Log in

View Full Version : Bank Safes


CragHack
October 21st, 2001, 03:32 PM
Wow i haven't posted here in a while. It is good to be back. I like what has become of the place i really have. I breath a big sigh of relief knowing the mods are cracking down big time. Kudos to you guys. Now on to my question

Bank safes... Are most of them really locked with "time locks" (so to speak) so they can only be unlocked at certain times of the day, or is this all movie bull shit? Any help would be appreciated.

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

nbk2000
October 21st, 2001, 06:41 PM
Yes, they are time locked. This is to prevent someone from kidnapping the bank president and forcing him to open the safe during non-business hours. It also keeps the bank president from going in by himself!

But attacking the vault door is counter productive since it's the hardest part of the vault to penetrate. The majority of succesful bank burglaries take place through the walls, floor, or roof. Useually they do it by tunneling in and quitely breaking through the concrete.

But now we have anti-material chemicals that can either dissolve the concrete, or bacteria that will literally eat it. Obtaining these things I leave to you.

Or you can brute force it and blast through with an EFP (platter) charge. A platter made from a railroad fish plate, backed by 400 pounds of HE, will blast a 2' diameter hole through 3 feet of reinforced concrete, taking out the rebar in the process.

Or, using less explosives, you can use a shaped charge to punch a hole in the wall, and slide in a radial shaped charge that'll then open up the hole to large enough to climb through.

How you deal with the cops is a problem though. Maybe a bank in a flood zone? You run up on it while it's still pouring rain, do your business, and if it's timed with the lightning, you could avoid detection.

Some guy back in the 50's did that with a 20mm cannon, timing the shots to the lightning.

Anyways, you'd have better chances of success during business hours. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

PYRO500
October 21st, 2001, 08:14 PM
you may have a better chance of success during busnuess hours but you have more of a chance of getting caught by some dumb bitch tripping the alarm, I know NBK say's you should work alone, but if it were a small bank in a flood zone you have 4 people, 3 of the people place shaped charges, and the 4th sits in the van, witch has an array of poliece radios and scanners to determine the awareness of your attack (there should be none) any indication and you drop your tools (no serial numbers) and ditch the place. you have the 3 helpers and you attach the shaped charges and blast a hole in then you grab as much as you can in less than 4 min and run. then you dump your van in the ocean. (it was stolen right?) also a note on daytime robberies, most of the time the people get caught with exploding dye packs, dont! rob a bank with the things by the door that are labeled something like sensortron or something, they look like theft detectors in shopping malls they are what activates the dye packs, hack them down when you enter.



------------------
"Death may come from above, but terror most certainly comes from below."

CragHack
October 21st, 2001, 09:05 PM
Thank you for the info. If someone was to go through the floor, the walls or the cieling what types of alrams would one encounter if they were to go the concrete? I am assuming motion sensors are in the walls and shit to prevent boring through them.

And another question about the timing of the locks on the doors. Does anyone know when usual bank locks are openable (openable... i am using way to much weed) i would assume the vault is accesable at the very startof the business day wouldn't you think? or maybe right as the first tellor, or manager gets there in the morning before the bank actually opens for business. any thoughts?

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

nbk2000
October 22nd, 2001, 04:17 AM
I believe the clocks are set to unlock it just a few minutes before offically opening for business.

As for the walls and such, I believe they have vibration detectors to detect jack hammering, explosives, and drilling.

However, chemicals and bacteria don't vibrate. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif Neither do thermic lances which melt concrete and rebar like hot knife through butter. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

Problem with thermic lances though is the back splatter of molten metal on concrete, plus dense clouds of toxic fumes. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

But that's why God created the asbestos suit and gas mask. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

(EXTREME TANGENT)
I saw in a Scientific American a few months ago that they've supposedly created an artifical black hole in a lab somewhere. This is an extremely tiny one obviously, but it does suck in light like it's big brothers.

Now, knowing this, eventually it will be possible to create larger black holes. And we know what a black hole does....sucks things into oblivion. It also warps time (slow down time lock so it'll open during non-business hours).

Create a black hole at a bank vault door and watch it disappear into nothingness. Then the problem becomes one of how do you get the money past it without it (or you) getting sucked in too. Hmmm... http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif
(/EXTREME TANGENT)

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited October 22, 2001).]

CragHack
October 22nd, 2001, 02:58 PM
I think shifting concrete would also set off alarms that are sensitive to vibration. But if you could cut a square out of the concrete, and let that drop strait down you might be able to avoid the sensors. assuming you were not cutting directly over/through one.

Another question:

Are modern day bank safes, combonation locks, locks that open by a key, or both? Obviously all institutions can and will be different, But is there an industry standard (so to speak) that most banks abide by?

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

mongo blongo
October 22nd, 2001, 03:42 PM
Straying slightly away from the subject, I remember reading about using explosives to open a safe (not the ones in banks but the ones that uses that turning knob thing to enter the combination).
Well, you have probably seen people doing this films when they always put a small amount of some plastic explosive on the knob to blow a hole in the door. Obviously this is stupid because whatever is in the safe is gona get fucked up!
The real way to do this is put the explosive on the hinges and the locking mechanism. Not to blow the hinges off though! You need a sharp shock that will push the whole door inwards which is supposed to crack the hinges and the locking mechanism and the door will simply fall out with no damage to the goods in the safe.
Simple but effective.

------------------
AAARRRRRHHH! My beautiful eyes! It burns!
The goggles do nothing!AAARRRRRHHH!

PYRO500
October 22nd, 2001, 06:03 PM
the problem with trying brute force on a bank vault door is that that is the most reenforced part of the safe, also many safes have glass backs that when any kind of heat or shock is applied shatter and prevents the safe from being opened except by a torch, speaking of witch what about using an oxy acetylene torch?

------------------
"Death may come from above, but terror most certainly comes from below."

kingspaz
October 22nd, 2001, 06:16 PM
ahahahhahah.....you open the safe and all thats left is charcoal where to $2 000 000 in notes was sitting!! it could work if most of the safe was full of gold although some of the gold may melt together. actually depends what size safe...

CragHack
October 22nd, 2001, 07:25 PM
Nah trying to use a oxy/acet torch would take way to long. Gong through the top would be the most fruitful. Does anyone know sensor layouts and shit when considering going through the top of the safe. Like are there sensors imbedded in the concrete, or are they just attched?

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

zaibatsu
October 22nd, 2001, 07:37 PM
When I worked in a bank for work experience (read as slave labour) they let me into the main sections (cashiers, safe, counting room) even though they didn't know I was coming! The security was very lax, the tills never added up right, but the safe was fucking huge. There were two safes in the place I worked, one that dealt with money, big huge bags of notes and coins, and one that dealt with wills, safety deposit boxes etc. You would have to be careful that you got the right safe.

The safe door was pretty big, and you had to put two different codes in before you could open it. However, there was a night drop slot, where you could drop bags of notes in at night, and it would drop down to the main section. This was mainly for businesses, but the chute can't be that strong, maybe theres a way to expand it?

------------------
Handguns don't kill people... Half as well as full-auto
Visit me at www.surf.to/eliteforum (http://www.surf.to/eliteforum)

Mick
October 23rd, 2001, 12:55 PM
somehow i doubt you can just "tunnel" your way thru the top of a bank safe.
i mean seriously how stupid do you think the people are that design these things are?

the key to it all is robbing a bank that is in an out-of-the-way town, and one that is not a commercial(spelling?) bank, and a bank thats in an older-style(1940's?) building.

that way you are more then likely going to find an older safe, a safe that wasn't built with todays technology in mind, and a safe that doesn't have steel walls (like the door)

non-commercial banks, in little towns, in old buildings.

[This message has been edited by Mick (edited October 23, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mick (edited October 23, 2001).]

CragHack
October 23rd, 2001, 02:33 PM
yes but if you go to an out of the way town (read, not alot of people) and rob an older bank in an older building, you are not going to find near the amount of money you would in a main stream bank vault.And if you are going to risk it, and rob a bank, why get sent to jail for a shit amount of money. Robbing big bank is same jail time as robbing small bank. Anyway, like i asked before. does anyone have any info on sensor placement and shit like that? do they put the sensors in random places in the concrete, or is there one just attached to the outside of it?

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

Ctrl_C
October 23rd, 2001, 05:02 PM
i wonder how hard it would be to disable the sensors. i mean, theres got to be loudspeakers or a phone line somewhere for an alarm right? find...snip...done. i think that the phone lines are special though, like they are always connected and constantly submit tones to tell it its still connected. you could still splice into it, find the info i was sending, record it, cut the line and play it back on a loop. they may also have cellular versions. not quite sure how to circumvent this, maybe some sort of active cancellation?

Mick
October 24th, 2001, 11:48 AM
i think you would greatly surprized at how much money small town banks have

lets say you pick a town of 1000 people
lets assume that 500 of these are kids(no money).
and lets assume that each family(2 adults) has 2000 in the bank,
1000 - 500 = 500 / 2 = 250 * 2000 == $500,000

thats not bad for a small town bank if you ask me.

also, big time commercial banks don't store as much money in the vault as one might think.
the majority of money now days is electronic, banks only hold a limited ammount for events like the electronic systems failing etc..
and what money they do collect from the public is removed on a daily basis.


so if you were going to rob a bank, a small town job would be better.
and if you get caught i think you'll find the sentence you get for robbing a commercial bank is a fucking shit load more then what you would get from a little "no-brand" bank.

and the fact remains, if you get caught robbing a little small town bank, your to stupid to rob a big bank (probably even to stupid to rob 7-11)

CragHack
October 24th, 2001, 01:44 PM
wow you present a couple of very good points Mick. thank you very much. as for teh recording and the looping of a tone... ha fat chance. you would have to be someone very very special to do that. thank you all again.

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

bangandow
October 26th, 2001, 04:35 PM
err... i may be mistaken on this, but banks dont keep the money at the bank do they? isnt that why theyre federally insured? banks take the money you deposit and invest it so they can make a profit. that 500,000 in that small town bank will bring a nice amount of interest for the owner if he invests it. they keep enough in the bank to perform daily transactions, but not as much as youre talking about...

nbk2000
October 26th, 2001, 06:06 PM
Banks are only required to have like 5% of their total deposits available as cash. The rest of it is invested or loaned out.

Since all banks are FDIC chartered and insured, they are all covered by federal law, hence all bank robberies are investigated by the FBI and are Federal, not state, crimes.

So, you get the same amount of time for robbing a little bank, as a big bank.

But you're much more likely to get a big haul from a commercial bank in a city than some little hick town mom-and-pop bank in the middle of nowhere.

After all, the commercial bank receives all the cash receipts from local stores to be counted before being distributed. So a big bank, on a holiday, could have a half million or more. More money than you'd find in an entire small town.

Firstly, never bother with the teller windows. You'd only get a few thousand from each one, plus there's dye bombs and trackers hidden in bait money bundles.

The money from the vault is what you want. You get it right after the armored car drops it off, before they have time to break it down. You get it all at once and split.

Use a folding grocery cart like old-ladies use to carry the sacks out. You can carry more that way than you could using both hands, while leaving your other hand free.

You use a hand-held metal detector to scan the money for any trackers that may be in the money sacks once you're away from the scene. Not likely, but a possibility.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

mongo blongo
October 27th, 2001, 01:03 AM
You will never guess what I just seen!
Around the corner from where I live (UK)there used to be a Barclays (SP) Bank and they have just shut down. They have a safe of some kind out on the street with tape around it! Me and my mate just had a look at it. It has some fuckin HUGE hinges on the door! There is no kind of combination lock on it though! It has two handles on it which are turnable. The doors on it are closed so I don't know how thick they are but looking at the hinges they are probably quite thick!
It also has some other bits of metal on it but i don't know what they are.
I don't know much about this kinda stuff but if any of you guys want to ask me to have a look for something on it or what ever reply SOON and I will look! (this won't be out on the street for long I predict!)

------------------
AAARRRRRHHH! My beautiful eyes! It burns!
The goggles do nothing!AAARRRRRHHH!

nbk2000
October 27th, 2001, 02:19 AM
Look for any holes!

I'd assume there might be some for alarms or what not, thus there'd be an opening for pouring "stuff" in.

This is why it's good to have a digital camera, so you can take pictures and upload them when rare opprotunities like this arise.

------------------
"I have begun evil, I shall end evil. That is the end that awaits me."

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 files and videos.

mrloud
October 27th, 2001, 06:05 AM
Keyholes are probably located behind some sort of swinging flap of metal. Although it is possible the thing is electronically locked.

CragHack
October 27th, 2001, 04:14 PM
was the whole safe metal? or was it a metal door with 5 other concrete sides? what were the demensions of the safe? i know you said it was big but you idea of big might be a little different then mine. you know what i mean? any other info you can think of would also be helpful.

------------------
"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

mongo blongo
October 28th, 2001, 02:49 PM
Just had a look!
The whole safe is made of steel and is about 4m high, 2m wide and 1.5m thick (estimate).
There are no holes that I can see. I found out what the bits of metal are. They are, as mrloud said "swinging flaps of metal" where the keyholes are located. They are very stiff and it takes a bit of force to open them.
When I get some time I will draw a picture but forgive me for asking, how would i go about putting the pic in this thread? What format should i use? etc.


------------------
AAARRRRRHHH! My beautiful eyes! It burns!
The goggles do nothing!AAARRRRRHHH!

[This message has been edited by mongo blongo (edited October 28, 2001).]

PYRO500
October 28th, 2001, 04:02 PM
Don't get us a drawing, get us a picture either a digital picture or a scanned pic. and for god's sake don't post a bmp in a thread! use jpg with less than 75% compression please.

------------------
"Death may come from above, but terror most certainly comes from below."

mongo blongo
October 29th, 2001, 03:22 PM
Sorry, I got no digital camera or scanner and I haven't got the money to get one!
I don't even know if it is still there!
I WILL take some pics with a normal camera if it is still there but getting it on to the computer is a problem.

------------------
AAARRRRRHHH! My beautiful eyes! It burns!
The goggles do nothing!AAARRRRRHHH!

angelo
October 29th, 2001, 08:23 PM
If anybody lives in Australian and has Fox Tel, you may want to watch Discovery channel tonight at 20:00. Its all about what banks do to keep money safe.

I might tape it but I have no way of transferring it to the computer.

------------------
angelo's place (http://hop.to/angelo) | have a good link? add it here (http://pub16.bravenet.com/freelink/show.php?usernum=1307442656) | go to the OZ Forum (http://pub75.ezboard.com/bozforum97164)