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	Posts 1 - 40 of 40	Subject: pseudoephedrine extraction fucked up?

	anOrangeDrip (Stranger) 08-08-02 01:09 No 342918		pseudoephedrine extraction fucked up?	Bookmark Reply
			swim followed step-by-step the full turps cure (except for recrystalizing) and ended up with a big red mess. is there any pseudoephedrine in the red coating? or did he completely fuck up? he thinks next time he does it he's gonna get the red off (unless red has p-eph). here's what the (sticky) mess looks like: When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	raffike (Hive Bee) 08-08-02 01:23 No 342924		WHOAH,Blood sugar suckerfish in my dish.	Bookmark Reply
			WHOAH,Blood sugar suckerfish in my dish.Try to wash with something(xyl,ace,turps for example) or if that doesn't help then only answer is a/B. A friend with speed is a friend indeed
	catfish (Hive Bee) 08-08-02 01:47 No 342928		before your turps...	Bookmark Reply
			1)Before your turps, throw all your red-hots (not pills, that's prolly illegal) into a flask or orange-juice carafe and cover about halfway w/ tone and swirl for three to five minutes. Swirl gently, as friction between the red hots will cause them to break up if overagitated. 2)Tone should bee red, so toss it out. Relax, sudo is practically insoluble in tone at this stage of the game(it is a game, isn't it?). 3)Repeat step 1) and 2) until the red hots aren't so red. For those that are unable to acquire tone, ice may be used to abrade the red off in much the same manner (ie swirling and decanting). The melting ice _will_ dissolve some product if a bee is careless! And always use dH2O. 0.89 USD for eight pounds at mickey dees (oops, is that a source). ...who wants honey, as long as there's some money...
	raffike (Hive Bee) 08-08-02 01:59 No 342932		For those that are unable to acquire tone Those ...	Bookmark Reply
			For those that are unable to acquire tone Those shouldn't be even thinking about dreaming,actually.But sometimes tone doesn't get the red off(some Su**fed brands for example)and then the ice is the only option. A friend with speed is a friend indeed
	anOrangeDrip (Stranger) 08-08-02 02:25 No 342938		how much of the red should be removed with ice?	Bookmark Reply
			is it better to aim for taking all of the red off, possibly suffering loss of product? or to only get the majority off, leaving maybe a small red or pink coating, resulting in impurities? When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	catfish (Hive Bee) 08-08-02 02:42 No 342942		don't have the box...	Bookmark Reply
			Don't have the box in front of me, but SWIC thinks that the red dye is either red #40 or red #3, both of which, in SWIC's experience, carry thru to the end product. If you don't mind pink gogo, then no prob. Yeah, if a bee can't even get tone, then the bee is just a wannabee and should just stay custie. Although there are a lot of sneaky ways to get tone, SWIC just goes to the hardware store. ...who wants honey, as long as there's some money...
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-08-02 05:55 No 342975		An A/B is in order now	Bookmark Reply
			Yep, if you didn't get the red out before hand, you need to do an A/B to get it out now. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-08-02 08:01 No 343008		OK he's gonna do an A/B extraction	Bookmark Reply
			He said he's gonna try to do an A/B extraction. He asked me to ask the board if reacidifying the pseudo has any benefit, since it'll be used in a reaction anyway. Is it necessary to use pseudo HCl in reactions (so it'll be soluble in water) or will freebase work for some reactions? He figures reacidifying the pseudo might be just another step to possibly fuck up at (since he isn't gassing yet). When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	zibarium (Naked) 08-08-02 08:26 No 343017		how can the red possibly remain in finished	Bookmark Reply
			product? you could probably go with what you have, in spite of the red color. it won't help a rxn, for sure...but may not wreck it either. (or a/b it out first, being as it wasn't done at the beginning) but it will leave during final work-up. i don't understand how anybee is coming up with a red finished product.
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-08-02 08:53 No 343029		well he could have done a better job	Bookmark Reply
			He didn't follow the full turps cure exactly step-by-step... He didn't have enough dry tone to get the red out at the beginning so he just continued with the other steps hoping those would get it out. Next time he'll be more careful to follow this step. Also, he didn't rinse the reds with crushed ice like he used to, just to see what he'd end up with. It's worth noting that doing this works really well and could drastically reduce the amount of acetone required. When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-08-02 09:28 No 343041		about the HCl form	Bookmark Reply
			No, it does not have to be the HCl form to react, but if you are new to this, you should probably use the HCl form at first as the freebase form can fire off too hard and fast and burn up. At least in RP/I2 reactions. Not so touchy in hypo reactions. Cannot advise as to birch reactions. Those were the real name-brand red hots, and I suggest you clean them before the reaction, particularly if your rp is not lg. And not taking the time to recrystalize is one of those hurry-up deals that wastes. Patience pays.  Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-08-02 12:32 No 343107		Should have...	Bookmark Reply
			Those were the real name-brand red hots, and I suggest you clean them before the reaction, particularly if your rp is not lg. And not taking the time to recrystalize is one of those hurry-up deals that wastes. Patience pays. He didn't want to recrystallize because he thought the stuff was so red and messy that it wouldn't really work anyway. Prolly worth a shot even if it's sticky-nasty like that eh? Also, when doing A/B extraction, will mineral spirits work well enough for the NP solvent? Couldn't find tolulene or xylene. When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-08-02 12:53 No 343115		yes	Bookmark Reply
			Yes, as will warm/hot camp fuel or natpha, which actually might be preferred with the red stuff still there. It is not an active solvent, is acceptable when warm, and its poor solvency may contribute to dissolving only that which you seek. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	zibarium (Naked) 08-08-02 14:17 No 343166		you don't need 'tone to de-red	Bookmark Reply
			if its water soluble coloring. and sure as hell don't need dry acetone for that. try this: lick one of the pills, until the red is gone. at what point does it get bitter? if it happens before the red is gone, there's probably precursor there. if it doesn't, you could feel safe in washing the pills in ice, as long as they don't start dissappearing on you.
	foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 08-08-02 14:41 No 343176		did you	Bookmark Reply
			acetone crash from the alcohol extract? Doind this is almost as good as recrystallization. Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-08-02 15:38 No 343207		re: did you	Bookmark Reply
			acetone crash from the alcohol extract? not clear on what you mean, but acetone wasn't put in the alcohol after it was extracted (or after it evaporated). Supplies of dry acetone were extinguished and he didn't feel like drying more that night. When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-08-02 17:26 No 343255		acetone crashing	Bookmark Reply
			geezmeister: "Re: Acetone Crashing" (Stimulants)
	GK7 (Stranger) 08-08-02 18:09 No 343284		Eh bro, did you by any chance do this.... 1.	Bookmark Reply
			Eh bro, did you by any chance do this.... 1. Crush Your Reds. 2. Put Reds in DH2O. 3. Removed water layer. 4. Evap the remaining sustrate. Im not trying to insult you, or test your knowledge my friend, its just that your pill mass looks a little chunky as if it was made of gelatin and binder. hmmm...
	zibarium (Naked) 08-08-02 19:08 No 343314		?	Bookmark Reply
			huh?
	SaintCyril (Hive Bee) 08-08-02 19:12 No 343316		Water	Bookmark Reply
			Umm why even put the water in?  Add water, then evaporate.  Thats not a method at all. Cy We are the people that your parents warned you about.
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-08-02 19:23 No 343323		no no, nothing like that	Bookmark Reply
			1. crushed 2. soaked in mineral spirits for 12 hours, decanted 3. soaked in dry acetone, decanted 4. allowed to dry 5. boiled in dry IPA, soaked for ~30 mins, filtered with 3 coffee filters and cotton ball 6. repeated step 5 with remaining pill mass 2 more times 7. transferred red IPA to evaporating dish, gently heated one thing that might be a problem is the use of odorless mineral spirits as the nonpolar solvent. Was curious if odorless mineral spirits work the same as mineral spirits. Noticed the other day that they sell both types at the store (didn't notice before) When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	douglasws (Stranger) 08-08-02 20:19 No 343344		no red, no sugar	Bookmark Reply
			in all actuallity you should be willing to loose some of the product in order to discard all of the red. Yes ice or tone, swirling gently discarding liquid accordingly until there is no red or veeeerrrry little. odds are the red coating is of a sugar nature which we do not want, you know how those diabetics are about there goodies and you dont want any sugar present during the transformation. And of course coffe grind, soak in heet (methanol) for 20 minutes to 24 hours, pour off liquid being careful not to get any crud boil off gently once, twice if your a neet freak then wash with tone. If I were you I would discard red crap and start over with the suggestions in here or use white tabs if available unless of course your close to canada. thank you and enjoy yourself, for it is all science and we all enjoy science. peace be with you for 4 days at least
	knowshisgunn (Stranger) 08-08-02 22:46 No 343390		I have run the redhots just 'as they are' with no ...	Bookmark Reply
			[b][i][blue]I have run the redhots just 'as they are' with no color following through to the finished product.  The color stayed with the mud. Tahosa
	RepVip (Newbee) 08-09-02 00:13 No 343406		I disagree	Bookmark Reply
			Don't discard the crap.... er stuff. Just do an A/B.  It's good practice and will likely save some of your goods. knowshisgunn: Did you end up with product?
	knowshisgunn (Stranger) 08-09-02 03:43 No 343428		Many times...	Bookmark Reply
			yes, product everytime. In fact very rarely do I wash the red out. Tahosa
	RepVip (Newbee) 08-09-02 04:04 No 343434		GUP Chuck?	Bookmark Reply
			So you simply GUP chuck without removing the red... or anything else?  And it works ok? We're talking about an i/rp rxn and not birch, right?
	knowshisgunn (Stranger) 08-09-02 04:18 No 343443		Nazi Rx	Bookmark Reply
			I am using a method similar to Birch Reduction, yes.  I hope I haven't been wasting your time here by my buttin' in. Tahosa
	RepVip (Newbee) 08-09-02 04:29 No 343446		ASSume	Bookmark Reply
			Wasting my time?  Are you kidding!  I'm the ass here! And on that note, anOrangeDrip, check out dwarfers excellent post dwarfer: "Best Red Remover in the Known Universe" (Stimulants) Best of luck to ya!
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-09-02 04:33 No 343448		Worlds Best Red Remover	Bookmark Reply
			TFSE must bee broken, cause I know all of you looked this one up and seemed to have missed it. Worlds Best Red Remover: 01) Place red hots in a clean dry beaker or glass. 02) Cover with just enough acetone to submerge them all. 03) While Swirling add DH2O a few drops at a time. 04) Swirl for a minute more. 05) Still too red? Add a few drops more. Swirl 06) Repeat until pills are light pink. 07) Immediately drain in a small strainer 08) Rinse with some fresh acetone. 09) Sandwich pills between a few sheets of paper towels 10) Pat dry Minimal psuedo loss. No pill degradation. Edges stay sharp. Doesn't waste acetone. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-09-02 12:23 No 343552		a/b extraction successful	Bookmark Reply
			swim seems to have successfully extracted pseudo via a/b extraction. Just a few problems... he doesn't want to use the pseudo he extracted because he's not sure what he has. When he placed lye in the water, some white stuff definitely precipitated out. When he added NP solvent (mineral spirits), it didn't look like it absorbed the white foam: there was a clear NP layer, layer of white foam, and a layer of brownish water all stacked neatly atop each other. But on the bright side, when the NP layer was removed and acidifed, saw white stuff precipitate out. Should that white foam be of any concern? Also, he doesn't want to use the pseudo because it turned greyish-brown after leaving it on the hotplate too long. When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-09-02 13:24 No 343571		rinse the pseudo	Bookmark Reply
			Rinse the pseudo with acetone, dissolve in IPA, filter, let it evaporate with a fan and no heat. What you have left will be fine. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	RepVip (Newbee) 08-09-02 13:46 No 343588		what gm said	Bookmark Reply
			When he placed lye in the water, some white stuff definitely precipitated out. When he added NP solvent (mineral spirits), it didn't look like it absorbed the white foam: there was a clear NP layer, layer of white foam, and a layer of brownish water all stacked neatly atop each other. When basifying during an a/b: Do a NP wash first.  Second, add NP before youe basify. When you basify, don't worry about stuff precipitating out.. you don't want it.  Should that white foam be of any concern? Also, don't shake the solution of lye water/NP.. simply swirl it a bit.  This will keep the emulsion layer(your white foam) to a minimum. It is of concern because it may trap some of your pseudo on its way to the NP. Kerpluncking. As to exactly why your water layer was brown.. I'm not sure?  Maybe overbasifying it burnt some stuff up?  It is always good to add the NP first to avoid excess stress on your pseudo, giving it a place to go. But on the bright side, when the NP layer was removed and acidifed, saw white stuff precipitate out When acidifying the NP:  Stuff precipitating out is not good. Remember, the freebase pseudo is soluble in the NP.  When you acidify it you get pseudo HCl, which is soluble in water.  You shouldn't see it at all.  Ummm... but if stuff did ppt. out, you probably should separate the water layer, filter it, and then let it evap.  Follow this up with a good ol' acetone wash!
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-09-02 13:52 No 343592		well there was n0 water in the NP	Bookmark Reply
			when he acidified it, he just wanted to see majical chemistry do its work and see the white stuff but when he added water to the NP, the white stuff quickly dissolved Geezmeister: so if he washes the grey-brown gunk it should save it? possibly over-acidified instead of burnt? hotplate was on low heat (1 out of 6 max) When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	RepVip (Newbee) 08-09-02 13:58 No 343594		Gas?	Bookmark Reply
			I'm sorry I was assuming again.  If you did gas your NP then yeah the pseudo should precipitate out!  But.... if you gassed, why would you then add h2o to the NP?  RV is a bit tired and thinks he might not be understanding everything.. so he's gonna go... but good luck!
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-09-02 14:19 No 343605		well	Bookmark Reply
			sounds like you gassed, then redissolved the salt in water. You have the salt form of your pseudo, and some trash that is there that you did not wash out. It sounded to me that you burned your pseudo a little. By all means, heat some dry IPA up, dissolve the whole mess, filter through a Charmin plug, and evaporate. If you evaporate over low heat, you can acetone flash and filter the acetone off. That will probably do as good a job of cleaning as you are going to get on this. Next time you gas, filter the stuff out of the non-polar and let it evaporate on the filter. No water. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-09-02 15:31 No 343629		no, no gas	Bookmark Reply
			swim doesn't gas yet he's too much of a larva still. He added several drops of muriatic acid (just poured some in from the bottle because his dropper was dirty). I told him he fucked up doing that. Another possibly stupid thing he did was decant off the NP layer using a plastic turkey baster (and now the turkey baster looks translucent instead of clear) did the NP dissolve some of the turkey baster? And just a sidenote because this has confused swim for a little bit... if your product is dissolved in water and you filter it out, any water remaining in the filter could have product in it right? and since the filter absorbs the water, does it also absorb product? Meaning, if you have a damp filter and dry it out, will the product stay absorbed in the filter? is it possible for solids to be absorbed in the filter? hope you understand what i'm asking When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	zibarium (Naked) 08-09-02 18:55 No 343746		send some extra water thru the filter	Bookmark Reply
			whatever was hung in there should come thru. or pre-wet your filter..
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-09-02 19:01 No 343748		Dear big orange:	Bookmark Reply
			You are getting harder to follow. Use some water with the acid. If you added a few drops, and had more than a little pseudo, you probably still have pseudo in your non-polar solvent. Add water and more acid and swirl and let it stand. Then separate out the water/acid, and evaporate it. Out in the open, and not around any metal you want to stay clean and non-rusty. I am beginning to think it might be wise to chalk this one up as a learning experince, throw all of it away, and now that you have tried it once, carefully reread the posts you followed and start again. I am not being sarcastic, or facetious. I am being very serious. You have been through a long learning experience. You should have learned a great deal about what you did, and about what you did not understand in what you read. Now try it again in light of what you have learned. It should be a lot simpler the second time. And by all means--reread the sticky on the a/b method. Particularly for the time being, assume that what is posted--particular in the stickies-- has been tested and is very difficult to improve on. Accept that sometimes the best way has been figured out. For now, please be content to follow these instructions ---in one classic expression--- just as they are written, from 'go' to 'whoah.' Best advice anyone can give you right now. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	anOrangeDrip (Newbee) 08-09-02 19:52 No 343773		It was nothing but a learning experience	Bookmark Reply
			It was just a learning experience, thought he'd learn a little about a/b in case the need for it should come up. He was gonna throw the pseudo away after it was all done anyway. Just wanted to thank everyone for their help When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet.
	wareami (Hive Addict) 08-09-02 20:24 No 343790		What???No Inactives?	Bookmark Reply
			As priorities have shifted to a degree...Ibee has not been able to get on the computer as much and he's trying to catch up some. The first thing he did when he arrived at this thread after reading the replys was to do a search on the entire thread to see if anybee had mentioned the word inactive. "Finished Searching Document...No results Found" Beeeeeeeeeeeees: Water will fuck up a wet dream! This is not meant to be looked upon as being condescending or patronizing in any way! Before we can offer stable and reliable advice, we MUST know what is in the formulation! Suggesting a straight up A/B here is wrong until we find that the Dry-Matrix is not present! Geez's waterless should be suggested as a first step at recovery by the looks of the pics posted! Obviously the red was not removed and suggesting the use of Acetone/Dh20 as a red remover will also activate the drymatrix if the dh20 penetrates the inner coating under the red outer coating! The dull red coating is an ABSOLUTELY no water pill when the drymatrix is present because they re-engineered the outer coating using different techniques to allow the h20 to penetrate! The Shiny red coating Pills can bee worked up with the acetone/dh20 method successfully beeing careful not to activate the drymatrix ingredients when removing the red! Maybee Ibee is missing something here...but he keeps seeing old methods being posted as remedies for situations ware bees are reporting problems and they will not work on most of the OTC's today! Just checkin??? Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt ô¿ôWareami

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