Anthony
March 17th, 2003, 07:28 PM
UncleSam
A new voice
Posts: 3
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 22, 2001 11:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a bit of a newbie in explosives and there is a rock the size of a small car in the middle of my field. I wish to get rid of it. I don't have lots of lab equipment and where i live you can't buy any type of explosives(I'm not american). We can't even buy god damn ammo(we need a permit and i don't have it). And i don't have lots of neighboors so the noise is not a problem. What would you suggest besides hirring a pro ?
P.S.: Something that could explode with home made fuse would be great.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 22, 2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An AP initiated AN explosive should be good for the task, I doubt the amount of AP required to destroy a rock of that size would be practical/safe to make. ANNM should be good.
Doing a Seach for "AP", "acetone peroxide" "AN" "amonium nitrate", "ANNM", "nitromethane" sgould turn up a lot of useful information.
atropine
Frequent Poster
Posts: 129
From: wales
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 22, 2001 01:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole idea of this part of the forum is to discuss how to MAKE explosives. The only reason it is here at all is because normal folk can't go out and by C-4 or amatol. But for moving rock anfo or annm are best. If you wanna split the rock and have shards of rasor sharp rock slice everyhing up like gunfire then use peroxides of NG.
Morrigan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: The Netherlands
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 22, 2001 02:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As big as a small car? I would bet that not even 10 kilo’s ANFO would get rid of that, at least not from the outside. If you could drill a hole into that piece of rock or something a 2 kilo ANNM charge would probably reduce it to smaller blocks that you can remove with a tractor. Drilling a hole of that size and length is not gonna be easy though.
you also will need blasting caps, Acetone peroxide will do. And about that homemade fuse, I wouldn't use that considering the ammount of explosive needed.
Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 291
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 22, 2001 03:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You certainly will have a problem getting rid of a rock that size...but not to worry, just check out the links available to different people's sites and I am sure you will find something you are capable of making. ANFO is used in mines apparently, so I am sure that (or ANNM, as Anthony and Morrigan suggest, if you can obtain nitro-methane) will be sufficient to dispose of this offending object.
Oh yes, and make sure you stay away from 'Kewl' explosives, like those detailed in totse.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 22, 2001 03:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure one of the HE mods will move thise thread to Misc.
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 22, 2001 05:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forget about explosives, you need to hire some heavy duty stuff to do the job (break it then remove). It's going to be safer and cheaper too.
Is the rock a sedimentary?
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 01:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a big fucking hammer would be easier than making and using explosives.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 23, 2001 04:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you should consult one of the field manuals ( army ). Then you can calculate how much explosive you would need with different kinds of tamping. For instance, if your rock is tough eg. granite, ANFO will do just about nothing at all if you use an external charge. So you need to know if you can drill a deep hole into it that is wide enough to contain the amount of explosive you will need.
Once you have calculated the charge size and determined the placement you will be employing, you can use an approximate Relative Effectiveness factor to figure out how much to use of your choice of explosive.
Generally speaking, if you can make an explosive that is brisant enough to shatter the rock from the outside, you can place it on top of the rock and tamp it with mud or bags of water. Then most of the fragments will be thrown downwards, into the ground.
Jhonbus
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 10:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In an ideal world, you would stick something like this on top of the rock....
Unfortunately this is not an ideal world
My best suggestion would probably be to get a contractor in to do the work (although that isn't necessarily what I would do myself )
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 03:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not something you should do yourself, especially if you have no previous explosives experience. In fact I would doubt that using an explosive to do to do it would be very safe at all, in order to smash it into small enough pieces to be transported rather than just cracked, you are going to get a lot of projectile rocks flying around.
Perhaps drilling holes and putting some commercial product that expands when wetted and cracks the rock would be a better choice.
The best advice I can provide is to find a professional to do this for you.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 23, 2001 07:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you lived in a cold place, could you use water (overnight it will freeze)?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 08:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The egyptions made good use of wooden stakes hammered into cracks in the stone, they then soakd the stake with salt water, the stakes swelled and broke the rock.
Someone suggested before, a way to crack a rock is to drill a 1/2" hole in it, fill the hole with water then put a 1/2" steel rod into the hole with some tissue paper wading (so that the rod will support itself on the surface of the water) then smack the rod with a sledgehammer. The hydrostatic presseure breaks the rock. Not sure whether this would work on such a large rock though?
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 23, 2001 10:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would figure that if you drilled many holes in the rock and then do the metal dowel idea with the water and do that to all of the cracks you woule take off piece by piece
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 24, 2001 07:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a bit mystified by your attitudes ( all of you ), it was not my impression that this forum was so concerned with safety.
Afterall, he stated that there is a long way to his neighbours and if he has an entire field, then I think he has an excellent opportunity to gain some experience in these matters.
If I recall correctly, there was enthusiastic talk of detonating an entire oil-barrel full of ANFO not too long ago.
I'd suggest you start slow, getting a feel for things like AP or HMTD, then build up to perhaps nitroglycerine.
You can use NG to chip off small pieces, just like the hydro-static model.
Foodos
Frequent Poster
Posts: 210
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 08:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
recall also, the person atropine (i think) with the anfo drum is a semi-newbie at the forum, but a veteran of explosives (you would have gathered this reading his posts). this guy could hurt himself, or others, land in jail, blah blah blah.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 08:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People are either having dreams about detonating an explosive in a remote area and leaving the area after or posses proper licenses for handling and detonating explosives for legitimate reasons. Also the people usually posses experience with much smaller quantities of the explosive they use (in dream or otherwise) and have read lots about the subject and are technically informed.
For someone who just wants to smash a rock in their backyard, they are looking for practicality (ie, not losing life or limb). And are probably interested in not going to jail.
Microtek, your attitude says that you would be also ok with giving a kewl bomber information and encouragement to detonate a large amount of HE. The kewl bomber would not know the slightest meaning of the information and their safety would be jeopardized.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 25, 2001 09:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone heard from Atropine in the last few days?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 25, 2001 09:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vehemt, I think you misunderstand.
What I'm saying is that I think it's odd
that people answer in this way to some-
one that is a comparatively sensible-
seeming person with a valid request for
information.
If everyone else hadn't been so forthcoming
with warnings, I would have been the one administering the words of caution.
That said, I still think he has a much better opportunity for using explosives than the average poster on this forum.
What he needs is guidance on how to proceed,
so he can avoid most of the pitfalls in this field.
Oh by the way, he said the rock was in his field, which implies acres of land, rather than an ordinary back yard.
In my opinion, what defines a kewl bomber is his perspective rather than his knowledge, so I don't think you could call this guy kewl ( based on what he has said thus far ).
A new voice
Posts: 3
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 22, 2001 11:10 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a bit of a newbie in explosives and there is a rock the size of a small car in the middle of my field. I wish to get rid of it. I don't have lots of lab equipment and where i live you can't buy any type of explosives(I'm not american). We can't even buy god damn ammo(we need a permit and i don't have it). And i don't have lots of neighboors so the noise is not a problem. What would you suggest besides hirring a pro ?
P.S.: Something that could explode with home made fuse would be great.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 22, 2001 01:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An AP initiated AN explosive should be good for the task, I doubt the amount of AP required to destroy a rock of that size would be practical/safe to make. ANNM should be good.
Doing a Seach for "AP", "acetone peroxide" "AN" "amonium nitrate", "ANNM", "nitromethane" sgould turn up a lot of useful information.
atropine
Frequent Poster
Posts: 129
From: wales
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 22, 2001 01:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole idea of this part of the forum is to discuss how to MAKE explosives. The only reason it is here at all is because normal folk can't go out and by C-4 or amatol. But for moving rock anfo or annm are best. If you wanna split the rock and have shards of rasor sharp rock slice everyhing up like gunfire then use peroxides of NG.
Morrigan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 81
From: The Netherlands
Registered: OCT 2000
posted February 22, 2001 02:52 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As big as a small car? I would bet that not even 10 kilo’s ANFO would get rid of that, at least not from the outside. If you could drill a hole into that piece of rock or something a 2 kilo ANNM charge would probably reduce it to smaller blocks that you can remove with a tractor. Drilling a hole of that size and length is not gonna be easy though.
you also will need blasting caps, Acetone peroxide will do. And about that homemade fuse, I wouldn't use that considering the ammount of explosive needed.
Bitter
Frequent Poster
Posts: 291
From: 11 Downing Street, London, England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 22, 2001 03:25 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You certainly will have a problem getting rid of a rock that size...but not to worry, just check out the links available to different people's sites and I am sure you will find something you are capable of making. ANFO is used in mines apparently, so I am sure that (or ANNM, as Anthony and Morrigan suggest, if you can obtain nitro-methane) will be sufficient to dispose of this offending object.
Oh yes, and make sure you stay away from 'Kewl' explosives, like those detailed in totse.
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 22, 2001 03:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sure one of the HE mods will move thise thread to Misc.
HMTD Factory
Frequent Poster
Posts: 217
From:
Registered: FEB 2001
posted February 22, 2001 05:14 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forget about explosives, you need to hire some heavy duty stuff to do the job (break it then remove). It's going to be safer and cheaper too.
Is the rock a sedimentary?
Stone
Frequent Poster
Posts: 140
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 01:53 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think a big fucking hammer would be easier than making and using explosives.
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 23, 2001 04:48 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think you should consult one of the field manuals ( army ). Then you can calculate how much explosive you would need with different kinds of tamping. For instance, if your rock is tough eg. granite, ANFO will do just about nothing at all if you use an external charge. So you need to know if you can drill a deep hole into it that is wide enough to contain the amount of explosive you will need.
Once you have calculated the charge size and determined the placement you will be employing, you can use an approximate Relative Effectiveness factor to figure out how much to use of your choice of explosive.
Generally speaking, if you can make an explosive that is brisant enough to shatter the rock from the outside, you can place it on top of the rock and tamp it with mud or bags of water. Then most of the fragments will be thrown downwards, into the ground.
Jhonbus
Frequent Poster
Posts: 346
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 10:55 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In an ideal world, you would stick something like this on top of the rock....
Unfortunately this is not an ideal world
My best suggestion would probably be to get a contractor in to do the work (although that isn't necessarily what I would do myself )
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 03:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is not something you should do yourself, especially if you have no previous explosives experience. In fact I would doubt that using an explosive to do to do it would be very safe at all, in order to smash it into small enough pieces to be transported rather than just cracked, you are going to get a lot of projectile rocks flying around.
Perhaps drilling holes and putting some commercial product that expands when wetted and cracks the rock would be a better choice.
The best advice I can provide is to find a professional to do this for you.
blackadder
Frequent Poster
Posts: 313
From: London
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 23, 2001 07:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you lived in a cold place, could you use water (overnight it will freeze)?
Anthony
Moderator
Posts: 2312
From: England
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 23, 2001 08:21 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The egyptions made good use of wooden stakes hammered into cracks in the stone, they then soakd the stake with salt water, the stakes swelled and broke the rock.
Someone suggested before, a way to crack a rock is to drill a 1/2" hole in it, fill the hole with water then put a 1/2" steel rod into the hole with some tissue paper wading (so that the rod will support itself on the surface of the water) then smack the rod with a sledgehammer. The hydrostatic presseure breaks the rock. Not sure whether this would work on such a large rock though?
sealsix6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 154
From: NYC,NYC,USA
Registered: NOV 2000
posted February 23, 2001 10:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would figure that if you drilled many holes in the rock and then do the metal dowel idea with the water and do that to all of the cracks you woule take off piece by piece
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 24, 2001 07:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a bit mystified by your attitudes ( all of you ), it was not my impression that this forum was so concerned with safety.
Afterall, he stated that there is a long way to his neighbours and if he has an entire field, then I think he has an excellent opportunity to gain some experience in these matters.
If I recall correctly, there was enthusiastic talk of detonating an entire oil-barrel full of ANFO not too long ago.
I'd suggest you start slow, getting a feel for things like AP or HMTD, then build up to perhaps nitroglycerine.
You can use NG to chip off small pieces, just like the hydro-static model.
Foodos
Frequent Poster
Posts: 210
From:
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 08:23 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
recall also, the person atropine (i think) with the anfo drum is a semi-newbie at the forum, but a veteran of explosives (you would have gathered this reading his posts). this guy could hurt himself, or others, land in jail, blah blah blah.
vehemt
Frequent Poster
Posts: 580
From: Canada
Registered: SEP 2000
posted February 24, 2001 08:51 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People are either having dreams about detonating an explosive in a remote area and leaving the area after or posses proper licenses for handling and detonating explosives for legitimate reasons. Also the people usually posses experience with much smaller quantities of the explosive they use (in dream or otherwise) and have read lots about the subject and are technically informed.
For someone who just wants to smash a rock in their backyard, they are looking for practicality (ie, not losing life or limb). And are probably interested in not going to jail.
Microtek, your attitude says that you would be also ok with giving a kewl bomber information and encouragement to detonate a large amount of HE. The kewl bomber would not know the slightest meaning of the information and their safety would be jeopardized.
Mr Cool
Frequent Poster
Posts: 991
From: None of your bloody business!
Registered: DEC 2000
posted February 25, 2001 09:11 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Has anyone heard from Atropine in the last few days?
Microtek
Frequent Poster
Posts: 194
From:
Registered: JAN 2001
posted February 25, 2001 09:36 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vehemt, I think you misunderstand.
What I'm saying is that I think it's odd
that people answer in this way to some-
one that is a comparatively sensible-
seeming person with a valid request for
information.
If everyone else hadn't been so forthcoming
with warnings, I would have been the one administering the words of caution.
That said, I still think he has a much better opportunity for using explosives than the average poster on this forum.
What he needs is guidance on how to proceed,
so he can avoid most of the pitfalls in this field.
Oh by the way, he said the rock was in his field, which implies acres of land, rather than an ordinary back yard.
In my opinion, what defines a kewl bomber is his perspective rather than his knowledge, so I don't think you could call this guy kewl ( based on what he has said thus far ).