Not a good sign for online civil liberties

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Fuck. <a href="http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_constitution&Number=228519&t=0" target="_blank">This</a> is really bad.

[NERV]

oh grate! This just makes me feel all warm inside. Looks like I am going to have to go and write all over my site "don't use this against the goverment or break the law with this information." Geuss we all better start loving big brother :rolleyes: .

[vulture]

I remember some people here unconditionally defending US government policies...Guess that will change now. God am I glad I live in Europe!

[Jhonbus]

I like the fact someone on that forum pointed out that the US patent office website could also be breaking that Patriot Act

[Spudkilla]

Wouldn't this go under the 'Raise the Fist Raied Again' topic? I read the excact same article in that topic..

[chemwarrior]

This is some fucking bull shit. The "patriots act" not only allows shit like this, but I have heard on the news that now law enforcement can even enter your home, without your knowledge, (they still have to have a search warrent, and they can implant any survailence devices anywhere they choose. As soon as Im 18, Im leaving this miserable country for good. The sad thing is I was defending this countrys policies for a long time but this is too much! This is some democracy! More like a damn dictatorship. Let those with power (not real power mind you) sit there and play war. If this isnt enough to cause the people to come together and stop the fucking feds, then I don know what would.

[john_smith]

I always wanted to live in US but now... no thanks. One prospective illegal alien less :D

[CodeMason]

The words more relevent now than ever: Smash The State.

mega: Ever considered moving the server overseas, to a locale like Holland?

[J.T.Ripper]

The same thing is happening in Australia. ASIO is now able to put you away for 7 days without trial and keep you 2 days before they let you seek legal advice. So tips for all Australian if you planing anything like an underground site keep it of shore.

[Al Nobel]

I`m happy to live in Germany . Here the government would do exactly the same thing to interrested people who make interresting information available, but they just have a few people searching the internet for illegal content .Americans i suffer with you. Sorry for my english

[xoo1246]

Remove

<small>[ December 11, 2002, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[vulture]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> killing chemical weapons and weapons of mass diversion . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Lol, mass diversion. If someone could be accused of mass diversion, it is the US government.

Now, let's expose myself. I'm not from belgium. I'm a CIA agent. I have used the improvised weapons on this forum with succes while eliminating undesirable objects. I keep flaming the US government just so nobody would suspect me. Now I'm going to use your improvised weapons to eliminate you all.

Goodbye.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

I am also a CIA agent. I will systematically eliminate everyone with their own methods of destruction. You are all under secret arrest. Prepare to be indefinitely detained - that is, if you survive your initial interrogation session.

[Arkangel]

News from the BBC Website tonight.......

"A 32-year-old computer programmer has been charged with allegedly collecting information which could be used by Islamic terrorists planning an attack. Mohammed Abdullah Azam, of Elgar Path, Luton, Bedfordshire has been charged under the Terrorism act 2000, Scotland Yard said on Wednesday.

He is due to appear at Bow Street Magistrates' Court on Thursday.

Police said Azam was suspected of "collecting information of a kind likely to be useful to Islamic fundamentalists committing or preparing an act of terrorism, or had documents or records containing information of that kind".

Three other men, two aged 21, one aged 23, were arrested under the same act last Sunday in Luton in connection with the same investigation, police said.

All three were released on Wednesday and no further action would be taken against them, police said."

Holy fucking shit!

"collecting information of a kind likely to be useful to". Can anyone explain what the FUCK that means? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Taken to an extreme, this could be collecting bus timetables for a suicide attack. That has to be the most nebulous "charge" that I've ever seen.

Here's the url:

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2267444.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2267444.stm</a>

[AmonDin]

Since this is the confessional and all...

I am, in fact, an evil dictator subtly working his minions into power. Every piece of freedom stripping legislation is designed to put the US under my jack boot. The CIA and gee dubya are all my unwitting pawns. This site has been allowed to proliferate because you will be the people to bring the US millitary down to such a level that it will allow my own elite shock troops to sieze power at the crucial moment. After my power is secure, you will all be eliminated.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

[megalomania]

There is a difference between gathering together information to use for a terrorist act and having information. A bus schedule by itself is not a bad thing, nor is having explosives info. A bus schedule of a route leading to various buildings along with diagrams of those buildings and information for detonaters, explosives, placement diagrams, and ample chemicals on hand to make such explosives could be considered a threat. Even if it isn’t, the troops could crush you anyway. Public opinion is on their side, for now. Most government types aren’t smart enough to realize as soon as all this terrorist stuff dies down many political careers will be ruined, laws will be stricken and those troops will be sued out the ass or charged with “war crimes.”

Thank you, code mason, I had not considered an offshore server to host the site. I am considering it now!

[Bitter]

Patriot act ? Hmmm...violating the first ammendment is now considered patriotic, is it ? The US government has a strange sense of humour.

[Arkangel]

Not so much on line liberties, as liberties full stop.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2563249.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2563249.stm</a>

I can't believe this sort of thing is being allowed to happen in the name of the state. How much paranoia and fear has been generated to allow it? To me, the most interesting quote is:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> He says that it would only take one more terrorist attack and public support is assured.

"At that point there will not only be a willingness to submit to those sorts of infringement but a demand that they be infringed upon in the hope of trying to protect us"

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">So then, in who's greater interests is the next "terrorist attack going to be......Osama Bin Laden or a power addicted US Government? :mad:

[Jhonbus]

It seems to me the American people are gradually losing everything the founding fathers fought for. Too many people are losing sight of what really matters, and I think it's going to lead to a very dangerous situation before too long. The spread of technology is being abused by the government to exert more and more control over the people. The government is partly to blame, of course, but it's the people themselves that are destroying their own freedom by allowing the government to "make it safe" for them. It's about time people learned the lesson that the world *isn't* safe, and life *isn't* fair, and bloody well start to live with it.
The general public are rapidly transmuting into a bunch of children who want mummy (the government) to look after them constantly, and they expect it as a basic right that nothing bad should ever happen to them. Other signs of the times such as the rapid rise of the litigation culture are further evidence of this. People have to be shown, forcibly if necessary, that SHIT HAPPENS!
We can only hope the revolution won't be too late. If we leave it too long the government will be able to detect our "dangerous thoughts" before we can act on them, and the human race will be fucked.

[piggarro99]

THAT WAS FAKE!!!

the news report tells you of the url.. that is not allowed in any press report

[megalomania]

Ack, why is it this kind of news is never reported on by US media? That's the real scary part. This stuff gets buried under the latest pile of flag waving "patriots" telling us all is well...

The sad part is the part about just needing one more attack to make this happen seems quite true to me. People can't get rif of their freedoms fast enough during a crisis. In fact when times get tough most people abandon their principles alltogether for what they percieve to be safety. Later we will hear them say "it seemed like a good idea at the time..." The same words spoken by most people admitted into the hospital :)

I even find the promising hope of "it is bound to fail" to be a smoke screen. That's just another ploy to get us to buy into it, if it can't possible work (so they would have us believe) then why not let them try? What could possibly be the harm... Bah!

Would they even dare try this system if the bank accounts they are looking at could spot white collar embezzelers? Oh sure, now that such things as dealing drugs (at lately gangs) are suddenly threats to National Security, it may stop them, but would the likes of Enron get away? Woah be it to any of you who subscribe to Soldier of Fortune and don't declare the $50 you get from your parents on Xmas... you'll be labeled a dissident with a secred funding source, aka a TERRORIST!

Everything seems to make you a terrorist nowadays. Smoke a little weed? Your a terrorist, or at least fund regimes of terror. Have a gun? Terrorist. Shoplift from the stores? How dare you reduce tax revinews that fund our army, you terrorist. Why I even heard a plot the government is looking out for, they say TERRORISTS may use cupons to generate funds. What will they stoop to next bilking our people out of 0.15 a pop for Fancy Feast cat food to fund their TERROR.

It's almost enough to make one root for Osama (and with this statement the bells and whistles go off at the Ministry of Love where Big Brothers troops will soon kick in my door for daring to utter such a thoughtcrime).

[nbk2000]

I always found it a rather odd coincidence how major attacks in the US always seem to happen when they're needed the most. That being to generate publicity for some piece of freedom stealing legislation.

For instance, assualt weapon ban in california was shot down twice. So, what happens a few weeks before it goes up for a third time? Patrick Purdy shoots up a school yard of kids with an AK-47. Bill passes with flying colors.

(A friend of mine who's friend was an ex-FBI agent, told me an FBI handler set up purdy to shoot up the school. Used psychology to turn his paranoid delusions into a lethal hatred, then provided him with the gun to do the job with. Think about that.)

BB wants the power to monitor militias (like they're a threat :rolleyes: ) with warrentless phonetaps and such. OKC bombing with Timmy having militia ties, don't you know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Need a reason to get involved in Middle Eastern affairs? OOPS...WTC gets blown up by ragheads from all the arab states. NOW we've got a reason to invade.

I can see a .50 "sniper" rifle ban coming into effect after some "terrorist" shoots up an airliner on the runway. Naturally the "terrorist" will be killed while "resisting" arrest.

Need a reason to declare martial law and suspend the constitution? "Terrorists" will blow up a "dirty" bomb, or a chem/bio agent, in a major city next. That'll have the sheeple bleating for "safety".

(Remember, I'm the guy who was 3 for 3 in predicting the DC sniper. :D )

[Anthony]

NBK, what happened to "the ragheads attacked because they are jealous of our country!"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Seriously, it's this kind of BS that stops me making long-term plans to emigrate to the US to avoid the BS here.

About the wiretap and other snooping thing, before it was all "we need this to prevent another McVeigh!", now it's the same thing but just WTC. I haven't looked into it deeply, but apparently, no wiretaps have been authorised for terrorist (domestic or international) since the 80's. Although this was pre-WTC, so things may have changed. I'm still willing to bet that only a tiny percentage of wiretaps are used to "prevent" the terrorism it's cried they're needed for. Drugs/fraud probably make up 95% of them.

As they say: Never underestimate the stupidity of large groups of people.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

I agree with NBK: it is interesting how convenient the timing of various incidents is.

9/11 being the most amazing in recent history. The war in Afghanistan had been planned and scheduled in the spring of 2001 - invasion set for October of 2001. What an amazing coincidence!!! A supervillian strikes, and the supersleuths called the FBI (who took forever to catch a rogue rifleman) tracked down the supposed perpetrator within hours! Then, the government proceeds to classify all information linking the Israeli Mossad to 9/11! Shuts up the FBI investigators who said it likely was the Israeli Mossad pretending to be Al Qaeda! Blocks independent investigation! Ignores the fact that many of the people they claimed were hijackers have turned up alive! Looks the other way when Israeli Mossad agents are caught in Palestine pretending to be Al Qaeda! Hides the fact that FEMA agents were called into New York on September 10! Shuts up the 911 dispatcher who received calls from the plane that went down in Pennsylvania - he originally said that the passengers heard an explosion, then the plane started to go down! Prohibts access to the pieces of that plane strewn miles before the crash site (hijackers don't disassemble planes in mid-flight). Deletes the last two minutes of the black box record! Isn't it amazing?! Coincidences galore! Evidence that the government's story is true: they say so, and claim to have evidence to support it that they naturally can't show us (probably because it doesn't exist)!

There are more events out there that raise some eyebrows. Of course, people like to say that the more believable but non-governmentally endorsed story is bullshit conspiracy theory, because they have no ability to think for themselves. They let the talking heads on the idiot box do the "thinking" for them.

[nbk2000]

I'm sure there's all kinds of plots the government has squashed that we'll never hear about.

I'm also sure there's plenty that they know about, but let happen anyways, because it serves their interests to do so. (Just like FDR knew about the jap attack on Pearl Harbor, but let it happen anyways).

So they knew about the ragheads hating us and plotting an attack, and let it happen.

BTW, I include jews under the "raghead" title, so whether from iran, or from israel, doesn't matter.

And, yes, they're STILL jealous of the west. :p

[BoB-]

Check out this page, its a massive collection of evidence that flight 93's crash was no accident;

<a href="http://www.flight93crash.com/" target="_blank">http://www.flight93crash.com/</a>

[Zach]

I love my country, but I hate its government

[Al Koholic]

You'll all love this! A friend of mine introduced me to this site yesterday. So who here can guess why the most aggressive nation in the world is allowed to have the most weapons of mass destruction? Well of course because they have the weapons in the first place. Now I know this is kinda weird to be saying being a US resident and all but LETS GO CHINA!!! KEEP UP THAT 8% per YEAR GROWTH!!!
Oh I dream of the day when China rivals the US in every way we can imagine....oh twill be the day....Cause what will we do?!! Oh of course there will have to be a war like none we have ever imagined. Once you're the bully...you tend to stay that way and absorb enemies (like we absorbed England and sucked its dominance to us). The thing is...the eastern culture is soooo drastically different that our that we won't be able to form a good "lasting" partnership with China ever. We're too different I think. Anyway who wants to go root out the true evil?!

-edit- heh...I forgot to post the url which was the whole point of my post....here it is...
<a href="http://www.rootingoutevil.org" target="_blank">www.rootingoutevil.org</a>

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: Al Koholic ]</small>

[photonic]

Is that a joke? That's probably one of the most ignorant statements I've ever heard.

No doubt the patriot act is a crock of shit. You guys should read it. If you go to <a href="http://www.eff.org" target="_blank">www.eff.org</a> i think there is a large petition for revoking it.
You ought to sign that,Not wish for the most tyrannical government in the world to conquer one that ,for the most part, allows its citizens a great degree of freedom. If this guy had an explosives website that didn't advocate overthrowing the government, he probably wouldn't have been arrested. Once again, I reiterate, the patriot act is completely unconstitutional, but the sheeples allowed it. The US government is not nearly as pathetic as the population that allows it to do this.

Back to China, would you like to live under a government that controls and censors the internet? That forces you to have an abortion after 1 child. We may arrest innocent protesters(if this guy is innocent. I'm not familiar with the case) but we don't run them over with tanks.

Many people may think this is a mindless defense of the system I was taught. However, its not. I'm fully aware of the problems within the government. Unfortunately, I can't see the solution. I can't envision a system that completely prohibits human corruption from being able to infringe on the liberties of others. If you can, run for president and I'll vote for you. I encourage everybody here to visit <a href="http://www.eff.org" target="_blank">www.eff.org</a> and sign the petition against the patriot act. It is far to vague to make me comfortable, but unless you want to steam rice and eat tank tread don't support China.

[nbk2000]

I had a good laugh at that website. It's true in a way. We DO have the most firepower on the planet. :)

However, I noticed how it's endorsed by a whole lot of CANADIAN groups. Hmmm...canadians. This, the great white socialist state? The same state that strips its citizens of the their guns (because they might hurt themselves :p ), their freedom of speech (lest you offend someone with thought crime), and insists on adhering to a corrupt government that taxes the shit out of its citizens, yet nothing works right?

Oh, and your military is a pathetic joke, having been defanged by a pacifistic government that, while decrying the US "aggression", is also fully dependant on said US "aggression" to protect it.

China?! Oh please. They're turning into a democracy within a few decades, whether the goons in power want it or not. It's inevitable. People, universally, want the stuff that their neighbors have, but that they don't. Things like cars (instead of bikes), food, freedom, etc. The old commie leaders know it's coming, but they're fighting it to the end, having to use repression to delay the end that's coming for them.

Sooner or later the wall will fall in china, and then it's going to be party time! :D

[darkdontay]

I'm not sure you trust in him, but you might try Alex Jones
<a href="http://www.infowars.com" target="_blank">http://www.infowars.com</a> or <a href="http://www.alexjones.com" target="_blank">http://www.alexjones.com</a>
He has some ideas and belives on things and give locations to find some of the information... But I'm allways weary for the possiblity of Dis-information. You will find what you are looking for. That is true, so running with that if you want to place a lot of Dis-information out their use little bits of truth and mold it so that it twists thoughs reading it.. Logical things can be made to sound blasphemis if people do not want to hear it.

[Sam]

Having read nbk2000 and Pu239 Stuchtigers posts further up the page, it reminded me of the 'invincible' black boxes in the planes which were destroyed in the fires, and how the planes were completely loaded with jet fuel. Conveniently inconvenient coincidences? I think not.

[nbk2000]

You have to remember that, when the WTC towers collapsed, you had a quarter million tons of steel and concrete tumbling more than 1,000 feet, to land in a huge burning pile that continued to burn for more than a week.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

That's just a liitttlleee bit more than the black boxes were designed to withstand. The fact that no intact bodies (nor body parts larger than hand sized) were found, and nothing but paper survived intact, attests to the forces at work.

As for the one that smashed into the field, I think it was shot down, but the government will deny it because of the stink it'd cause if someone had given the order to shoot it down. Even though it was the logical thing to do given the circumstances.

[knowledgehungry]

Of course the planes where filled with jet fuel, they were from the East coast bound to the west coast. The fact that they were filled with jet fuel was the precise reason tat the terrorists chose those particular planes. It is not a coincidence, it was planned by the terrorists, not the government.

[Anthony]

I feel the need to defend Canada, it being part of the Commonwealth :)

To be fair, it's not a very "US" country (obviously) so they won't immediately be running around with nukes shouting noisily. The people do seem quiet (and funny) but they really don't seem to be bad people. IMO they don't seem to suffer from the same degree of BS that occurs in the US, such as kids being detained by the FBI and CIA for wearing a "not my president" Tshirt to school.

Let us not forget that during WW2, whilst the US was sitting on it's hands going: "hmm, what's our military look like? Well sir, we've got 20 dozen civial war muskets, 2ton of black powder, a couple of biplanes, a rubber dingy, half a gattling and those new "grenade" thingies the serg brought back from his trip to France". Canadian men were already battling it out with the Fuhrer.

Just to throw some controversy into the debate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[nbk2000]

Them's is fighting words mister!
Has there been anything of any import to come from canada in the last few decades besides Wayne Gretzky or RUSH, eh? :p

If, somehow, the canadian way of thinking was swapped into every american, do you think we (they) would have bothered going to the moon? I seriously can't imagine a canadian boldly going where has no man has gone before. (GET YOUR MIND OUT THE GUTTER! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

No, the canucks would have been content with drinking a brewskie while watching hockey as the commies landed on the moon and built orbital bombardment stations to bury the decandant west.


"We wouldn't want to have any conflict, eh?" :rolleyes:


Time to get biblical on these foolz! Revelation 2:14-22

“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.”

Lord forbid we offend anyone. The few canadians I've met have been the most bland and plain vanilla type of people I've ever known (excluding the pedophile).

Americans are hot, russians cold, and canadians...blech!

It wasn't a canadian to fly solo across the atlantic, or solo around the world in a plane or ballon, or to the deepest hole in the ocean, or parachute from the highest point in space, etc. Nope, not a one. Where's the canuck adventurers and daredevils? (No SuperDave, either).

Eh? Eh? Eh?

[A-BOMB]

But who landed on the beaches of normandy? Who made the millions of plans, tanks, and ships? Who nuked japan?(multiple time I might add)

[Al Koholic]

Photonic...Im not saying that Chinese rule is necessarily any more free than we are or that they are worse. All im saying is that given our current economic situation and china's current situation that there will be a clash between the two countries in the relatively new future and nbk is right I think that china will be a democracy in the not too distant future. I'll admit that the US is still relatively 'free'...but when you really think about it, its not. I dont believe that freedom is possible unless youre out living under a system that YOU devise for yourself. That being the case, id love to be off somewhere remote when China and the US start fighting for dominance so I can let them lay waste to each other (and whatever other countries get involved) and then there can be a happy, government free, post-apocalyptic like world to inhabit in the remains.

Edit: Quote : I can't envision a system that completely prohibits human corruption from being able to infringe on the liberties of others.

I personally think the system you are trying to envision is no system. When can you be completely free? Well when you exist...100% under your own volition and choice and are not restricted in any way. The system has to arise intrinsically from you. Freedom for me does not mean being free within a systems set boundaries...it means me having NO one telling me what is right, wrong, what to do, etc etc...
Anyway...i wouldn't be elected...

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Al Koholic ]</small>

[Anthony]

"Has there been anything of any import to come from canada in the last few decades"

Canada has many fine exports! Brian Adams, Celine Dion, need I go on???

Come on guys, stand up to your unruly neighbour to the south!

fair game on French Canadians though. Tradition states that I cannot agree with, or like the French in any way (as whole, the individual members here at theforum are a great exception :) ).

In all fairness, sending man to the moon hasn't given America that great an advantage (considering it's cost). Surely if it had, they have put a man on Mars by now? That is something I would like to see, and as "leader of the free world" it's your collective responsibility to advance mankind in this fashion. Not running around using up defense budgets blowing up those who still believe the sun revolves around us...

Without competition the ruskies might not have landed a man on the moon, even if they had wanted to. By the time the US did it, AFAIK, the ruskies were still a long way off. Even if they had done, all the difference I think it would have made would be that Russia was even more broke and there'd be a hammer and sickle on there (except they would have realised that there wouldn't be any wind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).

They'd have hd neither the money, technology or motivation to build moon-based weapons capable of rendering the western world at their mercy.

Been associating with chesters NBK? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[knowledgehungry]

Well well look who has read the Bible. If it isnt our own NBK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Al Koholic]

"Canada has many fine exports! Brian Adams, Celine Dion, need I go on???"
Umm, yes you must go on...thats not very convincing! :p
Anyway yeah I suppose canada is pretty important just because of the economic brotherhood it provides us with....hmm...yeah. Unless someone can come up with a good heavy metal band that is based in canada Im going to have trouble looking past their decent skiing and low population.

No offense Anthony...just pokin fun! I live like 30 mins from the border after all and Canada has provided me with many 16 year old nights out drinking at stripclubs in Quebec where they dont give a damn how old you are! :p

[Anthony]

The exports where rather tongue-in-cheek :)

I'm guessing Kitty don't count as "heavy metal", or "good" :D

"Canada has provided me with many 16 year old nights out drinking at stripclubs in Quebec"

See, now you're going to have the Sceptics running over to Canada in hoards now! "Finally!" they will cry "a country with a sensible drinking culture!". I'm sure you guys all have remarkably good livers :)

[nbk2000]

Having been raised by bible-thumpers, I can quote the accursed book, chapter and verse, by memory.

As for the chester, could you imagine anything closer to hell on earth than being locked in a cell no bigger than the average bathroom for 23 hours a day with an old canadian pedophile who likes to quote the bible and some 19th century philosopher? FOR TWO MONTHS?!

This guy would cut out the color ads from the sunday inserts for kids underwear (kiddies wearing them in the pics) and paste them to the underside of my bunk (right over his head so he can daydream about them). :barf:

But, I was only a couple months to being paroled, so fucking him off wasn't an option. And getting a cell transfer was impossible because the institution was on lockdown because of the usual nor-sur war.

RUSH is a great rock band. Not their latest stuff (too mushy), but their early days ROCKED! :)

Brian Adams? Celine Dion? :confused: Do we need any MORE reasons to nuke canada? :D

[Energy84]

Fuck off NBK. You are the typical american, with all this bullshit "I'm better than everybody else and nobody can tell me otherwise". And then you expect others to respect you? Like hell! I'm quite the patriotic type and even though I don't like our current gov't, I'm ready to defend my country at all costs.

"Oh, and your military is a pathetic joke, having been defanged by a pacifistic government"

Sure our military is weak, but who needs muscle when you've got friends? That is definately one point that Canada has over the US. NOBODY likes the Americans by choice, ourselves included. When I say 'by choice' I mean that you guys are just plain rude, but we're all afraid to oppose you.

"Has there been anything of any import to come from canada in the last few decades besides Wayne Gretzky or RUSH, eh?"

Hmmm, lets see now. You guys are begging for our water resources, you're already buying electric power from Alberta and I believe that you also import oil from us too. And uhh, if Canada was of no worth to you, I suppose we could just disappear and take away that big ol' Alaska pipeline with us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

"the canucks would have been content with drinking a brewskie while watching hockey as the commies landed on the moon"

At least we can get drunk on our beer. Not like that watered down shit you got down there. Remember, if it freezes, it's no good :p

"It wasn't a canadian to fly solo across the atlantic, or solo around the world in a plane or ballon, or to the deepest hole in the ocean, or parachute from the highest point in space, etc. Nope, not a one. Where's the canuck adventurers and daredevils?"

Techically, it was the 'canuck adventurers' who came across the rest of North America after landing in what is now called Canada from Europe.

"But who landed on the beaches of normandy? Who made the millions of plans, tanks, and ships? Who nuked japan?(multiple time I might add)"

But who pushed what army all the way back to Washington (I think we even burnt your white house. I'm not the greatest with history.) when you pissed us off? And who was late to join WW2? And uhh, the guy that helped build the nuke that hit Japan btw, was a jew straight from Germany. A certain Albert Einstein I believe?

"fair game on French Canadians though."

Sorry Anthony, but I am a French Canadian.

[nbk2000]

"Sure our military is weak, but who needs muscle when you've got friends?"

And, uh, who would these friends be? Hmm...the US, perhaps? If it wasn't for the US being your southern neighbor, the soviets would have invaded, and conquered, you just like they did the euros to their west.

And, unlike the russians, we do business with people who have resources we need, rather than take it like we're more than capable of doing. If we wanted your country, or anything in it, we could take it and there'd be not a damned thing you could do to stop us. But, we don't, because we're (comparativly) nice guys.

It was the British Imperial army that burned washington (in 1812), not the candians. They just came from the northern provinces since that was the closet base of operations for the british army.

Yes, einstein was a jew...but not a CANADIAN jew. :p Your attempt at a red-herring won't work. :) And einstein had nothing to do with construction of the A-Bomb aside from convincing the president of the need to work on one. In fact, einstein believed an atomic bomb would have to be delivered by ship because it'd be too massive to be carrried by plane.

And if I lived in a country that gave rise to such musical superstars as Brian Adams and Celine Dion I, too, would need the strongest alcohol available to dull the pain of living with such knowledge. :p

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

The Alaska pipe line is in Alaska. And the museaum in Niagra Falls sucks badly, I mean a fake two headed animals exzipit.

[nbk2000]

Entirely true. If canada disappeared, the oil would still flow through the ALASKAN pipeline. NOT the "trans-canadian alaskan" pipeline.

[piggarro99]

To what was earlier said

at the end of 2001 we were paying hand over fist to keep our men alive and warm out in afghanistan and then there where repercussions like "why are we paying for nothing" and things like this..
3 hours after a summit was scheduled they reported to have found a cache of weapons that could kill us all.

George bush was under scrutiny in the white house for the fixing of votes in some of the large states. A general inquest was to be held...but hang on... someone flew some planes in and missed the runway 9/11/01

tony blair (english prime minister) was under verbal attack from many groups and there was to be a rather large satirical scoop on it due to the way the hospitals were run (National Health Service), but luckily that day ken livingston was egged and he punched a protester. So what could have been the end of office for the labour party actually turned in to the event of the year.

We all know that we are inside a propa-ganda machine every day of our lives and even those that call them selves non conformist and read between the lines fall further in to the theoretical turmoil that centuries of democracy has brought about.

well fuck the cunts

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: piggarro99 ]</small>

[Anthony]

I'm with Energy84 on this one - America can't make good beer. With the exception of Miller, but then only on draft :)

I knew someone would object to me comment about the French <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I have nothing against individual French people, French Canadians (or Americans for that matter), so don't take offense. Just, as you said, patriotism for you is important, and my being patriotist excludes acceptance of anything French (several hundred years of conflict dictates so) :) But then, you didn't take it seriously, did you???

Do you speak French as your primary language though? Or speak with a French accent?

The Soviets wouldn't have invaded :rolleyes: For a start, any beef they had was with America, so if America wasn't there, why would they invade Canada?

In all fairness, I do think Canadians' own modesty is what defeats them. They have been involved in nearly every major conflict that I can think of in the last century. Often when it wasn't in any of their interest to do so. But because they don't run around shouting "look what we did!", people tend to disregard them. Especially when there is the direct comparison of the Americans who show up near the end of something and then run around telling everyone how they "saved your ass". Let it also be noted that Americans do not take criticism well, and oddly percieve any criticism of their country or government as a personal attack :confused:

Piggarro, it was two-Jags Prescot that lumped the protestor.

[Energy84]

Thank you Anthony. And no I don't speak French primarily. But I do however speak it very fluently :p . I never was the best at organizing my ideas when writing or putting together arguements, but I think I got my point across anyways.
And NBK, on the subject of us having friends, I think I've already addressed the fact that we're only friends with the US because we have to be, as is everybody else. We don't need you. We have everything we need to survive up here.
Oh, I just remembered what I was going to say in my last post about notable Canadian achievements. Remember the Avro Arrow? First jet fighter to break the sound barrier. In fact, I think the Arrow was on par performance wise to your F/A-18. And this thing was built in the '50s!

[nbk2000]

What countries DIDN'T the commie ideology invade/take over when America wasn't there to prevent it?

Hmm...hungary? Invaded.

Cuba? Took over.

Korea? Took over.

Vietnam? Took over.

Syria, mozambique, yugoslavia, germany, and too many others to list.

They would have taken over canada quite readily since the canadians wouldn't have been able to resist them, have natural resources the commies would want, and are only 40 miles away via the bearing (SP?) striaghts. The proverbial hop, skip, and jump.

Only the American territorial interest of Alaska kept the commies at bay, otherwise they'd have just rolled right into the frozen land of the north.

And who needs beer when you've got the hottest chicks on the planet? :p

[vulture]

And who needs beer when you've got the hottest chicks on the planet?

This statement is exactly why more and more people are being offended by the US bragging with their superiority.
In a way, most americans conduct the old middle age way of "science". They have a fixed statement or belief which they defend heavily and which can't be proven wrong by anyone who doesn't share their beliefs (compare with middle age christian church).

I don't see either why you should be proud of a country which spends more money on acquiring power and resources for the rich part of the society (-&gt; military budget) than on social security, which is virtually non-existant in the US.

Oh, no, don't start with domino theory.
The commies would never have invaded Canada, as this would have been a very severe provocation to the US. I know you're going to say they also installed nuclear missiles in Cuba, but that didn't require large troop movements and there was no risk of a direct confrontation with US forces.

<small>[ December 14, 2002, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: vulture ]</small>

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Go Puerto Rico!

[Eliteforum]

This has gone a bit off topic!

[Anthony]

Viva la Canada!

We could always talk about RADAR instead :D

[photonic]

The reason people don't like the U.S. is because they're jealous. It always amuses me when foreigners rant about how much they hate the U.S. If our country is so terrible, how come we have to fight to keep people out of it? There were 11 million illegal aliens between 1990-1999 and they estimate that between now and 2010 14 million more will come. That's 25 million people who are willing to risk their life to enter our country.
You say that you only pretend to like us because you must. That is entirely your fault. You say we're proud and arrogant but the fact is we've accomplished much. For the most part, if we had not helped europe in WW2 everybody would be sucking Hitler right now. You say we always come in at the last minute and take credit for everything. That's because until we come in you're getting your ass kicked. All this anti-american sentiment is annoying. If you would quit sitting on your ass bitching about how much you hate america and work, then maybe your country wouldn't have to depend on us.
Also, who contributes more money in foreign aid than any other nation in the world? The United States. OUr foreign aid costs us more and gains us less yet we still do it.

[Yak]

I quite funny fact which i think (98% sure) is correct about Politics

Poli - Latin translation means 'Many'
Tics - Blood sucking creatures.
so politics means 'Many blood sucking creature[s]'

Rather funny I though, oh and on the topic (or rather offtopic as it is getting) I think that man Bush is a hypacritical (sorry for bad English) bastard, theres a thing called Freedom of speech and the right to possess knowlage as we all know yet he still stops us (well USA anyhow) from been able to find out how to make a thermo-nucleur bomb which in UK as I am, ive got a book of matter which states exacly how to make one with a diagram.

Also you cant stop up-risings unless your a dictator,fascist etc , which mr Bush 'says' he isnt yet he arrests a Anarchist, so what if he doesnt like society or thinks wankers like Bush shouldnt be in power, he cant arrest him.
If i remember correcly people like Stalin stoped people from been a "conciencise objector" I know its communism but hey, USA is acting like a Communism state at the moment anyhow.

[nbk2000]

You seem to be forgeting history.

During the cuban missle incident, as now related by the people involved, we (US/Soviets) were litterally just one shot away from armageddon. If one person, on either side, had fired a shot, the bombers in the air and the missles fueled in the silos would have gotten the signal to unlease hell.

We were very willing to fight WW3 because of the armed communist presence being so close to the US. We actively fought any communist presence anywhere in the americas. This was the only way to ensure our security. Otherwise it's a festering sore that can spread, just like it did in europe.

And it's because of such US protection of its sovereignty that canada doesn't have a hammer and sickle in its flag. No US to stop communist expansion, no free canada.

Puerto Rico is the 51st state in fact, if not law.

[photonic]

BUsh didn't arrest an anarchist. I suppose being from another country you're unfamiliar with how our government works. Who can blame you? I tried to research British politics and I was thoroughly confuse. BTW, what are MPs? Anyway, that's off topic. First somebody has to submit a bill(a senator, a congressman, a citizen,etc..) then it is debated over and if is either passed or thrown out. ONce it is passed, the president either signs it(thus making it a law), vetoes it(which congress can override), or leaves it alone for a certain amount of time which is the same as vetoing it. Now, I'm not sure but I think it would be reasonable to assume(i know. assuming makes an ass out of you and me) that Bush did not veto the act. However, he did not arrest that anarchists and he probably had no knowledge of it prior to its happening and probably still has no knowledge of it. He has bigger things to worry about than some jobless protester who thinks anarchy is a legitimate governmental system.

Sidenote: COuld somebody from the UK refer me to a website detailing the function of British government? I've been interested in that for a while. THanks.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

We Puerto Ricans saved the world! Hitler didn't actually commit suicide - we shot him! As he was about to summon an army of cyborgs from the firey belly of the earth! Puerto Rico forever, we rock your Yankee pansy asses! We invented the internet! Someday, we shall rise to international glory, and the world will be ours! Muhaha!

Luis Munoz Rivera has spoken.

[piggarro99]

Piggarro, it was two-Jags Prescot that lumped the protestor.

thanks antony, i knew it was someone like that, you know a fat back bencher on the wings of another man in power.

Another point is that Americans didnt quite invent the internet, it was the jewish technologists near the end of the 50's. It would seem that exatentialism was out and the time of the modem was in.

The reason that it was created was to help al those little scientists crawling around Antartica trying to find that oil. Then the americans got hold of it and the cia (or nearest predacessor) and used it for the logging of SCMOD'S (state county munissipal offence data system)

So we can all relish in the fact that the net was made purely for the surveillance and money. As a by product people liked it too.

[nbk2000]

To paraphrase Revelation 20:12-15

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">

And I saw the members, small and great, stand before Mega; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of RTPB: and the members were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And whosoever was not found written in the book of RTPB was cast into the lake of HED.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">You, piggarro99, have not been found written in the book, thus are you cast into the lake of HED, there to burn for eternity with much gnashing of teeth and chewing of tongue. :)

Have a nice day. :D

[Anthony]

photonic, an MP is a Member of Parliment, like the whitehouse senators. The UK system is pretty similar to the US system, but that in our system, the Prime Minister (president) doesn't get the last word, it's either the House of Parliment of the House of Lords (I forget which) that gets to say whether a proposed law gets passed.

I don't think the Cuban Missile Crisis would have created WW3, just a US-Soviet war that everyone else would have been very reluctant to get involved in.

A lot of countries has problem with illegal immigrants! I know we sure as hell do.

"For the most part, if we had not helped europe in WW2 everybody would be sucking Hitler right now"

*runs to the hills screaming in desperation*

Seriously, that kind of statement (and level of ignorance/arrogance) has reached the stage where you're sterotyping yourself.

Like I said, want to talk about RADAR?

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

I have to hand it to you, that was the funniest way of delivering HED yet.

But, seriously, this thread has devolved into an amazingly stupid argument, in case noone realized that that is what I've been hinting at. Why don't we argue about sports while we're at it?

[nbk2000]

This thread has devolved. Time to get the final word in:

Rugby sucks! Soccer blows!

Football rules! Baseball rocks!

:p

In the 60's, if the US and Russia had started fighting, it would have been WW3. Wouldn't matter if your country didn't fight because the fallout from 20,000 nukes would be EVERYWHERE!

PS. RADAR blows too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />