KNO3 and Fertilizer

[Eno]

Sometimes being a Pyro can be sad. Especially when your poor(as in hamburger helper poor http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/tongue.gif)and have shitty access to chemicals.

I've been researching using fertilizer as a soruce of KNO3, and have found out a little. I'll need something like a 14-0-45 or a
13-0-46 ratio (N,P,K), it should be the
"crystalline" type, and of course, should come in big whoppin' bags for very little money.

This is the sad part. I can't find any fertilizer companies that sell fertilizer in that ratio. I know it exists, I remember reading on Richard Nakka's page about a fertilizer called Vicknite. Vicknite is a fertilizer used for tobacco, and has just the right ratio.

So if anyone could help me out with information on ANY aspect(suppliers, prices, purification, etc) of using fertilizer as a Potassium Nitrate source, I'd really apreciate it.

[CodeMason]

You might want to ask around for "nitrate of potash", the common name for potassium nitrate fertilizer.

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[CyclonitePyro]

Sorry for bringing up an old topic but I didn't wan't to start a new topic on something this small.

While searching on google for an online place to buy some NH4NO3 and KNO3 fertilizer, I found this little article <a href="http://zolatimes.com/V1.3/ANFO.html" target="_blank">http://zolatimes.com/V1.3/ANFO.html</a>
I hate the way ignorant people word info on explosives, like "a anfo bomb", I hate the word bomb to begin with.
What do they mean by fertilizer grade not being nearly as powerful as the explosive grade? Ammonium Nitrate IS Ammonium Nitrate. I'm guessing they just mean it would have to be refined as in taking off the coating.
Also, I have been looking for a while and can't find a website offering ammonium and potassium nitrate fertilizer for sale not in bulk. Any help would be appreciated.
Man that makes me pissed about the entire O.C. Bombing lies.

<small>[ March 16, 2002, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: CyclonitePyro ]</small>

[HOOPS123]

If you can't locate the fertilizer, use Stump remover. Thats what I use. Its not as good of a deal, but when you only have 5 bucks to spend its pretty nice.

[CyclonitePyro]

I usually get KNO3 from pyrotek, and if I needed it bad I could get it from ebay, but instead of wasting money I want to just wait until I find some KNO3 fertilizer in bulk.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Since I only have interest in preparing high explosives, I buy only sodium nitrate. I have a good source right now: a fertilizer shop about 20 miles away sells sodium nitrate as "Soda of Nitrate" at the fair price of $6 for a 5lb box. The people who work in the store are mostly teenage girls, who do not have the slightest clue what 20lbs of sodium nitrate can be used for. It's a reliable, worry-free, and cheap source of the nitrate ion.

[DBSP]

Here I buy KNO3 at the local supermarket, only in 30g bags though. But it's enaugh for nitrations. When spring comes I will buy 50kg of AN and a similar ammount of KNO3. It can be bought at a nation covering chain wich sells fertilizers and such..

[photonic]

This thread has been dead for a while, but for those interested:
According to hydroponics people, the "Green Light Co" stump remover sold at Home Depot is pure potassium nitrate. It's the only source I have found so far here in Southern US.

[xoo1246]

DBSP: What are the names of those AN and KNO3 fertilizers? I have been looking around, but not found a pure enough product. Maybe it's me not looking hard enough. Please educate me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[NoltaiR]

I buy my KNO3 from a place called Earthworks. They never have it on hand but it only takes 3 days for an order to come in. I usually buy two 50 pound bags sold under the brandname 'K-power' for $25 per bag. (two bags usually totals $64 when you figure in tax and special order costs).

And I would suppose no one would need as much as I do because my main use with it is to make homemade BP (and 100 pounds of KNO3 can make a hell of a lot of BP).

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

NaNO3 = "Nitrate of Soda"
KNO3 = "Nitrate of Potash"
Ca(NO3)2 = "Nitrate of Lime"
NH4NO3 = "Nitrate of Ammonia" (I think)

[inferno]

KNO3 can be bought in most countries as SQM fertilisers - <a href="http://www.sqm.com" target="_blank">http://www.sqm.com</a> .
NPK's = KNO3 - 13-0-46 Ca(NO3)2 - 13-0-0. I suppose NaNO3 would be close to 13-0-0, if not the same. It should say somewhere on the package bag what it is.

[TheBear]

DBSP: The most brands of "Salpeter" (found at the spices) contains 50% NaCl!!! to check if you have impure KNO3 just make a sugar + KNO3 mix and light it, if the flame is yellow you got the bad quality one, if its purpule/lilac/blue you've got pretty good quality sample

Xoo: I found fert. grade KNO3 in a paintshop! They had to order it for me and it was pretty expensive $60 for 25kg (the only amount they sold) but I'ts pretty good quality.
EDIT: Read RDX's post in this thread: <a href="http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000003" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000003</a>

Im also interested in what impurities my FG-KNO3 contains and in what amount, do you know any good methods to find out? I think it should be very helpful to a lot of people on the forum (including me :) ) if we could write a procedure how to determine what impurities the fert. contains and in what amounts. And preferably a procedure how to purify the fert. depending on the impurities.

<small>[ October 14, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: TheBear ]</small>

[McGyver]

I got this stuff from from Home Depot Stump Out (http://www.bonideproducts.com/products/stumpout.htm), no information on what ingrediants it contains. Its not in prill form, so i tried to put a match to it, nothing. So then i got the torch out and the stuff still didnt ignite, it statred to turn into yellowish prills. Im going to try to disolve the stuff.

[Skean Dhu]

i get my KNO3 from a local landscaping/garden store, its like $3.20usd (with tax) for 1.5lbs of pure KNO3. sold under the brand name "Hi-Yield Stump Remover".

[EP]

McGyver - The bondide stuff isn't KNO3. Even if it was, it wouldn't just light, you'd have to mix it with a fuel... Here are two kinds of stump remover:
http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/projectsdevicesdir/stumpremover1.jpg
Obviously one works and one doesn't... I got my Grants at Home Depot, $5/lb but have since gotten much better sources.

[McGyver]

Damn it! I was checking out your site and i saw that picture, thanks anyway. What is the composition, any ideas?

[Mendeleev]

The exact company and brand of pure KNO3 fertilizer are Multi-K made by Haifa Chemicals Ltd. The company says that it is pure potassium nitrate, that it is water soluble, and chloride free. They also claim they are the world's leadin producer of potassium nitrate. That's probably the best you can get. If your garden shop doesn't have any, then ask them to order it, that's how I get mine. I think the website is http://www.haifachem.com/fertilizer/foliar_feed.html, but I think its down because it doesn't work on my computer for some reason. Hope this helps.

[Crazy Swede]

CyclonitePyro, it seems like you never got an answer to your question about different grades of ammonium nitrate. The difference is all about surface area, since it's crucial to optimise the contact between the oxidiser and fuel in explosives!

AN for the explosive industry looks like small round pearls with lots of pores. They are made in high towers where hot saturated solution of AN is sprayed through something that looks like giant shower nozzles. While falling through a facing air stream, the droplets dry out and porous particles are formed.

The so-called fertiliser grade is more often of the natural and coarse crystalline variety.

[bombtech]

The question of what chemical was in 'stump out' stump remover was never answered and seeing as I have a container of this I wanted to ask again. if anyone has an idea of what chemical, or how I can find out what this stuff is, your help would be greatly appreciated.

[Anthony]

http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:mKTGl08Jd2oJ:www.bonideproducts.com/msds/pdf/stumpout.pdf+%22stump+out%22+material+safety&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Whatever it is, it's not very interesting. Even the company advertise it as "non explosive".

[bombtech]

yeh, I was just hopeing that someone may know its chemical makup to see if its usefull or even worth keeping (I have no stumps to get rid of)

[Mendeleev]

I finally figured out how the hell they calculate those fucked up fertilizer ratios of nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium. It hit me while I was taking a nap and staring at the periodic table on my wall. The first number nitrogen is the molecular mass of the nitrogen per molecule divided by the total molecular mass of the molecule. The others are the same. So take any molecule you want, and think it could be used as a fertilizer and follow the process, round off, and ask for that ratio fertilizer. So for example NH4NO3:

2N- 2(14.01) = 28.02
4H- 4(1.008) = 4.032
3O- 3(16.00) = 48.00
------------------------------
80.232

So take the N content, which is 28.02 and divide by 80.232 to get .3492. Multiply by 100 and you get 34.92% which is roughly equal to the 34-0-0 ratio in the fertilizer. Now one thing that had me confused is KNO3:

1K- 1(39.10) = 39.10
1N- 1(14.01) = 14.01
3O- 3(16.00) = 48.00
------------------------------
101.11

So take 14.01 and divide by 101.11, multiply be a hundred to get 13.86, which is correct for the first number which is usually 13.00-13.75, but then do potassium and get 38.67. I have seen some people say they were going to buy 13-0-38 fertilizer for KNO3, and I have seen others my self included talking about getting 13-0-46 for KNO3. This is a bit off, but on the back it said 46%K2O content. Since KNO3 has only one K, I divide 2K + O by twice the mass of the molecule thus 94.20/202.22 * 100 and got 46.58. This matches the second fertilizer and in theory it is KNO3 since 2K divided by twice the total mass. However what the hell is the oxygen atom doing in that formula :confused:?! Aaaaaargh! Damn farmers :mad:.

[DirtyDan]

Hi, I realize this topic is a year old, and maybe this isnt the best topic to post this, but I recently bought "Spectracide Stum Remover" from Wal-mart, for 4.95 a lb. On the back label it reads: "Warning: Contains Potassium Nitrate", so I am hoping for some positive results here. Im going to do a sugar burn test tommorrow hopefully, although I am going out of town on a campout. The bottle has an odd lid, like some glue bottles, somewhat of a spout i guess. It is in powdered form, not prilled, so it should be similar to the Green Light stump remover that can be found in some hardware stores and Home Depot. At Ace and Hardware Hank, I was unable to find a KNO3 stump remover, only the "Stump Out" useless brand. Hopefully this helps someone looking for it, although the purity might be dissapointing.