Ammonpulver (NH4NO3 + C)

[Guerilla]

The mix:
AMMONIUM NITRATE 88%
CHARCOAL POWDER 12%

Hi

I would like to try ammonium nitrate based explosivs, but not ANFO cause it´s impossible to detonate amounts lower than 1kg, if not pressed hard. So I interested about mix of ammonium nitrate and charcoal, ammonpulver. Have anyone tried? Is it even useful and is it possible to detonate in smaller amounts?

I made a search, but didn´t find very much informations. Anyway, germans used it as a cannon powder, cause its kinda slow burning...

Hope I didn´t get branded <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

thx

[Mr Cool]

Ammonpulver and Amidpulver are both low explosives, used as propellants.
I don't think you will have much luck detonating it.

[DBSP]

Look if you want a AN based explosive that detonates in small quantities your best choice is ANNM. Both powerfull and easy to detonate. ANFO can be detonated in ammounts smaller than 1kg, Alen detoanted 1/2 kg of ANSOY, one hell of a booster though. There is a vid of that detonation. And it's easier to detonate low density explosive than it is to detonate a high density one(binary explosives, not primaries <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).

[mr.evil]

Hey,
if i'm right, your first post may NOT be a topic.
also, you have post in the wrong section, Ammonpulver is an Low Explosive.

but anyway, Ammoniumnitrate CAN be detonated pure, when a very very big booster is used, but mostly AN explosives contain an Fuel, like Nitromethane(ANNM) or Oil(ANFO).

Cya

[vulture]

Ammonpulver is very blackpowder similar and it's certainly not a HE.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

Ammonpulver deflagerates when exposed to flame, but when initiated with a big cap it will detonate. Its just like anfo except its uses charcoal instead of fuel oil. I detonated a small haagen das icecream tub full of Ammonpulver last year. I didnt weight the charge but it was probally around 400 grams. I didnt have alot of primary around so i added about 10 ml of nitroglycerin to sensitive it. I detonated the charge under 4 ft of dirt with a 5 gram cap. Not sure what explosive was in the cap, probally AP or HMTD.

Oh, and the ANSOY video is no longer on the net. It got deleted by angelfire :mad:

I have the video on a tape somewhere around here. If i find it i'll upload it to my site.

<small>[ March 23, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: ALENGOSVIG1 ]</small>

[Bitter]

Ammonpulver is 'kinda slow burning' only whilst cool. At elevated temperatures (35 deg C +), I heard it's burning rate shoots up rapidly.

[Anthony]

Would that be because of the change in crystal struction that NH4NO3 goes through at high room temp?

[EventHorizon]

Just add some et-OH to the AN+C, add ¾g HMTD cap and "boom". As little as a film can will go off, at least that is what 'someone' told me. :rolleyes:

[Bitter]

That's right Anthony, the crystals get smaller don't they, increasing the surface area and thus the burn rate.

[nbk2000]

I remember a topic by (I believe) c0deblue last year or two about converting AN to a highly porous form by using a pressure cooker. Densities of 0.8, 0.6, or less were achieved. I think the lightest was 0.34. This would make the ammonpulver extremely fast burning as a propellant, and much easier to detonate as an explosive.

[Anthony]

I had a quick bash at producing some low density NH4NO3, but I simply ended up sucking boiling NH4NO3 solution into my vacuum pump.

[rikkitikkitavi]

what about dissolving NH4NO3 in a volatile solvent, and mixing it with active carbon
and then vapourize the solvent.

Should be much more intimately mixed, and afterwards the mix can be grinded down to a fine powder..(carefully)

/rickard

<small>[ March 25, 2002, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: rikkitikkitavi ]</small>

[mark]

Has anyone made Ammonpulver here? Im interested in using it for cratermakers(LE) and I was wondering what the formula for it is. Thanks. Also, any more info you may have on it would be nice, as my search yeilded little.

[mr.evil]

yes me, it doesn't burn at all in open air.. i don't have tried it confined... i think AN is a shitty oxidizer in Pyrotechnics, it is Hygroscopic, doesn't work well, is expensive....personally i like KNO3, KClO3 and KMnO4.

[mark]

Ilack anything else, cept matches.

[Polverone]

When I got a large amount of NH4NO3 recently I tried formulating some different pyro comps with it. It generally sucks. I have gotten a mix of it and powdered charcoal to burn, but it is not nearly as vigorous as a metal nitrate. This might change under confinement but I haven't tried that. It burns pretty well with zinc dust (ammonium nitrate, ammonium chloride, and zinc dust make a mix that ignites on contact with water, much faster and more spectacular than KMnO4 and glycerin). With sugar it is very bad - difficult to ignite, slow to burn, prone to go out - but in the right proportions it makes a huge black "snake" of carbon almost like you get from those little snake pellets. But for me, at least, it was quite cheap - $14.50 for 80 pounds - and came as pretty pure prills. Recrystalizng gave beautiful long needles and separated some small amount of greasy/oily material (not sure what it was). I might try some more mixes, only this time with confinement, but I do not have high hopes.

[wantsomfet]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> I remember a topic by (I believe) c0deblue last year or two about converting AN to a highly porous form by using a pressure cooker. Densities of 0.8, 0.6, or less were achieved. I think the lightest was 0.34. This would make the ammonpulver extremely fast burning as a propellant, and much easier to detonate as an explosive.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Again i present the patent: US #3,713,915 "Ammonium Nitrate Explosive Compositions". The density of NH4NO3 can be reduced to 0,1g/cm3.
Reduced AN will also lead to significant lowered VOD.

<a href="http://cloud.prohosting.com/itwas009/P_3,279,965.zip" target="_blank">http://cloud.prohosting.com/itwas009/P_3,279,965.zip</a>

<small>[ April 05, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: wantsomfet ]</small>

[Azazel]

mark just mix it in the ratios listed at the start of this post... it is by weight i would pressume...

Amonpulver... german is origin i would say ???? boh
might go try make some right bout now... see how it turns out... i never have much luck with ammonium nitrate based stuff though...

yes i know its a noob question but anyone wana share with me the best way of taking the shite outa the prills and removing water. i have read about grinding up the prills soaking them in alcohol and then cooking them... this sounds like something else though... kinda similar to the ANNM method

me hides in shame

[mr.evil]

i've just did an Ammonpulver test under confinemend. It sucks! not even a cloud of smoke..what a waste of chemicals :(

i don't get it, alot of people say it works fine...

[DBSP]

I allso tried it yesterday. I ignated it in the open and confined in a paper tube and in an aluminum tube.
It's allost impossible to ignite it unconfined but I could get it off with a butane burner. It only fissed and gave off some small ammounts off smoke. There must be a way to speed the burning up a bit. Perhaps adding some Al or something.

[mr.evil]

Hello,
i've tested my Ammonpulver in an Al pipe, nothing happened.
i've also changed the C by Al, nothing happened :(

i guess NH4NO3 based LE's are really poor..

[Mr Cool]

Try Amidpulver, use about 15% charcoal, 15% KNO3 and 70% NH4NO3. It should be easier to ignite.

[Azazel]

have you guys with the same problems gotten ANFO's or any other AN based explosives to work before ? if your answer is no its because your ammonium nitrate is off poor quality and has reacted with water molecules in the air...

Also try making the shit into a heavy solid cake... these solid fuels generally work in "cake" forms... reason behind that because when u get a fizzle it actually starts it off, and when pressed tightly together other close by particles begin to ignite and it gets larger and larger etc etc. sounds dumb but it works often... same goes for KNO3 sugar smoke...

remember this is a rocket fuel not an extremely fast burning powder... otherwise youd just get an explosion if it was... PACK THE CRAP together ok... and relax this is perfectly safe to do for those n00bs out there

[DBSP]

What about adding some sugar to increase the burn rate of the KNO3?

[DBSP]

I've tried your method Mr cool, it works much better. I tried adding some some sugar (5% of the total ammount) and it worked allright. I'm not shure wether it was good or bad.

It still isn't fast enaugh to be a rocket propellant though.

[NoltaiR]

Making the transition from C to Al is probably a lot more complex than you think.. while NH4NO3 + C is a highly energetic (yet low burn rate) LE, the mixture of NH4NO3 + Al is actually an old HE munition (as described by the IM handbook. The mix is simply required to be finely ground and intimately mixed, as well as placed in a steel pipe where the full power of the cap will be felt on the HE mix.