Crude Biological/Toxin Weapons

[TariqMujahid]

While Anthrax, Botulinum, Ricin, T2 and other Biological and Toxin weapons are fun to think about, I have not seen much consideration for more crude and easily-available weapons that can probably be found simply by walking in the woods... No, these will not be able to take out 20,000 people like the previously said Biological Weapons, but bear with me.

Such examples of "Crude" Biological/Toxin weapons can include Urushiol, the oil that causes the rash from Poison Ivy plants. Poison Ivy is a very common weed almost everywhere in the United States (not sure about elsewhere), making acquisition of this oil very easy. Perhaps dispersed by aerosol or through burning can create airborne particles which may inhaled, causing a rash along the respiratory tract. When the rashes swell, it will be difficult for the person to breathe and they can die of suffocation. This is the very reason why some states have laws against burning Poison Ivy plants. The disadvantages to this: Urushiol is easily decontaminated with water, in order to develop an allergic reaction, the exposed person must have been exposed to Urushiol atleast once before.

An example of a crude Germ weapon is the Rabies virus. I'm sure this can easily be ordered... If all fails, catching a rabid animal, killing it, and culturing the bacteria from its brain works; although I'm not sure how this is done. Anyhow, covering a bomb with this virus, or putting it on shrapnel can greatly increase the lethality of the bomb. Rabies is not easily detected, and it can take up to 16 weeks before effects are seen. Treatment, from what I've read from my sister-in-law's "Immunology and Microbiology" book (she is a doctor now, just graduated from Medical School =) ), Rabies treatment is only supportive, and many cases are fatal.

Just thoughts, I'm sure there are many many many other things that can be listed as "crude Biological/Toxin weapons". This is more of a thought-provoking post, I don't know if I'm really serious about these suggestions.

[rikkitikkitavi]

rabies is a viral infection in the nerve system. It spreads through the nerves by a rate of about 1 cm/24 hours. Once the virus reaches the brain the infection is fatal. (fully developed rabies) . No one have sofar survived once the infection has spread to the brain, despite modern health care. No symptoms show until the virus reaches the brain, exept from a slight rash at the point of infection at the body.

A few injections of immunoglobin killes the virus with very high probabilty before the virus reaches the brain. (> 99 %)

The infection can be detected by a easy test at a health care center.

To become infected one have to be exposed to body fluids in an open cut or similar. Oral infection is not very likely, since the virus has a low chance of surviving the acid environment in the stomache.

Altogether , I think it is not a suitable weapon of massdestruction. however, it would make a perfect tool for a patient murderer. se the following exampel of how it might go unless you are suspiscious.

There was a case recently here in sweden where a young woman returned from Thailand after working as a volonteer in a place fore street dogs !?
(she was never bitten according to the news, but licked by dogs maybe) After a few weeks she felt ill, went to the hospital and the doctors diagnosed her with rabies, fully spread. They put her under narcosis through the last days since the cramps are very painful, and generally you turn crazy since the virus messes up your brain.
And she died of course.

(do I need to say that when I was in SEA, I stayed well of any stray dogs, fucking raggy beast they where)

Oh, BTW, Bats and monkeys are the way to go if one wants animals with a high probabilty of being infected, however the virus infects any mammal-look out for strange behavious since the animals turns crazy too.

/rickard

<small>[ May 14, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: rikkitikkitavi ]</small>

[TariqMujahid]

It's not so much exposure to body fluids, from what I've read atleast.

Here is an excerpt from the "Medical Microbiology and Immunology" book that I was talking about:

"Pathogenesis & Immunity The virus multiplies locally at the bite site and then infects the sensory neurons and moves by axonal transport to the central nervous system. During its transport within the nerve, the virus is sheltered from the immune system and little, if any, immune response occurs. The virus multiplies in the central nervous system and then travels down the peripheral nerves to the salivary glands...From the salivary glands, it enters the saliva to be transmitted by the bite...
...Because so few individuals have survived rabies, there is no information regarding immunity to disease upon being bitten again."

"Clinical Findings The incubation period varies...from as short as 2 weeks to 16 weeks or longer. It is shorter when bites are sustained on the head rather than on the leg, because the virus has a shorter distance to travel to reach the central nervous system.
...the patien exhibits a prodrome of nonspecific symtoms such as fever, anorexia, and changes in sensation at the bite site. Within a few days, signs such as confusion ,lethargy, and increased salivation develop. Most notably...painful spam of throat muscles on swalling...result is hydrophobia..aversion to swallowing water because it is so painful. Within several diays...seizures, paralysis, and coma. Death almost invariably ensues..."

Anyhow, my suggestion was to put this on shrapnel. Therefore, it would be similar to being bitten by a rabid animal, the rabies enters your body along with the shrapnel. Not many people expect Viruses or Diseases, except Tetanus, to be on bomb shrapnel; therefore they may not consider it.

[Anthony]

Imagine contaminating the supply of needles to be used for a school vacination... Come for a measles jab, leave with rabbies!

[Synthetically Hopeful]

Ricin? A high tech bio weapon? What have you been smokin' and how is it made. Caster beans and a solvent, that is not high tech, in fact, it's rather crude, and its a toxin. Crude Biological/Toxin Weapons seems like a rather good way to class Ricin. Take X amount of nutmeat from caster beans, mash it up in a glass jar with enough solvent to cover it, cap and wake a week, and filter out the cristals. any raghead can do it, Im suprised it hasnt been used yet.

[TariqMujahid]

Ahem... I know Ricin is not a Biological Weapon. Ricin is a plant Toxin, and yes, it is easily extracted. HOWEVER, it is NOT easily turned into a product that is very usable as a Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Following the expected scenario for a Chemical/Biological/Toxin weapon, the agent will be dispersed by Aerosol or as a powder capable of being inhaled. While Ricin is easy to extract, turning it into a powder that is easily inhaled can prove to be very difficult.

Similarly, it is very easy to grow the mold that makes T2 Mycotoxin ("Yellow Rain"). Hell, if you go to a corn farm, you can probably find corn covered in Fusarium molds. If not, you can probably find the mold in the soil and culture it under the right conditions. The Toxin is not hard to extract either and personally, I think T2 Mycotoxin is a far better a weapon than Ricin.

Perhaps both of these can be considered "Crude Biological/Toxin Weapons", but not nearly as crude as the ones I was talking about. And what are you trying to say about "Ragheads" ? :mad:

<small>[ May 14, 2002, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: TariqMujahid ]</small>

[Synthetically Hopeful]

That if an uneducated brainwashed extremist can make it, you can to.

Fusarium, that sounds interesting, I'll look at that when I get the chance.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Sorry to veer off-topic, but I am also rather annoyed to hear Synthetically Hopeful use the term "ragheads" in the manner that he did. "Brainwashed extremists"? Firstly, you're saying that all Muslim "ragheads" are "brainwashed extremists". Secondly, if you were a Palestinian living in occupied Palestine, you surely would be in support of the "brainwashed extremists" (freedom-fighters) called the Hamas. Think about it...

[NoltaiR]

Calm down fellas.. keep on the topic and at least try to ignore other comments whether you agree with them or not.

Anyways I like the idea of the crude toxins.. and to think there are so many.. I mean hell, anthrax is known world-wide and it can be cultured from certain mushrooms. All it takes is to grind it up fine enough to make it an airfloat substance and bingo. But the idea I like most brought up in this thread is the poison ivy oil. Even if you decided not to use it to cause death.. it would sure make for a fun practical joke instrument that you could spray in places your enemies often are (in their bed, in their car, etc.). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[VX]

I like the idea of the poison ivy oil.

I have a few other ideas myself though. How about extractig the toxin from a few of the more deadly fungi. The death cap (Amanita phalloides) is extremely toxic and there is no cure! One bite will probably be fatal. The Destroying Angel(Actualy four closely related species all go under the common name of "Destroying Angel", these are: Amanita virosa, A. verna, A. bisporigera,and A. ocreata) is equaly toxic. The toxin both is a cyclic peptide called Amanitin, a protein.

Both are very common in the UK and USA, although they only grow at certain times of the year. The toxin can be extracted with the correct solvant, and then used in an appropriate way.

Similarly toxins from any of the Hemlock family are extremely toxic(Alkoloid:Coniin) , as would be extracts from Deadly Nightshade (Atropa belladona) which contains a cocktail of toxic Alkoloids including atropine, scopolomine and hyoscyamine, the heighest conc of which are in the fruit. A Suitable solvant for Alkoloids is water.

Edit: The toxin in both mushrooms is Amanitin

<small>[ May 17, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: VX ]</small>

[EP]

True, ricin is not a biological weapon in the normal sense (bacteria or virus) but it does come from a biological source. All toxins like ricin were included under the 1972 biological weapons convention ban, along with venoms such as those from snakes, spiders and coral.

[TariqMujahid]

Some of the replies seem a little broad...
" anthrax is known world-wide and it can be cultured from certain mushrooms"

Do you know specifically what Mushrooms have the Anthrax bacteria, where they grow, what they look like? =)

"The toxin can be extracted with the correct solvant, and then used in an appropriate way."

I believe the solvent that will be used is Methyl Alcohol, but I'm not positive. Do you know for sure which solvent to use to extract the toxin?

[VX]

No I don't. A solvent that can dissolve protein is needed, I don’t know one, but I’ll research it.

'In an appropriate way' means to aerosol it.... (This could not be done with an explosive as I suspect that the protein would become denatured and therefor non-toxic.) It could also be applied to food, drink etc, for more controlled results.

Edit :

'amanitin. (alpha) C39H54N10O13S

(beta) C39H53N9O14S- Toxic principle from a species of mushroom (Amanita phalloides). The beta form has been obtained as acicular crystals which are soluble in water and methanol and ethanol.
Hazard: A poison!'

From <a href="http://www.chempros.com/knowledgebase/albumin.htm" target="_blank">Here</a>

<small>[ May 17, 2002, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: VX ]</small>

[EP]

I recently finished a report on biological weapons some may find interesting. It covers a wide variety of topics, from different agents, to history and bioterrorism. I also discuss Iraqs weapons and the potential US invasion of the country. You can read it here:

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/extremepyro2/bioweaponsiraq.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/extremepyro2/bioweaponsiraq.html</a>

It's a bit long.

[mrloud]

The Journal of the American Medical Association recently made available much of their material relating biological terrorism and warfare.

I have uploaded most of it to the FTP. One of particular interest is called 'cutaneous anthrax associated with kombucha mushroom in Iran.pdf'

I think this should clear up any misunderstanding on how anthrax can come from a mushroom.

A Google search for: kombucha mushroom anthrax is also helpful.

[Arkangel]

Here's a chirpy little story, and a variation on the theme of this thread

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2147204.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2147204.stm</a>

[nbk2000]

Maybe they should deliberately infect the suicide bombers with AIDS, HepB, Ebola, Typhoid, and anything else they can get their hands on.

Then, when they blow themselves up, their blood is sprayed as a vapor from the explosion into the air, and bloodied fragments flying everywhere.

A kind of human biological bomb.

The "bone as fragments" is old news. I saw an episode of M*A*S*H (when it first came out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> I'm feeling old now... :() where a guy had a bone sticking out of his leg.

Hawkeye thought it was dudes shin bone, but it turned out to the the shin bone of the guy in front of him who stepped on a mine. Ouch!

[studen]

Acetone works for extracting ricin.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Acetone removes the castor oil from the castor bean pulp, making processing of the pulp to chemical seperate the toxic ricin protein more efficient.

Acetone DOES NOT dissolve ricin, which is a protein, much the same as cooked egg white.

<small>[ August 24, 2002, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[Boob Raider]

I think after u get the castor oil out the seed cake the Ricin can be further dissolved in 10% NaCl soln. and the ppt. out by the addition of MgSO4 soln. Same with Abrin. I am not sure though :confused: . Does anyone have any info on how many acid groups r free in Ricin ? If there is a substantial amount the I suspect one could dissolve Ricin by the addition of dilute NaOH soln. and ppt. it out by the addition of dilute Acetic acid. I did this successfully with N-Methyltryptophan (one of the toxic constituents in rosery pea along with Abrin). :D

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don't write 'u' in the place of 'you' or 'r' in the place of 'are'. this isn't a chat room so use proper english - kingspaz

<small>[ August 25, 2002, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[cypher13]

The posters here are quite correct, acetone is the solvent of choice when extracting ricin and abrin.

Grind up the beans into a fine powder, apply acetone, filter and evaporate. Use due diligence as this can be the price of your life, though things should be okay once the powder is in the acetone. The resulting powder is almost pure ricin.

Ricin is good for individual targets. Twenty odd years ago, in the days of Georgi Markov, it was hardly known in the West, and as the symptoms were so similar to certain pneumonias, the medical examiners would write it off as that, taking the easy way out. All of a sudden, a murder was no longer a murder. Of course, Markov was a high-profile target and there was that suspicious platinum-iridium ball under a suspicious puncture wound, but in general, ricin would be missed. Nowadays, all that is probably changed and ricin would probably be detected in an American post mortem, particularly if the victim is high-profile. I do not think ricin is a poison of choice, except where the person is unlikely to undergo a post mortem.

Stuff is a hemagluttinin, and makes the red blood cells clump up. Nasty!

There are rosaries made from Jequirity beans (also called "Crab Eyes" as they are red) - and as people say their rosaries time and again, they absorb lethal doses of abrin through their fingertips.


I have a nifty recipe for botulin, but it's involved. If anyone is interested, let me know.

A

[nbk2000]

Grind up the beans into a fine powder, apply acetone, filter and evaporate. Use due diligence as this can be the price of your life, though things should be okay once the powder is in the acetone. The resulting powder is almost pure ricin.

Wrong.

Solvent extracted castor bean powder has no more ricin in it then it did before the oil extraction. And, powder that has been processed in the typical "recipe" for ricin production, typically has no more than twice the ricin content of the original bean powder, which contains only about 1% to start with, which is far less than "nearly pure". :rolleyes:

The PMJB process is junk.

And if you use the word "recipe" in conjunction with "botulin", it's a sure sign of a crapbook article. Try posting something from The Journal of Infectious Diseases instead. I've found many an interesting article in them in my studies. Things like crystallizing tetenus toxin, incubating clostridium perfringens (google it) in hydrogen atmospheres, typing botulin toxin groups, and other lovelies.

Avoid cut and paste jobs, and speculation as well, when you can. Makes you look much less knowledgable than you may wish to appear. ;)