hydrazine!!

[mongo blongo]

i am now able to get access to 2,4 dinitrophenylhydrazine!
is there any way of rendering hydrazine from it?
if so does anyone have any ideas?

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i like blowing shit up

[Dhzugasvili]

You really don't want to be messing around with hydrazine...even if you treat it with respect. Dude, you will fuck up the rest of your life with some of these things even WITH THE SLIGHTEST MISTAKE!!! There are so many better explosives than astrolite to be experimenting with. Don't get anywhere near hydrazine! Unless you want to get cancer of course.

[John456]

Even if you overlook the fact thats its very poisoness and very carcinogenic its very very flammable. This stuff belongs with benzene and other nasty carcinogens, you really dont want to mess with it.

[atropine]

when i used to be interested in explosives i did have access to as much hydrazine as i could nick off with. Some one i know works in a powerplant and hydrazine was kept in massive tankers. But i never actually wanted to get the stuff cos i feared getting cancer as well as all the other nasties that are asociated with this volatile chemical. I really would prefere if only highly experienced ppl dealt with this stuff. There are somany othe more powerfull and safer explosives than astrolite etc. well actually hmtd is another id add to my list of "AVOID" but thats just cos i was a stupid dick and put a CM in my pocket.

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all wize men have unwize fantasies < ^ >

[mongo blongo]

yea ive been doing more research on it and i don't like the sound of it. i agree that it is not worth fucking about with! cancer is something i dont need. it is intresting stuff though!

[a_bab]

I have about 150 grams of hidrazine sulfate, but after I heard about it's carcinogenic properties, I gave up playing with this nasty stuff...

________________________
http://move.to/pyromania

[PYRO500]

Hydrazine in my opinion is more useful as a chemical weapon than an explosive reagent.

[cutefix]

Working or handling with dangerous chemicals is an inevitable reality that any chemist or aspiring worker in the field of chemistry will have to face squarely..I emphasize that there is no royal road to knowledge;that is, you have to take risk in order to learn more about something that arouse your interest..If all those achievers were cowards ,explosive chemistry as well as other chemical specialities could not have reached its levels of sophistication that benefited society tremendously. If we know our subject well,then that knowledge will deliver us from the fear due to ignorance.
Hydrazine is just one of toxic chemicals that should not be abhorred but respected.Knowing its characteristics ,its uniqueness,and usefulness in certain application,as well as the safety procedures required in its handling-then we can let go our apprehensions and continue to work with it,so that that will promote more learning and improve knowledge!
We have to reach some kind of” chemical maturity” in order to achieve our goals!

[Tony Montana]

HERE HERE!!!!!!

[PYRO500]

You should handle Hydrazine as careful as you can! one mistake could be your last, this stuff does not rank with benzene, it ranks up there with dioxin! I pulled this from a NIOSH web site

"NIOSH recommends as part of its carcinogen policy that the "most protective" respirators be worn for hydrazine at concentrations above 0.03 ppm."

if you mess with this stuff get a moon suit or build a glove box! Don't kill youself making a crappy explosive. by all means mix and distill and filter this liquid but only do so if you have all the equipment needed to use it safely and the skill to use it safely, if you have accidents with chems occasionally then this isn't the best stuff for you to play with.

[cutefix]

When I was experimenting with hydrazine 10 years back, I did have a not so airtight suit and gas mask which I feel suffocating,but I have to bear it while mixing astrolite G in small quantities in the field . The ingredients were premeasured in the lab It was 300 ml anhydrous hydrazine in a reagent bottle and 600 grams fine ammonium nitrate in triple layer of plastic sachetsI used about 3 liter glass jar and stirring rod. It created so much foam that I have to add the AN gradually .When it was clear I poured it in a small mound of sand then let it absorb for some time while I remove my mask And rinsed the glassware with water and placed it in a bag.I waited for an hour then.I used a military blasting cap connected to about 10 feet of time fuse.I lit the fuse with a borrowed fuse lighter. and went into my car with the mask and glassware and drove some distance away.When it went off I notice that its sound is not as loud as I expected but produced little to no smoke at all.but a cloud of sand,soil and stones were flung upward. When I returned, the crater was about 3 feet deep and 5 feet wide.Maybe the sand was loose or something like that.in order to create such a crater size.

[Mr Cool]

My advice for handling nasty things like hydrazine: never let it dry out. This reduces the dust hazard. Wear a dust respirator just in case. You can get these specifically designed for hazardous chemicals from chemical suppliers. The cost is small, especially when compared with your life.
Wear thick rubber gloves, two pairs if this still allows you to move well enough in them.
Faces shield, not goggles, to protect your full face from splashes. These can be picked up for less than £10, well worth it.
Wear a lab coat AND a waterproof covering over the top, and have a bucket of clean water next to you to immediately wash off any spills before it soaks in, and then go and run it under the tap.
Excellent ventillation is also recommended.
Make sure you know where the chemical is at all times, e.g. all glasswear that has been in contact with it and is not being used should be put together, on a disposable plastic sheet to stop any spills from getting on your workplace. If you have finished with a piece of equipment, put it into a bucket of a solution that neutralises the chemical. Mop up any spills as soon as possible to stop them getting spread around, or before you forget about it. Don't do it in the middle of a vigorous reaction as this could be dangerous, but do it at the first possible opportunity.
When finished, take off your clothes and put them straight into the washing machine, twice if you want. Wash the gloves and face shield in a neutralising solution, then with water.

That's about it I think. All that and a healthy share of common sense should keep you safe.

[deezs]

I totally agree with Cutefix, and Mr Cool. I hve a recipe, how to make hidrazine sulphate, if somebody interested.
chemicals needed:
NaOCl
NH4OH
H2SO4
Cl2
glue

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"Don't belive anything, just because there is a good proverb for it."

"To avoid injury in a battle, watch them from the nearer hill."

[mr.evil]

Tell me please :)

[rikkitikkitavi]

better than glue is EDTA. Both serves as complex binding agents(chelates) for metall ions that will cause a catalytic decomposiotion of N2H4 in the reaction vessel. EDTA binds stronger to metallions than the compounds in the glue.

EDTA can be bought from chemical suppliers, and is also found in water purifing additives for aquariums but at less concentration.

/rickard

[vulture]

Hydrazine is known to cause cancer by rats, but until now, not a single case of humane cancer was identified with hydrazine as the cause. It's indicated as a weak carcinogen.
LD50 = 129mg/kg

IIRC correctly, NH3 is as poisonous as hydrazine...

<small>[ June 14, 2002, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: vulture ]</small>

[VX]

That's very interesting.

When applying to different University’s earlier this year I attended several 'open days'. One of these, included a practical demonstration entitled sound and light. (The title was in French but I can't remember the French spelling, something like somme et lumier). And was themed upon various explosions... it was very good.

Anyway, as one of the experiments the bloke poured some liquid NO2 (N2O4) into a round bottom flask. This started to boil instantly releasing clouds of NO2, causing a red cloud around the whole bench. At this point he proceeded to add a few drops of hydrazine sulphate... The reaction was quite spectacular, a three foot jet of flame shooting out of a 10mm flask is quite interesting to see :)

The demonstration lasted about 10 mins and was packed with explosions literally on every few seconds, and the guy talked it through as he went. Unfortunately he had a very strong Russian accent, and I couldn't understand most of what he said :mad:

[SMAG 12B/E5]

I understand the reluctance of some to handle hydrazine but beleive the fear of toxic chemicals has been overblown by the enviro-freaks in power. Use caution, but do not allow the uneducated and unwashed fanatics to deter you from serious research. I am an old fart that was using Astrolite in Nam and some nastier chemicals in civilian life and am still here. Today's fear of "toxic" chemicals borders on hysteria and serves the agenda of the anti-science/anti-industrial groups! Hydrazine is a chemical with an "acceptable" risk.

[Sam]

I saw this site when i searched google for "hydrazine".
It is rather in depth with lots of information on safety.
However, if I were you I would do everything in my power to avoid it at all costs, for several reasons.

<a href="http://www.itcilo.it/english/actrav/telearn/osh/ic/302012.htm" target="_blank">http://www.itcilo.it/english/actrav/telearn/osh/ic/302012.htm</a>

[Bitter]

We used to use hydrazine at school for organic chemistry experiments. That was going back some time, but how dangerous is it *really* if they let 16 year old school kids use it ?

[A_W]

I have to agree with Bitter. (it is my opinion that) The toxicity of hydrazine is strongly overrated [/overdone?].

Poorly translated from my encyclopedia:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Hydrazine will, when inhaled, irritate membranes and respiratory tract. When exposure is strong, temporarly damages to the nerve system may occurre, wich leads to shaking. Animal testings has shown that, when administered in large doses, cancer and/or liver damages has occurred. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">

[Zambosan]

Like any other substance, it's the total exposure that makes the difference.

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 01:00 AM: Message edited by: Zambosan ]</small>

[mongo blongo]

Bitter- Are you sure it was Hydrazine? I ask this because 2,4 dinitrophenylhydrazine is used in organic chemistry to test for an aldehyde or ketone I think. I thought that only universities had it. If it was hydrazine then you should have borrowed some. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[cutefix]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I have to agree with Bitter. (it is my opinion that) The toxicity of hydrazine is strongly overrated [/overdone?].</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">THis MSDS thing is overrated and was designed for non handlers of chemicals to be aware of the dangers. :D and not the regular chemical experimenters.

Yeah,Its damn right….This” extremely toxic”warning was an exaggeration so as to discourage would be explosive experimenters to use it for highly powerful and easy to make binary explosive.Even this Dr. Hurst is joining the fray in discouraging people to experiment with it stated in his yarchive posts.
If its that fatal, I could have died several years ago,as I inhaled fumes from it a lot of times…
And if you are aware about the anhydrous hydrazine about its extreme flammability(that literally it will seekout any open flame nearby ) in order to get combusted;then an explosive enthusiast must be knowledgeable about its peculiar behavior.In addition he should exercise utmost care in handling and using it.Then the experience of seing this material perform very interesting explosive behavior will be worthwhile plus the bonus that you are still in one piece and exhilarated at the performance. :D :D
The main problem nowadays is its very difficult to obtain the anhydrous materials which gives the best performance in explosive application..

<small>[ June 27, 2002, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: cutefix ]</small>

[megalomania]

If you are that interested mr.evil, I have a procedure to make hydrazine on my website at <a href="http://roguesci.org/megalomania/synth/synthesis2.html#hydrazine" target="_blank">http://roguesci.org/megalomania/synth/synthesis2.html#hydrazine</a> which is an adaptation of the procedure to make hydrazine sulfate from Organic Synthesis. You can view the procedure at the Organic Synthesis website by using one of the new specialty search engines here at The Forum. The synthesis of hydrazine sulfate has also been posted by nbk2000.

[Bitter]

It was definitely hydrazine- an opaque (I think) yellow liquid. I did'nt take any becuase I didn't know what it could be used for at the time.
Edit : The internet was almost unheard of in those days, so no EWF either.

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Bitter ]</small>

[cutefix]

The really pure grade hydrazine is a clear liquid like water.If its cloudy its full of impuritites and unsafe for binary explosive or even propellant composition.I think this is one reason why fatal accidents occur in using this interesting material.
For chemical specs and Properties check this out:
<a href="http://www.hydrazine.com/hydrazine/Propellants/Products.asp" target="_blank">http://www.hydrazine.com/hydrazine/Propellants/Products.asp</a>

[mongo blongo]

2,4 dinitrophenylhydrazine is yellow to orange in colour.

[cutefix]

It should be, because the presence of aromatic groups will add some color to the resulting nitrate.The phenyl group have cyclic unsaturated carbon atom -C=C –C=C-C=C-capable of absorbing certain wavelength of light that will be responsible for the color.
If you notice also aromatic explosives like Picric Acid and TNT are yellow to orange in color.But heterocylic explosives like RDX is colorless to white in color.
The mother substance phenylhydrazine changes from colorless yellowish material(sometimes even to brown) when exposed to air or light.Other non aromatic hydrazine does not show this behavior.
Its synthesis is even described in these URL;
<a href="http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phenylhydrazine.html" target="_blank">http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/phenylhydrazine.html</a>
This aromatic hydrazine is an exception to the rule.

I am not aware if this hydrazobenzene material was ever used in binary explosive. But,indeed in the presence of nitrate ion it will form a nitro group with many isomers and an negative oxygen balance because of the presence of the bulky benzene ring.Therefore the theoretical energetic performance is inferior if compared with that of normal hydrazine N2H4 which when converted to its nitrate will have excess oxygen(positive OB) and no carbon that is responsible for its excellent performance.
Therefore this is not included in the category for exotic fuels for liquid explosives or propellants.
Its importance is for the manufacure of dyestuffs,photographic chemicals and as reagent analytical chemistry.
BTW, dinitrophenylhydrazine is another compound already containing nitro groups,and cannot be considered in similar category as the basic hydrazine material methioned in the URL for propellants <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 29, 2002, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: cutefix ]</small>

[cutefix]

Oh,BTW mongoI remember in your first post,that you want to break this dinitrophenylhydrazine into hydrazine and nitrate.
Does it contain water?It can be an explosive if water is taken out.
Its OB is about –88% while TNT is –74%
Why spare an effort in removing nitro groups when instead you just add more oxidizer to make it into a useful explosive.Say one part of DNPH to two part of ammonium nitrate?
You will then invent a new binary explosive in the category of amatol.Then adding 10-20% aluminum will improve its performance as well! :cool:
Looks theoretically better than rock a rock .
How about that?
:D

[mongo blongo]

Cutefix- I didn't think of that! That's a damn good idea!
That was a long time ago when I was in college so I no longer have access to the DNPH. :(
It shouldn't be that hard to get some for those among us who are in college doing organic chemistry. If anyone could obtain some then it would be interesting to experiment with it. The DNPH I used was in solution but I *think* I have seen it stored as a red powder which is then dissolved in deionized water?
When handling this stuff, be careful not to get it on your skin. It stains your hands yellow like HNO3 and you have to wait weeks for it to go. :mad: