"Robot Wars" as a model for mayhem

[CodeMason]

Anyone who's seen the UK show, "Robot Wars" will know what I'm talking about. For those of you who haven't, competitors simply build RC robots designed to cut, crush, flip, burn, etc., the other ones, and they are pitted against each other in an arena with all sorts of obstacles. Not a very original idea, I remember having the thought occur to me for something almost exactly the same when I was 6 or 7 years old, however, it's quite entertaining most of the time.

Now, the thought occured to me, that these robots would be the ultimate improvised weapons for attacks against small enemy strongholds. They would cost a pretty penny to build, because one would have to account for extra defence mechanisms and a wireless video camera to see what you're doing from behind the remote, but just think of the glorious destruction even a smaller one would cause in say, a Pig station! It would be truly awesome!

As for designs, for defence, maybe use bulletproof (polycarbonate?) shielding, and a high speed motor to zip around (although this is also an offence mechanism). For offence I'm thinking blades and razor wire adorning the surface, chain or circular saws, 75psi or more flame thrower (<a href="http://yarchive.net/explosives/flamethrower.html">here for design</a>) spitting out super napalm, pneumatic cannon (that might shoot say, mini-grenades or shotshells), adapted legal or illegal firearms (make sure they can't be traced!), the possibilities are endless. And your robot would be almost unstoppable (one way I can think of is if they bring in the military to grenade it or they dump a shitload of sand on top of it). And make sure you have a panic button for when your machine IS finally disabled, that sets off either a really hot burning incendiary, a powerful explosive charge, or both (re: FEA).

Thinking about this stuff makes me start drooling and wishing I had more funds in order to construct the ultimate improvised weapon and unleash it on the FUCKERS that banned GTA3 in Australia! (Uhm, just kidding, no threats!) What are everyone else's thoughts on this?

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Live free or die! | http://codemason.cjb.net

[Anthony]

Waaaaaaaay ahead of youhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif I've got the radio gear, camera and mic, audio/video transmitter and pocket TV (to attach to radio gear transmitter).

Just time and the fact that something's screwy with the video output signal on the camera is stopping me finishing it.

Idea for the robot: 4x 9.6v cordless drill motors + gearboxes running at 12v, run anyway up with either 4-6wheels or tracks if I can get some welding done. Weapons: modular system - shotgun/grenade launcher/flamethrower. Maybe even an EFP for underneath vehicles? Also a spotlamp with IR filter for "night vision".

Pics and videos when (if!) I finish ithttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[twinkle]

I don't want to discourage you in anyway but you only could use it one time as a weapon with the benefit of surprise. The next time you want to use it they will jam your radio control system (which is not so difficult ) so you need to make your radio control system jam (interference) proof which will be very difficult (and very expensive)
"robots" used in bomb disposal work are using a wired control system which don't have that problem .

[NoltaiR]

Also a most obvious down-side to this idea is that unless it had some serious weight/size, it wouldn't be able to use any sort of firearm/weapon that had any kind of recoil. Possibly eqipping this little 'robo-knight' with suction cups on the bottom may solve this problem as long as they were strong enough and easy to deploy.
Also these things would have to be built purely for offense possibly for sniper missions..(because it wouldn't take much more than a EMP shockwave to render any robot useless if the enemy was going to attack a location where the robots are at).

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A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
-Thomas Jefferson

[Anthony]

Why couldn't they use recoiling weapons? All they need is shock proofing, sure they might get knocked about a bit, just make the first shot count so you don't have to re-aim.
Bear in mind that the robot that fight on RobotWars/Battle Bots weigh 100kg - heavier and *much* more stable than an upright/crouching human. Robots this size would be difficult to transport into position (can't carry it). Although With a few spikes they're KE alone when rolling would be enough to take out people (some of these things shift to 30mph in just a few yards).

What kind of police force has EMP bombs?

It'd also be for fun and a safe platform to test new weapons on.

[A-BOMB]

Or a .50 bmg or a rpg for that matter. If they knew about these thinks they would have people out with long range rifle picking them off before they could get into its killing radius.

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live by the bomb
die by the bomb
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And come to my not so done SITE HERE (http://paintball-and-stuff.freesevers.com)

[Anthony]

Very true that they would be susceptible to snipers, but they wouldn't be used in the open. Inside buildings would be the best for them.

Then again, how long would it take for the cops to assess the situation, realise that they need snipers, request snipers and for them to arrive and get into position? Far too long to stop anyone dying.

Besides, how mnay snipers use a .50bmg? A pound to a penny says UK police snipers have never seen one let alone use one.

Would 3/4" - 1" steel plate see off most non-exotic sniper rounds? It'd up the weight a lot but is possible.

[kingspaz]

hhmmm....what about laminated titanium? expensive as fuck but light weight (so more weapons can be used and it will go faster) and also rustproof. also its very strong.
maybe about 15 1mm sheets all cut to the same shape and welded alon the edges so u have a thick sheet made of thinner sheets. then use a few of these 'slabs' welded together for the shell of the robot. this may be difficult as titanium is supposedly difficult to weld.

[EventHorizon]

Judgeing from as many rounds as I've fired at steel, 3/4"-1" would stop almost anything up to the large calibers. I've yet to see anything (up to 8mm) come even close to breeching 1" steel at 100yds. .30-06 AP will make it through 1/2" at 100yds, but I don't think it would breech 3/4".

IIRC, I read somewhere that the .50BMG will go through 1.5" of mild steel at 880yds. Anyone have the capabilities of the mighty 50 handy.

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"Chance favors a prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
"Happiness is a large pile of links." - Me
PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[mrloud]

Perhaps the robot would be better put to use as an asassination device. It could be camoflagued as a shrub or piece of rubbish. A black and white CCD camera will be able to see the infrared laser aiming device built into it and a silencer will prevent it from being heard. It could be deployed from a hatch in the bottom of the control van at night and be in position before daylight. If it were disguised as vegetation it would best be hidden near other shrubs and whatnot. Once the target has been taken out, it would just retreat into the shrubs completely un noticed in the chaos. Before the cops arrive, the operators would have pulled the robot back into the van and be out of town.

I suspect police stations are too secure for a robot to do much damage. You could kill/wound everyone in the reception area but getting the robot beyond that would be difficult. You'd best wait for some sort of police parade where you have hundreds of officers in the street. If you wanted a highly lethal but generalised attack, the top of the robot could be bristling with mortar tubes. A fuse is ignited and the tubes fire one by one as the robot races down a busy street or shopping centre. Each mortar launches a small metal tube of black powder which is in a slightly bigger carboard tube full of ball bearings.

Very easy yet very detructive.

[twinkle]

I agree with mrloud when you realy want to build such a robot you better could use it as a scout ,small , very fast ,lightweight and camouflaged (also for heat and electric shielded ) it as good as possible ,using a camera and audio equipment for instance an (moveable) aiming microphone .If you would like to arm it I would keep it simple , some flashbang - and teargas granates for creating confusion when it has been noticed the teargas and flashbang could be electronic ignited and the launched .
AS far as emp weapons used by the police what I have seen on TV (discovery)is that they had a small RC car launched from a police car it drove under another car this small RC car had a big high voltage (some 10.000 volt o so ) condensor which had an antenna on one of the poles
this antenna hits the chassis of the chased car and the high voltage kills the electronic parts of the car so the motor stops.

[DaRkDwArF]

better idea, if your being paid for the assasination make it a mobile claymore witha 30 - 360 degree field of destruction... not only will it destroy the evidence but it will do a hell of a lot more damage then a 12ga mounted to it (what if you miss, guard stomps it, it gets shot, etc...) just rig it with explosives and be done with it

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Do or Do Not, there is no Try

[BoB-]

A cross-breed of the 2 would be unstoppable, a 12gauge full auto grenade launcher blasts the robot a path where it can reach its target, then a massive frag-charge detonates.

I think gas driven motors would make a more powerful hunter-killer bot, an old motorcycle engine would give plenty of horsepower to carry the armored bot, the ignition switch would also be R/C controlled so the robot can still hide.

Hmmm, maybe even a telescoping muffler so the bot can cross shallow water?

The bot cold be covered in flaps of titanium and/or wrapped in kevlar to prevent a sniper taking it out.

hmm, twin mounted 12-gauge full auto grenade launchers with 100 round capacity, nitromethane fed engine, and lightweight kelvar armor.

It could blast its way into the building, then fire its main weapon at the target, a claymore like darkdwarf described.

Okay, now I'm getting ahead of myself.

In reality, the bots antenna would have to be really long unless it was built around a cellphone and modem, the CCTV signal could then be broadcast over the modem using a PC board to any PC in the world that dials the modems number.

On second thought they already have a system like this, webcams are getting cheaper, and cheaper, the lens could be waterproofed, then an IR, or nightvision monocle could be attached.

Would require a 'net connection though which could obviously be traced.

A while ago my little cousin wanted me to buy him this lego set, these werent any legos! It included a small computer board, which can be programmed to do specific movements at specific times using your PC, in other words, your lego creation can move around your house, go to the specific spot you programmed it to, then return.

It would require no R/C equipment, it could blast out the door of the target, then go to the room where the target is and detonate its main charge.

It wasnt lego cheap though, I *think* it was 200 bucks.

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Teamwork is essential.
It lets you blame someone else.

[Bitter]

Where would you get kevlar-type stuff for a robot ? You couldn't use the stuff that they make model planes out of because I think that's kevlar 49. You will need kevlar 129, if I am not mistaken, which is almost impossible to get hold of unless you start cutting up flak jackets.

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"Death should not be rushed; one should savour it like fine wine and enjoy its aroma, but if in consideration of your impatience I must kill you now, then so be it..."

[NoltaiR]

haha!!! I think this has been my favorite topic so far.. with the input so far anyone just
about has the plans for the perfect robotic assassin! We have covered that it needs to
camouflaged, silent (the silencer would also cut a large amount of the recoil off--which is
nice), and extremely mobile.. the idea I like best is making it self destructive. Just think
about this little story I have made up...


One day in a foreign police station, three chiefs are sitting down for their daily doughnut
break fast. Outside a genius hitman has created a small robot that is equipped to do the
assassination for him. The robot rolls up to the nearest bush and looks through the
windows with its camera.. the camera can be is being viewed by the hitman as well as
being read by the robots own AI. The robot pulls out a silenced handgun (has to be some
kind that any person would have) that has been built onto its arm. While scanning the
windows, the robot detects movement and heat behind the secretaries desk with its IR
laser. The gun is raised, sited in, and fired. A drop to the floor that is heard by the robots
super microphones confirms the hit. Suddenly there is panic in the building as the noise
grows louder. The robot waits.. seconds later the first cop walks out of the building ready
to fire. The robot does not hesitate to fire another shot at him. A second drop to the
ground is confirmed. Other personnel in the building have now confirmed the basic
direction of the shots by seeing the direction the previous cop fell. As the two other cops
head to the back fire exit the robot notices a stillness. It rolls around the building to the
back entrance of the building and waits. One of the cops sees the little robot and wonders
what is going on... he moves closer to it and suddenly a flame-thrower knocks him to the
ground with serious burns all over his face.. another bullet in him shuts him up quickly..
sirens are heard in the street nearby as backup is coming. The robot quickly shoots a few
grenades through the window to make sure everyone is out. Soon after the explosions, the
survivors come running out. A few more shots and they are disabled. The backup arrives
with the information that a killer robot is around. They are members of the local police
force as well as S.W.A.T. and the bomb squad (in case any mines have been laid). The
robot detects that he is surrounded and goes to self distruct mode. Just as the robot is
captured, it detonates. Kills all that are around him except for a few bomb squad members
who were properly dressed. They drive off in panic. The genius hitman simply watched his
little creation reek havoc on the community.. and he will have not fired a single shot
himself..

The End

hmmm.. sounded interesting to me :-)

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A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.
-Thomas Jefferson

[Anthony]

Titanium and kevlar aree nice if you have no budget limit, a kevlar or carbon/kevlar shell will cost you a grand very much plus. IIRC the resin is at least or more expensive than the kevlar fabric. Multiply that several times to get it thick enough to stop sniper rounds.

That car stoping emp thing was I think only trials, I don't think they are being put into use yet. Also, I don't think it was emp as it conducted to the car's chassis, I think it was just a high voltage surge tat knocked everything out. Isolating and/or grounding the sheel of a robot should make it HV proof and 3/4" of steel should provide a fair amount of emp resistance.

Someone did make a fighting robot that was controlled by mobile phone, it looked quite involved though and required a laptop on the robot.

Although IC engines would give more power, I think electric is the way to go. Because they're near silent, don't stall, very precise in movement and most IC engines don't have a carb that lets them run inverted.

[kingspaz]

aahhh...model aircraft engines are often mounted inverted and so can run at whatever angle necessary. a helicopter engine would be the best choice in my opinion. the heli engines have a large cylinder head surface area for cooling as the engines don;t tend to be exposed so much as the planes. all you would need to do is fit an airfilter of some sort over the carb and it should work fine. although a petrol heli engine would probably be needed to get a big lump of metal moving. may cost quite a bit more. alos i know tuned pipes can be fitted to glow engines and that increase power and makes them EXTREMELY quiet. i think electric would be best though but range would be much more limited. as with real cars the limiting factor is the battery.

[BoB-]

I think that for small unarmored camo bots electric is definatly the way to go, the engine could be wrapped in insulating material, then the entire chassis filled with insulation, the resulting bot would be quiet enough to stalk its prey.

[twinkle]

I think that such a small unarmed bot would be very usefull for detecting IR sensors trip wires ,microphones etc if you would like to enter a secures terrain .

[DaRkDwArF]

Here is a servo board that powers 8 servos off one serial port...
Serial Servo Board:
https://www.web-money.com/basicx/netmedia_store.cgi?cart_id=

Read the specs,
Make a wireless lan connection sharing the com port in the robots computer and then compile a program (source code is on sorceforge somewhere plus the board comes with a vb clone of software you could use as a design example) there you go, you now have 8 servos at your command, now within that same program you can have a webcam window (just plug a webcam into the robots computer, a cheap logitech will do) and sound.

For hardware your better off getting a small board with all onboard components and 2 pci and an isa slot, get a 2mb wireless card and an isa adaptor (ebay people) and then grab a low end processor (duron/celeron) and 128mb - 256mb ram and a 2-4gb hard drive.

Of course this thing will only be allowed to run Linux/BSD because we all know that a house with no windows and gates has no walls and a house with no walls cannot crash =).

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Do or Do Not, there is no Try

[This message has been edited by DaRkDwArF (edited December 22, 2001).]

[Heavy Recoil]

If you have no size constraints, why not make, what would basically be a remote controlled tank. that would make more than enough room for your modem/cellphone idea. A batch of themite would remove a chance of them tracing it to you. If you make it big enough, you could use a door or hatch to make it look like someone was manually piloted, and a self destruct device may make it probable looking. (I foresee some issues with thermite and a explosive) like nbk2000 posted ages ago (1999) in a thread about tanks, a bobcat (or similar small earth mover) could be employed quite successfully. This may also allow a few more "exotic" weapons. Gas generators, hollow charge explosive devices, copper plate projectors, rocket launchers, large mortars, light and perhaps medium artillery, machine guns firing rounds that would make a .50 cal. Seem like a .22 short , or maybe I’m just getting egotistical http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif (quite probable)

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"I'm not an assassin. killing is more of a hobby with me."' Robert A. Heinlein

[Jacks Complete]

I have had dreams involving these systems...

From the descriptions found here, you will be sending it into the gun shop looking for a phased plasma rifle in a forty watt range...

Anyway, I didn't re-open this thread to (just) post dumb ass comments like that!

The problem that is apparent with near-enough every single design, every idea in this thread, and with what you look at in Robot Wars, is that every robot is designed for the arena. You couldn't get one of them into my house, regardless! *

Ok, step by step.

Drop robot onto tarmac outside the police station.

Problem 1: The robot cannot get up the curb.

The robot goes around a bit, and get onto the pavement. Hopefully the wheels don't ground it on a loose paving stone or pothole.

Problem 2: It starts raining.

The robot was made to be waterproof, so it copes fine, and even manages to get over the grass to the paved path to the front steps of the police station. Hanging a right, it finds the disabled access ramp, and, by stunning coincidence, it is just narrow enough to get through, and trundles up, rather slowly, as the driver doesn't want to drop the robot off the edge, which would leave it stuck and at the mercy of the people who are now standing, stareing at the device in front of them.

Problem 3: At the top of the steps there is a door.

Handily, the door opens as the robot trips the door sensor, sparing it the need to ram it. Sadly the operator had already decided to drive up to it, and the door doesn't open fast enough to avoid the impact as he mis-judges it. The door frame drags the robot to one side, spinning it around a bit.

Problem 4: The cop who is walking back to the station sees this thing that has crashed into the door, and starts looking around for the driver.

Fortunately, the driver is round a corner 200 meters away, but this is towards the limit of non-line-of-sight for the wireless system he is using, as he is using 802.11b and a directional aerial. Of course, the one in the robot isn't exposed like that, or the cop would simply grab it and twist it off... because the driver can't see the cop behind him, as the camera faces forward!

The robot backs up, and enters the building...

Problem 5: The nearest cop throws his jacket over the robot, as he saw in that cool film Runaway (http://imdb.com/title/tt0088024/) with Tom Seleck.

Our demonic creation is bested by this, so the driver trips the self-destruct, and sets fire to the entrance. Fortunately, he doesn't decide to walk around to see the problem first...


As can be seen, there are many problems with this idea. Even if the robot was able to cope with all these things I have described, how would it cope with a fire extinguisher coating it in foam, or even the high pressure water jet types? What would happen when it came to the first door that didn't yield to a good kick (which, realisiticly, there wouldn't be many of in a police station, except for fire and security doors, to keep costs down) or a flight of steps? How the hell would it call the lift?? Hell, if it got inside the lift, the metal walls would shield it so well that the radio wouldn't ever transmit. With no radio link, you are immobile, and without a good radio link, you are blind, even if you have control.

NBK2000's telesniper idea is far more of a goer than this.

Of course, the internal combustion engine is a good weapon in itself, indoors. Run the engine hot, and loop the exhaust back over the top and bottom so that the shell is anti-grab hot, and with an injection of fuel into the exhaust, you have either a smokescreen or flame thrower. If you were using normal stuff, the reduced visibility might be a problem, but since you are four inches off the ground, and hot flame and smoke rises, and you could use a thermal imager or (more likely) near IR for vision, you would be far less put out. Plus your eyes wouldn't sting nearly as much. Exhaust pressure could probably be used for running a BB machine gun (http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=748) as well. Yes, it would soot up after a while, but it would be good for soft targets and area effect stuff.

Once people were aware that something was happening, your robot would soon be trapped. Simply push over a few desks in the corridors, and lay down chairs, etc and it would get no further, as if it has to push hard it will just start burning the carpet. Yes, it could shoot at people, etc. but they don't need to worry about that, as they just fall back once they realise it can shoot.

Once the idea has got around (over the tannoy or similar), expect to run into the tire spike systems the cops use, and any other equipment they routinely use. Gun-wise, they use shotguns, .338 Lapua rifles (not as powerful as .50, but serious, far more power than 308 or 30-06!) or even .50, if there is an airport nearby. MP5 and other fast-firing 9mm weapons are most likely the first layer you will encounter, though. Fire axes and sledge hammers, buckets of sand, etc. are all going to be quite effective ways to slow or even stop the robot, especially indoors where a human is going to be able to dodge far better. Any exposed target area is going to get hit first, too, so the shotgun barrel is going to get bashed.
I would also try jamming the signal on the robot by dialing out on my mobile phone, and throwing it near the robot. This would degrade the signal quite a lot, and cause nasty things to happen in any sensitive bits.

Until recently, there wasn't a robot on Robot Wars that you couldn't have killed using a fire axe and some lower leg protection.* They just weren't nearly powerful or fast enough, for a one-on-one. Don't forget, either, that the humans are very unlikely to go for a stand-and-fight with some metal motherfucker with a shotgun, unless they are armed. In Terminator, they shot at what they thought was human. If it had been the exo-skeleton, they wouldn't have wasted their ammo! (at least not after the first few rounds bounced harmlessly away.)

*The only exception is Killalot, or perhaps that newer one. (This is if I don't expect it, of course!) You need heavy duty tracks, IMO, as it is the only way you are going to get past a lot of obstacles that we just step over is by sheer power and big treads! Those beasties weigh in at more than 250Kg, though, and I doubt they would like a 9mm round, let alone lots of them. I doubt they would fit through most corridors or doorways, either.

Other notes: At my parents, your bot wouldn't stand a chance, as the JCB would just stomp it flat! Outdoors, your bot is going to be easy to ram with a car, etc. and it is a pretty obvious target for tangling weapons, scaffolding poles, etc. Range would also be a killer, as I feel sure I could hide from a home-brew killer robot until it ran out of fuel, even if I was butt-naked and unarmed, in the middle of a field. Hell, on batteries, it would be about ten minutes! As long as I could make it to the first ditch or hedge (which I could, as tracks are slow, and wheels wouldn't go) I would be fine, unless the webcam had a leet sniper option on it. Even that wouldn't help it once I reached cover.


Anyway, I hope this post gets this rather interesting thread running again!

p.s. why is it in Chemistry? Surely it should be in >Engineering Discourse > Improvised Weapons ?

[aliensniper]

I'm not sure as to the availibility of it, but what about depleted Uranium for shield, etc?

The camera would need 360 degree view, so as to avoid the attack from behind scenario.

I was thinking, instead of chain saws and other extreme close range weapons, maybe a high caliber gattling/chain gun with 360 degree firing range would be better. Just have some (small) blades on the outside to prevent people from getting close. Honestly, if I saw a gun, or a blade for that matter, I wouldn't bother playing hero and try to stop it.

[Tuatara]

You're all thinking too small! You want to nick a bulldozer from a construction yard and RC that. Even without added weapons you could do a huge amount of damage. Doors are no longer a problem, nor curbs, stairs, potholes, axes, fireextinguishers, civilians, cops. You'd need a truck to stop something like that.

For radio you want 2.45GHz spreadspectrum, flat patch antenna on the 'dozer, and a 20 element Yagi at the control end. At 2.45 GHz the Yagi will only be about a foot long.

We're not playing by the rules anymore. No weight limits, power limits, range limits, weapon limits.

Edit: of course, nicking a bulldozer presents its own set of challenges ....

[aliensniper]

The only limit I could think of would be price.
I guess if you knew for a fact that you could get it back, then it wouldn't matter. But, you have to expect the worse, losing it, and possibly losing the thousands you invested into it.

Unless, you build a smaller model to bail out the one the pigs captured ;)

[Jacks Complete]

Nicking a bulldozer or JCB ain't that easy anymore!

In the UK it is now usual for the cab to be protected by a load of steel plate to prevent entry, as well as all the usual security. It comes from too many cash machines getting stolen!

You would have to go well prepared. And then where are you going to keep it while you set it all up? You need a flatbed truck, and a pretty big barn, or a hanger.

IMO, the best way would be to get something like one of the big JCB diggers, photo it, and start your designs. Then rent one, or otherwise get access to one, and make sure your system is going to work. Now send it back. What you have now is a "quick conversion kit of doom"!

Next step: wait till you know where the million dollar diamond, or whatever, is, and then the night before you break in to a few places and kit out the JCBs. You now have (say) TEN of these things.

Obviously, this means that if one breaks down, it isn't an issue, you can't be caught with the goods unless you get caught in the yard fitting it, there is no storage problem, etc.

If you got really clever, you could code them so that they could do simple flocking behaviour, like "Follow" or "Line abreast" formations, which would be ideal for destroying small towns.

The armour plate in/over the cab would protect your drive system, too, as well as stopping anyone thinking they are radio controlled. (They couldn't see in)

The level of complexity here is too high, though. You would need to either have a team of drivers, all with the skills required (train on a simulator?) or some kind of low-level AI system so the nine tracks you weren't watching wouldn't just sit there looking stupid. You would get caught when they triangulated the radio, too. I would use 2.4 as well as 3G mobile phones. Odds are they would cut the phones as soon as they realised, but they would need to jam the 2.4 channels. Of course they would probably chase down the transmiter at a rate of knots, but if it was a relay station, and another JCB, what would they do? You hit a button, and your basic AI goes into "crush anything that moves" mode, you cut your other comms link (on whatever frequency you were using that wasn't 2.4 or 3G mobile (which you wouldn't use anyway if it could be traced!) and leave.

Also, how the heck would you profit from anything like this though? Only the insurance companies, the police and the builders would. I have little doubt that this forum would be shut down and all the members arrested and kept out of sight for a few years at least (Cuba in the summer is too hot for me!) and even if you were totally innocent, by the time you got out, all the damage would have been repared, the police would have rocket launchers, and the civilians would have not even a BP rifle between them. The home builders would all have made thier money and left, and the insurance companies would be sat in Zurich rubbing thier hands gleefully at the massive insurance premiums they "had" to level in case anything like this happened again...

[flashpoint]

I have some things to note, as my father owns not only a pool store, but a hobby shop.

1. Your going to want to go with Gas, unless you have time to change batteries after 15-25 minutes of running, with all that automation involved, your going to want gas :)

2. Why not use a lexan top, on top of the metal body? Or just use lexan period....its clear :)

[ronald]

The germans had in WWII a small RC tank, which was stuffed with explosives and then driven under an enemy tank and then exploded. It wasnt a very popular weapon, because the operators couldnt cover, because they had to guide that thing.

[Anthony]

You could go with electric drive and then an ICE/generator combo to keep the batteries topped up. If the ICE fails, you know you have X about of run time in the batts to do something useful.

Why is the transparency of Polycarbonate an advantage? So people can see what to hit to disable your 'bot?

JC has raised some very good points though... :)

[thrall]

I tried to attech image but I couldn't.Anyway as we can see the trend in the war industry lately(and it's history as well) we see one clear thing,For offence range and accuracy and for defence speed and number.I feel like revision of history.First there were no armours,then massive armors means victory,then comes the Gun,again no armors because if you are hit you are dead.

Same is true when you design a robot(of course,it depends on the task you want to do with it).For offence go for range and accuracy but for defence go for speed and number.Don't go for armor(even if you make armor,make it very light,just to stop being damaged by jerks and falling from stairs kind of scenarios).And yes make small robots and in big numbers(say send 10small in place of 1 big for instance ;) ).Since the cost wont be high for smallies you can afford to make big number of them as well(mass production will reduse the cost even more:) ).

And when you make robot with tracks rather than wheels..And big tracks of rubber not of metal.In that case the robot will be light and electric motors will be more than enough.And I cant see the point of recovering a robot.Hell! what do you think piggies won't follow it?.But in this case when robot is small and the number is big,you can retrive some "object if you want to without being tracked.

Yes and self destruct is obligatory :D.

Conclusion:Lots of small robots.Non recoverable,self destruct.If big guns or sharp shooting is needed you can always increase the size by a bit to acconmaodate.

Jack's Complete: To get in your house I will not send a very big robot.I'll send 5-10 fedayeen:p robots.One will come hit your door and the door and the first fedayeen vanished.Now there are say 4 more left so I can open 3 more door and still take down my target.How did you like this?:cool: .

PS: Themachine I made was small but I couldn't attech the images.Anyway it was a machine which had four wheels that were big enough that the entire machine remained inside of the wheels even when toppeled unsidedown.And yes,it could climb stairs(wasn't remaote controled though).The improve ment is to cover it with a light armor of glassfiber-rasin hemispherical shield.Noew this robot can not be compromised by toppleing since it will always be on the tracks.Plust the space in the hemisphere will provide enough room for a GOOD self destruct:D to destry the machine as well as........ :p .

[flashpoint]

Why is the transparency of Polycarbonate an advantage? So people can see what to hit to disable your 'bot?

I didn't mean anything about the transparency of it, I was just noting it was clear.

[Jacks Complete]

thrall,

The problem you would have is that you couldn't drive all 5 robots at the same time! So you manage to get one to the door, and frag the door. The next one has to track over and through all the wreckage, and you already started the clock! Police and fire will be heading here, and I will be alerted too. In a small house like I am in now, you blow the door at the bottom of the stairs, and your other three robots aren't going to have anything to climb!

Also, unlike most in this country, I both know how to shoot and can shoot. Even if you could stop what I threw at your bot, I can still blind it with a paintball gun, or throw a blanket over it from above. Yes, you could have it shoot at me, but forewarned is forearmed! Besides, a shotgun to the sensor head is going to mar the surface enough that your bot is blind, from 20 yards.

So you blow that one. The third bot has to come in from outside, and then it has to get over the rest of the door, and over the crater left by #2. Assume the stairs were intact, it might get up them, it might not. By now I would have ears on, be kitted up, and loaded for bear. Failing that, I would have gone out a window and be on the roof, or in the attic, which, even with the ladder down, is going to stop your bot from mission success, since you would have to try to guess where I was, and just blowing things up randomly would mean you ran out of bots fairly quickly.

Also, building 5 bots is going to be about 4 times more expensive than building one big one. Materials cost is lower, slightly, but control systems are the expensive bit, and you suddenly need 5 rc sets, five times more cameras, motors, etc. It would also require a lot more time!

I saw Terminator when I was a kid, and I know how I would have smashed that metal motherfucker into junk...

[thrall]

@Jack's Complete:I was thinking of causing chaos and panic rather that take somebody down.Well since you asked let me say that If I just want to take YOU down with my robot(considering the setting that you've describe) I'll just let my fedayeen wait at your door early in the morning and keep monitoring camera till YOU open the door(although knocking your door by fedayeen will not be very bad I suppose,of course now that you know this you won't open the door but If you didn't then you would have opened the door,right.Moreover I can hear all the sounds so eve if you don't open the door I can still know that somebody is there right behind the door whenever he/she will approach the door).After that will be a simple story......;).
Yes thats what I meant by greater number + small size.The main function of the robot should be to explode right in front of target rather that taking the target by some other means and COME BACK.What do you think? The police will not come if some BIG robot rams in someones house and somehow compromises the target before he/she can call the pigs.The pigs shall be called by someone else anyway.And breaking through the door I said, only in case the target is trying to hide in the doors.If the target is not already aware of the attack then of course sneaking onto it will be the wisest move.
20 Yards,eh? Even a 4 kg. mine
(http://science.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=landmine.htm&url=http://www.angola.npaid.org/minelist_all_database.htm)
has lethal radious of 25 meters.Thats what my different fedayeens will be for;).If want to destroy a gate send Fedayeen no.3 "Abdullah:)"
If want to cause mayham send fedayeen no.1 "Yaaseen".And so on.....
Yes,You are right it will be more expencive.But how much more(Spycam(transmitter + reciever,note that in one attack the recievers still survives,yet I count that as gone):80$,control Simple on/off relays for manuvering(I never used any control for speed,Just two relays 1 for left track and other for the right.Since I'm not mounting anything like flame trower or other exotic devise so one on/off relay for self destruct.Plus two more for for triggering a gun(if mounted) and some other activity(if added, See controling an arm or like that IS pointless anyway.

Cost 50$
(http://www.rentron.com/remote_control/RX-6_Combo.htm)

If I've mounted a gun(I won't mount a gun obviously) then I do need some better controls for aiming,but hey! robots for aiming at close range is anyway impracticle(try to controle a robot and you will know),that means that my sharpshooter(not fedayeen)(if I use it) will be far from the scene lurking in some corner and that will be recovered.

Sototal 80+50=130$ for controllers and camera,BTW thats not very high cost considering the fact that other material used will not cost much(Even making a big one will cost a lot far as construction meterial of the body is concerned).
What do ta say? :cool:

Now that much for your house.The goal of making a robot is the only thing that desides it's design.Maybe for selective assasination a big boy is better but then again there is problem of transportation.How will you take the robots to the vicinity of target?Definately if a robot of the size of the order of car is moving on the road,somebody WILL take some action.That rules out the possibility of leaving your macine faar fron the target and "driving" it to the target.For leaving the machine near the target the problem remains same,How?As for the smallies,you can load them in the back of your car.Stop the car and just toss them out.(they will always land on tracks:)).
Plus for other kind of operations(panic,mayham) these smallies will be the best there can be.Do I need to explain it?:cool:
EDIT:didn't want to post a new reply,but if you notice I've put the cost of camera as 80$ ans the cost of RF CONTROLER is 50$.

[Jacks Complete]

thrall,

I wasn't knocking your idea totally, just helping to debug it!

However, if I was going to do what you propose there, I would just use a Claymore-type mine in a bush! Use a PIR or tripwire if the area is secure, or just a wireless tv camera and single channel door opener - £100-ish, plus the claymore.

Where are you getting a wireless camera for $50? That site charges $50 just for the four channel transmitter and latch, which is about £30-40 in the UK. Wireless cameras cost about £60 upwards here.

To spread terror you need to terrorize. The best way to do that is to get the government to publicly state you are going to blow something up, or poison something, or kill something, but they don't know where, when, who or how. Blowing up your robots won't keep the mistique!

[john_smith]

Hehe! I have played a lot with the idea of building an RC plane with a full-auto .22 or two in my kewl days...though it was more for simple vandalism than anything else.
A thought about the "Quick conversion kit of doom", many new cars have electric power steering now, as well as ABS, traction control, automatic trannies etc., which means the car has all the servos already installed and the conversion kit could be totally electronic and fit a load of different makes and models. Just plug in a few connectors and off you go. Very handy for vaporizing checkpoints, or you could use the RC car for a decoy on getaway.

[nbk2000]

Why make it so hard?

Plastic garbage bags filled with anhydrous ammonia gas are held in a net to provide lift to a large bomb that is attached to a cellular phone with a GPS. The cellie transmitts the bombs coordinates to the terr on the other end who, when the bomb is located over a suitable target area, sends the DTMF tone that releases the bomb.

The bomb falls and explodes at a thousand feet over the target, raining either bomblets or NBC upon the targets heads, all with no defense. :)

Less than a thousand dollars TOTAL. :D

If you wanted precision, have a TV camera built into it and have the controller following the ballon in a vehicle so he can guide it like a smart-bomb right into the target.

Start upwind of D.C. and the politicos will have to cower in bunkers to be safe. Cities are helpless prey. >)

If the japs could do it with ballons launched from japan using simple clockwork timers...

You could use a large truck to carry a large amount of liquid explosive to the target (presumably a secured building) with a R/C ATV with a bladder and hose reel connected to the liquid explosive drum to circumvent the security provided by standoffs.

The truck drives up as close as possible before the ATV rolls off the back and smashes into the building, unreeling the hose behind it.

The ATV is spraying tear gas and smoke the whole way so no one can get near enough to cut the hose.

Once inside the building, the bladder is unfolded and the pumps in the truck transfer the LEX into it. Once full....BOOM!

Because the explosion will be taking place inside of the target, rather than from outside, the damage will be greatly magnified, using much less than would be possible with an exerior charge. :)

The operator could be inside the truck, since the explosion would be smothered by the collapsing building, assuming he's not ten yards from it at the time.

[Jacks Complete]

What the military in the UK and USA have come up with:
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<font class="orangetxt">Gun-slinging robot headed for Iraq combat</font></a></b> - [<font color="#485ef4">Technology</font>]<br>Submitted by <a href="mailto:seraph1m@ircspy.com">seraphim</a> on 1/25/2005 9:21:12 AM <img src="http://images.ircspy.com/comments.gif" border="0" height="11" width="22"> <b><a href="comments.asp?mode=view&amp;id=2441">17 Comments</a></b><br><br></p><blockquote>
The rain is turning to snow on a blustery January morning, and all the
men gathered in a parking lot here surely would prefer to be inside.
But the weather couldn't matter less to the robotic sharpshooter they
are here to watch as it splashes through puddles, the barrel of its
machine gun pointing the way.
<p>The Army is preparing to send 18 of these remote-controlled robotic
warriors to fight in Iraq beginning in March or April. Made by a small
Massachusetts company, the SWORDS, short for Special Weapons
Observation Reconnaissance Detection Systems, will be the first armed
robotic vehicles to see combat.

</p><p>
<img src="http://springfield.news-leader.com/business/today/0123-Gunslingin_2.jpg"> <img src="http://springfield.news-leader.com/business/today/0123-Gunslingin_1.jpg">
</p><p>It's easy to humanize the SWORDS as it moves out of an office
building and into the cold with nary a shiver. Military officials like
to compare the roughly three-foot-high robots favorably to human
soldiers: They don't need to be trained, fed or clothed. They can be
boxed up and warehoused between wars. They never complain. And there
are no letters to write home if they meet their demise in battle.
</p><p>But officials are quick to point out that these are not the
autonomous killer robots of science fiction. A SWORDS robot shoots only
when its human operator presses a button after identifying a target on
video shot by the robot's cameras. "The only difference is that his
weapon is not at his shoulder, it's up to half a mile a way," said Bob
Quinn, general manager of Talon robots for Foster-Miller Inc., the
Waltham, Mass., company that makes the SWORDS.
</p><p>Quinn said it was a "bootstrap development process" to convert
a Talon robot, which has been in military service since 2000, from its
main mission — defusing roadside bombs in Iraq — into the gun-slinging
SWORDS. It was a joint development process between the Army and
Foster-Miller, a robotics firm bought in November by QinetiQ Group PLC.
</p><p>Army officials and employees of the robotics firm heard from
soldiers "who said 'My brothers are being killed out here. We love the
EOD (explosive ordnance disposal), but let's put some weapons on it,'"
said Quinn. Working with soldiers and engineers at Picatinny Arsenal in
New Jersey, it took just six months and only about $2 million in
development money to outfit a Talon with weapons, according to Quinn
and Anthony Sebasto, a technology manager at Picatinny.
</p><p>The Talon had already proven itself to be pretty rugged. One
was blown off the roof of a Humvee and into a nearby river by a
roadside bomb in Iraq. Soldiers simply opened its shrapnel-pocked
control unit and drove the robot out of the river, according to Quinn.
The $200,000, armed version will carry standard-issue Squad Automatic
Weapons. All its optics equipment — the four cameras, night vision and
zoom lenses — were already in the Army's inventory.
</p><p>"It's important to stress that not everything has to be super
high tech," said Sebasto. "You can integrate existing componentry and
create a revolutionary capability." The SWORDS' developers say its
tracks, like those on a tank, can overcome rock piles and barbed wire,
though it needs a ride to travel faster than 4 mph.
</p><p>Running on lithium ion batteries, it can operate for 1 to 4
hours at a time, depending on the mission. Operators work the robot
using a 30-pound control unit which has two joysticks, a handful of
buttons and a video screen. Quinn says that may eventually be replaced
by a "Gameboy" type of controller hooked up to virtual reality goggles.
The Army has been testing it over the past year at Picatinny and the
Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland to ensure it won't malfunction and
can stand up to radio jammers and other countermeasures.
</p><p>Its developers say the SWORDS not only allows its operators to
fire at enemies without exposing themselves to return fire, but also
can make them more accurate. A typical soldier who could hit a target
the size of a basketball from 300 meters away could hit a target the
size of a nickel with the SWORDS, according Quinn.
</p><p>The better accuracy stems largely from the fact that its gun is
mounted on a stable platform and fired electronically, rather than by a
soldier's hands, according to Staff Sgt. Santiago Tordillosi of the EOD
Technology Directorate at Picatinny. Gone are such issues as trigger
recoil, anticipation problems, and pausing the breathing cycle while
aiming a weapon.
</p><p>
"It eliminates the majority of shooting errors you would have," said Tordillosi.
</p><p>
source: <a href="http://springfield.news-leader.com/business/today/0123-Gunslingin-285627.html">news leader</a>
----

[Silentnite]

So now comes the video game training for the army. Or instead of the ASVAB test, they put you in a room with an XBOX and XBOX live and see how many frags you get with HALO2. :cool:

Any chance one of them will get struck by lightning and turn into Jonny 5? :p


Self-sustaining killer robot creates a stink

Microbial fuel cells digest flies to generate electricity

It may eat flies and stink to high heaven, but if this robot works, it will be an important step towards making robots fully autonomous.

To survive without human help, a robot needs to be able to generate its own energy. So Chris Melhuish and his team of robotics experts at the University of the West of England in Bristol are developing a robot that catches flies and digests them in a special reactor cell that generates electricity.

So what is the downside? The robot will most likely have to attract the hapless flies by using a stinking lure concocted from human excrement.

Called EcoBot II, the robot is part of a drive to make "release and forget" robots that can be sent into dangerous or inhospitable areas to carry out remote industrial or military monitoring of, say, temperature or toxic gas concentrations. Sensors on the robot feed a data logger that periodically radios the results back to a base station.
Exoskeleton electricity

The robot's energy source is the sugar in the polysaccharide called chitin that makes up a fly's exoskeleton. EcoBot II digests the flies in an array of eight microbial fuel cells (MFCs), which use bacteria from sewage to break down the sugars, releasing electrons that drive an electric current (see graphic).

In its present form, EcoBot II still has to be manually fed fistfuls of dead bluebottles, but the ultimate aim of the UWE robotics team is to make the droid predatory, using sewage as a bait to catch the flies.

"One of the great things about flies is that you can get them to come to you," says Melhuish. The team has yet to tackle this, but speculates that it would involve using a bottleneck-style flytrap with some form of pump to suck the flies into the digestion chambers.

With a top speed of 10 centimetres per hour, EcoBot II's roving prowess is still modest to say the least. "Every 12 minutes it gets enough energy to take a step forwards two centimetres and send a transmission back," says Melhuish.

But it does not need to catch too many flies to do so, says team member Ioannis Ieropoulos. In tests, EcoBot II travelled for five days on just eight fat flies - one in each MFC.
Donated sewage

So how do flies get turned into electricity? Each MFC comprises an anaerobic chamber filled with raw sewage slurry - donated by UWE's local utility, Wessex Water. The flies become food for the bacteria that thrive in the slurry.

Enzymes produced by the bacteria break down the chitin to release sugar molecules. These are then absorbed and metabolised by the bacteria. In the process, the bacteria release electrons that are harnessed to create an electric current.

Previous efforts to use carnivorous MFCs to drive a robot included an abortive UWE effort: the Slugbot. This was designed to hunt slugs on farms by using imaging systems to spot and grab the pests, and then deliver them to a digester that produces methane to power a fuel cell.

The electricity generated would have been used to charge the Slugbot when it arrived at a docking station. But the methane-based system took too long to produce power, and the team realised that MFCs offered far more promise.

Elsewhere, researchers in Florida created a train-like robot dubbed Chew Chew (New Scientist print edition, 22 July 2000) that used MFCs to charge a battery, but the bacteria had to be fed on sugar cubes.

For an autonomous robot to survive in the wild, relying on such refined foodstuffs is not an option, says Melhuish. EcoBot II, on the other hand, is the first robot to use unrefined fuel. Just do not stand downwind.
Taken from (http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6366)


And I had an idea, what about taking a RC Plane and outfitting it with little bomblets? Have some HE attached to the undercarriage via AP-attched glue or something, and when you have the plane over your target, you can hit a button and have it explode the small AP charge dropping the HE bomblet. And the plus side is, I've seen RC planes outfitted with wireless pen camera's. Make your own UMV. :D

[DirtyDan]

I too have been working on something similar to this, although it is not meant to be malicious (yet). I am simply combining a webcam, wireless ethernet card with antennae, a very old laptop running linux, and two 18v drill motors to make my car. The plan was to first wardrive around with a GPS and find a clear and long path I could run the bot along. Then I would let it go and guide it via internet (the laptop would function as a webserver :) ) around town and see how well it survived. With a 5db antannae, I could actually make it a long ways. With the GPS hooked up to the laptop itself, I could even programm the thing to set waypoints and drive over to a friends house for him to charge it up. The other thought was to add on a pnuematic cannon for fun, but thats just a thought.


I know its dumb, but after wardriving a while I really have quite a few possibilities. If I lost connection and had a GPS on board, it could easily be programmed to drive off to its next destination and get back online. Only 25% of the access points I stumbled had WEP on, so that would not be a problem either. And without the screen running, the laptop stays on for a long time. It will be interesting, right now im fighting with driver issues and hardware on an old Pentium I.