MMAN

[DBSP]

I've made MMAN recently. I followed the process on Mr cools page except tat I substituted the Pb(NO3)2 with NH4NO3 and everything went as it should untill it came to drying it. The drying part is very anoying. I washed it in cold acetone and got the crystals out and put them on a paper to dry. All the acetone evapourated quickly but it still wasn't dry so I put them in the oven four 5h at 60 degrees celsius. It still wasn't dry but they had at least gotten flaky. Then I put them on our wood powered pan? (the thing you use when making a fire to get the house warm, not a fireplace.). The crystals got noticably dryer so I tried detonating it in a cap (30-06 case) I used about 1g MMAN and 2g HMTD as primary. The HMTD went off but the MMAN had just been pressed to the bottom off the shell. After a few hours the brass shell started to get green around the MMAN. Could it be an acid sesidue left in the MMAN. Isn't it properly washed or what?
Has anyone else made MMAN?
If you only look at it's propertys they are quite good 6600 @1,4g/cc, and very easy to make. And inexpensive. And it doesn't require any odd chemicals. I've had exactly the same problems with hexamethylenetetraminedinitrate wich I made when there was a thead abut it going on at the old forum, I still have the sample left in my fridge but it has captured a lot of moisture from the air because it is allmost swimming in it's jar

[Mr Cool]

That's the trouble with nitrate salts - they tend to be hygroscopic. Ideally they should be dried in a vaccuum dessicator over H2SO4.
The one nitrate salt explosive that is easy to make (common ingredients) that is not hygroscopic is urea nitrate - that might be a better choice, depending on the intended use.
I remember you asking about using NH4NO3 instead of Pb(NO3)2 - did it work OK?

Ah, my website. I think it's probably time for another update...

[DBSP]

It worked perfectly and the sensitivity didn't exactly seem to be that high. :D
Nitrourea would be good but that recuires nitric wich most people don't have. However I'll be investing in a still within a month or so so I just might test it later.

[Mr Cool]

If you don't mind bad yields, you can use a mixture of excess NH4NO3 dissolved in HCl to make urea nitrate. But the yield probably won't be above 50%.

[DBSP]

Well with only those chems needed I don't mind bad yields at all since they both are so cheap. :) And when you have urea nitrate it's only one step left to nitro urea and that step only requires H2SO4 wich allso is relativily cheap! :) This is something I must try!

[DBSP]

Mr cool I can't seem to find the Carbon atom in the reaction.
NH4NO3+HCl-->CH4N2O I assume the reaction is carried out in two steps(in the same go though)s.
CH4N2O+HNO3+NH3+Cl-->CH5N3O4+?

I know the reaction is kinda fucked up but I hope you get the point. Were is the C from?

[Mr Cool]

Ah no, you use the HCl + NH4NO3 instead of the HNO3. You can't make urea nitrate with just those two chemicals, you still need the urea!

CO(NH2)2 + NH4NO3 + HCl --> CO(NH2)2*HNO3 + NH4Cl

The ammonium chloride stays in solution, but the UN pptes out since it's not very soluble. Use a slight excess of NH4NO3.

[DBSP]

Ah thought it looked i bit odd. You can buy the urea at the pharmacy here so I'll definately try it!

[xoo1246]

Nothing to do with topic:
DBSP: I detonated my 430 grams charge today(AN/NM/AL), this b.c. worked better. Blew off a tree (20cm diameter). I read at some swedish military paper that one should use 250 grams of plastic explosive on such an object. Maybe it was overkill :p

[piro]

Sorry to bring up an old topic but did anyone try to make urea nitrate using HCl and NH4NO3? what ratios should i use if i try it out?\

Oh and what ratios did you use for making MMAN with NH4NO3 DBSP?

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: piro ]</small>

[kingspaz]

piro, you can work out the ratios from the chemical equation mr cool posted. you should read some chemistry books and then you will be able to do it fine. i would do it but i'm nakkered and i'd make lots of big mistakes probably!

[piro]

My chemistry skills suck to much for me to confidently calculate it. I learning though. :cool:

Can someone help me out here?

[kingspaz]

ok, i'm almost dead with lack of sleep but i'll have a go. i'd like someone else to point out errors please.
ok, start with the chemical reaction:
CO(NH2)2 + NH4NO3 + HCl --&gt; CO(NH2)2*HNO3 + NH4Cl
work out the molecular mass for each reactant.
CO(NH2)2 = 12 + 16 + (14+1)*2 = 58gmol^-1 (grams per mole)
NH4NO3 = 14 + 4 + 14 +(16*3) = 80gmol^-1
HCl = 1 + 35.5 = 36.5gmol^-1
36.5 is the lowest number so divide all the numbers by 36.5.
58/36.5 = 1.59
80/36.5 = 2.19
36.5/36.5 = 1
this is the ratios in their lowest terms (can be used to work out the amount of the other two chems if you have so much of one chemical) but you can use:
58g urea
80g ammonium nitrate
36.5g HCl - i think that would be 36.5/30 * 100 = 121.7g 30% HCl. i think....i'm sure thats wrong actually...fuck knows....i'm far too tired!

[Mr Cool]

Oh, OK then :rolleyes:

Try 60g of urea dissolved in 75mL of water, added to 90g of NH4NO3 in 120mL of 30% HCl or 240mL of 15% HCl. Those volumes for the HCl are approximate since I don't know the densities of the solutions. The urea nitrate should precipitate...

Edit: wow, freaky. Looks like me and kingspaz have some sort of quantum link making us post at exactly the same time...

<small>[ July 19, 2002, 05:43 PM: Message edited by: Mr Cool ]</small>