Texas Scientists Beware the Gestapo!

[megalomania]

And so it begins. My fellow amateur scientists and experimenters it has recently come to my attention that a rather loathsome and seemingly unconstitutional law has been secretly enacted in the state of Texas in the USA. The law makes all scientists yet another of the many victims to the war on drugs.
I am referring to statute 481.080 which makes the possession of certain chemicals and laboratory equipment a criminal offence! The law has been enacted by the Texas Health and Safety which makes violators subject to a misdemeanor charge with a fine of up to $4000. To comply with the law an scientist must submit a form to the Texas Department of Public Safety Narcotics Service declairing what chemical of equipment they have. The 2 page form is at least free, but its still an inexcusable invasion of privacy relegating all scientists to the status of drug makers. See it in action here: <a href="http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/he/he0048100.html" target="_blank">http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/he/he0048100.html</a> titled Chemical Laboratory Apparatus Record-keeping.
This law marks the first to require a license for laboratory equipment. Previously some very large size manufacturing equipment and three necked flasks were potentially illegal if found with drugs, but to require someone to sign away their rights… The law says you must submit to a search at any time if you own this equipment! Submit to a search at their will? What is the world coming too? Another nail in the coffin of civil liberties.

The specifically legislated chemicals include the usual drug precursors as found on the DEA watch list:
1. Methylamine
2. Ethylamine
3. D-lysergic acid
4. Ergotamine tartrate
5. Diethyl malonate
6. Malonic acid
7. Ethyl malonate
8. Barbituric acid
9. Piperidine
10. N-acethylanthranilic acid
11. Pyrrolidine
12. Phenylacetic acid
13. Anthranilic acid
14. REMOVEDFROMLIST
15. Ephedrine
16. Pseudoephedrine
17. Norpseudoephedrine
18. Phenylpropanolamine

The list of forbidden equipment seems quite overzealous and arbitrary:
1 Condensers
2 Distilling Apparatus
3 Vacuum Dryers
4 Three-Necked Flask
5 Distilling Flask
6 Tableting Machine
7 Encapsulating Machine
8 Filter Funnel
9 Buchner Funnel
10 Separatory Funnel
11 Erlenmeyer flask
12 Two-Necked Flask
13 Single Necked Flask
14 Round Bottom Flask
15 Florence Flask
16 Thermometer Flask
17 Filtering Flask
18 Soxhlet Extractor
19 Transformers
20 Flask Heater
21 Heating Mantle
22 Adaptor Tube

They made flasks illegal? Come on, what will they stoop to next. Sounds like a remake of Nazi Germany coming on; first they register us, and before we know it we are getting gassed in the concentration camps. This law will in no way shape or form have any effect on drugs. It will only serve to criminalize the law abiding citizens. Next they will bring felony charges on anyone who dares use a pickle jar in any other manner than the “intended use.”

It is really disturbing how that can so callously disregard a persons 4th Amendment rights protecting against unwarranted search and seizure. They assume just because you have a flask you must be making drugs, and therefore can’t be trusted. Instead of putting cops on the street taking down dealers they just figure this approach will work. This is disgusting.

[darkdontay]

They made just about every type of flask contraband. Come one that would make just about any store bought home chemistry set for your son illegal. I know that is stretching it but that seems to be a logical step to the audacious law. This is not a war on drugs it is a war on Knowledge and Liberties if you have either they want both. They want us dumb, blind and with out thought or action. Do they really think this will accomplish something, or is it just a "Easter Egg" some they can use it to refer to when trying to pass stricter more thoughtless laws. I never thought I would see the day when shit like this happens.

Normaly you would laugh and say that someone is just getting overly paranoid when they tell you the Gov't is trying to pass laws uch as this, ulgy as it is. Unfortunaly it got passed. I would love to her fomr Chemistry and Biology, frankly any Science student currently studing in Texas, what are thir thoughts and view. Did they even knew that this law was up for debate before it as passed into law?

Do we have any members from Texas?

[Al Koholic]

Wow. That sure is a spectacle they're putting on. What I'd like to know is if you register with them and claim the posession of 1 filter funnel, just what they'd do. Would they search you're house because you had 1 funnel? I'm surprised they left graduated cylinders off the list...or measuring cups...or hey...what about coke bottles?! Those have volumes printed on the side and that could be used to measure out solvents....for making drugs...yeah thats it...making drugs!
God this is almost inhumanly retarded.

[vulture]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">God this is almost inhumanly retarded.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">It's not the people who passed this that are retarded. It's the people that allowed this law to be passed that are retarded! Blinded by the heist for the war on terror.

[Ezekiel Kane]

I'm from Texas... Wow, that's bullshit. Seriously, these assholes have no respect for our privacy or work as amateur scientists. I suppose this means all of the rogue labs around here are going to have to become rather clandestine.

[chemwarrior]

As the quote for the Precursors section reads-

The land beneath our feet, the air in our lungs, the trees on the horizon.
All are sources of chemicals.
No legislation can ban them, no government can control them, no soldier can take them.
If industry can do it, so can I.

Let 'em ban them. It will just cause them more grief in trying to regulate them while we discover newer and better ways of making the chemicals from, simpler, more difficult to ban ones.

As for them banning labware, thats pretty damn sad. Anyone who is going to use the labware for making drugs is [sarcasm] tell them they have the naught, forbidden labware [sarcasm/] Yeah the hell right! Let the law enforement run after the the 'terrible, horrible, drug proliferators!'

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: chemwarrior ]</small>

[EP]

Wow, that's stupid! Here is something amusing about chemical restrictions in europe:
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/23/nteeth23.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/02/23/ixhome.html" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/02/23/nteeth23.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/02/23/ixhome.html</a>

[chemwarrior]

That is pretty sad EP. I have trouble thinking of any sort of bleach as being illegal, though at this rate, water will be banned by 2010!

[megalomania]

Here is the real kick in the pants: what drug manufacturer is going to bother registering their equipment in the first place?

This law is designed to keep tabs on law abiding citizens in the hopes that new laws will make them non-law abiding citizens. By then they can be rounded up.

The only possible legitimate use for this law is to add yet another charge to the long list of things they can pile on. WHile reading the other parts of the entire statute I noticed some other disturbing bits. One could interprete the law in such a way that mere posession of ammonia is enough for them to declare you a meth maker. You may have to have other chemicals along with ammonia, but those other chemicals could be acetone, paint thinner, hydrochloric acid, or any of several other common lab chemicals. Heavens help you if you ever get a cold and have some cold tablets on hand... Everyone who has ammonia is a meth maker now I guess.

Lets try this my Texas friends, make your ammonia only as needed. No ammonia, no violation. Keep any excess as ammonium chloride.

This chemical combo laws could be even more dangerous to the rest of us because there may already be such laws. I can see if someone has 3 or 4 chemicals used to make meth in one container, but not general laboratory reagents like ammonia, HCl, and solvents. In fact the burden of proof should be on the cops backs, no drugs, no crime.

The government wants to use a sledgehammer to kill the fly, citizens be dammed. This is a sign they are losing the war, and they don't care who they hurt along the way.

[Al Koholic]

Vulture...I realize that :) . What I meant was it's inhumanly retarded of both the residents (to whom this applies, which unfortunately isn't many otherwise this may have been more opposed) of Texas as well as a serious lack of judgement on the governments behalf. As has been already well stated by others in this thread, the people they are trying to control will be the ones developing new ways of producing what they want. If and when this becomes a tool for the oppression of non-criminal people, there will be much reason for protest but I wouldn't put money on that happening with any real force. Although one can never be sure and a scenario such as was outlined by Mega could well come to exist too...

The problem is...the restrictions only affect labware holders which are probably on the order of .01 % of the Texas population...just a guess.

[darkdontay]

You are right Mega in that the Law is designed to oth entrap and scare the public citizen. As you have already stated NO company will register their equipment, and they will never be checked. But little billy getting some stuff to help in his Highschool chemistry class might fro get and then find himself in prison for 25 years as a Domestic Terrorist. These laws are just made to carral us into a tight herd like the Jews* , were we belive we are living freee cause it will be illegal to think other wise
[*sorry to any one offended by the jew remark...a better one would be the japanese americans that were held in AMERICAN consenration camps during the second world war. It was all volentary and you could leave at anytime, everyone that did was shot dead. So out accurate to out future.]

We have to watch that we not allow this outrageous laws to be passed. Any one in Texas needs to make as much of a stink about it as possible contact your local and other radio stations your local a state goverment, and get everyone else you can involved in it. Callll the TV stations try and get soem media coverage to it. cause if you push the "Company wopuld have to Register aslo" point then the major manufactuing compnays would let some money slide hands and hopfully either the law wil be abolished or the people could see how corrupt the system is and vote to abolish the law. Once again these ae only my opinons.

[Ezekiel Kane]

You know, I've read that there have been no new Texas state laws passed in the last year...meaning this law is at least a year old. If that's the case, this isn't really a major thing, because for the past year I haven't noticed any difference in the Texas community. They probably don't enforce it. Sodomy is also illegal to an extent down here, but you dont see cops busting in on guys getting "too friendly."

[Al Koholic]

Yeah there are a lot of laws that have either never had any real application or are now too out of date to bother enforcing. Like the sodomy laws. I once heard that there is a LAW in Maryland and a few other states that prohibits the wife from sleeping on the right side of the bed with her husband. The reason the law is there is because it was passed in the early 1800's and then was a matter of tradition and fairly important. Now its hogwash and would be too much hassle to bother getting rid of it. I'm not sure if this is true but I have a feeling that this Texas law will become un-enforced to a large degree. Sure if some guy is "dealing" illegal lab equipment on a large scale they will track him down of course but for the average Texas resident...not too big a deal.

Darkdontay, the problem with getting every Texas resident up in arms about such an injustice is that very few Texas residents could actually care less about it. Most people that live there don't own any lab equipment at all and those that have a little probably don't give a shit cause they're not registering. That's counting the people in Texas who actually know this is going on. It's not something that will make the news thats for sure. Anyway, you're right in that it is an underhanded tactic by the government which makes it all that more important to leave a small footprint in your day to day "illegal lab equipment" activities but to be honest if I lived in Texas right now and had a nice lab setup in my garage, I wouldn't really care what new law they pass since it will more than likely never have any effect on my lab. If people are doing things THAT out of the ordinary and being THAT blatantly obvious about what they're doing that the government finds out about it, they weren't being smart about their activities in the first place.

[Nihilist]

It doesn't matter whether or not this law is enforced, what matters is that it CAN be enforced. Which means that if a cop doesn't like you for any reason and then they happen to notice a bottle of ammonia cleaning fluid in your garage they can arrest you can call you a terrorist. Since just about everyone has a bottle or two of ammonia, that means that for all intensive purposes the cops can arrest anyone they want at any time. Not to say that this will start happening in the near future, the problem is that it could, the potential is there.

[Anthony]

Thankfully there is still some sense in the actual courts.

Any based on the "evidence" of "we found a bottle of ammonia/a plastic funnel in his kitchen!" is going to get immediately thrown out.

Unfortunately you still have to go through the hassle of being arrested, detained and bailed...

[Al Koholic]

Exactly...it would be thrown out immediately. To be honest, I'm not even sure you'd even get arrested for shit like that. I mean, the federal government shows teeth all day but when it comes down to it, you are being arrested by people who themselves have ammonia in their kitchens as well and can probably tell the difference between a guy with 55 gallons of 30% NH3 and a dude with generic supermarket brand from the local store...

[megalomania]

A law like this still paves the way for even more insideous laws to come. The jews began with registration, which seemed quite reasonable at the time... This law was passed just over one year ago now. They slip this one in, no one raises a stink, then they slip another in, and another, and another. Where does it end? With all scientific curosity crushed by the government.

I didn't mean to imply that legit companies would not register, I meant "illegal" drug makers, ie meth dealer types churning out crank in the basement. They arn't going to register, hell no. Only little Timmy will when teacher says he has too. When so much as a firecracker goes off near little Timmy's house and old lady Cermudgeon calls the bacon, who's will be the first door broken down?

The police are building the mindset by conditioning the people. They tell the sheep "look, everyone who makes drugs (gasp) or explosives (cringe) had... had... FLASKS! (and the sheeple cower and wail in terror at the invocation of the dark word of science). Therefore we, the brave and all knowing police (may their names be reverened on high) have wisely decided all wielders of the black cauldrins known as FLASKS! (more wailing) must be criminals."

In their minds when they find a criminal has a flask, all people who have flasks must be criminals. That's like saying when a rapist has a penis all men with penises must be rapists, or all drunk drivers kill with cars, so all cars must be full of drunk drivers. Their conclusions are skewed.

No good could possible come from a law like this. One would think the presence of drugs should be enough. The cops don't like to lose their precious war so they invent other crimes when they can't find any. This is where mere posession of chemicals or labware makes you a criminal. I don't think posession of ammonia is enough, but if you also had HCl you are in trouble. The law was not clear (being in legalese) so you might have to have any three precursor chemicals, but those precursors are so common as to be in anyone's posession.

One should not have to rely on the good judgement of the courts to determine if you are a criminal or not. The very existence of these laws could mean you are in trouble. It should not be illegal in the first place to posess ammonia, but the very fact it could be is quite disturbing. Courtrooms are not always fair; there are a lot of innocent people in prison and violent people out on the streets.

[inferno]

***Mental note: add this law to <a href="http://www.dumblaws.com" target="_blank">http://www.dumblaws.com</a> (for those of you who don't know it, that is a real site, with all the old laws, such as taxis in Australia/England by LAW must have a bale of hay in the boot....a remnant of horse and carriage days, where a bale of hay was needed to feed horses.)

That really is pathetic - it is amazingly close to getting to a complete banning of ANYTHING that could be used to use/make drugs/drug paraphenalia - bongs, scales, pipes, papers, measuring cups, measuring spoons, graduated cylinders, medicine cups, stirring rods, hell, soon soft drink companies will be told they can't print the volume of their bottles, as drug makers will use them to measure out their synths!

[Trinitrotoluene]

I also remember theres some kind of law in CA that restricts labware.I had read from the hive on some thread talking about that if you have over $100 worth of glassware/chems in CA you will get nailed for conspireing to manufacture.I guess it really sucks for CA people because glassware is just so expensive.

[Haggis]

Right, as stated on www.al-chymist.com (they are based in California) if you purchase more that 100 dollars worth of glassware, they are required to sumbit your information to the DEA for 'processsing'. I guess anyone who buys 100 dollars or more worth of glassware is automatically manufacturing crank.

[Trinitrotoluene]

Yea what really sucks is the dificulty of finding a distilling apparatus for under $100. Does anyone know that if you order from another state, and the labware gets shiped to you, which is over $100 spending for CA people, are the companyies not in CA required to report it to the DEA?

[Aaron-V2.0]

Tri, is this (http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=4) what your looking for? Second item from the bottom.

[subsonic]

It's not my business, but you really got a serious problem over there, I feel with you.

[Kid Orgo]

Godammit. This war on drugs shit has gone too far.

The TV says that if I smoke weed, I sponsor terrorists.

Why is weed profitable? Cuz the gov't banned it. It's untaxed, unregulated, and in high demand. It's risky. If the terrs really are making money off of drugs, why don't we ask uncle sam?


I believe the Patriot Act also bans bongs and glassware, or at least places restrictions on their manufacture, sale, and possession, regardless of marijuana actually being present.

I hate you, GW.

[tmp]

Prohibitions never work ! You would think that those in power would have learned
from alcohol prohibition. It doesn't matter if it's alcohol, guns, drugs, explosives,
or even pornography. If people want it, they will obtain it despite the laws.
Prohibitionists have an axe to grind. Their stupid laws are passed to intimidate
the weak and weaken our civil liberties. They're paranoid control freaks.

[aliensniper]

Ugghh, this really bothers me. First Texas, then other states will follow suit. Then, next thing you know, it's illegal to own glass cups and were're all using platstic/paper cups!

As mentioned, nobody producing the drugs are going to submit to this, unless they blab it out to someone, or the police arrest them for something else, nobody will ever know they have it.

[vulture]

The STASI would have been proud of the OHS. Sneaking resctrictrive laws through the government, scapegoating, labeling undesirable elements as terrorists, undercutting any possible attempt at arming/defending yourself by making even remote precursors illegal, brainwashing the population to make them believe the things above EXPAND their freedom and last but not least trying to recruit a large part of the population as spies under the TIPS program.

I know TIPS has been abandoned, but there are enough US citizens that'll call the FBI if you say something bad about the Government, FBI, GWB,etc. It happened to a Belgian reporters family in NY.

You can say many bad things about the OHS, but they've got their civies covered.

[Cricket]

When they banned alcohol it didn't go away. Hell no, it went underground. And the people that sold it made much money. Supporting their other less legal activities, making them more money and essentially creating organised 'criminals'. I can see a time when there are people like a flak jacket, buying glassware or chemicals and selling them underground, taking all the flak. With nothing to hide, what could happen? When the government comes to steal their life for cooking dope and they find nothing, what will they do? They will make a law saying one person can buy only 'x' of 'y' without obtaning a 'z' permit. And of course this permit will be an inventation to be fucked in the 'a' by the government. After they make everything illegal and everyone is a criminal, what can they do? Put us all in jail? But then who will pay them? It will not work for them in the long run. But in the short run, many poor fellers will be fucked over and part of (if not the rest of) their life stolen. And 90% of them will not be cooking dope or blowing up buildings. I'm sad for them. A criminal is someone who breaks the law. So to stop someone from breaking the law, they make more laws to be broken? Surely more opportunity to break the law will result in people not breaking the law. We can all see how well gun controll works, how well chemical controll works, and how well the 'justice system' works by buying some meth. The guy selling it probably has at least one illegal gun (either an unregistered pistol, or a sawed off shotgun), a criminal history for selling the shit before (also making any gun illegal, except black powder weapons I think), and of course the actual meth (along with all the chems needed to make and, hopefully, purify it). So it's obvious that these laws have the least influence on the people they were designed to thwart, and the most on people that pose no more of a threat to anything than anyone else.

[me234]

They fucking the chemists while nobody is looking, all eyes are on Afganistan, nobody cares if the gov't doesn't actually tell us when passing a new law, they're too concerned wil the War On Terrorism, what do they really expect some kid with a buchner funnel to be making shit? Damn, civil liberties you fuckheads, big brother is taking advantage of the war time like climate to do whatever dirty things they've been trying to do for a while now, people are going to see this and think:"well if it helps the war on terror, so be it", well fuck them for being so blind, so childish as to let the government make their decisions for them, they just want to be led, 1984, This Perfect Day, shit, here we go, in fact SHI'ITE. The only good news here is that they seem more interested in drugs than explosives, so far, give them time I say. Fuckers!

[Lead Storm]

I live in Texas and i have 1 distilling apperatus, 5 earlenmayer flasks, 6 beakers and other assorted scientific equipment and im not looking through prison bars. No "matress tag police" kicking down my door. This law is not inforceable.:rolleyes:

[YayItGoBoom!]

Now that is just sad... Even though its ridiculously unenforceable, it is still ONE more law taking away civil liberties. I see an America where one day everyone lives in a saran wrap suit and doesn't move around too much, as to avoid all chance of breaking a law/being a terrorist/being liable for lawsuit. Well, I might as well get a head start, and buy my poster of Big Brother right now. I got it from this site if you want one for yourself Big Brother (http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/gwbbio.html) . Oh, and if you're buying a poster, you will have to sign a document waiving all constitutional rights to the Ministry of Patriotism, and be succeptable to a cavity search at any time.

[Snowfist1971]

Ha! Ha!

I'm glad I read this thread because I lived most of my younger life in Texas and never even was aware that this law was even coming though I didn't often frequent people who would want to be in the know. I can even remember a store in my home town(in the 80's no less)called Sunrise records that sold glassware right out in the open --just about any lab glassware you could possibly want. What's more, the store in as much as made it clear the glassware was intended for drug synthesis as it had one of those 60's throwback motifs to it with recent copies of HIGH TIMES being sold only spitting distance away from the glassware.

Ha! Ha! Maybe I'll make a trip to that part of town next time I visit family and see if it's still open just for grins now that I know about this law. For the longest time the local P.D. couldn't close it down because they couldn't prove that it was actually a drug outlet though every one with an ounce of sense within 20 miles knew it had to be.

[u4ea]

I don't want to come across as some retard, but does anyone have any links to drug synthesis? I'm not interested in setting up a meth lab in my basement or anything like that, but the war on drugs is ridiculous so I figure I could do my small part by excercising my right to have access to the information. Thanks in advance.

[vulture]

UTFSE!

Hive?

And yes, you do come across like the average retard who's to ignorant to type www.google.com in their address bar.

[Sarevok]

Searching Google for "drug synthesis" brings Rhodium (http://www.rhodium.ws/) as #1! You can also look at The Hive (http://www.the-hive.ws/), as vulture said. Searching the forum brings you the book Total Synthesis (http://chemister.fannet.ru/Books/Chembooks/Praktikum/total_synthesis_II.djvu).

[Voyager]

The value (to the state) of these laws is during the plea bargaining process.

Let's say you're a DA and you arrest a drug dealer. Years ago, you charged the drug dealer with selling drugs. Now though, you charge him with dealing, with 40 counts of illegal ownership of glassware, with posession, with intent to distribute, with living close to a school zone, with having a gun in his closet while being a drug dealer, etc... etc...

Basically, you scare the defendant into pleading to whatever charge you want. Then, you let him slide on the other ancilliary charges.

This is how the court system works now.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." -- Ayn Rand in Atlas Shrugged (1957)

[Voyager]

This TX thing got me pretty riled up, so I did some research into the laws here in Colorado.

The good news is that chemistry equipment is not illegal in Colorado. Heck, we don't even have a 21 day waiting period. ;-)

Most of our "chemical" laws seem to relate to sugar beets and honey bees.

However, we don't come off completely clean.

Possession of the following items constitutes a Class 4 felony in Colorado:

(b) (I) "Explosive or incendiary parts" means any substances or materials or combinations thereof which have been prepared or altered for use in the creation of an explosive or incendiary device. Such substances or materials may include, but shall not be limited to, any:

(A) Timing device, clock, or watch which has been altered in such a manner as to be used as the arming device in an explosive;

(B) Pipe, end caps, or metal tubing which has been prepared for a pipe bomb;

(C) Mechanical timers, mechanical triggers, chemical time delays, electronic time delays, or commercially made or improvised items which, when used singly or in combination, may be used in the construction of a timing delay mechanism, booby trap, or activating mechanism for any explosive or incendiary device.


Source: Colorado Revised Statute 18-12-109

[me234]

That's bullshit man, what happens if you want to improvise a time delay for a science project huh? say you want to turn on a light in 20 minutes time for said project, what about readymade count down timers for that express purpose, is it illeagal to buy those too? "(B) Pipe, end caps, or metal tubing which has been prepared for a pipe bomb" you mean an end cap, the kind they sell in hardware stores across the world? the kind that doesn't really need any kind of alteration?
"or commercially made or improvised items which, when used singly or in combination, may be used in the construction of a timing delay mechanism, booby trap, or activating mechanism for any explosive or incendiary device" you mean the aforemantioned count-down timers? scooby wire? steel wool? fucking masking tape? These are bullshit laws that just make it easier to convict people who the can't convict for the chemical or explosives charges, like Ragnar Benson who keeps his NM seperate from his AN, and therefore cannot be convisted on an explosives charge, but he has an alarm clock, send his ass off to jail. I apologize if it sounds like I'm giving you shit for your post, I'm not, those laws are pissing me off, thank you rather for enlightening the rest of us as to some of the laws in that part of the world, all information is good to have.

[Mendeleev]

Jesus Christ, fuck the chemicals, they are banning glass! Not even glass, but containers. How can the law ever be enforced? A flask is defined as a container having a narrow neck. Okay, everybody with a beer bottle in the fridge go register. Frankly that it can't be enforced doesn't even matter, it's the principle, they can't just make shit illegal at will. What the fuck have they come too? I generally tend to avoid stereotypes, but I swear to God I am beginning to believe that everybody in Texas is a dumbshit redneck sonofabitch whose thoughts revolve around hunting and oil.

There is nothing we can really do in Texas because they are full of idiots, the only way is to take it to a national level. If anybody watches law and order in here, I get the impression that the courts are really technical in terms of sticking to the constitution and all sorts of legal documents if you could actually get it to the supreme court I think there would be a good chance of overturning it. But like I said not enough people care to get it to the supreme court.

So what the hell if you are a glass blower? Next they ban sand and boric acid?! Sorry people, can't go to the beach, contains elements used in the preparation of equipment used for the preparation of chemicals used in the preparation meth. Horseshit. I hope the legislators choke on horseshit. It would be their most deserving fate.

What saddens me most is that no one gives a shit. Many people have emphasized how the law was sneaked in. So what? Can you be sure that if the entire Texas population was aware and asked to vote on this law that they would vote against it? Let's face it 90% of the population are working class idiots. There's a good chance they would support it, because they are idiots whose knowledge of chemistry probably ends with making guacamole. They don't care that it's against the constitution, they are too stupid to understand what half the shit on that list is much less use it, so they figure ban it since it in no way concerns their lives.

Lets say they begin enforcing that law in full force, and a bunch of well-meaning non-druggie chemists get their private property pillaged. So? The bunch of well-meaning non-druggie chemists makes up about 2% of the population. The other 98% won't blink a fucking eyelid, because chemistry constitutes a grand total of .000000000000000000000001% of their thoughts, if that. So basically we're fucked.

[Ropik]

When I read this, I almost bathed in lucky feeling that I'm not in Texas. I have almost full list of this "banned glassware" in my laboratory. Also, I have certainly over 100 dollars in the glass (vacuum distilling apparatus below 100 Dollars??? Nonsense!). I think that second law from this serie will ban lemons(citric acid can be made from them), water(very effective solvent), matches(you can get red phosphorus from strikers) etcetera. Third will ban chemistry people. This would be best! Anyone found with any glassware will be shot down immediatelly! No money spend to judge them anymore! Simple and effective.
By the way, I would like to see the "DEA watch list of people with dangerous glassware". It would be very short indeed:rolleyes:.

[FUTI]

I always think about prohibition as a way the certain people in power are getting richer than before. It was in the case of alcohol, it will be the same with many other things.

It is true that terorist finance their operation with drugs and/or drug money, but the goverments make that rules. In the cold war era same agencies that now try to stop the "devil" used it's services gladly for that was the best way to finance spy operations (a desperate junky in need for a speed won't ask where did you get it...or will his money go to charity purpose - which makes it perfect gold substitute in economical sphere of life). It is just a case that best weed and poppy on this planet is growing on its parts mostly inhabited with people of Islamic religious belief and that America has certain unresolved issues with this guys. Where did they hide all this years so far when this guys work without any obstacles.

In Amsterdam you can buy weed in shop and use it... no questions asked until border when they search you because you have enter in their register when you buy a weed (you must show your passport to the seller) which they do mostly to please the other countries - but as you see no prohibition, no high prices, no overwhelming cry and demand of population, no criminalisation of society.

It is idiotic to get labware banned... banning certain chemicals is stupid but really work of a genius compared to labware ban (anyway some chemicals on this list makes little sense - malonate for example).

Do you know that there is a UN list of controled substance that every country should implement in their laws? It's not bad thought of when you look at it from chemical view point (they picked critical chemicals that drug production can't be easyily organised and that are used in large quantity to avoid data overflow and allow easy detection of large purchase from the same person or firm) but from buyers point its Gestapo control (let me give you an example KMnO4 is controled substance... and almost every drug store here sell it as desinfecting agent...I will really hate to be the guy who fill out paper forms for its distibution).

I wish to add my deep gratitude to all guys who posted links because I find it informative. You can find that malonate in some of the links for example. One of the best things that made America so great is the fact that it was open society, with free flow of knowledge, money and merchandise, which allow it to grow really fast (since greedy higher class could not use laws to inflict their power over the masses...it was the best example of Darwin theory in economical sense - best adapted and best minds will survive), now in the world of high economical monsters and corporation that have the power that surpasses limits of certain countries... buying the votes in the Senat in the attempt to keep the position they have even if they are seen for bancrupcy things are not that nice (as always things left to relay to human honor are seen to make disaster).

Just to make things clear... I do not criticise America for making this mistake now. My country had same mistakes... I posted already that once in my country there were control over ethanol. But I wished that America (and my country) had saw the troubles coming their way and prepare some better ways of fight.

Edit: I started this as quick response but then scribomanic attack took over me and see what happens. I do apologize to all and to NBK2000 mostly since this is the second time you warn me over this mistake. I think that I have fixed things up this time.

[nbk2000]

FUTI....you need to use the RETURN key on your keyboard...it's standard equipment on all models of keyboards and allows you to make PARAGRAPHS out of a 300 word sentence.

:rolleyes:

[nuclearattack]

What? I can't believe in my eyes! Glassware is forbidden? That's very stupid! I don't have any lab glassware but i'm perfectly able to make HEs. Everyone can make NG in a glass, i don't need a flask!
I'm from italy and in italy the law is very restrictive about weapons, explosives and dangerous chemicals but i can buy glassware in a pharmacy!
Forbidding glassware will never resolve any problem, you can make your own glassware using bottles and other kinds of common household containers.
About drugs i don't think that it is produced in texas or in USA but surely it will imported from Mexico so this law is useless, the same thing is for explosives. Usually terrorists steal the explosives or they have it by contraband. For example look the Spanish massacre in the rail station from Al Qaeda, they have stolen blasting gelatine in a mine.
This Texas law is a problem but not so much...it's a problem because if you make a manifestation against the law it's hard to justify. What will you say when they ask: "why do you bother about this law"? You will say that you need glassware to make drugs or HEs or to distill wine? I don't think so!
By the way it's not a real problem because you can continue to make your own experiments in your house...who will search in your house if you don't cause problems to the COPs? Simply make your own things silently and stealth like a F-117.
You can learn from the italians! The italian government make a new law? You don't like it? Simply don't bother about it!
Well i'm joking! It's not really so easy but our character is something like this.
However the principle involved is right:they can't do this stupid fucking nazi thing!
OH! I think the world is going under...too much under. And i think that it will be always worse, the future is not pink...

[Mendeleev]

The reason they made this law in Texas is because there's so many mexicans. No offense, but they are probably responsible for more than 90% of the drugs synthesized in Texas, and believe it or not there are tons of drugs produced in clandestine lab in the US, I hear about a new meth lab bust every week. I say they ban sudafed, that will take care of most meth production in the U.S. because those mexicans don't know shit about chemistry and couldn't do anything aside from mixing sudafed with red phosphorus and iodine.

The $100 limit in California is much less of a problem because you can make 10 $95 orders, but it would cut down on large equipment, larger than 5 L flasks. Generally I doubt many of us do anything on that large of a scale and if we do, I have heard of Grignard reactions carried out in large trash cans(apparently the reactions don't have to be as dry on a larger scale), and in the movie, Fight Club, nitro was produced in bath tubs. So california is good, but I am never moving to Texas. Honestly, this makes me want to take up glass blowing as a hobby.

Ropik, don't feel too lucky, if they can do it in Texas they can do it anywhere. Just because they haven't doesn't mean they won't. I am not in Texas either, but this law still worries me to hell.

[chochu3]

The majority of texas is Hispanic (mexican), which I am. Most of us don't know when these laws are being passed so fourth how to go about complaining about these bills, but then again most of us don't care about chemistry so they can put all the restrictions they want on it.
I myself do not like the law. We have a lot of stupid laws, for example you can not destroy an ant pile you must remove the whole colony to a local forest. Theirs more but I forgot them.

[tmp]

Unfortunately, bureaucracy and idiocy go hand in hand !
The laws against apparatus is stupid because any moron with an IQ below
plant life can synthesize just about anything he/she wants using common
pyrex glass that is found in most homes ! It's just a matter of determination !

[tmp]

Mods, sorry about the double-post but I just had to respond to chochu3's
last post. If it's inappropriate don't hesitate to delete it or flame my ass !
Chochu3, the laws in your state are ridiculous ! Looks like you'll have to go
underground in your acquisition of lab glassware. I can help if you need or
want it. Communicate through private e-mail if I can be of assistance !
Your situation is total BULLSHIT !

[chochu3]

Funny thing I finally got me some glassware and tried to find out how to go about and getting registered with the DPS. I went and no body knew what the hell I was talking about. Even their internet site does not have the link to fill out the form.

[ShadowMyGeekSpace]

15. Ephedrine
16. Pseudoephedrine
17. Norpseudoephedrine
18. Phenylpropanolamine
So, don't buy any decongestants or cough syrups, or you're fucked.

[simply RED]

The restrictions are going upwards.

First freely sold litarature about weapons. Then all literature concerning "hard" science (are books like Silent Spring freely avalable where you live? here it was outlawed as "double purpose document"). Recently Lovelock's "Gaia - new view on the life on earth" was outlawed too!!! Then chemicals like KClO3 and POCl3.
This combined with lowering funding first for high school special science classes. Then for fundamental research in general.

Just answer some questions for yourself.

Who is producing drugs nowdays? (Is it possible for normal citizen to traffic or purchase 5 tons of acetic anhydride or BMK? Or this is done by "former scince centers", which are funded by? - who?)

Who traffic drugs nowdays?
Could you put 500kg crack in your car and drive through the checkpoint without having people there?

A frind from BG-indimedia told me a story today. 1970(he's not too young) he was in the concentration camp - Belene (for "polytical reasons") (located in Bulgaria - an island on the Danube river) .
One day the chief of the camp told the prisoners.
- Maybe you wait for the ammericans to come and liberate you?
But remember, we are the ones - going to welcome the ammericans when they come - not you, as we were the ones - who welcome the soviets before 25 years....

Becuse when the oc(co(p)(rpor)ations) come - they search the corrupted elements for helpers...

[NoltaiR]

I am from Texas and I never saw this thread when it was started. I must say, though, that I hope they never check my equipment. I have a regular laboratory going on when it comes to glassware...

[inventorgp]

WHAT???

In Queensland you can manufacture and use a maximum
of 500g of explosive for a "chemical experiment".

I called a lab supplier today to gets some glass, and
he replied "It's illegal to own glassware".

That really peed me off to day.

And you can't buy chemicals from lab suppliers.:mad:

I've been thinking:

No guns
No glass
No airsoft
No FREEDOM OF SPEACH
No chemicals
No protecting yourself

How about:

no political correctness
no idiotic beaurocratic leaders
no moronic sayings of "guns and explosive are evil"

[Big Mac]

I'm from Texas and this doesn't surprise me in the least. I'm sure they used the excuse, I mean reason, of all the meth labs found. Sure and let's ban guns because people use them to knock over stores. Prohibition never works, and they take my friend's lab equipment from his cold dead hands.

[megalomania]

The law of unintended consequences has reared its ugly head. Due to the effectiveness of the fedgov, DEA, and stupid laws like this, the number of homegrown meth labs has declined rather sharply.

Instead, a vast meth cartel has sprung up in Mexico producing a tremendous quantity of very high purity and high quality meth. You see, the cartels can get all their precursors by the ton, literally, because they are OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES.

US law only works up to the US border, and all that stupid paperwork that makes the lives of Americans miserable is not existent down there. The Mexicans are free to set up pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities that just import all the chemicals from China and India without giving a moments hesitation to what the DEA says about it.

The US government deserves this, stupid DEA cocksuckers. You screwed with the next generation of scientists, and now it’s all for naught. The fedgovs next step is to try to control worldwide exports by refusing to give out aid monies unless every gram of ephedrine et. al. are accounted for. Good luck with that... idiots.