"Round Up" herbicide a potential CW?

[NightStalker]

I was reading a file, and noticed something in a footnote, that said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">
The P-Alkyl bond of the isoproplyamine salt of glyphosphate is structurally similiar to nerve
agents. (Technologies Underlying Weapons of Mass Destruction, page 55, footnote 105)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I remember seeing this chemical on a label while doing my usual product survey, so I went to the hardware
store and read a label for "Roundup" herbicide. Guess what it is? Glyphosphate, isopropylamine salt. :D

(assuming this is the same stuff)

Could this be altered by some simple process to greatly increase toxicity? Roundup is very expensive,
but very common and considered "harmless", which would make it easy to steal in large quantities from
commercial suppliers if it was useable for conversion into a CW.

A terr could even make a killing (pun intended) off the stock market by converting roundup into a CW,
dispersing it in an attack, and selling short on monsanto stock before the news that Roundup, Monsantos
premiere product, is useable as a WMD. Or, perhaps, extort Monsanto for a "silence tax", to NOT release the process to the enviromentalist groups that would run with it like no tommorrow. :)

This would cause an immediate recall, major drop in their stock, panic amongst the sheeple ("Terror weapon as close as the grocery store shelves! News at 10!"), etc. A two-for-one for a terr group, kill infidels, and make more money from the capitalists warmongers own fears to use against them later. :p

[cutefix]

Nerve gas are acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and therefore more toxic.
What ever this so called WMD claim said was possibly an exaggeration.
This so called roundup will decompose easily once its done its action and its known to be harmless .
It prime effect is on plsnts not on animals .
Besides its toxicity value is still under study.Unlike the previous well known pesticides.

[Haggis]

The highest concentration of Roundup sold is 50.2%. This concentration is sold in 1 quart containers for around 39.98. If you managed to get the active ingredient pure, (16.064 oz) it would cost 2.49 an ounce. Hardly a chemical (or a source) useful for any type of weaponization. This is assuming, of course, you are buying the Round-up.

[metafractal]

Wow... I was thinking exactly the same thing browsing through the shelves of my hardware store just a few hours ago! Hagggis, I'm pretty sure you can get it pure here (Melbourne). My hardware store sells two types: concentrate (which appeared to be anhydrous, judging by the container, but I didnt see the material itself), and "ready to use" (not in our case!). Even if this isnt pure, it is one of the most common herbicides. It is also commonly sold with the trade names of 'Rodeo', 'Roundup', 'Sting', 'Polado', 'Glistar', 'Ron-Do', 'Rondo Logico', and 'Touchdown'.

A structure of glyphosphate can be found <a href="http://www.augustana.edu/users/Chwanke/Image51.gif" target="_blank">here</a>, and the isopropylamine salt <a href="http://www.augustana.edu/users/Chwanke/Image51.gif" target="_blank">here</a> (Not sure about the second one, please excuse me if its something different). IIRC, this stuff is a suspected carcinogen, and a very mild irritant, nothing else for humans. In plants, however, Glyphosphate works by inhibiting the EPSP synthase in plants, which is vital for production of proteins and uptake of nutrients in plants. Therefore they die in a matter of days or weeks. So then it would follow that there is a simlar enzyme in humans that has a significantly different task (its no good if our victims are only going to get skinny and die over weeks!), but can still be inhibited by a similar mechanism. What this is, however, I am not knoledgable to know or determine.

The stuff does work wonders against weeds! When my parents bought this block (10 acres), it was covered with blackberries. Could bareley walk a meter. After rigorous bi-annual spraying, three years later there was bareley a blackberry to be seen, and today there are none, uless you count the ones that grow over the fence from the neigbouring blocks! Anyway, thats the perfect excuse for buying in bulk/concentrate: you're clearing a block of noxious(sp?) weeds.

The original patent for glyphophate as a herbicide can be found here (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser%3FSect1=PTO1%26Sect2=HITOFF%26d=PALL%26p=1% 26u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm%26r=1%26f=G%26l=50%26s1=4,405,531.WKU. %26OS=PN/4,405,531%26RS=PN /4,405,531).

Edit: No idea why that last link doesnt come up... oh well, copy and paste.

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: metafractal ]</small>

[simply RED]

The fight against the pest has always been a challenge.
Thats why they use lambda cyhalothrine- aka "Karate" pesticide. Acts on the nerve ion channels LD-50 50mg/kg (in my experience with rodents even lower). Sold as 2,5%, could be easily purifed to 99,9%.
Dimethoate, known as Bi-58, organophosphoric insecticide, LD-50 for humans 100mg/kg, no matter how high they claim to be, there were multiple suicides with this during last years in eastern europe. No smell, no colour...Sold widely to everyone.
Both dimthoate and L-cyhalothrine are solid (when more than 90%).
Dimekron, liquid mass, extremely high toxic, organophopsphoric insecticide 10 times more toxic than dimethoate. (Don't know if its still widely sold).

For efective "pest" control, a mix of drugs and (or) medicines could be used. It is claimed that a mix of ecstasy and LSD can lead to tremendous psychic and physic disorder. Also MDMA + alcohol does well, organoposphates + liver demaging drugs. Just see what ferment destroys your poison and mix it with something that destroys the ferment. A mix of dimethoate and methamphetamine will be nice, since the the methamphetamine will release "adrenalin" and this will make the tremors caused by the Bi-58 deadlier.

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: simply RED ]</small>

[80r15]

I was browsing around my local Home Depot when some pesticides caught my eye. There was so much selection and so many different ingredients... I was just curious if anyone has tried purifying the pesticides, and if not, what is the most posionous OTC pesticide ingredient..
PS- if you are interested in pesticides, I would recomend "Silent Spring" by Rachel Carson... IF you skip over the useless, tree-hugging hippie crap you can find some interesting information about various pesticides, there creations, etc..

[simply RED]

To purify pesticide you can :
1.evaporate the solvent(so i did with the karate).
2.Add something that is super soluble in the solvent, and the toxic ingredient is not soluble in. The same process as adding ammonium
nitrate to chlorine water, or adding alcohol to KCN solution.
The "pesticide" will chrystalize. You can also add something that dissolves the active ingredient, but the solvent is not sluble in. Then separate the layers and purify next.
3. Turn the pesticide into susupension and use filtering with micromembrane.
4. Absorb the toxic ingredient with something or use paper chromatography.
Gather as much info as possible for the whole product. Perform operations safe and effective!

[ciguy007]

If were one to administer it in appropriate amounts, paraquat causes death.

Cases involving paraquat ingestion associated with suicide attempts or homicide attempts (mostly in SE Asia) have shown that given a sufficient dose, death from pulmonary fibrosis is inevitable, despite such heroic measures as (multiple in some cases) heart-lung transplants.

[PAC]

@metafractal: your link doesn´t work.

The original patent is US 3799758, a shorter version can be found in "Scientific principles of improvised warfare and home defense Vol.5", page 4-52 (The patent is also in the reference archive I uploaded some time ago.)

[ultma]

If were one to administer it in appropriate amounts, paraquat causes death.

there was a case here in NZ awhile back where "accidental poisoning occurred" the wife of the victim had poured a measure of paraquat in a glass for dilution, the husband filled the un-rinsed glass with water for a drink - the residue had not been washed out - he died.

interesting is that high dose Vitamin C will protect against paraquat if taken before exposure but if taken after it will hasten your demise something to do with the Fenton cycle and free radical generation.

But I think paraquat is very hard to come by here in NZ, great properties as a herbicide, breaks down fast in presence of light, fast acting etc, just too damn toxic for the sheeple.

[PAC]

I now got "The pesticide manual". There is another patent mentioned (US4315765 Trialkylsulfonium salts of n-phosphonomethylglycine and their use...).
By the way, Roundup contains 480g/l glyphosphate-isopropylammonium.

Does anyone need the details from "the pesticide manual - a world compendium"?

[Enkidu]

If it's digital, yes please.

[PAC]

Glyphosate (http://rapidshare.com/files/68871312/G.rar.html)
from: The pesticide manual, a world compendium, 9th Edition