Passing the polygraph

[simonmagus]

Does anyone have any good reading on passing the polygraph or even the new polygraph where they hook it up to your brain (head) and test your brain waves... Thanks, Simon

[Machiavelli]

Try http://www.antipolygraph.org/
In their own words:
"IN 8 WEEKS, JOE SIXPACK CAN LEARN
HOW TO GIVE YOU A POLYGRAPH "TEST". . .
IN THE NEXT HOUR, YOU CAN LEARN
HOW TO BEAT IT. "

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Give someone a match and he'll feel warm for a few seconds, set him on fire and he'll feel warm for the rest of his life

[PYRO500]

Although you can beat a polygraph pretty easily the operator will suspect countermeasures if you do the timed breathing and relaxation techniques, then you will be subject to suspicion, or more tests, and not all polygraphs can be beat the same, VSA us very hard to beat so I hear.

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visit my web page at:
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/pyro2000us/]

[simonmagus]

Thanks for the input that was pretty good but more text is always good. I'm glad to be back on this board cause everyone is so helpful here... Thanks, Simon

[CodeMason]

Polygraphs are easy to beat. They are self-fufulling - it only works because people get nervous because they THINK it will work. If you KNOW it won't work because of just this fact, it won't work. Not for the faint of heart. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Why use relaxation techniques when valium is as easy to get as candy?

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Live free or die! | http://codemason.cjb.net

[PYRO500]

If you use valium they will know, they monitor several of your bodily activities such as pulse rate, breathing rate, finger movenent, sweat output and sometimes blood pressure, I have herd of people using the polygraph that can detect anomoly's in the reading, the way around the polygraph is not to just stay calm during a lie but to believe the lie yourself, and of course the truth should come easily from the subject so the readings should stay steady or at a steady rate, when the operator asks questions he will make marks when he asks the question, and when he waits for you to return to your normal interrogation state (nervus or not) depending on how your chart differs from this durring the questioning/answering he can tell if you lied, with breathing and other techniques you can make the polygraph show uniform responses throughout the questioning, but a good polygraph reader will notice timed breathing and other things then he will suspect "countermeasures" and may find out if you are trying to decieve them by being as calm as possible, in short, you can fool a crappily trained polygraph examiner or a better one if your a good liar, by a good liar I mean you can detach yourself to tell a lie and actually believe the answer, if you can do this you could possibly fool a polygraph, any thoughts of an alternate answer will lead to being detected as a lie, this is why psycopaths can pass polygraph's when they obviously are lying. I would recomend that you don't take a test unless it's for a job, if that then think and believe all the things you want to lie about, if you try to do this with a lot of thigs it can get difficult and may come to a point where you can only look someone in the eyes if your lying ( I for one would know).

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visit my web page at:
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/pyro2000us/]

[nbk2000]

Unfortunately, technology marches on....

The latest version (still in the lab) uses a SQUID ( Super-cooled QUantum Interference Detector) to detect changes in the brain.

These changes are caused, involuntarily, when pictures are flashed in front of you on a screen at a rapid rate.

This prevents any concious thinking, permitting only simple recognition.

The idea is that, by flashing pictures of people, places, or things that only the guilty person would recognize, by detecting the brains "I recognize that" signal, you can determine if the person you're talking to is involved in what you're investigating.

The more pictures the person recognizes, the more relevant the results.

A excellent, fictional, book about a 100% accurate lie detector and the social impact of it is "The Truth Machine" by James L. Halperin.

It may not be fiction much longer. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif

And with the legal concept of "Innocent till proven guilty" turning into "Guilty till you prove your innocence", it won't be long before keeping your mouth (and eyes) shut equals automatic conviction anyways, just like refusing a sobriety test "means" you're drunk driving.

However, this technology, like all technology, can be used by the forces of evil as well. http://assaultweb.net/ubb/icons/icon18.gif

Imagine scanning crime partners to see if they're working with the cops, or customers are undercover cops. Is the dope as good as the dealer say? Did your delivery man really get robbed, or is he keeping the stuff himself?

I see all kinds of applications for criminal use if it ever becomes a practical device.

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[CodeMason]

There must be a way around that nbk2000. I'm thinking drugs again. One way would be to take a narcotic that would lower your reaction time considerably enough so that by the time the picture has been and gone, the brain would not have enough time to register it. Dissociatives (PCP, ketamine, etc.) would have a similar, but much better effect, the brain being too detatched from reality to recognize the pictures. Drugs that temporarily obscure your long-term memory would be a (albeit very dangerous) sure fire way to do it. There must be one that specifically stops the signal from being produced or monitored (Holy Grail anti-Pig drug). But be warned, if they decide to drug test you as well, you're fucked.

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Live free or die! | http://codemason.cjb.net

[bangandow]

there are several dissociatives that are very rarely (if ever) tested for such as dxm and myristica fragrans... i mean what cops gonna expect that you down a couple bottles of cough syrup before a polygraph test? hehehe

[PYRO500]

I don't think it's such a good idea to go to a place filled with cops hammered.

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visit my web page at:
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/pyro2000us/]

[CodeMason]

PYRO: If it comes down to appearing to be stoned to some cops with at least some hope you may walk away innocent, or being proven guilty without a doubt, you know which I'll choose.

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Live free or die! | http://codemason.cjb.net

[BoB-]

When stoned, you might subconciously not respond to the control questions, the person giving the test could say;

"I'm going to ask you a very personal question"

He then takes the reading, a normal sane person will make the needles jump in anticipation of the potentially embaressing question, if no rise is recorded, they might test you for drugs, or consider you mentally incompetent.

its possible to obscure all the readings, pressing your toe onto a tack in your shoe would cause a jump, if you answer the questions truthfully, but there is still a "lie" reading then your lawyer could convince the judge the test is worthless.

For instance;

"Is your name [your real name]?"

If you manage to give a lie reaction as you answer "yes" then the test could be considered crap.


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Teamwork is essential.
It lets you blame someone else.

[PYRO500]

I don't know where you live but as far as I know Polygraph tests are inadmissible as court evidence in the US, the only cases I beleve that use the polygraph are when a witnesses testimony is being challenged.
I think they can let you submit your own tests now but as of now as faras I know no one can force you to take a polygraph test.

I for one would not recomend taking the polygraph test because it wil look bad in the eyes of the jury beacuse everyone knows they are unreliable, and if you fail it you have evidence against you.
Whenever possible in a non jury trial plead the 5th on as many things as you can that can't help your case, this prevents them from getting evidence against you lets take this for example, a local back is robbed, the bills are all unmarked an there is no way to distinguish the bills from the ones stolen, you turn around being stupid with power and put the exact amount stolen into a bank next door 10 min later. and assuming no one saw you and you get called as a suspect and get tried they will ask you all sorts of questions here is a litle simulated dialog in a simulated court room :

Prosecution: Mr. xxx Do you know you just placed the exact amount stolen from a bank next door to your's into your account?

You:No, I didn't/I found out when I was called as a suspect

Prosecution:Mr.xxx where did you get the money you deposited yesterday?

You: I plead the 5th

Prosecution:do you know if any of the money you deposited yesterday was stolen?

You: I plead the 5th

Prosecution: Didn't you steal the money from the bank!

Your lawyer: Objection leading!

Judge: sustained (assuming he dosen't overrule)

You: I plead the 5th

remember the 5th, as long as it's around use it! it will get you out of questions you don't want to answer. Remember, your own words are proof enough even if they don't have physical evidence.

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visit my web page at:
[URL=http://www.geocities.com/pyro2000us/]

[nbk2000]

Ummm....the "5th" doesn't work that way.

In order to take the 5th, you have to say NOTHING. If you take the stand, you can't plead the 5th.

Because if you give any testimony, the prosecution has the right to cross-examine it, and you can't plead the 5th to those questions.

Bad gangster movies give the wrong impression about the use of the 5th.

OJ took the 5th and let all his lawyers do the talking for him.

Smart nigger walked because of it.

Polygraphs are inadmissable in california. And really, what do you have to gain by taking your own? The prosecution will imply (rightly) that the results are rigged.

And if you take the cops PG, you'll likely fail that regardless. Even though it isn't admissable, you can be sure that the prosecution will mention how you fail it to the jury.

And the jury isn't a bunch of analytical thinkers, just bumbkins who'll pretty much believe anything the cops say.



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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[mrloud]

How would SQUID be used?

Law enforcement agencies would use it by flashing a picture of the murder victim, the murder weapon etc up on a screen and looking for signs of the brain recognising the images. This could be quite effective.

The other main user of the polygraph is employers. Employers and even schools have been known to make people take polygraph tests to prove that workers/sudents don't use drugs, steal the office stationery etc. In this case it seems a SQUID would be much less effective since everyone would recognise a bong, syringe, writing pad or box of biros.

[nbk2000]

This kind of technology isn't going to get to the private sector for many years.

The first people to get it will be the Feds and alphabet agencies (NSA, CIA, etc).

First uses would be counter-espionage/terrorist/intelligence. Also, high profile crimes and big buck (S&L type) frauds, drug cartels, money laundering, and similar BIG crimes.

Then the police will get it or access to it for homocide/sex crime investigations.

As it becomes more common and reliable, it'll eventually work its way to the private sector/big business. I could see Intel/Micro$oft/IBM/Fortune 500 companies using it for detecting employee theft of trade secrets and similar big buck crimes.

By the time it works its way to the schools, you'll be in a nursing home anyways, so who cares.

Going to the test while under the influence of PCP or Ketamine is silly. They won't have to convict you of murder if you've just handed them a drug possession charge which (in a lot of states) is a life sentence anyways.

Rather, use drugs just before you commit the crime that prevents the memories from forming in the first place.

Rohypnol (roofies) will block out memories of the previous 3 hours. So, immediately after snuffing someone, pop a couple of roofies and go to sleep.

You'll wake up not remembering anything from the crime scene.

This assumes that you can prevent the determination of the exact weapon, or recovery of same. Also, the crime scene should be somewhere you've never been before to prevent recognition from previous visits.

Obviously, you'll need a plausible reason for recognizing the victim.

If you don't know this "criminal" or "hitch-hiker", then how come you recognize him?

It's easier to account for if they're a co-worker, frequent customer, or member of the same health club.

SQUIDs detects fluctuations in magnetic fields at levels billions of times weaker than the earths magnetic field.

The electrical discharges in the brain creates minute magnetic pulses that are detected by the SQUIDS.

By placing SQUIDs in a pattern, the intensity and location of the field changes can be pinpointed to specific parts of the brain.

They're expensive and delicate sensors. And they won't be appearing in Radio-Shack anytime soon. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[simonmagus]

NBK where do you find all the information you come up with on this board... How correct or not it is I don't know but you come up with what seems to be really great stuff...

I'm not doubting the correctness of your post but where in the hell do you find all this stuff?????

Simon

by the way if anyone has books or any kind of reading on things like this or alarm systems, intel gathering, climbing equipment for building... any kinda odd ball shit like that I'd love to get my hands on it...

Thanks....

[CragHack]

That is a stupid question. Anyone criminal, potential criminal, or just run of the mill paranoid person worth there salt stays informed.

How many people have seen specials on SQUIDs and shit like that before?
i know i have seen a thing or two on the discovery channel about it.

That and MANY MANY other things people talk about can be found by simply reading the newspaper everyday. Watching a cool tv program on say A&E, Discovery, the history channel, TLC. shit like that. Keeping up with the times is easy man. but you have to stay informed to be informed you know what i mean? just like i said in my other post about the laws

"Read It, Become Informed"

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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[This message has been edited by CragHack (edited 12-09-2001).]

[simonmagus]

Yeah you pretty much pissed me off Hack. (You're a NEWBIE, thus have no right to be PISSED till you've been here a while, whereas CragHack has been here for a long time. NBK2000)

I have seen programs on SQUIDs but I'm pretty sure that questions wasn't directed to you in any way. (Anyone is free to comment on a posted question. NBK2000)

I was asking NBK where he gets most of his information. He could have a stock pile of reading or he could have some good links that I don't know about. (Yes, I do. And I'm not going to share them either. Find them yourself, like I did. NBK2000)

As far as it being a stupid question. Well, I'll kiss YOUR ass. It was something that I wanted to know and if you think me asking someone where that get info is stupid then that shows how dumb I am... I do searches all the time and I look for things before I post but if I would like to know where someone gets info I think that's a pretty ok question to ask without someone having to tell me I'm stupid.

If I can't come up with something helpful and post something intelligent then I just won't post. NBK seems to be very knowledgeable on many subjects and that is why I asked the question.

....I really piss people off when I come off with stupid shit like this...

"Become Informed, I Suck It!!!"

(Now are you going to play nicely with the others? Or do I have to get ugly? http://assaultweb.net/ubb/icons/icon18.gif

Believe me, you're getting off incredibly easy.

NBK2000)

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited 12-09-2001).]

[zaibatsu]

Don't flame simonmagus, you'll just get in trouble with the mods. Do you see how Craghack managed to say what he wanted to without it sounding like a flame?

[nbk2000]

A note for all NEWBIES!

You have the same rights as a steaming pile of dog shit.

1. You have the right to be stepped on.

2. You have the right to be ignored.

3. You have the right to be burned (flamed).

4. You have the right to be thrown away (banned).

Now that these rights have been explained, you now have the right to remain silent.

In regards to simonmagus, I did a search on you and, while you haven't exhibited much k3w|_ness, you also haven't really contributed anything either.

You also exhibit a tendency to being argumenitive and saying "I've searched but (insert question)?".

You are neither hot (kewl) nor cold (respected), but lukewarm...and you know what Jesus said about lukewarm......SPIT IT OUT!

So, until you start contributing ORIGINAL or useful info in existing topics, I suggest showing discretion in your future postings, lest you end up a victim of HED.

And CragHack is correct in that anyone who wishes to stay informed has to do so by watching and reading from various sources.

I'm a member of a half dozen other forums of various types, constantly searching the net anytime I see something new mentioned, reading everything I can (still have 14 milkcrates full of magazines I haven't read), footlocker full of clippings and photocopies, TV programs like TLC, discovery, etc, newsgroups, websites, newsletters, etc.

This is one of the reasons why the PDF is taking so long, because I'm taking more information in than I'm able to process out.

It takes a lot of effort to keep up with the rapid changes happening today, and I'm certainly not going to spoon feed it to anyone who asks.

Make the effort yourself, start reading, learn how to EFFECTIVELY search. Ask JEEVES is NOT a search! Boolean expressions are! Learn how to ask the right questions, seperate those who know from those who just talk a good game, be critical about all facts, and trust no one!

You don't need a bazillion different links either. I've got a couple dozen that I use all the time to find pretty much anything I'm interested in. They're respected, informative, knowledgable, and trustworthy. And most of them you've probably never heard of.

Remember, the herd that drinks from the big pond gets the muddy water and gators. The gazelle that drinks from the puddle gets the freshest water with no gators.

As a matter of fact simonmagus, translate the above proverb into what I mean as it regards information and I'll give you a few links.

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited 12-09-2001).]

[nbk2000]

Here's a New Scientist article about the brain scanning lie detector.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99991543

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"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[Noct]

I didn't read everyone's replies... but here is something simple to do when faced with one of the simpler polygraphs...

-- Flex the muscles in your face a lot when asked obvious questions (what day is it, how old are you, etc). This might show that you are lying, when it is obvious you are telling the truth.

--Breath irregularly when asked obvious questions

If you do these things when telling the truth, you might involuntarily do them when lying, which means there will be no jump in reading, or no way to tell the difference, when you are lying.

Then again, I think I learned this all off of the Discovery Channel, so for all I know it is just the government tricking me into knowing how to beat them. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif