Cyanide Shotshells

[green beret]

Recently I have realised that I have gotten so much out of the forum, but havent given much back, so, here is an idea that I thought up, it probably isnt all that good but maybe someone could turn it into something better.....

Well, I know poisoned buckshot has been done before but I thought, "What if you could make all the pellets in a No.4 shotshell poisonous?"
Well this is just a pretty basic idea---

Open up a No.4 Shell and take out all the shot.
Make a gel/paste using cyanide flour and water, or something to produce similar results-maybe even powdered horse shit cyanide and water (refer to NBKs topic on caltrops).

After you have made the lethal paste put it in a bowl along with all of the shot. Mix well. Once the shot is all coated in poison load it back into the shell, but try not to get to much excess paste/gel in there.

Now you can all see how this would theoretically work, but imagine firing a few of these into a crowd...

Like I said, I'm just trying to share my ideas to put something back into the forum, the place that has taught me so much for a cost of zero.

Let me know what you all think.....NBK?

[Wicked]

Good idea. Now only if I knew where the fuck this ftp is with all the shit, cuz ctrl_c's doesnt have it.

[Wicked]

WAIT, cynide would be bad, think of a diffrent pastey toxin, cuz if u touched the shell where cynide had been, its all over. depending on the strength, you will

A) Die
B) Break out a nasty ass rash
C) Get cancer
D) Get a prostitic arm
E) All of the above.

Hmm, maybe something like a toxin that hasto go into the blood, IE scorpian venom (u can get it powdered.), or snake or something. maybe a shotgun shell that shoots some ap, thats shielded from the inital charge, and has some BP in it, it will hit the dude, and its all over for him. But you would haveto calculate howto sheild the ap. >:\

[green beret]

Thats why I said cyanide, because its so lethal, you would have to use safety gear and you could also seal the shell with wax to ensure none leaks out, I wont list all the safety gear because you guys will be able to figure that out for yourselves. :rolleyes:

[Fallout85]

IIRC VC troop placed garlic in makeshift hollow point bullets to poison Marines. Yup, garlic. It isn't immediately poisonous (I think it killed in less than an hour), but it is readily available. Something similar could be used with a shot shell. Cyanide is just to hazardous to bother with. When was the last time you ever heard of someone accidentally poisoning themself with garlic?

[Wicked]

and how the fuck do you propose puting enough garlic juice/puddy into a shotgun shell? moron, its a thin coating. DUH. youd get maybe a 1/2cc of the shit into the dude, all hed have is a rash, and i dont even think garlic is poisinous. rofl.

[Fallout85]

Well how much do you think fits in a hollow point? Not very much. And yes it is poisonous. Even just a coating is supposed to be a enough to cause a massive infection.

[Wicked]

I just injected myself with two cc's, lets see what happens. :p

[Wicked]

Oh, and do you have aim or something? if so privmsg me it and ill add you so I can tell u exactly if anythings happening :p twelve bucks says nothing.

[Bignutsami]

umm.. garlic is an antiseptic/antibiotic, it was used to treat infection during the world wars when other antiseptics became scarce, where did you get this idea that it is a deadly poison, its ludicrous.

<small>[ May 11, 2002, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: Bignutsami ]</small>

[Wicked]

see, even he agrees, and im fine, theres just a slight rash, as to be expected since i took a needle to a clove of garlic and shoved it in my skin. :p

[Fallout85]

All right, all right I'm wrong. I know I've heard that somewhere before though. I'll check the veracity before I post in the future. I was just making a suggestion. Jeez, I could have sworn.......
edit: spelling

<small>[ May 11, 2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: Fallout85 ]</small>

[PYRO500]

The person who posted that before was MADWOLF, he has since been banned

[Wicked]

if you still belive it, inject urself. :)

[xoo1246]

Stop, some of the cyanide will make a dust cloud infront of the weapon when you fire the weapon. The weapon will be contaminated and you will probably breath in cyanide dust.

[DBSP]

Xoo is right, If you fire a shotgun with that in it you will end up with a cloud of cyanide 1m in front of the weapon. I've tried replacing the lead shots in practise ammunition (12 gauge 24g load) with crude salt, you know ungrinded salt. When I fired the gun all I got was a cloud of finely devided salt 2m in front of the gun. It might work if you reduced the powder load with 50%. Still it is to risky. The only thing I can think of that would work would be a shell loaded with a solid container for the cyanide, maby plastic, this would then be fired at the ground near the target and the container would then diperse the cyanide into the proximity of the target.

[PYRO500]

That is why you take sodiumthiosulfate before using the weapon and then sniff some amyl nitrate, this is what the CIA used to do when their people used HCN sprays for assasination.

[Arkangel]

Garlic is totally deadly, but only if you're a vampire :p

As to coating the shot you removed from the cartridge, a better idea would be to replace it with the split shot used in angling (fishing) and rolling it in your poison, as it's more likely to remain on the pellet when passing through clothing, doors, etc. That way, you could do what the VC's ACTUALLY did, and smear them with shit. Someone gets filled with lead/shit, there isn't an antibiotic around that will help them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

<small>[ May 12, 2002, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[PYRO500]

Actually now they will give you a lot of antibiotics when you get a deep dirty puncture wound to avoid infection in the jungles of vietnam someone stepping on shit smeared spikes might get a puncture wound and it would most likely get infected, just when your out in the jungle in a war, antibiotics don't go to anyone with a scratch.

[Wicked]

PUNJI STICKS!

[Bitter]

Pardon ?

[Arkangel]

He was referring in a typically banal fashion to Punjee Stakes the mantraps often employed by the VC, using split/sharpened bamboo in a variety of ways, mostly smeared with shit to guarantee infection. The thinking behind many military projectiles or weapons is not to kill, since a wounded man takes up a lot more attention and effort than a dead one. Carrying a buddy screaming with pain from his swollen and infected foot does not help if you're on a fighting patrol

[Synthetically Hopeful]

Green Beret, do you have a copy of NBK2000's pdf? and would there be enough(sp?) of the toxin left, after all the movement the shot in the shell, it being fired, traveling thru the air at so many fps and thru clothing, to be more lethal than the shot itself. The cloud of dust after it has been fired may not be good for your health as well.

Where is NBK2000, anyway?

[Tyler_Durden]

I don't think using a chemical like cyanide, being so lethal and dangerous, would be wise to disperse with a shotgun. It's just to risky. Give away/sell free lemonade w/ cyanide in it if you want to poison people en masse, geez, don't try to use a shotgun.

Unless the situation requires a projectile weapon, or you want to kill a certain person, or whatever the case may be... and in this situation just use the standard poison-in-the-hollowpoint or something.

It would be cool, sure, but you have to consider practicality.

[green beret]

You could have the shotgun set up to fire remotely.

[EP]

If you are going to set it up to fire remotely, some sort of explosive dispersal would probably be much more effective.

[green beret]

Yes but I think most of the cyanide would be destroyed in the blast...

[nbk2000]

There's a much better antidote for cyanide poisoning now.

A 10-1 (weight) mix of alpha-ketoglutarate and L-cystine will protect against 5x LD<SUB>50</SUB> by ingestion, 2x<SUB>50</SUB> inhalation. Eat a gram of the mix 10-15 minutes, or 2 minutes by injection, prior to exposure.

I don't remember which is the 10, and which is the 1. So test it on rats first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

It lasts about 15 minutes before losing effectiveness.

I read about how the army was funding research for a cyanide treatment and it mentioned the university and professor who was working on it. Soooo I called him up and spent 1/2 hour talking to him about it. :D

Mind you, this was back in '95, so they weren't all paranoid like they'd be now, post 9/11, about talking to someone they've never heard of on the phone about cyanide antidotes .

Any kind of cyanide weapon that uses the solid (not gaseous) form needs to have the poison contained. Otherwise, it'll be dispersed in the air around you (BAD!), not penetrate, etc. Drilled out fragments (shot) are best.

If you're using darts/flechettes, they need to be notched or hooked if there's to be any chance of the poison being carried through the air and intervening clothes/barriers. Otherwise, it'll be knocked off as they rattle against each other, scraped off as it travels down the barrel, blown off by supersonic winds, wiped off by clothes, squeezed off by skin...getting the idea?

Garlic? :rolleyes: Madmutt :p was banned for such stupidity.

Let's not forget the use of synergy to increase the probability of the kill. Use the cyanide, add a dash of fresh horse shit, sprinkle in some magnesium shavings, and seal it inside a drilled ball bearing that's been rusting in the shit damped soil of a horse/cow pen for a month.

Serve stone cold. <img src="http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubb/icons/icon18.gif" alt="" />

Wicked, you're a moron. Say hello to Tamaj...whatever the fuck that ragheads name was, because you're going to the HED paradise where all idiots go to.

[green beret]

Yeah, I know now that the cyanide would come off, buckshot drilled out would work, but thats already been done, I was trying to think of something new, oh well......

[James]

I wouldn't mount a shotgun for a single use somewhere. Instead, I would probably use a slambang or say a claymore. An actual shotgun would probably have some paperwork attached to it. Although I suppose if you wanted to frame someone you might. What do the rest of you think?

[nbk2000]

If I had a single target and knew where he was going to be precisely, I'd use a pipe claymore loaded with the synergy shot and blast him point blank via remote.

A manufactured weapon is too traceable.

[green beret]

Yeah, I know, I meant a home made shotgun anyway.

[Chade]

This seems to be another idea based on the general idea of delivery of a toxin to a target within line of sight. Your toxin would have to be contained until it reached the target for your protection, and then, for maximum effect, injected. Firearms make this trickier. I'd go for the classic blowpipe, if you have a toxin powerful enough. Very easy to make and conceal. Even air rifles can break the skin, especially with the right ammo. i don't know about anyone else, but I doubt my abilities to make hollow tipped firearm ammunition, and I strongly suspect that you'd need it with a gun. Bows and crossbows are also easy enough to acquire or make, and can often handle a decent payload at the front.

[Kid Orgo]

I know it wouldn't be so much of a problem with shot in a shot-shell, but wouldn't any drilling into a bullet have to be PRECISELY centered and balanced? Wouldn't poisoning bullets, unless done completely right totally fuck the accuracy up?

[zaibatsu]

Which is why you'd do it on a lathe. Or I'm sure you could knock up a jig to center the bullets to HP them. You could even produce a small "Fonly"-style lathe to do it, a large commercial lathe would be unnecessary.

[xyz]

There are commercial shotshells that use tungsten powder bound with a plastic as shot. What about mixing cyanide with a metal powder and then binding it with a plastic? You would want to design them to shatter on impact to release all the cyanide. Or you could use a water soluble binder so that they dissolved inside the victim and released the poison that way.

[Anthony]

Are we presuming that commercial hollowpoints aren't available?

[nbk2000]

If you're a soldier, than you're not going to be issued HP ammo, nor have ready access to it.

But, if I was a soldier, and having to use puny 5.56 FMJ ammo, then I'd be nocking it with an X in the tip, so it'd fragment inside the enemy. Of course, such things are considered "inhumane" weapons, thus a war crime, but that's only if you lose the war. :D

In a 30rd mag, just load in 27 Dum-Dums, and top the mag with 3 FMJ so the sargent doesn't spot 'em. ;) You'll be blowing ragheads to paradise with one shot, instead of 4 or 5 like it's currently taking.

[xyz]

Originally posted by Anthony
Are we presuming that commercial hollowpoints aren't available?

We are talking about shotshells aren't we? If we are talking about rifles then yes, hollowpoints filled with nasties are the obvious solution.

[Anthony]

Kid Orgo mention drilling bullets, so I presume that we were talking about either.