lockpicking

[stanfield]

Just to say that I bought some lockpick at <a href="http://www.southord.com/" target="_blank">http://www.southord.com/</a> and this source is reliable even for international shipment...

pretty toys & works fine ! (but most of pick today can't be lockpicked by this method... shit !)

bye

<small>[ April 06, 2002, 02:49 AM: Message edited by: stanfield ]</small>

[CiaAssAssian]

what ya get stanfield , and what method is it that doesn't work anymore?

[Machiavelli]

I'm somewhat unsure about SouthOrd, the first time I ordered picks from them I got them pretty fast and the quality of the picks was ok.
The next time I ordered I received nothing, after about 1,5 months I contacted them but never received a reply. But they didn't charge me for it, so it wasn't such a big deal.

And now it's not important to me anymore, as a good friend of mine is selling picksets now, and he has a better selection than SO. And he takes Euros of course :cool:

Btw, Stanfield, if I understand that strange sentence of yours correctly you state that most locks nowadays can't be picked by that method. What brings you to that conclusion? What locks are you having problems with?

Personally, I'm an expert lockpicker and I can say that I open most locks with standard picks. Of course there are some high security locks on the market that are difficult or impossible to open with this method, but they're not in wide use, there are other methods to defeat them and often they're only fitted to the front door but not to the back door :D

[stanfield]

lockpicking some picks is hard (I'm novice but it's hard...)
Some picks are pretty easy to unlock (in 5-10 second) but most of current picks today are unlockable...
could you give some of your "method" ? have you got some good books on lockpicking ?

thanx

[Machiavelli]

After reading your posting, it seems like your biggest problem is that you're trying to open picks. That's a big mistake because your tools are designed for opening locks, not for opening picks. :)

Now for opening locks, the first thing to keep in mind is that lockpicking is about practice. Start with the cheapest locks you can get and practice on them, try to open them by raking them and by setting each single pin and try to understand what you're doing.
Picture the lock in your mind, which pin is at which hight, how many pins are inside the lock, etc.

Of course you need to know the theory of lockpicking first, one of the best books about this is the so called MIT Guide.

<a href="http://home.t-online.de/home/lockpicking/MIT_F/crochetage.html" target="_blank">http://home.t-online.de/home/lockpicking/MIT_F/crochetage.html</a> French
<a href="http://home.t-online.de/home/lockpicking/MIT_D/mit-guid.htm" target="_blank">http://home.t-online.de/home/lockpicking/MIT_D/mit-guid.htm</a> German
<a href="http://www.lysator.liu.se/mit-guide/mit-guide.html" target="_blank">http://www.lysator.liu.se/mit-guide/mit-guide.html</a> English
<a href="http://www.lockpicking.nl" target="_blank">www.lockpicking.nl</a> should have a dutch one, but I can't reach the server at the moment

It would be useful if you could maybe post a picture of the lock you're working on that you can't open or at least tell me the name and maybe what the key looks like. Same goes for the tools you're trying to open it with.

Btw, if you're a novice you really shouldn't state things like that most locks nowadays are not pickable (at least that would be a possible translation of your raped English), just because you can't do it and because the manufacturer says it doesn't mean shit.

[nbk2000]

I found, in my experience, that most common household locks (slage (SP?), kwik-set, and stanley) open in a few seconds if you use a rake pick.

That's the pick that looks like this:

<PRE>

__/\/\/\
_______)

</PRE>

You use a can of WD-40 with the little red straw attachment to hose the
shit out of the locks internals before you rake the pins rapidly. The WD-40 loosens up the pins so they don't stick, plus it makes it much more quiet to rake.

I could open some locks faster with the rake than with the key!

If you run across a Medico, DOM, Kaba, or similiar "High-Security" lock, don't waste your time trying to pick it. You're not going to be able to do it.

Rather, look for an easier way in, or blast it if you have to.

<small>[ April 06, 2002, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[green beret]

Does anyone have "Modern High Security Locks and how to open them" by Steven Hampton.

I have a pick set and a pick gun, I still need more practice with both though, but I really love the gun, sometimes a door will open with just one or two clicks.

NBK; I also use WD40 with the staw attachment when raking, I have also tried graphite powder.

When damage and a little noise is acceptable, I dont bother picking I use the old crow bar, most of the time the door frames come away like stale bread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

It make me laugh, some places put on these top quality pick proof deadlocks yet the doors and frames are very brittle and weathered....

[Jack Ruby]

I just recently got a pick set.

It is more for the Challenge then for the sake of picking locks. If I need in I will get in... and I probableywon't pick the lock

[Machiavelli]

Don't believe the hype NBK, I've opened quite a few "high security" dimple locks from DOM and KABA by simple raking, took me less than 30 seconds each. It doesn't work on every lock but it's always worth a try. One tool especially useful for raking these locks is SO pick SP12
<a href="http://www.southord.com/catalog.asp?cat=locksmith&rowstart=10" target="_blank">http://www.southord.com/catalog.asp?cat=locksmith&rowstart=10</a>

Green Beret, I have a photocopy of that book but it's rather lame. If you're an advanced lockpicker you really don't need it because you can get the infos you need by getting the product descriptions and using your brain and if you're a novice then you shouldn't fuck with the locks described. Then there's Steven's usual kung-fu bullshit and he refuses to describe tubular picks for security reasons.
Waste of money imho.

[nbk2000]

Tubular locks...security? Nigger please! :rolleyes:

A small flat blade chisel and a large pair of vise grips makes short work of them.

You first use the chisel to pry up the rim that covers the pins. Next, use the vise-grips as a hammer on the chisel to knock out the pins. Then you grap the center post with the vise-grips (channel locks work better) and twist it till it breaks off. Then use the chisel to reach into the lock and operate the bolt retractor.

:p

There's many different types of DOM and KABA locks. So I'd imagine that there's at least a few that are vulnerable. I'm also sure there's some that CAN'T be fucked with in any reasonable amount of time.

I'm mean, sure, if you have all day and infinite patience, you can pick any lock. But if I can't do it within a minute or less, I'm walking away to try another route.

One thing you can do once you have a lock open, is tamper with it to make it easy for you to get in later. You remove the lock from the door and replace it with a similar looking lock face so anyone walking by won't notice a hole in the door while you're working on the lock.

You disassemble it and remove all the pins except the one closest to the front of the keyway.

Reassemble and replace in the door.

Now, you have only to use the "master key" to lift the solitary pin to the correct height to open the lock. You just buy a key blank for the lock and file it down with a sloped angle from the tip to the body.

<img src="http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/Key-Blank_Sloped.gif" alt="" />

Cost, $1. :D

The lock will still sound normal when the original key is inserted, and will even "lock" the door, but since all the pins but one have been removed, it's trivial for you to open when needed.

Just slowly slide your "master" key in and it'll lift the pin to the proper height.

Example would be the chemical closet at the schools science lab. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

This way, you only have to risk getting caught picking the lock once. After that, you can just walk up and put in a key anytime you need in.

[stanfield]

what about this :
<img src="http://www.lockpickers.com/lp/pistol.gif" alt="" />
anyone have one of these thing ? Is it easy with them ?

thanx

[johnn 99]

Yes, they work fine, and are less of a hassle than electric pickguns. But you can make one out of coathanger wire that will work just as well, in about 10 minutes. So why wast the $60?

[stanfield]

heu...... have you got some schema ? I don't know how these pistol works (juste a little bit...)

thanx !

[nbk2000]

There's several lockpicking books on the FTP. Download them.

[skeleton_keys]

I've been supporting myself in my spare time these last five years by doing locksmithing jobs. I open homes, buildings, cars, safes, you name it. Here's some advice about lockpicking. . .a good way to learn is to buy yourself a pinning kit, perhaps from Lockmasters in Kentucky ( <a href="http://www.lockmasters.com/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lockmasters.com/default.htm</a>), and a cheap deadbolt of the same brand as the pinning kit you bought. Also buy a desktop vice, so you can simply clamp the deadbolt in the vice at home and practice picking whenever you want to. Once you get good at picking it, use your kit to change the pin combination inside the lock, and start over again. Never waste your money on one of those "Lockpicking School" boxes for $100. All they give you is a mounting block and five cheap locks.

Southord is good for lockpicks, but you can also try ProLok and especially Lockmasters. They have *beautiful* equipment, and most of what they sell is tools to help you defeat locks. Go to a place like <a href="http://www.firemarktools.com" target="_blank">www.firemarktools.com</a> for forcible entry equipment, I've used them several times. They've got quality stuff at good prices, and fast shipping.

When it comes to opening up businesses, you can save yourself the trouble of learning to pick locks and just invest in an O-tool or mortise cylinder removal tool. An O-tool rips mortise locks right off the door, and the removal tool just shears off the set screws holding the lock in place so it can be unscrewed from the door. Most businesses out there have mortise cylinder locks (or rim cylinders), so whereas you may not be able to pick them all the time, you can *always* remove them with a little effort. A good O-tool only costs $65, and a mortise cylinder removal tool is usually less than $40.

If anybody here wants to discuss lockpicking and security defeats in detail, feel free to e-mail me at skeleton_keys@hotmail.com. I don't mind newbies asking for lessons, either. I'm always willing to help whoever I can.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It's customary to provide URLs for any sites mention. I found the Lockmaster site, but was unable to find the ProLok site. Please provide it.

Also, anything that is to be shared is to be shared here where everyone can benefit from it, not just some newbie.

<small>[ April 08, 2002, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[stanfield]

ok, thanx...

[Machiavelli]

Do Prolok and Lockmasters sell to non-locksmiths? I always thought they'd stick to professionals.

[johnn 99]

Stanfield, I'm sorry. I have no way to post pictures etc. The book I have that shows this is called PICK GUNS Lock picking for spies, cops, and locksmiths. By john Minnery. Maybe someone who has this book would post the plans for you. I have been trying to find something on the web about them, with very little luck. Which is strange since they work at least as well as any of my store bought pick guns. OK. I found you a file on how to make one, but can't seem to link to it. So try this. Do a google search, for( LOCK CLICKER ) , click on the first hit, scroll down to file# 186 ( lockpicking using the lock clicker). I'm sorry, this was the best that I could do for you. GOOD LUCK!

<small>[ April 08, 2002, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: johnn 99 ]</small>

[Machiavelli]

In the upload folder of the ftp you'll find a file named snap pick.pdf
While the file John mentioned explains the thing quite nicely, this one has better pictures :)
With pickguns you need some practice to get the timing right when to apply tension.

Btw, John, one thing, it's much more convenient if you just copy the link of the file and paste it into your post. Like this:
<a href="http://www.frukt.org/TP44/fileareas/uXu/UXU-186.TXT" target="_blank">http://www.frukt.org/TP44/fileareas/uXu/UXU-186.TXT</a>
And I still like my Majestic pick gun better, it looks cooler :cool:

[johnn 99]

Yea, I like my pickgun to. For exactly the same reason, I also have a delco electric pick gun. But I shure enjoy the looks on ppls face when they realize that you can stroll right into their house with this gizmo you made from a coathanger. I will try that next time, Machiavelli. Unfortunately, I'm pretty computer illiterate, and this machine may as well use vacume tubes! Anyway, THANKS! P.S. Why won't my user name and password get me into the PDF?

<small>[ April 09, 2002, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: johnn 99 ]</small>

[Machiavelli]

If you can't get into the pdf, you might want to try to access the ftp :D
Pw und user are the same for all members, everything you need to know about the ftp can be found here:
<a href="http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000003;p=1" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000003;p=1</a>

[AfterRain]

iight, last night i hit up a lock smith truch and i got alot of picks, a hand drill,screw driver set,wire striper,shit i forget what eles... but hey fuck payin' for some shit :p ...so im set on picks for a while... now just gota do some research on lock pickin... o yea, i get pics up (if i can find my camera) of the shit i got... :cool:

[skeleton_keys]

Sorry about the lack of linkage, there. . .

<a href="http://www.pro-lok.com" target="_blank">www.pro-lok.com</a>
<a href="http://www.lockmasters.com" target="_blank">www.lockmasters.com</a>

And yes, Lockmasters does sell to non-locksmiths. The only catch is, you have to make up a name for your "locksmith company". They have a catalog request form online, and I've never needed to provide any kind of verification of my status to them. Don't go nuts, though. . .use it wisely, or you may spoil one of the best dang tool sources for people who actually need them.

Another good source for locksmithing info would be to sign up at <a href="http://www.locksmith.com," target="_blank">www.locksmith.com,</a> claiming you're a locksmith or student. They answer questions pretty readily, but can spot a crook or an amateur trying to scrape for info a mile away. So learn some of the lingo, and sound professional if you decide to post there. Don't ask "teech me to pick lox, pleez", or you'll be banned.

And I'll freely share what I know with anyone who is interested, but from experience, I can tell you that what I know about B&E so far takes up 116 pages (double-spaced) in 12 pt. Times New Roman. My book may hit the market soon. (Really! :) So if anyone wants to know anything specific, I'll be more than happy to help. But to spill my guts about everything I know in one post would probably destroy my hands from the sheer typing cramps. I know you're trying to keep it an open forum where everyone shares, it's just not practical for me to type that much all at once. So we cool?

[nbk2000]

We cool.

Naturally you'll inform us of the book when it's published?

You also know that we place copies of our files on the FTP, correct?

That's where my book is.

And don't worry about losing money. It's not like everyone who'd buy your book is a member of the Forum, so you'll still have plenty of people buying it.

[Jack Ruby]

I just took apart the mech ina lock. It had 5 pins I droped it down to 2. I will then gradually work up to five.

It just makes it seem a little more rewarding and also easier so I don't get frustrarted right off the bat and say fuck it.

I am figuring out the best way to *pop* the last pin.

[nbk2000]

When using a lifter pick, you don't want to have any particular order (IE: front to back) since the pins will bind in different order for every lock, depending on their tolerances.

I would apply some tension then use the feeler to determine which pin had the most resistance to my probing. That would be the first pin I'd work on. Once it cleared the shear line, I'd repeat with each of the other pins, finding the next one bound. Repeat as needed till the last pin.

Lube generously with WD-40. Some prefer to poke the hole dry, but I like it wet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D

[Jack Ruby]

Well I have been able to sucessfully pick the Lock with 4 pins in it repeatedly.

I have notice something odd. The pins al go up really easily except for one near the back. It seems in hind sight that *popping* that pin was the problem all along.

I am right now putting the lock back together with all of the pins in the orignal spots.

And you know what else... The lock still works.

[Zach]

jack, what kind of lock assembly did you buy? Machiavelli, do you have a scanner? I would really appreciate a close-up (not too close) scan of your lock pick(s). having a larger image to look at helps when you gotta grind your own.

z
[edit: i make my lockpicks out of street sweeper bristles, for those who cant (or wont) buy from a supplier)

<small>[ April 11, 2002, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Zach ]</small>

[Jack Ruby]

Pin Tumbler style. It is a actual DeadBolt Mech.
It works great

[mark]

Hey, if ou were new to lock picking, and you wanted to open basic, cheap locks, what tools would you sugest? The cheap, $14 4 pick set w/book, or the $44 pick gun? Or something home made? I want something fairly simple to use.

[Machiavelli]

Get the 4 pick set. These are all the pick you'll need in the beginning. They don't have plated handles so you might want to put heat shrink tubing over the ends. Also these sets usually don't have enough tension wrenches so you should make some of these yourself.
Pick guns are a nice toy but you should learn to pick properly before fucking around with them.
And if you want to go via homemade, take a look at the southord site, they have pictures of all their picks online so it's easy to copy them :D

But about wanting something simple to use, if you don't practice you won't do shit, it's the person that opens the lock, not the tool.

[Tyler_Durden]

What about raking?

Could someone briefly explain the technique?

It is my understanding that it is an action that provides similar results as a pick gun... and you stick the rake in, yank it out and turn, and hope the pins line up. Sounds like a fast method, but how often does it work, if at all?

I think I am going to get one of those cheap 5-piece ones to learn. I have done some on my own w/ improv picks, but nothing serious. I can never pick effectively/consistently/quickly with my homemade picks.

[mark]

Well, I just bought my 4 peice set yesterday, and it should be ariving soon. Now the question is, what should I practice on? Anything particularly useful to do with a lock pick? (Yeah, you could pick a lock. :rolleyes: NBK)

<small>[ April 30, 2002, 11:17 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[drstrangelove]

My experience with lockpicking is that all house locks are easy because usually there just the usual pin tumblers.
Has anyone had any luck picking late at night under presure with poor light and a unknown lock?
It is very easy to get to know a lock that you have around the house or bought and you quickly learn the touch required for that lock but other locks that are in poor condition and that you have not tried before are very difficult.
Now Australia is a country of thieves and all of our shops have heavy duty locks. The profile is so jagged and the angle so sharp that you cannot even get a pick in the lock, worse still is what they call the "bi loc" this has two sets of pins so you would need 2 picks at once. So buying picks to be a master criminal is just deluding yourself unless you want to stick to houses.

[mark]

But for those of us who are not criminals at all, just bored hooligans, they should be more than adequite.

[markkx]

<a href="http://www.advsecurity.com/picks.htm" target="_blank">http://www.advsecurity.com/picks.htm</a> sells the cheapest lock pick sets and books and stuff i've come across even cheaper than southord. they also take paypal so thats great

[drstrangelove]

Good fun no doubt!
I had great fun learning.
I felt cheated when I found out the locks I wanted to pick were unpickable and a waste of time and energy and was ten times easier to smash my way in just like always.

[green beret]

Hehe, bored hooligans, that brings back memories.

Yeah thats true strangelove, you can get to know a lock in your house or whatever, but picking a different lock in the field can be quite difficult.

Water treatment plants are a good place for real training, they have locks and alarm systems, but no-one really gives a fuck when the alarm goes off, this gives you a chance to get away, but also gives you the chance to get a feel for real locks, doors, alarms and security measures.

They also have some useful chems and equipment there, I recommend it for the beginner wanting to put his theory into practice, or anyone........

<small>[ May 01, 2002, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: green beret ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

Why pick the lock on a water treatment plant when you can just cut through the wall(well in my area the plant just has a a brick wall about 3 feet tall around the base of the plant with thin coragated steel sheets on steel I beams and there held on with just some bolts so I just cut the heads off the bolt and soldered the head of the bolts onto the steel so it looks normal except for a bolt that I drilled out and retaped so tha bolt in the center holds on the coragated steel sheet on. So when I want in I just remove the bolt and pull the sheet off and in I go one of the best things I found in there was a articulated snake camera on a pole so you can look into pipes to bad I couldn't remove it the monitor from which it is permaly connected :( was way to big to heave back to me house at 2 in the morning.

[AfterRain]

I have a question, The bolt on a lock (deadbolt) what type of metal is it made out of? And what type of saw would you need to cut it? 1 more question, you know then bolts on store doors such as 7-11 , the bolt that flips up out of the side of the door, what would be a good saw to cut this type of metal. ? O yea, all these saws must be manual powered, for the less noise. thanks again

<small>[ May 01, 2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: AfterRain ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

Well AfterRain the bolts at a 7-11 or that like are made of 5 or 6 hard steel plates rivited together so that when you think you cut throught it there 2-3 still left to hold the door shut and I would use a gas powered masondary saw with a grinding cutoff wheel or a 18-24volt battery opperated reciprcating saw.

[mark]

Id just pay the $1.11 for my big gulp.

[Wicked]

I'd just blow out the door and walk on in, or even melt the bolt itself (fire will ocurr probobly heh), I mean, it would be the more fun idea.

[Anthony]

You seem to misunderstand the purpose of discrete entry, Wicked.

Why would fire occur? Then again, maybe it would if you were trying to blast your way in with plaster+gasoline :rolleyes:

Lastly, B&E, most likely followed by burglary/theft isn't usally done for fun, so practical/workable solutions are usually preferred.

[drstrangelove]

Over here the doors are secured by the normal locks but the door inside frame has spoon shaped bars usually around three, these are defeated by putting your jemmy bar in between the 2 doors to get a gap with your co offender forcing down all the spoons and then the door should spring open.

[drstrangelove]

Something funny I just saw on the news was these guys have stolen a 11 ton truck ram raided the serice station chained up the ATM and drove off the funny part is the thing caught fire and the money was lost.The police even thought it was funny!
Another unusual robbery in my area was someone vandilized a ATM when the service guy showed up he was ambushed shot in the leg and forced to open to ATM.
How much do the think one off those ATMs would weigh?
I know they installed them with a big truck with a crane attachment so I doubt if even 4 people working together could lift one.

[Anthony]

Try this thread:

<a href="http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001111" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001111</a>

There's a post by mrloud having observed the installation of an ATM, with it being filled lead bricks once in position.

[green beret]

Sorry, I know this is getting a bit off topic...
A-bomb are you in Australia? Have you ever found any H202 in the plants? I have yet to find any but I still havent done a full search....
I know that there is almost always heaps of granular Chlorine. I have also found many other useful things. Email me if wish.

[mark]

My lock picks showed up today! Its so much fun! I can pick the lock on my husky safe, the trigger lock ive had lying around, and the cheap ace hardware padlock I bought. One question that still remains is, what the hell does the double ball pick good for? Also, does anyone lese know some fun locks to practice on?

[jelly]

mark... the double-ball pick is used for raking double-wafer cylinder locks (by sliding it in and out).

[mark]

Ah, thank you. I also was mistaken in my description of the pick. Its a single ball pick. Also, does anyone know what pick is best for opening master padlocks? I can open their trigger locks, but ive only opened the padlock once with pure luck.

[AfterRain]

A-Bomb,
Im tryin' to get my hands on a 18-24volt battery opperated reciprcating saw , but what type of blade would i need to get off the 7-11 bolts or a dead bolt lock ?

Could you use a burn bar to put a whole in the Key way and then by doin' that would you be able to onen the lock ? But if ya did this would the get rid of the driver pins? so that there either above the sheer line, or would that just cut the driver pins down , that rest of the driver pin would just drop on to of the key pins but it would be below the sheerline?
I saw this movie once where this dude where he put this metal cover on this lock, then he had drilled out the sheer line.. Does anyone know where to get something like this at? Thats all for now.. Thanks alot

[A-BOMB]

Green Beret I'm in the USA in Pennslsyvain area. And just use what ever metal blade you can get your hands on. And a better idea if you need cash, pour some gas under the door of those store+gaspump places and run it back close to the pump so it looks like some gas got on some one and it go tracked into the store, now light. And break a window and get in and steal the cash and let the store burn and they will never look for you if you did it right because it will look like the fire broke the window, and burn up the cash register making it look like all the cash was burn up, and no one was there.

<small>[ May 07, 2002, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: A-BOMB ]</small>

[Wicked]

There would be ashs and shit, it would look EXACTLY like someone tryed to cover there tracks :p

[AfterRain]

A-Bomb im in tha pa area too. Philly Right here...

But last night i tryed to hit up this one place i cut the fone wire, then i triped the alarm, and cops (undercover) still came tho, ANYONE HAVE ANY INFO ON ALARMS? so i was like screw that i cant get in now, so i started to throw rocks at them, i hit the one car i think... but.... o well... Thanks bout that blade thing, But you know of like a cover you put of a lock and that helps you drill out the sheer line? peace

[James]

I think that they could tell if a window was broken by a fire (not too likely I think) or if it were broken by some 'punk kid' standing outside.

[AfterRain]

Does anyone know where to get safe drill plans for a York Safe? Once i get money im goin' to buy some books from LOCKMASTERS then i'll scan them and get that shit up on the net.. But Im workin' to get that money so i can.

[drstrangelove]

Safe cracking is a very hard trade to get good at.
Safes look alot easyer to get into from a distance but once you have a closer look you will find its not childs play.
I have many horror storys about attempted entry to safes.
If your really serious you should buy a QUALITY safe and see how easy it is to gain entry.
So very very noisey and hard physical work to and the constent threat of police its not easy.

[Wicked]

Hmm, getting into the place is the easy part, its getting out in time/not gettin caught thats hard.

[mark]

Does anyone have any tips for opening master locks? Im having some trouble opening them in like under 3 mins.

[Zach]

bolt cutters, mark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[AfterRain]

drstrangelove , drop me a line at im me at r69o420b187 (dats aim) , but i want to talk to you bout safe crackin', IF not, What have ya herd about it, have you tryed it? no where i can get info on how to get in, such as drillin' , tryin' to get the comb, or got me.... But lets talk bout this...

P.S - HAS ANYONE SEEN GreenBeret around ? if ya around hit me up dawg

[Wicked]

I know about safe cracking, and i know about opening master locks, i just forced em open with some gunpowder, once i uesd some ap my friend gave me.

[AfterRain]

yo wicked, drop me a line rob600s180@aol.com , let me know what you got on safe's. i need to know cuz im workin' on this project and theres safe there...BUt this is what i know so far, that you can drill the door on the safe and use a borscope to see the bar drop in when you spin the dial , then once you got all 3 lined up then you can unlock it .

[drstrangelove]

I wish I had the answer! I would be a rich man!
The first thing you need is QUALITY tools, cheap tools bend, break and are not worth shit especially drills.
You might think drilling for the wheel pack will be just like movies-its not.
Ive never got in a safe by useing any method from any book they just wasted my time.
The best way is pratice on real safe that will teach you more that any book or anything I say.
Good luck

[AfterRain]

Well Dr, How have you gotten in ? if i cant drill it, i want to just cut holes it with wit a burn bar or oxyacetyne torch, Any one know of anything eles that could eat thro the metal in a good amount of time?

[drstrangelove]

It really depends on how big the fucker is.
Is it a floor safe?
Can it be moved?
How much does it weigh?
How thick to you think the door and walls are?
If its a floor safe your in luck as these are piss weak, just smash the door with a sledge hammer untill it buckles.
Is its not over the size of a TV hacksaw off the hinges and pry the door open.
If its cheap model you can peel the bastard, get a cold chizel and make a hole and keep enlarging it untill the peel the metal off then smash the concrete out the peel the inside metal (very soft)and grab the loot.
If its a good model fuck knows.. I have had problems every time ive tryed a proper security safe.
I think the best option for a high security safe is the spend your time moving it somewhere where you can be free to work on the bitch untill she yields.
The bolts that hold safes to the ground are easy to pry up the main proplem is getting the cunt off the ground out of the shop and into the car without anyone seeing-a tough ask.
If possible put it on a blacket and attemp to drag it.
Every week people are ripping off huge safes so its deffinatly possible. I think even more important than all the planning is having the guts to get in there and do what has to be done.

[PYRO500]

if you can fill it with water you are left with two options, the first is you can try to blast it open, anything that is sensitive will be crushed by the shockwaves carried by the water. the second is an oxy acetylene cutting torch, slightly less portable but will cut through damn near anything.

[AfterRain]

Yea you can move the safe, it's on a set of wheels nows, both safes are.uhm not sure how muchbut i would say like 100+lbs?!?!? now on the thinkness , i could not say, i've not seen it open, so...dont know there, But your sayin' the best way prob is to either a cut the hinges or just cut a whole in it? why can i drill it, and use a borescope ? to see the lock rings?
Forgot to add : Well yea i just got 2 books , one is Practical Course in Modern Locksmithing, I've read some things , its ok, and my other book is Locksmithing by Bill Phillips , A very good book, its 500ish pages thats the only problem i have wit it but, very worth it,this book pretty much has it all,$35. why pay that price for that book when I went to the libiary and got them for free, with no return date :) but yea check that last book out :cool: :) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

<small>[ May 14, 2002, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: AfterRain ]</small>

[W_S]

ok, i downloaded the 'impeovised lockpicking for police' and read the part about grinding your own picks out of spring steel. dose anyone think it would work with grinding down a hacksaw blade being that these are very cheap and seem strong.

[drstrangelove]

Go for it! :D
There is nothing wrong with the drill method. I personally tried to drill for the locking cam as suggested in techniques of safecracking book and all that happened was I had a safe looking like swiss cheese but no cash.
I think the hardest part would be drilling a accurate hole.
Also if you have never opened a safe before with that technique it might not be as easy as you think.
On wheels :D Its yours.
I took one on wheels once, it was great fun not much money though.

[mark]

My new pick set arrived today! Although some of the picks are ultiples, it does include this cool pick that has like 7 ridges on 1 side that opens up my master locks in like 3 seconds! Now, to practice on shlage(sp?) and kwikset door locks. Is there any particular trick or pick useful on those?

[Energy84]

I made my own pickset out of hacksaw blades but the bitches were too weak. They bent wayy to easily. For my next set, I'm probably just going to try grinding down some files.
As for safecracking, I just had an idea. What if you were to go at it with a thermic lance but not actually try to cut through but rather get it as hot as possible and then throw a few buckets of water on it to cool it down as fast as possible. This should make the steel very brittle and you could probably crack it with a sludge hammer.
Another idea would be to make a hole in the safe with your thermic lance and just fill the fucker up with water. If the walls are really thick, you might get lucky enough to be able to crack the walls by heating the outside while the inside stays cool. But on the other hand, if the lance goes through and boils the water, you might have a nasty explosion due to the water turning to steam.
Also, if you can get a thermic torch in there, I'm sure you could bring in an acetelyne tank too. Just fill with gas and get the hell out. I'm sure you could work out the details of detonating the bitch. If it works too well though, you might lose someof your loot in the fire.
I hope some of this makes sense to somebody as I'm half asleep right now :o

[vulture]

What metals are most safes made of? This way i could devise a method of silent chemical attack.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[AfterRain]

See im not down with the whole blowin' the safe up, cuz there are a strip row of house's right behind this place, the quiter the better, so i think im goin' to go with cuttin' a hole big enough to stick both my hands in to grab shit and then im out. I plan on cuttin' a square about 1ftx1ft . so i punch (with the lance) 4 holes for all the corners then and every .5 inche drill a hole, then just hit the box wit a sledge hammer, would that work by pushin' the square in? <img src="http://members.aol.com/~rob600s180/safe.bmp" alt="" /> Also wouldn't it also be fast then cuttin' thro the whole area?

<small>[ May 15, 2002, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: AfterRain ]</small>

[drstrangelove]

I think you will run into problems with drilling or burning a series of holes.
The first layer is metal for a bit then thick concrete with chunks of drill destroying material the the inner layer.
Give it a test shot on a bit of BBQ plate and you will see what I mean.

[Anthony]

Drilling that amount of holes in just plain, thick steel would take quite some time. Concrete wouldn't be a problem for a thermic lance or an oxy-acetylene torch, IIRC it's melting point is below 1000*C, I've melted it myself before and I'd say it was easier than mild steel. The drill destroying material might be ceramic chips mixed in with the concrete? If so they should just flow out with the slag. If it's a solid sheet then expose it and smash it?

[SATANIC]

If you could et one hole in it, then rather than trying to 'explode' it with steam or whatever, try to freeze it. If you lived in a cold area that would be no problem.

The power of water->ice will force anything! even if it doesn't crack open, it will at least buckle / weaken it.

Failing that, fill it with water, then blow it.

This is actually a technique they use to extract unused explosive from old artillery shells. Fill all the spare space in the shell with water, then detonate a small charge, enough to 'fracture' any explosive in the shell.

Because of the water, the shockwave will not propogate through.
If they can safely get high explosives out using it, then it should be gentle enough to get out the contents of a safe. (good for diamond, precious metals etc..) Unfortunately, those of you that live in areas using paper money would have problems....

[AfterRain]

a few things:Does any one have any safe drillin' plans?Anyone know of any lock smith warehouse's in phila?and where can i get an oxy/lance torch at?thanks

[mark]

A pair of bolt cutters and a car will yeild you the torch. Just drive down to the nearest large construction sight(there should be plenty in philly) and steel one from there. Theyre always there, make sure to grab both bottles. Get someone to help you, as I assume the bottles are heavy. Although I beleive stealing is usualy wrong, these guys are city funded and it wont take them more than an hour to get a new one, and how often do they realy need to weld after all?

But, I dont realy see the point in oxy torching the fucker. This is your first safe, and the likley hood of your baking all the money/narcotics/jewlery inside is quite high. The torch is doing 6000 degrees afterall, and paper goes at 451. Id just take the safe with you and bash it open with a sledge hammer at home.

[drstrangelove]

If your not going to try to move it first thing to do is grab the door handle on the safe and give a shake and see how close the door fits on the body of the safe. The more room for tools the better.
If the screwdrivers and prybars break or bend and sparks come off the safe door and its not opening or spliting its not likely your going to get in that way.
If you use to oxy torch or lance beware of smoke alarms and all the smoke, make sure you fill it with water.
Most safes are key and combo so even if you beat the wheelpack with the drill there is still the key lock.

[PYRO500]

Also be careful with certain kinds of safes, especially ver expensive ones, some of the larger ones have tempered glass backings (very common on bank vault doors, and if they are forced the glass will shatter releasing a ton of springloaded pins that will make sure you will have to cut every squaer inch of the door off to get it to open.

[frog_croak]

I need a second opinion on a hypothetical (of course) situation

there is a hypothetical old school ATM that is being filled within the week and there is nothing but two tubular locks in between my hypothetical thief and a lot of money.

Disregard entry, exit, surveillance, and security of the building it's in.

(I would never have posted this had I any prior knowledge about tubular locks, sadly my experience has been limited to normal picking, tubular locks never interested me…until now.) :D

Since he naturally wants maximum befits, he has little time to prepare and has no fancy equipment.

What my hypothetical thief needs is a moderately fast and quiet method to bypass these two locks.

what do you think?

[Anthony]

"he has little time to prepare and has no fancy equipment."

Poor planning leads to poor performance!

You should also be prepared to invest in equipment, IIRC the RTPBs recommend you invest at least 10% of your expected booty.

I think you're probably asking for some magical "thing" which does not exist.

[silentfootsteps]

what do you think of the Peterson Pro-1?

http://www.lockpicks.com/product.asp?0=206&1=220&3=46

[Adept]

Originally posted by frog_croak
What my hypothetical thief needs is a moderately fast and quiet method to bypass these two locks.

what do you think?

He should try doing just that. Bypass them. Does the target room have any windows, or other modes of entry? How concerned with evidence is he? For example, can a sledge hammer be used to simply bash the doors in question off their hinges?

Does he have access to a cutting torch able to burn the lock out of the door?

Would it be easier for him to simply obtain a copy of the key, than try and destroy/pick the lock?

The locks in question are the problem. Dont focus on the problem, focus on the solution.

[PHAID]

If the tubular locks in question are of the ace style you need to check for what kind it is.

They come in 3 sizes and several pin configurations.

The "standard" tubular lock is the 7 pin ace lock, this is the most common you will find.

There is also 8 and 10 pin locks as well as offset pins.

Picks usualy run you around $60 and up and are not hard to use, just dont get into the mindset that its like TV and the movies. You do get some that will pick quite fast but most will take you a few min. or more to open.

You can also get the special bits made for drilling those locks but then you have the issue of noise.

If you have an interest on the subject just let me know what your looking for or what information you need and ill be happy to help.

[Anthony]

I'm wondering if a pickgun would be effective against the locks found in car wheel clamps (US: boots?). It's perfectly legal to remove a private wheel clamp from your car (If the council/city put it on you can't), the only thing you can be done for is criminal damage to the clamp.

I don't give a shit about criminal damage and by-and-large, neither to the police. However, it's not convinent to keep petrol powered cutting tools in your car (if you have them at all). But a pickgun is, and would be comparatively cheap.

I know it's a vague question, but there's a chance someone will know...

[PHAID]

It depends on what lock the particular clamp has.

Pickguns work well on pin tumbler locks but are worthless against wafer locks.

Odds are that the clamps will either be keyed alike or will have a master system to cut down on the number of keys they have to deal with, so if you can get one you can fit a key to it and try it on others.

Personaly i think your best bet would be a cordless drill.
Most things like the clamps use cam-locks so all you need to do is drill strait through to disengage the tailpiece.
With a good sharp bit you can drill it much faster than you could ever pick it.

[Knuckles666]

Don't know if anyone's seen this site in the UK or elsewhere, but they have a huge selection of picks and alsorts of gadgets. I ordered a basic SouthOrd pickset and found my own techniques within minutes (the best thing to do). The company itself is very good, polite and quick delivery. Oh yeah, before I forget, the site! www.topsecretmagic.co.uk

[zeke79]

First of all, what kind of safe are you working with. 90% of your better quality floor safes will do a very good job of resisting brute force attacks. Do some research before you go bashing the safe in with a hammer as suggested above as alot of bigger floor safes today employ glass relockers. I am not going into depth on these but if you break them the locking bars fall in the door and your very limited on options at that point. As far as drilling goes there are usually one or two hardplates surrounding the lock. Alot of safes you will run into will have ball bearings between these plates so if you do happen to get through the first plate, the bearings will give just enough to allow your drill bit to slide in before breaking it off. Safe cracking and bypassing takes alot of research and study. My suggestion to you is that if it is not a brinks or other wal mart brand safe walk away and find an easier target. If you can carry the safe, take it somewhere you can safely work on it(NOT YOUR HOME). If you are still interested in learning how I would pick up the book Locks Safes and Security. It is around 1400 pages and costs around 235.00 shipped to your door. I would also recommend finding a drill point locator. You can download one here http://www.lockmasters.com/download/download.html. Good Luck!

[steyr]

Maybe someone has drawings or howto's or anything ;D about making pick gun? I can't buy anything like that in my country... grrr... As I see, pick gun is some metal and spring that shakes the pick?

[Anthony]

Thanks PHAID. I had a look on google and it seems that most wheel clamps can be removed simply with brute force and/or basic tools such as a wheel brace.

I've heard of people improvising a pick gun with a pick and an electric toothbrush. Don't recall how effective they are though.

[DimmuJesus]

Lockpicking can be a fun thing to learn. I myself am dabbling a bit into it just in case it comes in handy someday. I'm only good enough at it to pick like basic door locks and padlocks, but getting better. It's amazing how much easier it is becoming to find information on lockpicking and locksmithing. With locksmithing being the trade that it is, it has usually been difficult to get your hands on the "trade secrets" without being a locksmith by profession.
This brings a point. For those who are really interested in mastering locksmithing, one of the best ways to do it would be to invest some money into one of those correspondance courses offered by many places. Most of them will send you tools, key blanks, even a key machine. For under a $1000 you can just about master the trade. But it's all in practice and experience.
One final note-just because one has an interest in this trade does not make him a criminal! Just like with all knowledge it's how you use it.

[Hang-Man]

One final note-just because one has an interest in this trade does not make him a criminal!
One Starting note- nobody on this forum gives a shit if you're a criminal.

If you are interested in lock picking buy a good 8-12 pick set off the net, (there must be a good 4-5 sites that do, I got mine from www.lockpicks.com) then go to a hardware store and buy 6 pin tumblers. Take them apart and put them back together with one pin in the first, two in the second, three in the third, and so on. You should be able to figure it out faster than you think. Signing up for a course would be a hurting waste of money.

[PHAID]

Those courses are good to show the basics but dont even come close to teaching you the trade.
I dabbled in locksmithing for many years and found out quickly working as a locksmith that there is more to learn each day.
If you check your local locksmiths most will be for one thing or the other it is rare to find ones who do it all.

[tom haggen]

Heres a pdf that contains a book on lock picking. I found it to be somewhat useful for info on picking wafer locks. I already knew how to pick pin tumbler locks before I read this book. If I hadn't then I probably would have learned a lot more from this book. Hopefully I can get it to upload

[static_firefly]

I work at a place with a safe and its been attacked a few times. Only one has worked. The safe has cuts and dings in it where people have tryed to cut the door off and such but its very heavly armoured. Its flaw is that you can deposite money in through a little drawer that slides in and opens to the inside. The guys rocked up when the first staff arived (it looks like they did there homework) beat them up and gaged them then they used fishing like and a hook which they droped in the chute and shook around. They managed to snag the plastic bags and pull them back through the chute. Out of 80 or so bags only 5 were left and the fellers walked away with an easy 3,000. Never caught. The whole operation took 40min.

[PHAID]

Must have been a cheap safe or they had inside help.
Any decent drop safe has either a 1 way door to the slot or has teeth at the bottom edge to keep you from fishing anything out.

[Jacks Complete]

A rather neat trick with those deposit safes is to drop a long thin bag inside another long thin bag, with a weight. This simply lets you pull the inner bag out after someone else fills it up, and the outer bag gets stuck to the teeth, but you don't care about that! It works for "one-way" doors, too, as it holds them nicely open, and you can pull really hard on a canvas bag.

As for safe cracking the "easy" way, well, they try to remove the options! If it is a modern safe, I suggest you forget it. I do have one idea, and I will have a search and see if anyone has posted about it.

A clever way to get past the circular "coke machine" type locks is to make or buy a circular lock pick. They can be bought for some money, from $60 to $120, but they let you take the readings and make a key from them! This would let you do the bulk of the work at your leisure, at home, having taken the readings off the locks, making the keys, then you wait for the delivery and go and empty it.

There is another thread on the possible ways to steal the whole machine, too.

I heard about one safe that got stolen, despite police patrols every 15 minutes. Seems they ripped it off the wall and dragged it away. The guy who installed it said it was a bitch, as it was too heavy for two men, and in a cramped space, so full, it must have weighed a hell of a lot (I know roughly what was in it), and it would have taken four men. They stole the wife's car to take it away! The cops found it down by a river nearby, with the whole back sliced off it with a petrol (stil or stihl {sp? it is the make, and is pronouced very like"steel"}) saw with a diamond blade. Needless to say, the contents were long gone.

[akinrog]

I posted this message to this forum previously but I cannot find it for some reason (a bug?).
As for breaking open a safe, you may use a CO2 laser to slice it like a chees. On internet I saw several homemade lasers which can be feasible made at home. As an alternative, you may cryoscopcally freeze the metals down to -150 or below by means of liquid nitrogen (or liquid air?). But gaining access to and storing nitrogen (LO) may be problematic.

----------------------------

You couldn't find your message because newbies' posts are subject to moderation and have to be approved before they appear. The message which appears after you submit your posts tells you about this.

Rhadon

[nbk2000]

"Stihl" is correct.

I was at a locksmiths recently looking for some safes to photograph, but the store was a lot smaller than expected, and didn't have much of anything to look at. :(

Since I was there, I asked them if they had any old Medeco, Kaba, Assa-abloy, DOM, etc cylinders that'd they'd be willing to sell as scrap.

This brought on a whole spiel about "We return all those to the manufacturers (which I know is a lie) because of security, key control, criminals learning how they work, blah blah blah.....".

In other words, security through obscurity.

I asked if they had any to sell, brand new. Jeez, big surprise, they did. :rolleyes:

I asked them why it was more secure to send back an empty cylinder that obviously didn't work and had parts missing when they'd sell brand-new ones that worked with all the parts intact, if they're so concerned about "criminals" not learning how the locks worked, as if the smart criminals didn't already know.

(Silence)

Followed by yelling about "Get the fuck out of my store you criminal scumbag blah blah blah!"

Sad that locksmiths still believe that they can keep their trade secrets a secret now that this new fad called "The Internet" is around. :rolleyes:

Anyways, I just wanted the cylinders to test how well tiny SC's worked in penetrating through the shear line on these hardened-steel "high-security" cylinders. Guess I'll just buy them off of e-bay. :p

[PHAID]

nbk2000 actually the majority of the locks you mention are made of brass with a few hardened-steel pins inserted in the common drill points.

I have the schematics for most and can probably find the rest if you have a need for them.

[powdermunkey]

Has anyone here used the fiber pick that looks like a little tiny toothbrush? What's a good way to attach the pick arm to a homemade clothsehanger pick gun? mine end up too loose to last- I've never been able to get a lock to open with the pick gun, while using a simple pick is usually successful.

[Ropik]

I have one big question, sorry if it sounds newbish:
Has anyone plans(direct photos/ blueprints etc.) of jiggler keys, also known as try-out keys? It seems that on net are +- two pictures, copied from one page to another, but I was not able to find any plans. Skeleton keys plans are findable, but jigglers... It another task. Much more tough.
Thank in advance

[Phaid69]

Do you mean regular jiggler keys or are you refering to tryout keys for autos?

[Ropik]

Regular jigglers, but even these CAN be used for opening automobiles, I hear and read(I cannot try because I am trying to obtain their exact shapes and dimensions to make them).
If somebody have jigglers: please sacrifice few minutes to lay them on some flat thing like table and take a picture of them. Measure one dimension(lenght for example) and send me the picture(with the dimension, if possible :) ) or post it here.
You will make me full of joy.

[Phaid69]

I will get a pic for you but honestly they are not used often by locksmiths.
Your best bet is a set of picks and to practice with them.

[Ropik]

I will be thankful for picture... However, I had set of jigglers(I lost it during moving to new territory) and I have some great successes with them - mainly on larger padlocks they worked like charm.
I did not try them on cars, but even some cheaper pin and wafer tumblers were defeated with them.

EDIT: Also, I need help with one type of padlock. Obviously it is a variation on warded lock, but there are few wards and many very thin discs that must be turned and aligned to open this lock. Beside cratermaker and crowbar it seems to be practically unpickable for me.

[Jacks Complete]

Dammit... Lost my post to the forum software again! The lack of the back button capability is so annoying - something overwrites the page and when you go back the post is gone...

Right, try again.

I have been working on a Thompson's Arms Chest, which is a really big green locking steel box for keeping guns in. The army used to use them, but they have, as far as I know, all been pulled from service now. The locks on mine are dated after 1963, as I found the BSI kitemark label on them, but before 1980, which was the first revision (does anyone have a copy of the 1963 version? I can't find it anywhere) after a few hours of carefully cutting them out.

The reason they have all been pulled is because the locks are tamper-proof, and very hard to get out, even with a really good cutter, a cold chisel, and lots of time. Of course, to roughly chop them out would have taken ten minutes, but I am intent on replacing them with modern mortice locks. The reason they need replacing is because they have been over-taken by technology! 40 odd years ago, these locks would have been impossible to get past. They use a very clever key, which looks a lot like a modern tubular lock as modelled on a coke machine, except in minature. How small? Try 5 to 8 mm! The key is a tube with slots cut in the end, and a small tooth that actually throws the bolt, and the locks are deep behind a good thick steel plate. The flaw, of course, is that a modern drill with a good drill bit will trash the pins in seconds and let you in.

Anyway, if anyone has any idea about this type of lock, what it is called, or anything else, please post. Google returns nothing at all on the Thompson's Arms Chest, either, so any more info on them would be good too.

[Jacks Complete]

Ropik,

I (think) know the type of padlock you mean. I have a lock like that, and they are used in high security places quite a lot. Have you seen the key? Is it like a metal rod with a flat side, then notches cut into it? If so, it is the same.

I haven't worked out how to pick it yet, as it is self-warding, and the "spare" discs rotate at the same time as the "locking" discs. I can't take it apart, either. It looks like it is really simple, but it isn't. I think a set of picks that were set at different depths, which could all be rotated independently, would work, but it will mean making a jig. I just don't have time! I still haven't even found my chronograph, which is in a box somewhere...

[Ropik]

The key is piece of thick sheet metal, with notches in it. Yes. The only way how to open it that I figured out has not too much common with lockpicking, it's actually brute force attack. The discs are covered with some kind of thick washer, very strong, but weakest link of the lock, because it also cover the latch. I was able to crack the washer off few days ago with well tempered screwdriver, while I almost destroyed it too. When you can get rid of this pesky washer, you just tap the lock on your palm, all guts inclusive latch spills out and the lock can be opened. Small lock of this type can be frequently opened with one of standart jigglers, but big are pretty appaling.

P.S.: I hope you will find your scanner :)

[Moh]

To day I made a rake pick from a "blank" key. I filed of a bit of the top to make room for a tension wrench, and carved away every thing exept from to spikes I made on the tip. It worked nicely. A good tip if you for some reason can't get a lockpicking set. Now I'm looking forward to my new set of picks arives. ;)

[nbk2000]

http://www.stealthlocksystems.com/index_020.htm

Core drill cuts out the hardened face of an abloy lock (the kind you described), allowing the guts to be removed. :)

[Jacks Complete]

Abloy, yes.

Drilling the face out isn't quite picking the lock though... Not very discreet. For all the ones I've seen, you would do better to just chop it with bolt crops, as the shackle is really very thin.
Failing that, the patent padlock remover would do the trick. Take a pipe wrench or another solid hook shaped tool, put it in the loop of the shackle, and hit it with a heavy object (fire extingishers work well, and you tend to find them nearby) You get very little damage a lot of the time, and you can often re-lock the padlock afterwards! Of course, if you hit it too hard, the lock ends up as two parts.

[nbk2000]

I'm not concerned with subtlties most of the time. ;) But, yes, it is possible to impression a key for abloy type locks.

"High security locks", a PDF about 5MB in size by jelly, on the FTP, details it.

[WMD]

Abloys can be impressioned, but I've heard that it takes very long, over an hour to get a working key. While impressioning offers the benefit that you can go away during the process and continue impressioning sometime later and you can pass on the finished key instead of risking your own ass for the job this amount of time is a little bit too much imho.

[nk.]

[Er.... I am surprised no one has posted this(as far as I can tell by searching).]

Anyways, there is a great forum for lockpicking at:
http://www.lockpicking101.com

I learned quite a bit from there, unfortunately the more interesting methods/threads are now restricted to certain members of the forum. I am not one of them as I have been inactive for quite sometime. If you go there, you may be able to engineer your way into having access to the more interesting things within a few weeks.

The forum covers almost everything for beginners including ordering picks, using picks, making picks, drilling locks, techinques for security pins, techniques for specific locks, bypassing locks, masterkeying, and almost everything else relating to lockpicking.

Something very important to remember:
Lockpicking is not trivial after a certain point even though it is possible to pick the lock. It requires a lot of constant practice and patience.

[Big Mac]

Excuse me if this comes off the wrong way, but in most cases wouldn't it be faster to just use Mr. Crowbar on doors or simply use a battering ram they sell at Blackhawk or other military/police supply stores?

In fact, you could even buy a uniform and you and a buddy dress up as cops, anyone who walks by will assume it is police business. You could even yell at gawkers by saying, "Get the fuck out of here before I arrest your ass for obstruction" or some shit. Seeing as most people tend to be ignorant of the law and their rights (thanks to the current Regime, I mean Administration.) they will probably leave you alone.

Just a thought, probably kind of dumb but something I just thought I'd throw out there. I've always heard lockpicking can take quite a while even for professionals so I would think just demolishing a door would be faster than picking the lock. Both seem to have their own pro's and con's. Demolishing is faster but generally noiser and more noticeable. Picking is more covert but still time consuming and increases your chances of getting caught and cutting into your 2-5 minute run time (as we all know you limit your raid time to 2-5 minutes or else you greatly increase losing your asshole's virginity). Anywho, I'm a newb so please don't be too harsh.

[c.Tech]

Big Mac:
Yes those methods could be quite useful in the right situation, but if somebody wanted to act in stealth or needed to keep quiet lock picking would be the preferred method.

It may also depend on the area and setting your in.

eg1. If you were in somebody’s backyard trying to break into their house it would probably be safer to pick a lock which would create minimal noise rather than kicking in their back door alerting the owners (if they are home) and neighbors.

eg2. If you were on a street at night where the odd person walks down approx. every minute its better to kick in the door than pick the lock and let a few people see your work in progress.

If I was to do this I’d use your police imitating idea just incase somebody does come by at the wrong time.

[BlackFalcoN]

Excuse me if this comes off the wrong way, but in most cases wouldn't it be faster to just use Mr. Crowbar on doors or simply use a battering ram they sell at Blackhawk or other military/police supply stores?


Lockpicking is a more silent and stealthier form of entering, without leaving visible traces to the exterior of the lock and door.

Just as there are locks that can't be picked by the average lockpicker/lockpicks, there are doors/hinges/frames that are so well armoured they can't be broken open by the average crowbar/ram/explosive charge. Sometimes, the heaviest armoured doors, have the weakest locks on them. (or vice versa)

Say you were planning a mission that would require you to enter a building, where you have to bypass a door in order to get to your final target. And the target will require you to be there for at least half an hour in order to complete your objective.

That would pretty much exclude breaching the door as your first choice, since by the time you complete your objective, the place will be swarmed by security forces, police, neighbours, bystanders etc...

The aggressive nature of breaching will make mission-time a very critical factor in your approach, since the chance you are detected by somebody is enormous.

Say you had to bypass a lock to get to some sensetive information ( your girlfriend's diary, somebodies PGP key and passphrase, top secret NSA files, ... ).
Just the visible fact that somebody got to the information without permission, will give your target the opportunity to counter-act, possibly rendering the aquired secret information useless.

Surreptisious entry relies on stealth & silence, where as breaching relies on dynamic entry, aggression and sheer force.

Sometimes you just can't afford to leave visible clues that somebody bypassed a door/lock without permission.

[Big Mac]

Ah yes, sorry I completely ignored the stealth application. However with that stealth you sacrifice speed. Though as you guys have pointed out, sometimes you have no other alternative. Then again the option I presented comes on a slippery slope. Usually when cops are breaking into a home they usually come in sizable groups and think of how embarassing it would be if a neighbor of you target is a cop, he or she (PC is a bitch these days) could immediately notice things are awry from the simple tactics you employ. Though I suppose my suggestion has a place somewhere in the toolbox, just not sure where.

One last con on the Police idea, it's a big felony for impersonating cops. I work as a Security Officer (they get all pissy at work if we call ourselves guards for some idiotic reason. Don't worry, I'm not going to make a career out of this, just a college job) and our uniforms look like the cops' uniforms. Hell a lot of people won't pass me on the highway when I'm uniform. However we've been constantly reminded how big of a felony it is to imitate an officer.

(I hope I'm not talking out of turn, I know I'm relatively new here and don't wish to cause any friction)

[Jacks Complete]

That's very cute. I've got a mate who's a security guard, too. Generally a very dull job in the UK. You can't stop anyone most of the time, even if your £8 an hour was enough for you to want to!

One advantage to picking the lock is that you might be able to shut the door again behind you, and so work freely for a while before simply walking out as if you own the place, and locking the door behind you. If there's a busted door, that's not going to work.

[nocturnalfrost]

There is a group of people in the Netherlands that are educating people in the skill and art of lock picking. Their site is a great place to learn techniques, buy modern style lock picks, and also find what locks are "good" locks.

These guys even challenge companies to send in their locks to be tested. Some companies even chicken out. They will also let the public know if a companies's locks have certain vunerabilities, and the company is hiding these facts. They were recently in N.Y. at HOPE 6 teaching people the tricks.

http://www.toool.nl/index-eng.php

[ozboy]

Modern high security locks and how to open them, link.

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/78119-post31.html

++++++++++++

Howabout's UTFSE and avoiding posting duplicate links, eh? You'll avoid gettting banned that way.

NBK