaget when....) And don’t worry about a great big giant ball of GUP’s because the same phenomenon will eventuate although it might take longer. Just sample at intervals, make a graph, and viola you got her nailed. However, there is a complication. First of all, though the pseudo salt might be the most soluble species in the ball, other soluble stuff is migrating as well. Well, its migrating IF IT CAN.. That is where PORE SIZE comes in. If it can’t FIT through the PORES, no “density gradient” is produced, and the randomness of Brownian movement results in dancing around the same spot... And THAT is why, gentle reader, SOME brilliant experimenter is going to try a WRAPPED CONDOM full of GUP, because then, at least in my theoretical mind, you can leave the sucker soaking like for DAYS to get out ALL THE GOODIES with no concern about bad crap making it’s break into your alcohol... As regards the comment made by Goiter Joe above, he is absolutely correct that the Freebase can in fact be treated in similar fashion: however, it is not nearly as soluble in alky as is the salt (as best my common experiences would extrapolate) and therefore it would not be as efficient. Anyway, good luck and don’t make any drugs with the pseudo because it is illegal. And if you do, keep it to yourself. Don’t buy and don’t sell. dwarfer



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-22-02 14:54 No 312626	final results	Bookmark Reply
	SWIG came by to brag about his final results on his first Tyvek strained pseudo from GUP's of 60's with Tripolidine. Third pull and filter wash and recrystalizing the whole batch resulted in yield of 5.8 grams of fine gemstones. Not a bad yield from an eight gram start. Quality is excellent but not remarkable-- Cadillac, not Lexus. SWIG said the batch from the white 60's had a waxy-looking solid floating beneath the interface. The third pull was left for two days, sitting in the flask; when the flask was picked up, the line of debris (about 3/16th of an inch thick beneath the interface) fell apart and began sinking slowly to the bottom-- very fine particles. The first water wash of the third pull xylene was surprising-- a load of brownish gakk came out immediately, and the wash water tinged yellow. Second wash had little solid material, faint yellow tint. A third wash was clean to view and touch. Yield on this pull was 1.7 grams. The color and behavior of the solid makes SWIG think the GUPs had some povidone, although not listed on ingredients. There was not enough debris or contaminant to impair recovery, and given the mechanical losses at this scale SWIG was happy with the results. He still believes the contaminants were from a small hole in the tyvek used, but plans to do a small run of some povidone loaded pills to find out how well tyvek holds back povidone. --Wouldn't it be nice if it were that easy? An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 05-23-02 14:35 No 313311	Back from the paint Dept.	Bookmark Reply
	Swim's buddy is about to make his virginal foray into the (hopefully) wonderful world of semi permeable memrane extraction. He got ahold of 3 items to possibly do this with. 1 set of polypropylene (Tyvek?) painters coveralls 1 painters cap that appears to be made of Tyvek 1 one gallon sized nylon mesh paint straining bag It appears as if one arm of the coveralls will be sacrificed first. Swim plans to tie off the ends of the arm once filled with GUPs and then plans to use the nylon bag as a size constrainer. The nylon bag seems very durable and resistant to stretching. The caps seems be the densest as air passes least easily through it. Not sure yet if the cap will be part of this particular experiment. Totals for these materials with tax came in at under $10.00. Will report results soon. The unlimited capacity for verbal flatulence is your divine birth right.



honeysmoker (Hive Bee) 05-23-02 14:55 No 313318	Anyone have any luck with the fedex envelopes?	Bookmark Reply
	Anyone have any luck with the fedex envelopes? Was told that furniture dept.s have a tyvek-type cover that is used during transport.....more specifically, a mattress and boxspring were covered in this as it was being shipped to a customers house. King size bed yielded approx 10sq'>>>was tested with satisfactory results.....not first hand knowledge but interesting to say the least...



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-23-02 17:39 No 313371	fedex	Bookmark Reply
	Anyone have any luck with the fedex envelopes? Was told that furniture dept.s have a tyvek-type cover that is used during transport..... Ok here's what works and can bee found at your local discount chain in the office supplies.... It's tyvek and it is made to hold 1.44 floppys has 20 envelopes per package. only problem swim found is that they have glue on the outside so you can close it without any troubles but the glue is easy to rid.. ] swim has used this and it works fairly well for small workups one envelope holds about 40 of the 120s ... 'I've seen tommorow and it looks like today except we have fewer liberties''



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-24-02 13:11 No 313712	two rules:	Bookmark Reply
	1. The tyvek or other fabric "container" for the GUP's has to be able to be formed tightly around the GUP ball with rubber bands, or you will lose efficiency. 2. I forget the second rule?? <oh well> swim has used this and it works fairly well for small workups one envelope holds about 40 of the 120s ... Yeah, but with the 120's, like 'Smoker says, you don't need NUFFIN 'cept to fling them into a jar of alkie,and the bitsy holes in both sides of the plastic capsule does what the Tyvek do.. dwarfer



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 05-24-02 17:23 No 313789	Update #1	Bookmark Reply
	Swim's buddy took his painters suit and carefully hacked off one arm. Tied off the smaller end tightly and loaded it up with 6 1/2 boxes of 12 hour 120's from some place that rhymes with "ball fart". Twisted the top tightly and wrapped the remainder of the sleeve back around the pill wad again. This was repeated another two times until the wad had been wrapped a total of 4 times. Swim's buddy had no rubber bands so he proceeded to stuff the Tyvek bound pill wad into the nylon mesh paint straining bag mentioned in his previous post. This was also twisted off and rewrapped back around the pill wad another 2 times. It was now the size of and also looked like a medium sized onion. This "onion" was then placed into a 500ml Pyrex measuring cup and was then submerged within methanol in the measuring cup. After 8 hours the methanol was vapped and it yeilded 3 grams of psuedo. There was a small bit of something that came over with the psuedo that had some minimal effects on the crystal pattern but compared to the gakks that ususally accompany these types of pills it was negligable and this batch of psuedo looks to be very reactable stuff. After another 8 hours of soaking "the onion" in 99% isopropyl alcohol another 3 grams was extracted. So in this particular setup swim assumes that psuedo is coming thru at the rate of 3 grams every 8 hours and currently has 6 grams out of a potential 14.6. Swim's buddy will let us know if this extraction rate continues as expected. Compared to the previous hassles involved with extracting from these types of pills swim's buddy is so far quite pleased with these initial results. The unlimited capacity for verbal flatulence is your divine birth right.



Gen_Washington (Hive Bee) 05-24-02 17:53 No 313806	Have only time to read to 5-17 or so really, so ...	Bookmark Reply
	Have only time to read to 5-17 or so really, so ignore any repeats until I read the rest on non public computers: dwarder: dis you try it with Warner-Lambert expensive brand name Sudafeds (or anyone else)? BECAUSE: Stuff I am currently using has caused dreams of gelled blood: whereas if I di a shot of even a tiny amount and wait maybe more than 30 minutes, FORGET IT!!: I'll pull out thick curdles of gelled blood from arm holes or from the puddle after emptying my syring to unclog blood blocks. I simply cannot shoot anything else SO: Irregardless of my situation (which could be pvp, which is soluble in amines themselves) does Tyvek method remove: Polymers? "Methocet"? (Is this still around btw?) MCC? Guafensin (or whatever fucking shit head pigs!)? Pull: Ephedrine SULPHATE, E Freebase (from ma huang?), and/or E HCL? Would this awesome idea work in fact without MCC?



handsfull2 (Hive Bee) 05-24-02 21:08 No 313881	like smoker says	Bookmark Reply
	swim has used this and it works fairly well for small workups one envelope holds about 40 of the 120s ...---------------------------------- Yeah, but with the 120's, like 'Smoker says, you don't need NUFFIN 'cept to fling them into a jar of alkie,and the bitsy holes in both sides of the plastic capsule does what the Tyvek do.. dwarfer dwarfer swim missed smokers post somehow , go fucking figure only have 117 post on the subject and the bitch is swim has a seeing eye dog who can't read....... Ok so swim missed that important info , and his only excuse is working on more excuses ..... but this and other methods such as fabric is so wide open that one could really explore forever if you know what I mean......and the issues of better health for bees is really a great find. swim is still working on the downy fabric softner ball cause he thinks the damn thing will work .. dwarfer and Honeysmoker, keep your wheels turning cause it aint over but the bees took a giant step that will bee hard to follow... both of you have swims thanks and respect. 'I've seen tommorow and it looks like today except we have fewer liberties''



p2e3r4f5e6c7t8 (Hive Bee) 05-25-02 01:29 No 313945	Try a bit of lemon juice, just a drop or 2, ...	Bookmark Reply
	Try a bit of lemon juice, just a drop or 2, thta's all. Ask no question's, and i will tell no lies.



whynotgo (Stranger) 05-25-02 04:11 No 313982	those ceramic distillers	Bookmark Reply
	SWIM, being a simpleton, was wondering about using one of those ceramic water "distillation" gravity filters in this type of extraction (any input by more clever bees?). SWIM, dreamed about the old sheepgut fish pump, extraction (ala Zonez) in the past, and had only limited success (pretty clean, very slow, low yields), but this sort of extraction, is still an interesting dream. SWIM is insane and always lies



wareami (Hive Addict) 05-25-02 07:47 No 314034	Clarificationizing!	Bookmark Reply
	Okay...thare seems to bee alot left to the imagination here as the possibilities are endless regarding material used/soak times...etc...! But thare is one thing that only has a set amount of descriptors that should be included when posting results! And that is the formulation of the pills being tested. It would be really nice if those posting would include whether they are using BRAND/GENERIC and the strengths... We all know that the major inhibitors/denaturants are a make-up of the inactive/inert ingredients and it would be even more Honk¥ Dôôr¥ if all bees could list these as well, at least for us that are still investigating and experimenting with the disected parts of these matrixes. There is a SOUPER MAJOR difference between what comes over when separating/extracting BRAND(GELLO) and GENERIC(2%MILK) Ibee is still petitioning the Warden to let his pfed GO in regards to three boxes of prisoners (30 BRAND-SUDAF 12hr 120's) being held for three weeks in Gell Block 17 in the south side of the Pyrex Corrections Facility! And if they get a full pardon, Ibee knows they will never be the same, because when the lid was left off the facility, they were free to roam the perimeter and left tiny pinwheel footprints on everything (glass)in a two foot square area! Very strange indeed! Now Ibee will be guilty of neglecting his own plea... he simply doesn't have the inactive list because his merry band of boosters take them out of the boxes in thare pilfering madness! But this gellatin is a beeatch with these BRAND name jobbies! And Ibee thinks he will just give up and them rot in detention and pick new GENERIC clients from now on to GO to Bat for! Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE -The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. ô¿ôWareami



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 05-25-02 12:49 No 314102	An experiment with tyvek	Bookmark Reply
	I just got back from Swis' house. He asked me to relay what transpired in a dream. In this dream Swis says he motored on down to pick up some Tyvek envelopes. The mailing institution had a couple of federal employees working at the time. He didn't know if he was supposed to pay for them? He walked out with a stack free of charge. Swis engaged in pseudo acquisition and stumbled upon (19) 48ct boxes of 60mg with tripolidine. Here are some of the inactives. Povidone, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, magnesium stearate, corn starch, sucrose, lactose, polyethylene glycol. Maybe talc not sure boxes not present. Swis grinded in electric coffee grinder until a fine powder and funneled contents into mason jar. Swis was on a mission! He found a plastic container labeled as "Paint Thinner". He checked the MSDS. Product listed as 100% Mineral Spirits. Didn't know whether it was necessary to dry this solvent so he prepared a bag of MgSO4*7H20. He placed the epsoms salt into a metal casserole dish and placed in the oven at 450f for about an hour and a half. He waited until it turned into a brick like slab resembling sheetrock. A screwdriver was used to break into smaller pieces and he used a second jar to swirl the solvent around in for a few minutes. This solvent was filtered through two coffee filters. The approximately 912 60mg Povidone ridden pills were soaked for 48 hrs with intermittent shaking in between. 48 hrs later a turkey baster was used to decant MS layer. More dry MS added and another 48 hour soak employed. This was decanted as before. More MS added and a third soak conducted for approx 3 hrs. The jar was swirled around and poured through two coffee filters. Without a turps soak, Povidone will usually clog coffee filters like nothing flat, but the solvent cut through filters easily like butter... 4 doubled up filters/ 4 jars were used for filtering. Not all the sediment would fit in one. The filters were allowed to completely dry for 24 hrs. Sediment placed in visionware pan and crushed and stirred with homemade glass stirring rod under previously dried acetone. This was lightly boiled in acetone for 5-10 minutes. Sediment filtered once again through 4 doubled up filters. Filtered "pink" acetone wash solvent was jarred up and set on a cold concrete floor over night. 4 Tyvek rectangles were cut out with scissors and each of the filters were twisted up tightly in the Tyvek. 3 ft of linked rubber bands were used to tightly secure the raquetball size ball of GUPs. 2 tyvek tea bags were placed in each jar and 1 bottle of meoh poured on top. That makes two jars with 4 tea bags. A 12 hr soak was conducted. After 12 hrs a homemade funnel from the meoh bottle via Fudgemonkey was prepared with Charmin for fine filtering. (Probably was not necessary!) First soak evapped for 11 g's pink crystally/powdery pseudo. Wasn't as crystally or transparent as what one could expect from an A/B extraction but clean nonetheless. A 2nd soak for 8 hrs took place and 12.75 g's came back from the 4 tea bags. Swis checked the acetone container that had been sitting over night decanted acetone into a glass measuring cup. The jar had a crystal clear sediment on the bottom. Meoh added and swirled poured off into vision and evapped for approx 4 more gs. These 4 gs came out like glass. So far 27.75 back out of 53 possible. Swis says he will continue to pull a 3rd time and a 4th if necessary. Apparently Swis was just talking in his sleep. He needs to get this sleeping disorder checked out before its too late. I'll let you know how the dream ended... Edit: The second pull appeared slightly cleaner than the first!?? ______________ Refuse/Resist



Whizard (Newbee) 05-25-02 19:52 No 314272	Tyvek Partitioned Cells	Bookmark Reply
	So Oh wise and very clever BEE (not beeing sarcastic at all) Would this material serve the subject purpose also?!? It seems it might ... gotta find out! I dunno, but I been told ... You never slow down, you never grow old!



Hammer (Newbee) 05-26-02 06:44 No 314421	%Return	Bookmark Reply
	What's the average % by weight one can expect using this method. 75% ?



wareami (Hive Addict) 05-26-02 14:56 No 314542	Purr scents!	Bookmark Reply
	Here Kitty.... Well, the NervousBrakeDownKidz finally brokedown and decided to try this onestop method... Since they hadn't had the chance to stop by the local telegram department...They decided to settle for giving the obsolete 5¼" Floppy Diskette Sleeve a GO! 24 hours have passed with 10-....12hr 120's Brand Sudo, wrapped whole inside the Sloppy Fleeve and dunked inside a spice jar containing 50ml Denatured Alky. It's all good cause the jar is slender and eliminated the need to use rubberbands when the sleeve was all folder around the 10 whole sudo's. At twelve hours...when shaken...Nothing was noticed...but at 24 hours...ribbons were noticed inside the CLEAR alky when swirled! Hmmmmmmmmm.... The only decision now is...Should the Kidz let it sit for an additional 24hrs giving the total time 48hrs or pour off whats extracted so far and reapply some fresh Denatured Alky. Decisions Decisions!!!!! By all indications so far....This looks like it may work! And if any purrscentages come in under 99% return for all this waiting!!! It's back to the DrawingBored for the KIDZ! Theyare getting 99% back on OffBrand 120's although some is sacrificed to the 2%milkiness that comes over with it when doing the e-gull and denat extract! And Dchef will be happy to know that Ibee fired those boosters! He can't work without the essential writing on the boxes! Plus it's just not good Karma! He thinks that's why those first 3 boxes remain imprisoned! Ill gotten goods...do ya no good! Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt ô¿ôWareami



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 05-26-02 16:12 No 314561	Finals on Povidone...	Bookmark Reply
	I got the finals back from Swis. While still in a dream state he said the third pull (including more settling in the acetone jar) brought back 5 gs. The 4th and final pull brought back little to nothing ending in a total of 35 possible out of 53. Unless my math is wrong this adds up to approximately 66% yield with these Povidone ridden pills. Swis has determined that the A/B extraction (after turps cure) is faster, yields pretty much the same. Depending on what part of the envelope was used determined if the pseudo came back white or pink. 6-8 hr soaks do not yield as much as a 12 hr soak. The pulls as mentioned before by another bee yield a pretty consistant amount every time. In Swis' dream approx 3-3.5gs per 230 pill tea bag with each one. For those newbees that don't have much experience with an A/B extraction this is slower but gets the job done and can be a viable alternative for them! Congrats to Honeysmoker and Dwarfinger for innovation in action. Question is will the post rxn A/B rid the pink discoloration? Or should I change my signature to "Supreme Pink Powder"? _____________ Refuse/Resist



wareami (Hive Addict) 05-26-02 16:37 No 314563	Yep...Pinkless PostRxn	Bookmark Reply
	SDawg: If all the pfed reduces...then yes, it will not be present in the post-rxn final product...The only time the Kidz have had pinkness in the end, was when unreacted was present! Ibee is curious if those yields could be increased with a bit of tweeking...His philosophy is "What goes In...Must come Out" Unless the atmospheric-anile-ate-her rears it's ugly head! Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt ô¿ôWareami



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 05-26-02 17:08 No 314576	Increase yields by tweeking	Bookmark Reply
	Yes I agree with Ibeeware that maybe something more can be done to boost the yields a bit. Its not as though Swis can control the contents of his dreams. Next time Swis enters an insomnambulistic state and has visions of clandestine chemistry extractions. I wonder if he won't just take off the rubberbands and re-open the teabags stir the dried powder up a bit in the coffee filters. Twist it up again, put more bands on and give it another soak. Increasing the surface exposure of the pseudo to meoh? It is also making me wonder if meoh penetrates to the core of the teabag and center of the wrapped pillstock? I wish that fucker would hurry up and go back to sleep... ____________ Refuse/Resist



Prepuce (Newbee) 05-27-02 21:42 No 315068	Tyvek + EGull?	Bookmark Reply
	How many of UBEES have done an Egull Wash First.... Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh? Because ya know......Dwarfer is always right in the compoundment department as far as predictability's.... ========================================= Hey, Wareami, SWIM did, uh, kinda. Remember earlier discussions on super-gakked red hots? SWIM just happened to still have a small sample of the sticky, brown goo that he had worked so hard to clean earlier. He tried drying it out in the microwave using the lowest setting, but it melted and started to smoke. (Smelled like sugar melting.) He got it out in a hurry and finished drying it using the old mild heat and back of a spoon technique. Then he went at it with the cleaning fluid. SWIM's gotta hand it to ya--that stuff cleans more shit out of the damn pills than anything else he knows of. Likewise with this shit. Pulled out the usual whiteish gooey crap. For good measure SWIM did a second dry cleaning, although nothing more seemed to come out. He let the cleaner dry, then washed with acetone. Ah, shit. Still gakked. Put back in the cabinet. Then SWIM read about the tyvek. Yeah! Get the brown bubblegum back out, he thought. (Especially since it did such a nice job on the easier to clean variety, and so quickly!) He chose a nice piece of his envelope, one with no ink so he would hapefully get pristine, glittering crystals out of this disaster yet. Unfortunately not. SWIM was disappointed to find pretty much the same gak he started with. The reason may be that he didn't get the tyvek very tight around the small amount of remaining substance. The unnerving point, though, is that there are pills out there that resist even the brake cleaner. It could be that they would fare better if cleaned before the poly-whatevers get activated. But there's another problem SWIM never bothered to mention. He couldn't find anything that would remove the shiny red coating without also disolving the pills. Scary, huh? PP



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-28-02 08:34 No 315214	SWIG tries again	Bookmark Reply
	SWIG said he played with more generic 120's this weekend. He put half in one tyvek ball and half in the other. He soaked both in MeOH. One of these was allowed to soak for ten hours undisturbed. The alcohol the other was immersed in was changed every two hours to get an idea of how fast the pseudo moved through the tyvek and to see whether changing the alcohol had a measurable effect on pulling the psuedo through the fabric. SWIG evapped the alky after each two hour period and got very small quanitities of pseudo. He did this for two, four and six hours, skipped eight (asleep) and evapped both a ten. The net result was there was more pseudo from the ball that soaked ten hours than from the one where the alcohol was changed regularly. Yield was five and a half grams of available pseudo. (Small quantities and mutliple evaporations increase mechanical losses as a percentage of yield.) Both balls were soaked another four hours before they were removed and squeezed hard. They were immersed in fresh alcohol again for two more hours, squeezed again, and the combined alcohol from both soaks was evaporated. The second "pull" netted three and a half grams additional pseudo. Net yield nine grams of pseudo from 13.2 maximum available. Not bad, 68%, given there were six evaporations, each having a mechanical loss. SWIG said next time he soaks for eight, then four, then two, then evaporates. He did add this most interesting point of information, however. He said he did something to the decongestant that involved iodine and phosphorous. I did not understand what he was trying to say completely, but he mentioned "no gakk" and "mirror interface" and "based by looking at it hard" and "eighty percent first pull" and "glass in the bowl." He had a big smile, could not shut up, and was planning on overhauling the motor on his truck. I do not know what he was meaning for me to pass on, but he said most of the folks would know. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-28-02 13:34 No 315293	meaningful SMP subject	Bookmark Reply
	May 28, 2002 Comments, observations, etc.: as generated. 1. Scottydog is “pretreating” the feedstock. It si Always a benefit to merge concepts you know with new ones. W(TF)amI mentioned this way up there: do de eagle juice first.. (admission of over enthusiam follows) I was like “throw the other shit out this is #1 cool”: in my initial post: typical ebullient horse shit from yours truly: Do what’s easy for you that you know works, and throw in this technique as another powerful tool for overcoming the efforts of the adulterers. For a “one stop” fixer-upper, it can’t be beat: at least with my “preferred embodiments”to which I have access... Mostly like generic Facti-Fed, but it has no sugar or povidone... ==================== To Scottydog and others, another tip, (with no undue consequences noted..) Heat the alcohol to boiling, or (if ya can) put the container with wrapped GUP ball and alky in a microwave on the lowest power setting ya got... Make sure you check frequently so the alky does not boil away....... Speeds things up quite dramatically, like 1 hour is (90% approx ) complete for an 18 gm ball. This is straight grindings, no pretreatment... Yeah, some brownish gunk comes over, but is readily cleaned up with tone... Oh yeah: I don’t think mineral spirits holds much if any water: but if I’m wrong, set me straight.. 2. Ware, try heating it like above, chang the alky once or twice. I seriously doubt that it will get to the level you mentioned fro EgullllllllllllllBoyz. The portion of your Tyvek membrane pushing up against the glass wall is not working worth a damn. There is little or no flow. This is one factor reducing the efficiency of your experiment. If you use rubber bands or other method for making a tight ball, like has been said like 34 times.......... If you had a couple of rigid plastic or ?? Plates with a ton of holes in it, then you could use a god damn sleeve if the friggin thing was sealed. Why does a friggin baloon make a friggin sphere when blowed up?? Minimum area/volume rules, right? Maybe a friggin sealed sleeve would take the pressure at the seams when the internal pressure trys to make a friggin sphere: why not just make a ball shape kinda, so when it trys to make a sphere it has a friggin chance? Besides how you gonna seal the GD sleeve?? Everything dwarfer says to ô¿ôWare(TF) is he? should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt “:<) Scottydog. “It is also making me wonder if meoh penetrates to the core of the teabag and center of the wrapped pillstock? I wish that fucker would hurry up and go back to sleep.” What makes the MeOH be effective?? 1. Density gradient. Change in concentration of the mobile species per / distance... So when you start off, the yield is greatest per unit of time, because all that pre-good stuff is right next to the SMP, which is right next to the clear alkie, and BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO EXTRA SPACE IN YOUR TIGHTLY WRAPPED GUP BAG THE SURROUNDING ALKIE BECOMES ALMOST INSTANTLY SATURATED YOO HOO 2. So, to repeat the calculus inaccuracy above, the next “shell” layer inside which is NOT next to the SMP has to “wait in line” for the upper shell to more or less vacate before it begins to migrate into that shell... And so on and so on down to the Nth shell, which is a “POINT” at the center of the GUP ball which a. has the furthest to go and b. Has the least to give, being smaller...... So can you see why the yield versus time curve has the x axis as an asymptote? Since the movement is dictated by random vibrations, and vibration is temperature, is it intuitively obvious why temp increase is predictive of quicker yields?1 prepuce.. He couldn't find anything that would remove the shiny red coating without also disolving the pills. look up “best Red Remover in the Known Universe” Pulled out the usual whiteish gooey crap. <<came across some of that, I think...first time for me. Drys and cleans up with tone like the real thing, except the crystals look flatter and chunkier... VERY soluble in water, but guess what: insoluble in isopropyl, heh heh: allowing sep of good from bad. Hope this is the same stuff. I’m mentioning that here (kinda off topic) because I’m coming back to it... Der Geezemeister Not bad, 68%, given there were six evaporations, each having a mechanical loss. Should maybe be a mechanical loss in getting it to the scale?? Where else..?? He had a big smile, could not shut up, and was planning on overhauling the motor on his truck. I do not know what he was meaning for me to pass on, but he said most of the folks would know. _{bet dat' truck be faster too, when he done????} Interesting results, but not what I expected, with the condom.... Wrapped it in a polyester screen-like material, to assure it was just the condom being tested... With alcohol a brownish tint fluid came through that was crap. Another alkie soak same, but less. Soaked with H2O, and got LOTS of yield. :Turns out most of it was the stuff prepuce described above. Looked good and white, but was der shitz.... ?? Incomplete, by this time there should be only binders and pre-goodies in that damned bag... TOTALLY confused.. Another test with Tyvek worked out fine.. My yields remain un measured, but I don’t care all that much... TO DO: In a combo venture, will put totally dry isopropyl alcohol in PP/SS and heat to 100C. (Will tie GUP ball with wire, since rubber bands would fail...(I think.)) This should: be a one stop fast extract no filter anti junk technique. On the other hand, it might suck. Oh well..... dwarfer



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 05-28-02 15:03 No 315315	Getting to the core!	Bookmark Reply
	Thanks Dwarfer for your wisdom and knowledge in this area and the detailed explanation as to How and Why the tyvek does what it does in the time span necessary to complete the job. So I take it the drying of the MS is unecessary? Cool deal! Learn something new everyday! Much appreciated. In a dream state wanted to thank you guys at the hive for all the money he is saving on solvents, fumes and PH paper... A multiple personality of Swis said that while in a dream state he imagined removing the rubber bands allowing the coffee filters to completely dry. He then crushed up the pill mass, stirred and re-twisted the GUP pill mass as tight as possible with tyvek and proceeded with an additional soak. (Edit: Soak was 30 hrs) Two jars/ 2-230 pill tea bags per jar/ 1 bottle meoh per jar. Netted approx an additional 4 gs per evaporation. Ending in 43 out of 53 possible. Approximately 81% with Povidone!!! Or is this the end tally? Swis theoretically nearly threw a potential $400 down the shitter. This doesn't happen on Wareami's watch. Thanks brother... _____________ Refuse/Resist



Payin2Much (Hive Bee) 05-28-02 19:25 No 315436	Fuck It, For Now	Bookmark Reply
	SWIP throws his hands up in disgust! SWIP has wasted several weeks in an attempt to extract soodo from generic reds & whites w/ chloro. Dwarfer reports: And don’t worry about a great big giant ball of GUP’s because the same phenomenon will eventuate although it might take longer. Just sample at intervals, make a graph, and viola you got her nailed. I disagree, at least in a reasonable timetable. Maybee its pores are full of shit, maybee SWIP is full of shit, but he reports amazingly slow transfer using Priority envelope. OK Dwarfer my friend, SWIP isn't giving up, he's just tired of waiting. Back to the brake shoes boyz for him... for now. What a Long, Strange Trip it's Been



mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 05-28-02 21:06 No 315466	Re: he reports amazingly slow transfer using ...	Bookmark Reply
	he reports amazingly slow transfer using Priority envelope. SWIM, a different SWIM, has had these same results...Has tried several varities of envelopes, and all with slow and/or lower yields. SWIM has used only 120's in said 'Priority' Process. Both in GUP form and whole form, with non-GUP working better. (There is a few area's that SWIM knows of causing the hinderance, but did reliese that only ONE layer of the Tyvek should be used...2 layers took days for 20 120's) Have been thinking of getting some scrap 1" - 1.5" PlexiGlass or acrylic. Making a half sphyre in what will be the bottom piece. Drilling a shit loads of tiny holes going out the bottom. Making another piece that will match up to the bottom. Add a few bolts and have just assembled a simple vise for ringing out dem' ballz. *Wait, did you hear that? I think someone is out side!!!*



Prepuce (Newbee) 05-28-02 21:46 No 315488	Hi, Dwarfer. From yesterday's post: "He couldn't ...	Bookmark Reply
	Hi, Dwarfer. From yesterday's post: "He couldn't find anything that would remove the shiny red coating without also disolving the pills. " Dwarfer: "look up “best Red Remover in the Known Universe” SWIM Just did that, and find it's the technique SWIM has always used. He says he can't believe other bees haven't run into this yet. How can he be so lucky!? The only bright side is that the last time he visited the warehouse that sells these things at ~$8 --for a bundle of three boxes of 96--the shelves were bare. No matter. He's pretty sure he could have resisted the temptation to try again. SWIM: "Pulled out the usual whiteish gooey crap." (with dry cleaning solvent) Dwarfer replies: <<came across some of that, I think...first time for me. Drys and cleans up with tone like the real thing, except the crystals look flatter and chunkier... VERY soluble in water, but guess what: insoluble in isopropyl, heh heh: allowing sep of good from bad. Hope this is the same stuff. >> SWIM: Shit! So does SWIM, but there's another similar threat. Not only does it dry up in tone, but it comes through a rxn and A/B intact. A bee would never know it's there unless and until he did a recrystalization. SWIM recently dreamed he conducted a very clean run, almost pristine thanks to the brake cleaner. The end result looked as appealing as any he had ever seen, and yeilds following kerplunking/tone wash looked good. Chuckling to himself as he mixed it with MeOH, he could just see those big, shiny, chunky crystals that would be in the beaker the next morning. He got the alcohol down to about the right point and splashed in the tone. Oh, yeah, here comes a few little seed crystals to get things started. <tee, hee> But what's this!? Suddenly the beaker fills up with what looks just like clean, wet snow! Fills up!!! Where before there was maybe a quarter inch of powder at the bottom. He sloshes it around for a bit and the snow seems to "melt" back into the tone, with a much reduced volume of whitish snow swirling in the liquid. SWIM thinks he might be losing his marbles, so he shoves it in the freezer, denying that he ever saw what he just described. The next day he pulls it out, trys to look through the bottom of the frosted beaker and thinks he sees some fairly large shards. . . But when he gets it open he finds it just about the way he left it the day before. In a philosophical mood, he evaps the tone and what's left of the MeOH. WTF. Still some top notch gogo. Bright white and sparkling. Crunchy in just the right way. All in all not too much to complain about, but SWIM can't help wondering how much better it might have been if he could have made crystals. Later he finds out that he can get some crystals by mixing the product with a little MeOH and sitting it on the shelf overnight. Results not nearly as good as dual solvent, but at least there are some results. Also discovered that it doesn't matter what the dual solvents are. He started again with H2O + acetone = same results as before. IPA might be the one thing SWIM has not yet tried to clean it with. He's got a really wistful, yet hopeful look on his face, so I think he's gonna try it and report back. Great thread! In fact SWIM thinks it's the best yet, and thanks all the bees researching the key questions with such dedication and determination. Sure as HELL paid off, so thanks too for sharing! Over and out, PP



mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 05-29-02 03:50 No 315578	120's shells	Bookmark Reply
	Just read...http://www.avicel.com/contents/applications.cfm?application_id=155&subsite_id=2 *Wait, did you hear that? I think someone is out side!!!*



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-29-02 15:19 No 315754	white goooo..	Bookmark Reply
	I accidently discovered that ISOpropyl alcohol did not dissolve the stuff, so if it is the same as what I had (first time and got lucky on "cure") you got her whipped.. A multiple personality of Swis said that while in a dream state he imagined removing the rubber bands allowing the coffee filters to completely dry. He then crushed up the pill mass, stirred and re-twisted the GUP pill mass as tight as possible with tyvek and proceeded with an additional soak. (Edit: Soak was 30 hrs) Yeah, why not move the center stuff out close to the edge, or at least mix it and re-soak.. good idea. Paying2much?? WTF?? sure you are not trying to extract marbles?? ":<) How can you get NUFFIN?? ??? I'm at a loss... maybe the laws of physics are inop where you hang? dude: wire off a knot and do the hot alcohol and if you don't get some reasonable results I'll come out there and kiss your butt. mnkyboy77 I was thinking similarly to you. Reverse osmosis plants use pressure to drive the process in reverse. Imagine a 2 1/2 " PVC pipe with a screw on end cap with a hole in it. You put a piece of Tyvek across the end, and screw on the end cap over it, making a drum-tight membran. You put in your GUPS, with alcohol, and screw on your other end cap, which conveniently has had a Schraeder or Presta valve installed, and pump it up to about 30 PSI. Swirl it around after a while to make sure everything gets a good chance of being extracted. ================== I apologize for beating on poor Ware.. dwarfer



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-31-02 07:38 No 316299	micro extracting w/tyvek	Bookmark Reply
	SWIG stumbled on a stash of 20 count 120's at today's version of a five-and-dime store, stopped by the post office on the way home, dropped a tyvek ball of pearls in a beaker of MeOH and popped it in the microwave on the lowest power setting. Fifteen minutes later, he poured out the whitish alky, not liking the look of it at all, and added fresh alky to the jar. He repeated this at ten minutes, ten minutes, and ten minutes. He put all four pulls in pyrex plate sitting on his crock pot and let the alky evaporate away, then added cold acetone. The white pseudo floated off the glass, for the most part, by swirling the acetone in the dish. The rest dislodged easily when bumped by a finger. No scraping. The acetone was clean, had no floaters, and grew no crystals. SWIG really likes the look of that! Forty five minutes in the micro and a slow evaporation gives him a filter full of pseudo that from all the signs is plenty damn clean. Two hours and fifteen minutes after the green-bills-for-white-pills moment he has a pile of ready-to-react psuedo that weighs in at seventy percent of what was available in the pills to start with. And that includes the driving time to get home, popping out the pills and forming the tyvek ball. Too bad he ran out of MeOH-- another pull might have added to the pile. (It might also have been the pull that started pulling some other ingredients too.) He can tell what he has extracted is good to go. Damn! No solvent boils, no a/b, no recrystalizing. This is getting to be fun again! Tweaking the Brownian vibrato of the pseudo molecule via microwave to facilitate migration past postal barriers is a refinement in tyvek technique that wins for Dwarfer Geezmeister's nomination for Nobel Prize in Adulterant Foiling. Geez's hat is off to your Dwarfer! An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



dchef (Hive Bee) 05-31-02 08:01 No 316304	Man sweet work Geeze and co.	Bookmark Reply
	Man sweet work Geeze and co., Got to hand it to you guys you are going to make swims work a lot easier the next trip to the lab he cant wait. Thanx to all of you who are pioneering these wonderful processes for all of us. Meth, it does a body good



GOD (Hive Bee) 05-31-02 11:20 No 316358	are all of the envelopes made with dupont tyvex ...	Bookmark Reply
	are all of the envelopes made with dupont tyvex suitable? Swim asks 'cause he sees a green and whie envelope (it has a small picture of a duck on it) NOT aquired from post office, but is advertized as a water and chemical resistant envelope. He seems to remember dwarfer rambling about beeing able to blow through the 'paper'. Swim is unable to do this with his envelope. He will give this a try anyways- but wonders if in the future he should shy away from tyvex touted to bee chem+water resistant. when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-31-02 11:40 No 316363	GLADTO SEE RESULTS	Bookmark Reply
	Now if I can JUST get "paying 2 much" on board..":<) ================ Actually, it's easier to "suck" thru the fabric, because a. it's easier to get a seal and b. the VERY slight air passage will cause an evaporative cooling on yer tongue.. (no cooling? must be da wrong stuff..) Note: the holes are actually marginally on the large side, actually, but work..... dwarfer



Hammer (Hive Bee) 05-31-02 11:44 No 316365	tyvex	Bookmark Reply
	Swim knows for a fact some forms of tyvex manufactured from Dupont resist water, certain chemicals and radioactive particulate matter. It's commonly used when working with chemicals and radioactive materials as level 3(level 1 being highest) protection according to the hazerdous waste worker's manual.



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-31-02 12:18 No 316377	types	Bookmark Reply
	SWIG he uses one kind of phos or another and is not a bircher because they shoot birchers where he lives. He said the zapped-tyvek-wrapped-pearls surrendered pseduo clean enough to react with RP or hypo as is, without further crystalizing or other refinement. He cleaned his rp after the last run to check for wax, oil, trash and such and was surprised to find that one rinse with acetone left the red p clean---the second rinse came through with only a very slight tint. He warned that this observation was true of pseudo extracted to about 65-70% of that available pseudo in generic 120 mg time-release pearls. Rule of thumb on whether the pseudo is clean enough to use? let some of your alky dry on glass and feel it. Smudge it with a finger. Does it stick to the glass? Need a blade to get it off? Does it smear? If any of the above are true, it needs cleaning. If it falls off when nudged with a finger, or if it comes loose in flakes from the glass when acetone is swirled around in the pan, that's a decent indication that is clean enough for use as is. He said in his experience to date (which is pretty damned limited) that after the 70% mark he's getting some waxy-oily gakk with the pseudo. The extract is white and looks clean but has this stuff hiding in it and it is not entirely acetone soluble. It is both alcohol and water soluble. He is accumulating these tail-ends (has about seven grams so far) and when he lacks for something better to do he will see what cleans 'em. (He said he'd been breaking down the motor from his truck and he'll be ready to play as soon as he parks that small block and the crank at the machine shop) He wanted to be sure I passed on his caveat (he called it a warning) that pulling hard with alcohol will extract some other stuff across the tyvek when the available psuedo falls low enough that the alky has a chance to work on other stuff that is not as soluble as pseudo but is present with it. He said he's used what he's obtained to the 70% mark without problem and with success but gives no warranty on the other thirty percent. Yet. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 05-31-02 12:47 No 316384	white crapola	Bookmark Reply
	Geeze,good on ya fer your observations. That white crap is brand new to me as of last weekend. I presume it is the same because 1. yeah, it ain't 'tone soluble 2. it cleans up and looks good but it ain't. (also the crystals are "flatter"..) Now try this.... heh heh Take that crap, put it in a "hearts of artichoke" jar that has been cleaned.. (effite glass snobs will use a beaker..) Pour some DRY ISOPROPYL over it, and stir... well I'll be dipped in crap: looky there: That white crystal has turned to snot and fallen to the bottom, where it makes a whitish looking siliconish pool in the corner.. Then, using a turky baster (glass snobs will use a bulb pipette..) suck off the supernatant alcohol, evap it, an viola: a good chunk of the 20 or 30%comes back.. now evap the snot back to crystals. Put a couplea drops of water in there.. That stuff is WAY water soluble. That why you hafta use DRY alkie... dwarfer



mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 05-31-02 13:05 No 316391	White Crap	Bookmark Reply
	The extract is white and looks clean but has this stuff hiding in it and it is not entirely acetone soluble. SWIM has seen this gaak for many months, (as mentioned before, SWIM only uses 120 mg pearls). Correct, its not very soluable in Tone, nore Tol, Naptha, Gull-Juice, TURPS, Mineral Oil, Carb Cleaner, Engine Degreaser, Starting Fluid--You name it! MEK worked better but still extremely inefficant. (Thats why SWIM thinks that gaak is POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL 200--Good luck finding the sol/insol data on that). Its been found that the only way to gain controil over the milky parcipitate is take the alc solution, cover, and place in the freezer for several hours. This causes it to chunk up. Filtering is also done in the freezer to try keep as little of it going through as possible. *Wait, did you hear that? I think someone is out side!!!*



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 05-31-02 14:14 No 316414	white crap	Bookmark Reply
	Dwarfer: SWIG's run into the white crap before. It will follow through the reaction and lessen the yield. It will clog the acetone jar. It will form what looks like crystals that melt into the filter. SWIG salted out a quart of ISO last night and will store it over dried epsoms tonight. That may be dry enough. If you have a source for dry ISO other than that red plastic bottle stuff --- pm me about it 'cause SWIG wants to give your method a try. (He said he uses a big eyedropper from the Walmart auto section used to test battries instead of an effete pipette, and W.E.Garrett and Sons snuff glasses instead of beakers. Would a pickled Okra jar work? Okra he knows, but artichokes seems to him to be something guys in trucks avoid.) Mnkyboy: SWIG ran into the white shit working with pearls before, but does not believe it to be unique to pearls. He agrees it was insoluble in most everything and it was giving him fits bad enough he quit using the pearls for awhile. He suspects this and that oil you mentioned are related. I just had a thought here that belongs in another thread about something other than tyvek. And this thread IS about tyvek. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 06-01-02 00:38 No 316591	relation	Bookmark Reply
	He suspects this and that oil you mentioned are related. Related if not one in the same but does not believe it to be unique to pearls. Correct on that. SWAG occasionally used the red's. Used to brag about how there was not as much fuss SWAG's way. Well, in the last few months, SWAG is now in the same boat as SWIM. SWIM feels that due to childish behavior and boasting on SWAG's part, maybe SWAG should have to figure it out on his own? (Well, at least until SWAG learns to UTFSE). Dwarfer: Fairly good results with the SS/PP + Tyvak + (MeOH + EtOH). To small of a run to tell if the effort is worth it, so a scaled up trial must be ran. *Wait, did you hear that? I think someone is out side!!!*



foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 06-01-02 11:03 No 316697	iso	Bookmark Reply
	geez My local "safety market", don't know if you have those near you, has 99% iso for $0.99/pint right next to the typical 70% drug store stuff!!! Dry and go. Also found that turps, followed by iso pull/tone crash gives 70-80% clean clean clean from tasty 120s don't know how this would extrapolate to tyvek Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-01-02 12:00 No 316706	not chere	Bookmark Reply
	no safe stores in the area since the bankruptcy and the closest we can come to dry iso is 91% a Wal*****'s. The red bottle ISO for drying gas lines is not available or is sold old right now....I'll have enough of the viscuous ISO this pm anyhow. The pearls do not list povidone, at least the generics do not, and swig has not seen anything like povidone in the post reaction mix...why the turps? Mnkyboy: the point of the last two posts was that with tyvek alone Swig was getting pseudo clean enough to react from the pearls. And in incredibly short times for someone used to doing A/b's or full cures...Frankly, if its that simple, SWIG'll cast a few pearls before swine. SWIG was on his way to the machine shop with his small block and noted to me (when he stole more coffee from my pot) that he left some np above a mirror-like interface and was going to do something he called "pull" when he got home. Hell, I thought he had that motor out already. He seemed in good spirits to have been working so much lately. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 06-01-02 13:58 No 316733	Semi End Results	Bookmark Reply
	After one week of juggling methanol and 99% iso in and out of his 500ml pyrex measuring cup swim got a grand total of 12 grams (out of 14.6) out of his tyvek "onion" GUP ball. He did find that the psuedo came out at quicker rates with the addition of heat and also beleives that if he persisted that the final 2.6 grams would also come out. He just didn't want to use up the rest of his alky chasin' it. Never before has he got this much yeild from the the super gakked 120s so, for these particular pills at least, it shall remain his new extraction method of choice. Thanks to all who contributed to this. For the 120's swim is sold on it. Patience is the hallmark of a true tweaker.



GOD (Hive Bee) 06-01-02 17:48 No 316782	swims tryin the 45 min micro/tyvex pull ala geez.	Bookmark Reply
	swims tryin the 45 min micro/tyvex pull ala geez. First pull has so far resulted in PINK. Yuck! will keep posted edit: second pull, just the slightest tint of pink -for lazyness sake, if the next two pulls come out clear or whiteish, swim will separate the meoh fractions for evap. it'd bee oh so nice if one could do this in a (completly)lazy fashion... when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.



Prepuce (Newbee) 06-01-02 22:44 No 316809	Tyvek: maybe something else to watch	Bookmark Reply
	Thanks for a good post, Geez. All in all, SWIM is as happy as a honey smoker with a full pipe. He ran into an interesting effect while experimenting with tyvek, though, that he thought he'd pass along. He used it on a batch of red hots that have always been the easiest he's found to clean, but of course before tyvek that meant hours of different steps to get it just passable. Anyway, he wrapped a nice ball of pills that had been de-redded but not crushed, and secured it tightly with several turns of aluminum wire. He wrapped it at multiple angles so it would really hold together, and it worked great. But. . . When he examined the ball after letting is soak in MeOH overnight, he discovered a pinkish ooze beginning to exude from the sides of the tyvek. He thought at first that he had penetrated the material with an end of the wire, but no, it was exuding and a few little peices had fallen to the bottom of the container. Since there was no indication that it had mixed at all, SWIM took a single coffee filter and emptied the container through it and onto a drying plate. Once the MeOH evapped, it was obvious that very little if any of the exuded material had disolved. The same thing happened after the second soaking, also an overnighter with the wire even tighter, since SWIM had been thinking that the greater pressure might help. What it netted him was a greater quantity of the exuded material. Once through the coffee filter and gone, just like before. Now he's thinking that pressure surely helps the process, but past a certain point it can be counter productive. Cheers, PP



GOD (Hive Bee) 06-02-02 12:36 No 316874	yeah, swim too!	Bookmark Reply
	swims a wee disappointed too, did the above, then couldnt log in to bitch and moan 'cause the ugly pink shit definatly came over (these where 120's with no povidone- pink=methocel right?) anyways, the first two meoh "nukes" pulled over the bulk of the pink shit, so swim set that aside. The final two "nukes" pulled some much cleaner shit, but when evaporated, left a slight "needling" pattern, but with a smooth as hell shiney "mirror". Back to the drawing board, or maybee a wee little more practice for swim, but for now hes gonna run a cure on whats left of his crappy pull(s). (tyvex from priority mail was used, a few feets worth of rubberbands was 'pigtailed' around the end of the ball to make it tight) when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 06-02-02 12:59 No 316885	Pink	Bookmark Reply
	Re: _________________ Pink = methocell right? _________________ Not necessarily methocell! In Swis' dream he used white 60's. The pink came as a result of the red and blue dyes in the tyvek envelope. The pink should clean up well in the post rxn A/B. Swis would normally A/B with the initial pseudo extraction and again post rxn. So far as a result of this Tyvek breakthrough, according to Swis and his dreams the initial A/B has become nothing more than an unnecessary step. (IMHO) Swis is amazed at the results employing "the cure" prior to the soak. Acetone will not do away with all of the pink color, but it does handle a majority of it! Aren't 120's white? The ones I've seen are... ___________ Refuse/Resist



GOD (Hive Bee) 06-02-02 13:43 No 316896	swim wouldnt bee so certain, this is the same ...	Bookmark Reply
	swim wouldnt bee so certain, this is the same pink crap swim encountered with red 30's (that where never 'treated' with tyvex). BTW, the red was removed... (obviously not completly- but enough so's his gup mass was very whitish, just the tiniest bit o pink. The real pink crap didnt ooze out till he did a little (not enough) work on 'em and then went to 'finish up' with a final meoh pull. In the end, swim did an a/b BEFORE the rxn and that cleaned the pink out.. What are the odds/chances of the BLUE and RED 'dyes' from the tyvex producing the same pink with the same texure/feel to 'em as the red hots? could bee wrong though anyhew, swim says 'fuck it' and will go ahead with a little pinkness (did do a xylene like boil/ice cold dry tone rinse whilst still wet from the likeness of xylene- to complete dry to meoh pull to dry to ...a rxn coming soon to a theater near YOU! when someone asks what the sound of one hand clapping sounds like, you should smack them in the ear.



grokstar (Stranger) 06-02-02 23:39 No 317089	Tyvex for sulf 120s	Bookmark Reply
	Anyone tried?? rockin the hive with the Jungle Rhythm flavour



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-03-02 06:27 No 317156	results at 70%	Bookmark Reply
	A little less clean than hoped. No problem with the reaction, but SWIG did get some of that "white stuff" when he dissolved the fruits of his labors in dry ISO. He pulled that little corner of nastiness out of his ISO/goodie jar and proceeded to recrystalize. End result was good, crystalized well. Needed to do it twice to get the product completely clean, before that there was some trash noticeable in the trail where it melted on glass. No effect on quality. SWIG figures the point at which the white stuff comes over is closer to the 60% available pseudo mark than the 70% mark. Dry ISO does seem to get the handle on the white tuff, it will fall like saltwater in alcohol, just let it have a little time to settle and suck it out. SWIG was still very happy this weekend. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-03-02 13:51 No 317239	pinks	Bookmark Reply
	The 120 time release pearls list no povidone. The only pink SWIG has seen was from red ink on the postal service envelope. The blue ink cleans better than the pink ink, which stubbornly stays around to the final a/b. Methocell always looked clear-to-white to SWIG, like albino fish scales clogging his filters. He said he can't recall any pink color to it...but his color vision is probably no better than his sense of smell, or his taste in whiskey. If GOD is seeing needles in the pan as the alcohol evaps, and if his pseudo floats free with an acetone rinse, he's got what he wants. You can have needle "fans" that stick (wax) or are gummy and smear (glycols?). These need to be cleaned more. If they come free right away with acetone swirling in the pan, or even just a touch with the end of the finger, they are likely good to go. Has anyone tried a tyvek-ball extraction of povidone-laden pills without presoaking in turps or other solvent? Any results to report? An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



p2e3r4f5e6c7t8 (Hive Bee) 06-03-02 16:22 No 317284	Codine	Bookmark Reply
	So in what i have read so far, this mothod would bee fucking fantasticif ya want ta do a Codine extraction on OTC pill's. Would i bee correct in saying this, Could someone please verafy my asumption. Ask no question's, and i will tell no lies.



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 06-03-02 16:28 No 317288	The white shit just falls out!	Bookmark Reply
	Re: ______________ but SWIG did get some of that "white stuff" when he dissolved the fruits of his labors in dry ISO. ______________ Excellent information Geez! In a dream Swis picked up the red bottle dried over dehydrated epsoms and poured over the imaginary 43 gs and a layer of sediment is now theoretically falling to the bottom of glass canning jar. Back to the turkey baster for Swis. A dream apparition spoke of necessary refinement to the tyvek extraction process due to lower yields and the questionable purity of the resulting pseudo. Some waxes and glycols coming through? Geez the troubleshooter! Thanks fellow bees, its as if some of you can read Swis' mind! _____________ Refuse/Resist



crunch (Stranger) 06-04-02 21:24 No 317719	not "papertowel "	Bookmark Reply
	he called it" charmin moon tape" warditgo



crunch (Stranger) 06-04-02 22:18 No 317731	excuse my tard retissue	Bookmark Reply
	Maybee aswis said "Charmin" honey pass the moontapethanks guys warditgo



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-05-02 08:39 No 317858	charmin	Bookmark Reply
	SWIG took some of that pseudo that clung to the dish and the filters--with the white stuff in it--that was the product of those final hard microwave pulls of the tyvek 120's ball and its squeezings. This stuff was dirty enough it had to be dissolved in alcohol to get it out of the coffee filter. It was one chunk of hard stuff. SWIG was, for the evening at least, ISO-challenged and truckless, and I wasn't about to drive him into town in the rain. He evidently dicked around all evening without any ISO. I'd told him about the mysterious reference to Charmin at the then-end of this thread. SWIG remembered a long-ago Mr. Clean note on filtering pseudo through five sheets of Charmin. He still has a roll in his suitcase. He said his variation on Mr. Clean's trick is to take one half of one sheet of Charmin tissue, fold it over in half, roll it up like the butt of a cigarette, and pack it in the neck of the filter rather than a cotton ball. SWIG took his nasty pseudo-with-white-crap-in-it and dissolved in hot MeOH because he's got no dry ISO in the woods tonight and I won't take him to town. He wants to see if straight recrystalizing the pseudo will clean the white crap out. His supersaturated alky-pseudo solution won't make crystals, though. Ahhhhhh. He says he's seen that before. (Mnkyboy--I suspect you are right--this white stuff and the oil you wrote about are the same thing. And what troubled SWIG.) Back to Charmin. SWIG heated his alky-pseudo-white crap soulution that would not form crystals to supersaturated whitish thickness, and poured this mixture into chilled dry acetone. Cloudly little shit-crystals appeared at once, and SWIG knew these were impostors-- and yield stealers. Filter these out-- the damp, thick pile of nice white powder obtained will melt into the filter as it dries. Same stuff that keeps those final-product crystals from forming post reaction--stuff that Prepuce talks about--also the reason SWIG quit using the 120 pearls back in February when the new formulation filled the local store shelves. SWIG figures he has removed .75 gm of white crap from his mix. The filtered solution, although cleaner, is still cloudy. SWIG puts it in the funnel with the Charmin plug. This plug catches some dirt and trash the coffee filters let through, but the solution is still cloudy. SWIG (a fellow of the bigger-hammer school of carpentry and the one-more-twist with-a-pipe-wrench school of plumbing) takes the other half sheet of Charmin, rolls it to a butt-sized plug, and crams it tighter than the first one into the neck of the funnel. He pours the solution in the funnel, but this time the Charmin holds most everything...the drip is painfully slow. SWIG soon grabs a tupperware lid and covers the top of the funnel. The lid has a small hole in it, which SWIG blows through, using air pressure to force the solution through the plug. Eureka! The solution is now clear. No cloudiness at all. Imagine that. The solution is thick. He can see the invisible "snakes" swimming in the alcohol. He said he poured this clear solution into a pyrex dish to look at. As the hour was late and he was just dickin' around until he got some dry ISO, he left it on the counter and went to bed. This morning he found the alcohol and acetone had evaporated, leaving clear-looking crystally pseudo on the the bottom of the dish. It is not oily, waxy, greasy, or sticky. It pops right off the glass with with the scrape of a fingernail. It looks like pseudo that was allowed to air dry in the dish. Just like it. Long legs, large crystal structure. The "leg" patterns extend an inch and half to two inches all over the glass. But is it really clean? Did the Charmin plug selectively absorb the remaining white crap? Did removing the crap that formed when the solution was poured in acetone remove enough of the white crap that the Charmin plug got the rest? He doesn't know yet. He asked me to bring him a big red bottle of ISO line drier from the truck parts store after work. He said he wanted to dissolve the contents of the dish in that to see whether his pseudo in the dish still has any of that "white crap" in it. If so, it should sink to the bottom of the beaker when all is dissolved in ISO. He figures that will tell whether the pseudo in the dish is as clean as he thinks it is. And it will tell whether that reference to Charmin in this thread may have more truth to it than one might think. SWIG said this may be a another simple answer to a complex problem. Then again, it might really be an answer. We'll see this evening. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 06-05-02 14:56 No 317958	SMP technique that did not wok	Bookmark Reply
	I suspect that both MeOH and ISO will similarly not dissolve the white snot: your experiment will show if that is true.. <<<Tried the ultimate hot alkie trip with dry iso in the PP/SS bath, but was singularly unimpressed with the amount of crud that came over after a mere 15 minutes of 100C basting.. ======================= <<< does not know why polyethylene glycol 200, if that is what it is, should come over at all: the molecular wt. of that should make it incredibly s l o w.....??? dwarfer



Scottydog (Hive Bee) 06-05-02 21:32 No 318116	Acetone panning	Bookmark Reply
	Swis has also noticed that after using dry ISO on the imaginary 43 gs of pseudo and watching the non soluable white sediment settle to the bottom of the mason jar. He used a turkey baster and syphoned the slightly cloudy solution and evapped to a somewhat cleaner crystalline form. What Swis means by somewhat cleaner is that upon washing with acetone in a vision dish with a panning action floaters appeared and when decanting from the dish these impurities looked like "fake" look a like pseudo but was easily distinguishable by its snow-like appearance. Acetone panning was employed in this fashion three times back to back. After the third acetone wash/panning, no more snow would decant into the filter and a burn test of that which fully settled to the bottom of the dish was clean! This filtered gunk was returned to the mason jar with the original sediment. Swis continued to pull from the sediment with IPA two more times evapping and following up with the acetone panning. Looks like some of these pills have to be panned out like MBRP. That sediment whatever it is tends to trap pseudo but with continuous pulls the precursor can be liberated! This sediment binds to the pseudo giving it a chalk like consistency. In Swis' dream the snow like filler, binder, or surfactant is obviously lighter than the pseudo and with perservearance can be poured off. Swis might try this panning technique after the turps cure and acetone boil without the tyvek. Swis speculates that higher yields may be possible? ____________ Refuse/Resist



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-05-02 21:57 No 318128	post charmin ISO findings	Bookmark Reply
	Charmin didn't get it all. Still had the white stuff. Man that ISO works well---does not dissolve that white stuff. There was very little in the pan of air dried pseudo, and it filtered out. SWIG said he was going to let crystals grow in the ISO and see how clean they are. He was not surprised that this pseudo was filthy--- it was the fifth and sixth micro pulls on a tyvek ball--and one that had been squeezed. He says he wants to do one with NO squeezing. Period. He has in mind doing a process next that involves the micro zapped tyvek MeOH pull, evaporation to acetone crash (not flash)* followed by an ISO dissolve and recrystalization. He has a hunch that he's going to get the white stuff, and just plans on dealing with it. Hell, get it down to that and its still a great system. He isn't sure about pulling from the start with ISO. He has this ancient memory (Neanderthalic?) of getting tons of wax with dry ISO pulls...but that was long ago. If the MeOH can pull to one adulterant and ISO will selectively leave it behind and take the pseudo, that is a two step that this cowboy can dance. Guess he could do a batch with ISO only and see what he gets. * by crashing SWIG means pouring the supersaturated alky\pseudo into cold acetone, rather than flooding the drying, hot solution with acetone. Someone name Dwarfer mentioned doing this, and SWIG noted that the glycol fake crystals that steal from you fall like mad when you do this. You can let them form, filter them out and be shed of that much right then. SWIG is convinced this glycol shit is what has been his bane for the last few months and suspects it is more widespread in its use than first imagined. You have to clean it out. It is a yield eater and a dope stealer. Ahhhh. Another weekend of dicking around. Hey S'Dog: you be right on with the observation about the floaters that aren't what they pretend to be. I agree. Hate to admit that I am wrong, but I am often enough no one is really surprised, including myself. The real final check is recrystalizing the pseudo before using it (thanks for insisting Foxy) That has what has saved SWIG's yields for the last few months because that does clear a lot of this white crap... SWIG still believes the tyvek is good at screening out a lot of adulterants that are otherwise still in the mix...and we knew this one was tough anyway--- didn't we? An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



tmf (Newbee) 06-06-02 03:42 No 318192	Liberate The Precursor!	Bookmark Reply
	S'Dog fuckin crack me up. "...precursor can be liberated" I love it! It's our collective morale imperitive! Returning to the struggle against our precursers oppressors this weekend (hopefully - barring fighting w/s.o. - bah!) Regardless, you know what's way cool that swim's noticed? This thread's been running less than 30 days and collectively the hive has undone MUCH work, research and expense that prolly took way more than 30 days and cost SIGNIFICANTLY more than was spent counter-researching/reverse-engineering it. It's a beautiful thing (really) show swim where else do problems get solved so well, so much co-operation,so quickly and so efficeintly... eh? I'ts a priveledge just to watch happen... and perchance to actually (potentially) participate?! Swim's revolutionary/scientist/methfeind nipples are getting hard just thinking about it! Where the FUCK is my medication!



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-06-02 06:49 No 318237	Not Much	Bookmark Reply
	This morning's collection of pseudo crystals in the dish SWIG grows such things in was paltry. The quantity, as it turns out, was not worth the work. We're talking tail end leavings here, of course, and SWIG (the tightwad scrapper that he is) admitted the pile wasn't worth the effort or cost of the alcohols used to get it. SWIG's not been drunk, but had a sobering thought anyway. (What kind of thought is a "sobering thought" to someone who is not drunk?) Maybe a "second thoughts" thought. Some time back SWIG took Foxy's advice about recrystalizing pseudo with ISO and tone prior to using it. He says that advice should be followed with pseudo from 120 pearls in partiuclar. And he adds this advice: the white stuff in there requires anhydrous ISO. He's been salting out cheapo ISO then drying over epsoms, which gets it pretty damn dry but not all the way. That's not enough with this white stuff. The anhydrous ISO SWIG used last night really brought that home to him. And it brought home to him just how sneaky this "white crap" really is. It does not appear to impede the crystal formation found in slow evaporation, and this makes it tough to detect in an evaporate-and-flash procedure. Particularly if there is any significant level of moisture in the acetone. SWIG is not throwing in a tyvek towel here...not yet. But he also is wondering if his ebullient claims about micro zapping producing clean pseudo may be overstated and the presence of the "white crap" in what is coming over understated. SO: before he misleads everyone on a weekend endeavor that goes awry, he wishes to advise that his estimation of the cleanness of the pseudo he extracted by microwave zapping appears to be overstated. He also suggests and recommends that anyone pursuing that practice do a post-extraction pre-reaction dual solvent recrystalization employing anhydrous ISO and dried acetone as solvents. Dissolve the pseudo in anhydrous ISO and filter out the white stuff that won't dissolve. You may want to even evap this first round and dissolve again in straight ISO to see how much if any "white stuff" is still in there. then grow those pseudo crystals in dry iso and dry tone... It may not be necessary, but SWIG can't say that for sure and does not want to be guilty of giving incorrect information that winds up leading fellow bees astray. The anhydrous ISO is a final check that needs to be in place right now until more evaluation can be done on the zapped-in-tyvek method. If SWIG has mislead anyone to their detriment, he gives his sincere apologies at this time. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 06-06-02 18:49 No 318420	Investigation of PEG-200	Bookmark Reply
	Thanks to scotty and der Geeze for the additional info. I was getting confused about the floaters in the acetone being the "good stuff", because around here, its always been der shitz.. but that's cleared up, and the multi-stage "panning" technique, and doing a "texas 2-step" of 1. dissolving in dry alkie 2. separating the supernatant from the snot 3. drying the supernatant to crystal 4. panning the crystal and disposing of the floaters (which is the same as the snot, in different manifestation" appears to be working. (I guess that's the Texas 4 step??) Because there may be a smidge of water in the supposedly dry alkey, or maybe because there is SOME solubility of the snot in alkie, some is likely to make it into the supernatant, and therefore into the acetone wash. Cool. And it can be recycled till you are satisfied. way cool, in fact: ============================== Title: Polyethylene Glycol. Additional name(s): macrogol; PEG; Literature references: Liquid and solid polymers of the general formula H(OCH2CH2)nOH, where n is greater than or equal to 4. thus the 200 In general, each PEG is followed by a number which corresponds to its average mol wt. Although it is a good guess that this stuff is PEG, it is not, IMHO. Rather, it is some variant on the theme. The stuff settles our of dry ISO with some degree of positivity, indicative of a substantial difference in density . The density of ISO is +- 0.80 of water (temperature influence), that of PEG is 1.12 or so. That sounds right! but: Properties: Clear, viscous liquids or white solids which dissolve in water forming transparent solns. Sol in many organic solvents. Readily sol in aromatic hydrocarbons. Only slightly sol in aliphatic hydrocarbons. oops: acetone should dissolve the heck out of it.. Derivative: Polyethylene glycol 200 Properties: average value of n is 4, mol wt range 190-210. Viscous, hygroscopic liq; slight characteristic odor; d2525 1.127. Viscosity (210 degF): 4.3 centistokes. Supercools upon freezing. Density: 1.127 I hate to throw out the "poly-ampholyte" accusation: it's a broad definition of engineered molecules designed to confound the Knights of Purity: _{Also, if it was POLY-anything with a molecular wt. that big, it would take forEVER to come thru theTyvek.. {little molecules vibrate fast,big 'uns don't...)} but who cares what it is as long as (yuk) it can be dealt with.... _{hmm: I think that panning technique will be useful elseways, too} dwarfer



mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 06-07-02 00:13 No 318493	Freeze that Gaak	Bookmark Reply
	Dwarfer: Thanx for helping to clear that little diddy up about the PEG. SWIM has seen this milky Gaak on a regular bassis. SWIM has found that this Pearl-Milk^Tm must come from a tropical or warm region. When placed in the ol freezer for a few hours, the Pearl-Milk huddels together in globs...(To keep the info here clean, it will be described as SNOT). Another container with a funnel, 1 coffee filter also go into the freezer. Now poor the alky and catch the snot...Beutifully clean alky. This tidbit of info makes one think of The Cure: PHYSICAL CHEMICAL DATA ====================== PHYSICAL DESCRIPTIONS: LITERATURE: Amber-colored, viscous liquid REPOSITORY: Viscous gold liquid MOLECULAR WEIGHT: 1309.68 SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 1.1 DENSITY: 1.064 g/mL MP (DEG C): Not available BP (DEG C): Not available SOLUBILITIES: WATER : 50-100 mg/mL @ 23 C (RAD) DMSO : >=100 mg/mL @ 23 C (RAD) 95% ETHANOL : >=100 mg/mL @ 23 C (RAD) METHANOL : Soluble ACETONE : >=100 mg/mL @ 23 C (RAD)* TOLUENE : Soluble OTHER SOLVENTS: Cottonseed oil: Soluble Corn oil: Soluble Ethyl acetate: Soluble Mineral oil: Insoluble Once there is a few Tyvek Balls laying aboust, SWIM splits dem open, dries em out, and them Cure's 'em via The Cure. (This is done mainly to satisfy TAS Tight Ass Syndrome and also due to bordome prevailing). *Wait, did you hear that? I think someone is out side!!!*



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 06-10-02 13:00 No 319515	GUP/Tyvek ball cross sections	Bookmark Reply
	First of all, I had miserable experience with a mixed bag of 120'3 this past weekend. Mixed, as in some were"major national brand"and some were local store slightly cheaper replicas. Some had povidone, some did not. Now I know what that PINK crap is some spoke about above: I thought it was leached from the ink: wrong! =============== without boring you with the total failure to get anything but snot and pinkness (which I think must be quite similar in chemical construct,) Cutting through the Tyvek balls, each of which spent a total of about 40 minutes in volumes of hot alcohol, it was interesting to note the differential migration of various types of amendments within the globes. The balls were NOT drawn ultra-tight, to facilitate "squishing around the contents"between "pulls". First,the pink crap, which I thought I had mostly extracted through the Tyvek, (WRONGagain..) was concentrated in the UPPER end of the ball, and could be picked out easily as a solid mass. (Almost likecandle wax...??) Secondly, the greenish-goo (technical term) anti A/B amendment was concentrated in the center, and was QUITE hard, and difficult to separate into individual fibers again. Well, I finally recoverd my position (somewhat) thru microwave drying, and returning to the PP/SS technique, but for those who have good experience with the 120's and Tyvek?? I could use a lesson ======================= As suspected, dry methanol also separates the "snot" component. (hee, hee) As Uncle Ho Monga said last year, "There be two types of brake cleaner, flammable and non flammable." Now Ware(TF)AmI has maSTEred type # 2 E gull Perchlorethylene techniques, a very useable technique to be sure. But if you get the FLAMMABLE type, there are several combo's available from different suppliers. Get one that has "methyl alcohol" as the# 1 ingredient. Other ingrediants might be MEK, acetone, isopropyl, hexane, yadda yadda whatever: All the other ingrediants won't keep the alcohol from picking up the pre-moleasses, and the snot does not seem (nor should it be) soluble in the NP constituents NOR the alkie... It will be a cold day in hell before I dick with the 120's again... %^&^&^&&^%#&^^%#* *_{Nice tip on the freezer tech. Mnkboy77}* dwarfer



wareami (Hive Addict) 06-10-02 14:46 No 319537	Grab `Em by the Ballz!	Bookmark Reply
	HEY...Wait UP...will ya? Bees can only fly so fast...ya`know!!!! I know that "A/Bsense makes the heart grow fonder", but I've come to FIND, through countless SEARCHES and visual panning of the vast expanse known as the Soul, that the above quoted statement is lacking a major element of conclusional scientific Evidence necessary to substantiate it's validity, wareas it suggests closure in the context DE-FIND. However, it's MISSING, which one can easily affirm that the statement is strictly, and solidarily, dependent on: Who and WATT(TF®) are MISSING Who and WATT(TF®)………?? And WARE(TF®)AMI???? HIGH BEE'S, DID YA MISS ME???? HEY!@!@!...I HERD That!!!!...and that HERTZ!!!! With that outta the way...I better GO and further DE-FIND myself! Scared UBEES with that one huh? You thought I fell off my ROCKer, didn't ya? Never happen! I bolted that baby to the flatbed of the Ole` BumperCar...Like Granny Clampett did! Although thare have been a few times when I'd wake UP in the middle of a daydreaming seesure, to find that I musta spaced off on departure and forgot to shackle myself in safely!!! My humblest apologies for my tardiness and lack of participation on this subject and leaving UBees hanging in mid-air. For those bees that have exhibited an undying fortitude and discipline in this "Quest for the CrystalBallz", you have my appreciation and respect, beyond what words limited expression could convey! Since returning, and getting somewhat caught back UP on the board, the amount of similarities in results and descriptions are remarkable! There are most definately NewKidz on the "ChoppingBlock" and are Pooping on the BlockParty!!! I know I had hinted at keeping the Hive UPdated as events progressed and unfolded, but due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to chaparone Da`BrakeDown Kidz on thare little nature hikes while Ibee attended to udder stuff in this remote neck of the woods, namely, the business end of the COWS (Crystal-Orbz With Sidekicks) At the time that Ibee & Da`Kidz were invited to tag along on this back woods wilderness adventure, for a week of roughing it(many hours from a means of transmitting chemical communication signals to fellow bees at the HoneyComb), They had several disections underway in the Tri-X-Amining room at Ware(TF®)ami's Lost&Found HideAway! So many in fact, that Miss Inginaction was brought in as a consultant to help with the assessment and documentation of events as they unfolded. Thanx to her tour of duty and experience with POW's, she was able to employ some of the strategies she learned in disarming tripWIRES and Boobytraps that turned the BrakeDown Kidz on to some HareRaising Shyte that they only heard tell of by thare GRADEschool buddies, The WingNutz! As you all probably know...This Crüê of GO-Ghettors has a twisted philosophy when approaching the intersection of ProblemBULLYVARD and SolutionsHIGHWAY! Sure they want to ghet to PinWheelDRIVE like everybody else...but the best route is not always the Straightest route and simply announcing "WE'VE ARRIVED!" They believe in mapping out and enjoying the scenery off the beaten path...much like "It's not so much the joy of reaching the Destination as it is enjoying the Journey!!! Now since this method is one of many and this thread(a most excellent one i might add!!!!!) deals mainly with "Dunking yer Teabags", I feel it would be inappropriate to expound on it with variations not directly associated with "STEEP-INClines"...But in keeping with it's spirit and since this one is already rather lengthy...a new thread will PopUP entitled "Questing for the CrystalBallz"! It's not just a JOB, it's a sequel to this ongoing ADDventure! I just wanted all the contributors to this thread to know that Ibeeware hasn't forgotten about them by dropping off unexpectly as an advocate, colLABorator, and contributor to arriving at the SOLUTION....Your contributions to this thread have been pioneering SIGN-posts that demand applaud! My hat comes off!!!!! And Dwarfer and HoneySmoker: Ibee and The Kidz haven't completely abandoned incorparating the Steeping methods as of yet...but they have found that the inhibitors are coming over and do need to be removed...namely, the Molecular Dairy Pharms 2% AM(Anudder Mudder!)Milk delivery's! Now Grab Yer Ballz and repeat after me..."Yippie-Yeye-Ohhhh...Ghett Along Little Doughgeez!" Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt ô¿ôWareami



geezmeister (Hive Addict) 06-10-02 15:07 No 319545	cold day in hell	Bookmark Reply
	Ahhhh. Back in February SWIG was where Dwarfer is today with the 120's. They had long been his staple. For a "reality check" this weekend, SWIG bought some high dollar maximum-yielding-pseudo-60's-with-nothing-nasty-in-them pills. For an outrageous price. He wanted to make sure he refreshed his memory aboutcleanpseudo and how its looks, tastes, feels, smells, burns. Yep. He remembers. As to the 120's, SWIG agrees that one should avoid the big name brand pearls unless the reason for the purchase has to do with a runny nose. Not only do they cost more, they have more gakk trash in them than a landfill after Christmas. SWIG gets only generic pearls. SWIG doesn't mix types of pills, or manufacturers, when extracting. One of them might have that shit that steals the yield, be in povidone or PEG200. Why spoil the whole batch? SWIG is encouraged by finding OTC dry ISO alky, and is also encouraged by V.L.'s mention of denatured that doesn't smell like every can of it SWIG ever bought. (He'd rather the spend the weekend after Thanksgiving tied to a fence post at the sewer plant than use the smelly stuff.) And SWIG got a handle on PEG for the first time. If that were all that he learned from this experience, he's happy. He hasn't seen the pink shit yet, and he's had some success with Pearls...SWIG thinks that tyvek is a great bonus in screening out a lot of stuff you don't want. It may not be the holy grail of the one-step-clean Dwarfer quests for...but it does have its advantanges. SWIG has some variation he wants to try with it. He doesn't think this thread is through just yet. An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 06-17-02 15:49 No 322537	Pride Goeth Before a Fall	Bookmark Reply
	Like Ware(TF)amI, I'ze been oudatown: though not playing wit' udders like the Kidz. ============= Yeah, Geeez, I get all horned up and think I can handle 'bout anything: shit, mix and match: no problemo. After all my talking about how the ball had to be tight, this last failure was when I decided to leave it soft, so I could "mush" it around.. I don't know if that was the problem: but it will be a long while before I have the spare time to dick around re-doing the failure just to see.... fugaduk.. dwarfer



cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-15-02 00:04 No 345611	tyvek, hmmmm	Bookmark Reply
	this may be a match made in hell, but swim was wondering if some of this left over tyvek could be used as a cell divider for electro, or should swim just plan on a clay pot?



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 08-15-02 18:47 No 345861	Probly da pot is better	Bookmark Reply
	There is a hugemongeous scale difference between your basic amino alcohol molecule,and the size of the anions and cations in the solution. They are both "semi permeable" for the appropriate sized particle, and the holes in the tyvek are probably too big. Besides, the pot can be used as a structural part of the cell. if you are unfamiliar with it, 9and wanna be..) drop me a note in my mailbox. dwarfer



cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-15-02 19:33 No 345873	tyveks big holes	Bookmark Reply
	Swim suspected this was the case, but with sheep skin and tyvek both having been used to extract psuedo, and sheep being a reputed cell divider,(although swim was never successful with either sheepskin use), swim wasn't completely clear on the point. what ever happened to that Pd ingot anyways??



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 08-15-02 20:50 No 345885	Sausage Skins - Sheep or Pig Intestine?	Bookmark Reply
	I recall once someone was going to do some testing with the sausage skins used by butchers. I think they said they had good luck with them for the cell dividers. I asked at a local butchers shop about them and they said they didn't usually sell them to the public but that they'd sell a bagfull to me for $5.00. Seemed maybe pricey but what the hey. Palladium seemed to be going into the outer orbits pricewise for awhile. But I think it peaked out between $1100.00 and $1200.00 an oz. about a year and a half ago. I had heard the Russians (who I think conntrol most of the worlds Pd production) had, for some reason (profit maybe?) been artificially inflating the market value but that they couln't keep doing it forever. Last few times I checked it it was hovering steady in the mid $300.00'ds. Good time to make that precious metals investment if you ask me. she showed me her immense menagerie of damaged sex toys, all of which she'd burned out from overuse



cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-15-02 21:18 No 345892	intestines	Bookmark Reply
	absolute, claimed to have used sausage case, for the legendary "Silver Dream Racing" Electro. Swim has tried electro according to absolute's instruction, with no success ( and doubts it even works at all). Of course swim used a sheep condom, not a sausage case. Hmmm, hope that wasn't the problem. Now we're way off the subject



dwarfer (Hive Addict) 08-16-02 19:42 No 346118	intestines by any other name	Bookmark Reply
	Sausage casing, condom... They should all work. It's been a while since I started this thread, so I'm not sure if I'm repeating myself... But if you have not done it, it demonstrates the dynamics if you put a little GUP or salt into a condom, loosely,: tie a knot in the top, and fling it in water. In a few hours or a couple of days, the condom will be stretched to the max.. Pressure inside the condom will be higher than outside, sometimes by a considerable margin. The condom will eventually stretch, and become less useful: the pores become larger... Tyvek stretches little, if any: but is less selective. put a condom INSIDE a tyvek pouch, and you have the best of both worlds. strength and selectivity.. dwarfer



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 08-17-02 00:16 No 346170	Intestine in Tyvek	Bookmark Reply
	hey DwahPhaw (NYC district pronounciation), have you tried the sausage in the tyvek trick? Swim's had good reactable results from both the pearly 120's and uncrushed deredded redhots with a triple tyvec wrap in heated iso. Only time he got a lot of garbage was when he tried sqeezing and wringing out the ball after the hot soak. A small, but as yet untroublesome, amount of "white crap" is coming through on the straight, unwrung soakers. Maybe the sausage skin would catch this tidbit of white crap. Also, I couldn't help but think of you during the rescue of that group of miners in PA that happened recently. Didn't you spend some years working down in the shaft yourself and even once nearly get killed there? Nearly sliced in half was'nt it? she showed me her immense menagerie of damaged sex toys, all of which she'd burned out from overuse



cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-17-02 02:29 No 346186	sheep/vek	Bookmark Reply
	Strange, you should bring that up. After swim read dwarfers post earlier, swim tied up 20 department store 120's in a sheep skin, swim has had forever, and wrapped the hole thing real tight in a 8"x8" square of tyvek house wrap, just to see what might happen. Hadn't put it on to soak yet, but warm dry iso sounds like a good choice. Does anyone think gently agitating the soaking onion would change things for the better any?



ChemoSabe (Hive Bee) 08-17-02 02:48 No 346189	Heat should function as agitator	Bookmark Reply
	Swim's guess would be that heat alone should do the agitation for you. Swim's experience with getting unwanted gakks when squeeaing a GUP "onion" has him thnking that the less physical prodding the thing gets the better. Heat increases the rate of circulation and contact with the desired psuedo. Most likely just as efficiently as if you also agitated it too but without the risk of banging unwanted gakks out it. Or so swim guesses. she showed me her immense menagerie of damaged sex toys, all of which she'd burned out from overuse



BenWiFFen (Line Monitor) 08-17-02 14:27 No 346286	Apologize if..	Bookmark Reply
	Okeydokey I apologize if a bee has mentioned. I just got home from a jetsking few days. At the momement don't have the time to read the thread. The red iso works good as is but it's a tad mors cost efficient to use the 99% iso found at feed/horse suppley places. And deffinetly use heat wile melting your gear then run it through a filter. Now im not going to give this some kind catchy name in hopes of geting famous no nams calling just the facks mammy. Seen alot of this ,I know you guys know what I mean. The BLUE paper towels at the gas (survice) stations are the shit hands down. Open the box and grab a big chunk you'll have to see for yourself there taylor made for us The people I know like rocks over flakes and it's easy as PIE to do. No time to post it bit I will If anyone wants to know. Not enough time to hive around lately I'll post some flicks as soon as I learn how. Why. Sign here____________________

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