Sodium Fluoride

[simply RED]

The NaF is said to be a good poison, but the sources can't say waht exactly is the lethal dose.
http://www.maebrussell.com/Fluoride.html
This link gives some info on NaF. PMJB says that the lethal dose is about one grain, That must be 1/437 of an ounce. PMJB says that a rice grain sized particle may be lethal. But the other sources say it is about 5-10 grams. Do you know the exact lethal dose.

[jin]

i read somewhere the toxic amount of sodium fluoride was 5-10mg per kg for small children and minium lethal dose of 32mg per kg of body weight in adults.has anybody extracted any fluoride salts from tooth paste?

[CyclonitePyro]

Those bastards put that shit in our water, toothpaste, mouthwash, and when you get a fluoride treatment at the dentist theres more places than that I can't think of.
There's a lot of good info on this stuff around the net about alterior motives for giving us the stuff, there is no evidence that it actually helps your teeth, when taken in excess it turns your teeth black.
Not to sound paranoid but a lot of people will tell you it makes people more act sheepish and passive. I've heard it's in milk but not listed.

[CyclonitePyro]

http://www.newnetizen.com/mediacoverups/flouridedrug.htm
Here we go, this is what I'm talking about.
Scary stuff, this guy I know is in the water business, every time he goes to put a water system in a doctors house they say how they don't want flouride in their water, or they want it out.

[xoo1246]

And in your Coca Cola light and many other products you find aspartame that will when it is heated to above 30(your body is 37) degrees celcius decompose into methyl alcohol wich in the body will break down into formaldehyde and formic acid. From Monsanto, the company that gave us Agent Orange and various other nice little chemicals.

<small>[ August 31, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[mr.evil]

well, i use Sodiumfluoride for washing my mouth(i don't really know why the dentist sucribed me this, but i guess for the protective fluoride layer on theets...) anyway, it's a solution of 0,05ml NaF on 1ml water...btw, it has a *strange* smell.

edit: typo

[James]

Actually, the fluoride source I have (for my teeth) is Stannous Fluoride.

[kingspaz]

this topic is about the lethal dose of NaF not your mouthwash.

edit: just to address mr.evils reply below this post was aimed primarily at james since he provided absolutely nothing relevent.

<small>[ August 31, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[mr.evil]

Kingspaz,
i didn't meant to post crap here, sorry but what i was trying to say was that i use NaF, so in little doses it isn't dangerous or something. Sorry.

[Polverone]

NaF doesn't seem to be a much better poison than other easily accessible chemicals. It also has pretty low solubility in water. KF is much more soluble. I have a few hundred grams of NaF and it actually came with fewer safety warnings than my lead nitrate. NaF has also been used as a rot/insect preventative, IIRC.

[simply RED]

NaF and KF are a lot more poisonous than lead nitrate. NaF causes poisoning in quantities as low as 5-10mg/kg. 5g is letahl for adults without medical treatment. The sympthoms include vomiting, diarhea, never tremors, bloody stools,dehydratation... followed by paralysis!
tha F ion binds the calcium 2+ and causes dehydratation which destroys the ion balance in the organism.
Actually AgF is much more deadly! It is the most sadistic poison to my mind!
AgF + HCl= AgCl(p) + HF!!!!!!

[Polverone]

AgF may be "eviler" but it doesn't seem like a great choice, since it has to carry around that heavy Ag+. The Merck index lists lethal doses for NaF and KF of 180-250 mg per kg, depending on the animal and mode of administration. This doesn't seem all that great. Consider that approximately 23 mg/kg of barium ion can be lethal - i.e. about 35 mg/kg of BaCl2, around a fifth the mass of the NaF dose.

How are you going to convince somebody to consume 5 g of a salt with relatively low solubility? Cook them an extra-special burrito with lots of masking flavor? Or maybe your target isn't human, but it's not like there's a lot of glory in outwitting stray dogs.

Poisonings are good for murder mysteries but they are only a miniscule fraction of all reported homicides. We can conclude that either poisoning is a great way to kill without detection, or that most killings are not sufficiently premeditated to be done with poison, or that poisoning does not offer compelling benefits over other methods. I really need to find a good book on poisons to scan.

This isn't really battlefield chemistry, either. Some organic fluorine compounds make potent weapons, but you can't cook special NaF burritos for an entire army.

[simply RED]

Fluorides are good for slow poisoning also! The chronic effect of fluoride posioning is extremely destructive to the human body...
I don't know the taste of NaF, or KF(what is their taste?) but it will be extremely easy to kill gipsys with it!
Also lambda cyhalothrine (karate insecticide) is a good choice!
Lethal dose 80% for humans 50mg/kg. It is a nerve poison, interacts with the nerve ion channel that it cannot be closed and remains open!
Cyanide is good for people, as well as fluoroacetates, FLUOROETHANOL, organic nitriles, sodium nitrite, zinc phosphide, white P, amanita phalloides mushroom- all they are readily available for everyone who wants to use them...

[Al Koholic]

SO chronic poisoning results from a long-term exposure to fluoride ion eh? I haven't heard this before but that isn't to say its not so. I wonder just because of the presence of fluoride in city water and the fact that for the last 18 years or so (ever since I've been brushing my teeth) I have been swallowing the toothpaste at the end cause I didn't mind the taste as a kid and now it is just habit. Feel fine though...no developmental disabilities or particualr susceptibility to ailments. The levels of fluoride required for chronic poisoning must be fairly high (relative to the city water content etc). At least the fluoride ion has a full valency or then there would really be problems. Free radicals scare me more.

Al

[nbk2000]

I read that, back in the 40's, ALCOA (The aluminium manufacturers consortium) had all this flouride waste left over from all the aluminium they made for WW2 and, rather than have to pay for disposal of this poisonous chemical, came up with the clever idea of getting paid to put it in the drinking water since "It strengthens teeth!". :rolleyes:

Well, tooth rot may have been a problem back then, but I'd say most americans don't live in Deliverance country anymore.