C-ANFO, APAN & AP Experiements

[spydamonkee]

300 grams <a href="http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000209#000043" target="_blank">Activated AN</a> was used to make a 1kg anfo charge, the other 700 grams was crushed CAN prills and 60 grams deasiel

1 grams of AP in a 38 special round was used as the det in 150 grams APAN, AP 50 grams AN 100 grams in a empty baking soda container

charge was detonated at a remote coastal beach buried 1 meter into a bank and 1 meter deep next to a flax bush, we were around the corner with our 60 meters of cable with the video camera set up to capture the blast effects and sound.

On firing the charge hearing a small dull thud we thought it was 'another' failure but on closer inspection we realised it did a fair bit of damage after finding undetonated CAN prills imbedded in the clay at the bottom of the crater we realised it was only a partial detonation, about half or 2/3's of the charge went off, we were impressed with the amount of dirt and clay it moved despite the size of the charge.

our next experiment is to crush 5 - 10kg of CAN prills (we might do two charges one crushed CAN the other activated AN out of the CAN)
we plan to dislodge the flax bush and create a nice crater and maybe a slip :p :D :p

(ill upload all my videos of this and other experiments { including our projectile blasts... 40 gallon drum shot 10 meters into the air & a roadcone going into orbit before breaking apart! :D }later today when i get it edited, if someone knows of a good free, popup free web server that would be a big help otherwise ill upload it to the ftp)

<small>[ August 24, 2002, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: spydamonkee ]</small>

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Someday when I move to the Great White North I'll be setting off HEs in the kilogram range too. :D

free.prohosting.com
Files sometimes get deleted randomly (not that often though).

<a href="http://www.netfirms.com" target="_blank">www.netfirms.com</a>
Overall good, but less hosting space than the above.

[KinePak]

If you have a static IP address you can setup your own FTp address free of charge, just download GuildFTP.

If you use a dialup connection I will let set up an account for you on my FTP, and you can just upload all of your stuff onto my FTP. So just let me know if you need some help with that.

[spydamonkee]

Well as i promised here are some <a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/spyDAmonkee/" target="_blank">Videos</a> for ya'll
i just quickly edited the anfo one so it aint very good, we dont think it was a full detonation even though it was 1 meter into the bank and 1 meter deep, we found CaN prills in the crater so some didnt work, it still did some dmg was about 2 wheelbarrows of dirt,clay n sand moved

*ill add the APAN drum vid lata

[Ctrl_C]

This is the first true test of the linking capabilities of the ftp. So far so good. Changed idle time out from 5min to 1min. Nice, doesn't exactly stream...but whaddaya want for a residential connection.

Nice videos by the way. I would say that if you wanted it to definately detonate, put some APAN near the det...not the whole charge but more like det--&gt;APAN--&gt;300g aAN--&gt;pAN. I am almost positive you an get the prills to detonate this way.

[spydamonkee]

my det was surrounded by apan as it was in a apan booster which was in the anfo, i think the remains we found in the crater were calcium remains and CaN Prills which had not been crushed so did not absorb deasiel because of the calcium coating so were not sensitized enuff to detonate
well we will be seing what 10kg's does soon so im sure we will be saying farewell to the flaxbush :D

<small>[ August 26, 2002, 12:17 AM: Message edited by: spydamonkee ]</small>

[Ctrl_C]

I rather hastily read your post and neglected to see that. Kudos though

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Damn, 10kg of HE! Has anyone else ever set off a charge even near to that in size?!

[spydamonkee]

er, maybe i shoudl explain why i need to test a 10kg charge

ok drumroll please..........

we plan to set off 100 kgs of anfo :D :p :)

thats in 10 lots of 10kg charges buried @ 3 - 5 meter intervals into the side of this small hill thats in the way of a motox track we are making, charges will be electrically fired with a delay inbetween each charge so they dirt will be moved to the side not straight up
posthole borer is gonna be used to make the holes and they will be angled so the charges will throw the dirt out from the side of the hill.
boosters will be 100 - 200 grams of APAN with a AP cap
gonna need about 1km of electrical cable though :D
electrical firing system im gonna make is basically gonna be a switch box with ten smooth on/off switches & two master safty switches
so when the two masters are 'live' all is required is toeither press each switch or 'run' you finger over them starting from one end to the other thus creating a small delay between each charge going off.

the idea is this will make number one charge blow the dirt up & out then number two will go off moving number ones dirt to the side while blasting its own dirt up & out and so on.

we have a small loader that will be able to take care of the rest

i have the privalidge of knowing 3 people who have been involved with different type of commercial blasting :)

oh and never fear i will be getting this on tape for ya all :p

<small>[ August 26, 2002, 03:23 AM: Message edited by: spydamonkee ]</small>

[Cricket]

I don't know exactly how big that is, but I do know that is one fucking huge pile of ANFO! Ohh man, this'l be sweet! I was always thinking a 5 gallon bucket would be a nice blast, but you are a little more on the edge huh! Well shit man, good luck to you and your dump truck full of ANFO.

[Pu239 Stuchtiger]

Oh my god! Holy fucking shit that is insanity to the extremest (doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

[Flake2m]

if you want another way to detonate the AN charge, use a breadboarded 4017 decade counter with all 10 of the outputs connected to relays. The timer for the 4017 is a 555 astable, by adjusting the capacitors and the resistors the time in between detonatation can be set from &gt;1sec to &lt;10secs. All you have to do is press on and BANG.

Also if you want your explosion to be more powerful, add some zinc, aluminium or magnesium powder to the mixture, along with the APAN.

P.S make sure there are no sheep in the area <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (joke).

[DarkAngel]

Do guys remember Atropine with his plan to detonate a drum full of ANFO?.He never actually did it,i hope you will.Make shure to get it on tape.

[spydamonkee]

100kgs really aint that much, as a 50kg sack aint that big, i rekon a drumfull of ANFO would be 80 - 100kgs now thats a big charge all going off @ once especially if he was gonna do it above land.

this would probably be my only huge amount i would set off @ once cause of the time and effot involved not to mention the noise and damage it does :D
we chose to use HE to move the side of the hill cause its a HELL of alot cheaper than hiring a big excavator.
well we doing a 800gr test of this 40kg bag of near pure AN that we aquired :p if it goes without a hitch we will be able to get these bags whenever we need em :p
we gonna use a filmcanister of AP as our det for the 800gr charge, and if it works we might use it for our 10kg charge we are gonna test soon.

will upload vid to ftp if the test is a success

[THErAPIST]

ive been thinkin about setting off a 2 liter pepsi bottle full of ANFO in the lake in the woods near my house but my HMTD yeilds have been poorer than shit lately due to me having to use 3% H202 evaporated to 6%. but shit, you blew my idea away.
have fun

[0EZ0]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Do guys remember Atropine with his plan to detonate a drum full of ANFO?.He never actually did it,i hope you will. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Certainly do DarkAngel. If memory serves, atropine disappeared soon after telling us of his plans to take out an abandoned builing with half an oil drum of ANFO :( .
<a href="http://odin.prohosting.com/~forumtwo/may01/20011117-1-000205.html" target="_blank">Here</a> is the thread on atropine and his ANFO plans, for people who are unaware of what happened.

Anyone know what happened to atropine?

[spydamonkee]

yea a "friend" involved gave me shit for posting it on here because of circumstances that could arise.
had a daydream today and a dream a few hours ago, one was 800gr anfo partially detonating while floating in half a meter of water, the other was a failed 8kg anfo charge
i know now the main reasons my anfo charges have been failing, i have only had 2 charges that i "think" went off or @ least partially detonated, my 1kg in the flaxbush definatly partially detonated as you can see the thick NO2? smoke drifting everywhere, read me first post in this thread for info on that charge.

The 800gr dream today "might" have partially detonated but after looking thru the video that was captured using the "Dream Catcher 3000 - Day Version" im now inclined to think that it was just the film canister of AP making the spray of water and the bang as the anfo if it had detonated would have gone boom and ALOT of water would have been moved and their would be the telltale white smoke.

Dream... and see for yourself &gt; <a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/spyDAmonkee/" target="_blank">ANFO 800g - Water - Fail.mpg</a>

hehe that video clip cracks me up the dude that does the videoing is a real funny fulla, gotta love the "BANG" 'giggle giggle snort giggle' lmao

<small>[ August 27, 2002, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: spydamonkee ]</small>

[EP]

0EZ0 - I think atropine stopped posted due to legal problems from his HMTD accident (co2 cartridge full of it went off in his pocket :( )

On a more cheerful not, this ANFO plan looks like a lot of fun!

[spydamonkee]

well for the experimenters involved so far is been downright frustrating because of the failures we have experianced because of the coated AN
our activated ANFO has detonated nicly
our Crushed CaNFO has detonated
Instant ICEPACK ANFO 'should' detonate easy as its near pure AN Prills

Well i dont think i wanna buy like a few thousand coldpacks and i dont wanna have to activate over 100kgs of coated CaN or AN so i think i'll be buying me a grinder like a grain grinder so we can grind our fertaliser up just enuff to break the coating so the deasiel will soak into the AN to sensitize it.
I
have no problem retaining a low density in the ANFO as i have aquired some 'water softner resins' that are like the tiny little plastic balls used <a href="http://www.sasol.co.za/explosives/technology/content.asp" target="_blank">comercially</a> to acheive the same goal

[Sam]

Hehehe, 100Kg, are you nuts? Thats a lot! Some terrorists were caught in America recently with about 17 Tonnes of AN, imagine what they could have done with that!

[trev]

100KG yes you could certainly have some fun with that
Well i know i could

[Flake2m]

You should be able to get hold of a few bags of An without alot of problems. Farmers use AN as fertilizer for they crops and the grasses that the sheep feed off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> If you go to a bulk agricultural store you should be able to buy a few bags of AN 30kg for AU$25 each.

I have an idea with regards to your 100kg det.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> thats in 10 lots of 10kg charges buried @ 3 - 5 meter intervals into the side of this small hill thats in the way of a motox track we are making, charges will be electrically fired with a delay inbetween each charge so they dirt will be moved to the side not straight up
posthole borer is gonna be used to make the holes and they will be angled so the charges will throw the dirt out from the side of the hill.
boosters will be 100 - 200 grams of APAN with a AP cap
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">My idea is that you could have a piece of PVC pipe 80mm wide (or what ever you can get hold of) and about a meter long. Inside the PVC pipe is another pipe (cardboard/PVC etc) that is about 25-40mm wide. The 80mm pipe has an endcap on the bottom of it and has the main ANFO/ANNM charge, the narrower pipe contains the booster and the detonators etc. you could make each of these charges at home and then transport them to the site where you simply have to drop them down the hole wire up all the charges and then push the button :D .I also realise that gasoline (petrol) dissolves PVC so just use the casing that is the most suitable.

[zaibatsu]

I believe atropine is still well and healthy, he's on my MSN list. But I think the HMTD understandedly put him off explosives

[Anthony]

You could almost half your wire requirement by running a common neutral wire to say 10m from the charges and then running individual spurs to each charge. Obviously you still need individual positive connections from the blasting box.

[spydamonkee]

yea i was thinking about trying something like that, just dont want the negitive wire to get destroyed by the first charge/s making the others not work understandably it will be in parallel (lol @ serial :p )
10 meters should be fine though, ill see how much wire gets destroyed by a 10kg charge in the weekend :D , most wire been mangeled so far is when 1kg partially went off, about half a meter was damaged

[Ctrl_C]

@Spyda

the link in your sig needs to be: <a href="ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/spyDAmonkee/" target="_blank">ftp://ewf:sd332gf@209.195.155.80/Hosted%20Images/spyDAmonkee/</a>

otherwise its asking for anonymous access which is not permitted.

[ShockWave]

How did you crush up you CAN ?

My CAN is in prilled form and the blender can not powder them.

And the dieslefuel does not soak into the CAN.

Maybe a strong coffeegrinder ?

[ShockWave]

I found a way to crush up the CAN, in 15 minutes I can crush 5Kg CAN, that is faster than boiling the water off :D

I have done several test with CAN.

APCAN works very very good.
Cannm Works very good too, these test were done with crushed CAN.

I have tryed to let dieselfuel soaking into the CAN but does not work when it is still in prilled form, so I crushed up 10KG of CAN and it stood for 3 days to let the 400ml dieselfuel soak into the AN.

I used a 652gram ANNM booster, but it was no full detonation I guess.

See the pictures, they tell more.

<a href="http://apanshock.tripod.com/ResultsTests.htm" target="_blank">http://apanshock.tripod.com/ResultsTests.htm</a>

Question: DieselFuel has a nasty smell and is staying in my house, Can I use instead of dieselfuel normal gasoline, since it smells better ?

And wouldn't be there some other Fuel what DOES soak through the Calcium, I have tryed NM, but even NM does not soak into priled CAN :confused:

[vulture]

What the hell are you thinking? Ofcourse AN with gasoline works, it stays a fuel/oxidizer mix after all.
I hope you enjoy sniffing the real good smelling gasoline...there are ofcourse people who like sniffing benzene fumes... :rolleyes:

[ShockWave]

But why is it always dieselfuel?

Maybe it does not evaporate as fast as gasoline does?

If gasoline works just as good as dieselfuel than I'll use gasoline.

[Anthony]

Yep, there's no issues with volatility, storage.

No eco-nuts ranting about "nasty" benzene.

Most importantly, diesel is a lot cheaper than "gasoline".

There's some information about AN and gasoline (and other fuels) in Kitchen Improvised Fertilizer Explosives.

[ShockWave]

100% succes with the CANFO !

I used about 8,5KG Calcium-Ammonium Nitrate, which is about 78% ammoniumnitrate and is for sell almost everywhere for 7euro(which is the same as a usa$)for 25KG !

I added 400ml of gasonline to the 8,5Kg CAN and waited for 1 day, in the middle of the CANFO was placed around 300gram ANNM booster with 5gram AP.

This whole bucket was burried 0,5 meter in the ground and I did lot's and lot's of sand on top of it, so it was around 1 meter deep.

I drove with car 150meters away from the blasting spot and pressed the button of the remoter, I'm sure that it was a full detonation since the kaboom was so scary loud and a crater 4 meters wide, it was dark so I didn't take any pictures or filmed it, tommorow I will take some pictures of the 4 meters wide crater, this is very funny because this extreme explosion cost only around 3,5 usa$ !! or 3,5euro !

[Ruroni]

25KG of CANFO for 7 bux?! The hell? I wish you had waited till day to detonate, would've liked to seen a vid :D . Where did you buy your sack?

[ShockWave]

At my site is a video with 4KG ANNM/AL which you can compare with 8,5KG C-AN, The 25KG CAN is available at the gardenshops, in holland under the name "KALKAMMONSALPETER"

[ShockWave]

Pictures are now at my site, they are at high resolution, sorry for that, but you can how much sand their is blast away.

<a href="http://apanshock.tripod.com/8kgCanfo.htm" target="_blank">http://apanshock.tripod.com/8kgCanfo.htm</a>

The next CANFO test will be with the prilled from so I don't have to crush them anymore, if it works then my next charge will be 25KG and that one I will capture on video, that is for sure !

But in an old post at this forum I read something about AN-S, I can't find many info at this, but if AN-Sulfur will work better than I will replace the gasoline with Sulfur, does anybody know more about this ?? Thanks !! :)

[Kriegsminister]

Hmmm... I've got to try using the pure fertilizer too.
I have a 50kg bag of "Kalkammonsalpter" fertilizer (27% nitrogen content) in my cellar.
Up to now I've always dissolved it in water, filtered the chalk out and boiled it to drive off the water. This process sucks alot!
And yes it's fuckin cheap, I payed around 13 euro for 50kg....

[spydamonkee]

yea man no need to recrystalize it just grind her up and let her rip as either APAN, ANNM or ANFO. i too will be trying a ANFO charge using Prilled CAN.

Let yaz in on my next project. *about 6kgs ANNM under a Car* :D

[ShockWave]

6KG ANNM under a car? wow make sure to capture it on video, that will be a very nice explosion !!

I have now standing the CAN with the gasoline for a few days but it will not soak into the CAN, I bought a bicycle tire nipple, I did it into a coca cola bottle and now I can fill my bottle with 3 BAR, dunno how much PSI it is, but then it will soak into the CAN, so my next step is to get a few of those empty 25litre airtight containers, 20kg with CAN-gasoline and put the pressure as high as the container can have.

[vulture]

Do keep in mind that dieselfuel will ignite when pressurized enough, this is the whole principle behind a diesel engine.
I'm not sure about gasoline, but that *shouldn't* ignite when pressurized.

[Anthony]

Petrol/gasoline will also ignite from compression ignition. However, like diesel, it requires quite high pressure and also temperature.

For example, it wouldn't be unusual to see a compression ratio of 12:1 in a deisel engine, 12x14.7psi = 176psi and it is an appropriate mix with air, and the chamber is hot.

I really don't think it will be a problem :)

[ShockWave]

No I'm sure that it will never ignite under only 3 bar of pressure.

I also notice that the gasoline will just drop to the bottem so you must shack your container every few hours, but what about motoroil?

Motoroil is very thick and will not drop to the bottom as fast as thin gasonline, and motoroil will not evaporate and will not give a nasty smell, but will motoroil work ?!

[Anthony]

As a fuel for ANFO it should. Half motor oil, half petrol/gasoline is often recomended as a substitute for diesel.

If you mean, will it work to penetrate the coated prills, then I doubt it, especially since you couldn't get a powerful sovent (petrol) to do so.

[vonK]

I have just detonated my first ever ANFO charge.
I used 420g of crushed C-AN. I'd say around 5% was still prilled, 10% was "flour" fine but the majority was just a little finer than table salt.
I put it in a 500ml glass jar(2.75" diameter), added 27ml of methylated spirits, stirred it round with a spoon, gave it a bit of a shake and left it with the lid on for three hours.
I used 100g of ammonia dynamite in a zip-lock bag as a booster and a small, 1g, pressed CTAP cap.
The dynamite was 70g C-AN, 30g nitroglycerine.
I poured out some of the ANFO into my brothers hands, dug a small hole in the ANFO, placed in the booster, cap assembly and poured the rest of the ANFO around it.
With the lid on the jar, fuse sticking out, I placed it in the bottom of a hole about 50cm deep and my brother and I filled it in, packing the dirt as much as we could.
Upon detonation there was a dull "THUMP" and a massive amount of dirt flew skywards.
The strong winds blew most of the dirt in my direction and I had to run while covering my head to avoid being hit by softball sized lumps of clay.
There seems to be absolutely no sign of undetonated explosive in the crater, which is about 1.3 meters by 1.6 meters and around 90cm deep.
Unfortunatley I have no equipment to get pictures with. I'll see if my Dad will let me borrow his work camera but it's unlikely.

I have to say that crushing the C-AN prills is no problem at all. I simply pour them in my mothers old Kenwood blender and let it rip.
The blades push the C-AN to the bottom then out to the sides and up so that the stuff on top falls down into the blades and repeats the cycle.
It took me less than a minute to grind that 420g.
I plan on detonating 1.5kg the next day I have free and from there the sky is the limit.

[ShockWave]

Great work, but still, the crushingjob sucks, for charges up to 5KG it works great but I want to make a couple of 25kg charges, It will take for me hours to crush the C-AN, If we can find a better fuel, we only have to open a bag and add some fuel.

[spydamonkee]

for the big charges of CAN i rekon the best idea is to use either a mixing drill or a concrete mixer to mix the CAN with the deasiel as this will chip the calcium coating off most of the prills allowing the deasiel to soak in. i plan on using a concrete mixer someday when i do a huge charge :D

was talking to a ex-blaster and he said they used concrete mixer all the time to mix their ANFO, they shouldnt be too much to hire and would be worth it anyway as you would only go to these lengths if the charge is over 20kg, blender works ok for charges under that.

[Ahs Scotttt]

sounds pretty nice care to send us a copy of the vid.

send it as an atachment to l_e_v_i_c_K@hotmail.com thanx mate:D

[blindreeper]

Ahh yes ANFO. I have been wanting to try this for ages. Unfortunatly the sound is an issue. With only 9 hectares to do it in it's hard. Well it's about 1km from any house. My 'pit' where I test small 100g ANMEKP charges is in a kinda valley in the middle of our block. I was wondering if I burried say a 250g ANFO charge 0.5m into the ground anmd coverd it with dirt/clay and added an extra 25cm of sand ontop of that would it be very loud. I really like the dull THUD and some dirt flying into the air. But I dun want any big loud sounds. I have let off 10g of AP putty above ground and holy shit did it make a thounderous BOOM! It sounded like thunder. Lucky no one has ever been up to our house EVER. Even after 5 or so cobs, explodin rockets, spud guns and various crackers. So my question is there nay way to get the ANFO muffled. I mean a film can of AP under 30cm of loose dirt is a nice THUD sound with some dirt flying about 1m in the air. Or maybe I should be doing some stuff with APAN? The only way to get AN for me is getting it froma garden store but I have already got dad to get a 50kg bag of KNO3. So Would PNAN make the PN detonate or is it just a better oxygen balance. I think I'll send dad in to get the AN as he needs it for his orchid (he accually has one and used the KNO3). Well thanks for the help with my dumb questions but don't want to get in trouble.

[0EZ0]

blindreeper, from your post it sounds like your a bit of a newb:D . But thats alright, everyone has to start somewhere.

A 250gm ANFO charge is getting a bit close to the minimum charge size. If you do carry out such a test, you may want to sensitise your ANFO a little more. There are topics in abundance about ANFO, just run a search. Specifically you may want to search for a topic called 'Cap sensitive ANFO'. xyz has run various tests seeing how ANFO can be made cap sensative. Depending on the sensativity/density/etc. of the charge, the minimum diameter can fluctuate quite widely. Personally i haven't heard of anyone getting a complete detonation of straight 5% FO ANFO in the x hundred gram amounts without a hell of a lot of confinement and a good det. Charge sizes of a kilo and over are used alot more widely. With the treating of the AN prills and other various sensitising methods, the minimum charge diameter can be brought down considerably, but usually sacrifices in power. Power usually described as VoD. There have been reports of almost complete detonation of charges down to the 250gm mark. Some of the other members have had that kind of first hand experience.

A small ANFO charge (x hundred gram amounts) half a meter under dense soil will not produce much sound other than a deep thud. However soil is thrown quite a distance, as you might hear around here :D. Above ground, the sound rises considerably. 1 kilo can easily be heard a couple of kilometers away, depending on the area of blast site.

To my knowledge if the nearest house is a kilometer away, you can get away with multiple kilogram amounts of ANFO... provided that the charges are buried at an adequet depth. It is also very interesting that the type of soil a charge is fired under, can also give quite varied effects on the visual display from detonation. Eg. in light fluffy soil, a charge seems to not throw as much dirt as a wet dense soil. Or that the light fluffy dirt doesn't clump at all and seems to appear as more of a dust cloud upon detonation. Anyway, you should not need to worry too much about the soil you intend to fire your charge in, just at what depth you bury it.

My advice to you about APAN is that you do not use large amounts of it. Also make sure that the percentage of AP is not above 15% by weight. Sensitivity increases too dramatically above that percentage to provide much protection from any shocks or bumps it recieves during transit to the blast site. There are many other much safer composites to choose from. It may mean a little more work, but safety should be everyone's first concern when delving into this unforgiving hobby.

The only way to get AN for me is getting it froma garden store but I have already got dad to get a 50kg bag of KNO3. So Would PNAN make the PN detonate or is it just a better oxygen balance. I think I'll send dad in to get the AN as he needs it for his orchid (he accually has one and used the KNO3)

I don't think your 'dad' would be too impressed to see his 'fertiliser' being used to make holes in his yard :D. Somethiing like 'What the hell happened to my lawn!?', 'Where did that nasty 6 foot crater come from?!'. You get the gyst :D . I suggest that any pyro projects you do should be small and discreet, at least when he is looking anyway;) .

So Would PNAN make the PN detonate or is it just a better oxygen balance. I think I'll send dad in to get the AN as he needs it for his orchid (he accually has one and used the KNO3).

What do you mean? Are you asking if AN needs an oxidiser:confused: ? What is the PN you are referring to? If you mean KNO3, please do not use the 'PN' abbreviation on this forum, or else no one would know what you are talking about. There are kind of 'unwritten' abbreviations used on this forum. It makes it hard if someone starts abbreviating a compound to something other than the one already used.

I suggest that if you are not looking for trouble, you may want to keep any thoughts about energetic materials completely and totally in theory, like many of the rest of our members:) . Especially when you are young (sounds like you are), you should be reading and researching as much information as you can. Lack of knowledge here can certainly be fatal:( .

Regards

[kingspaz]

spydamonkee, are you still around??
hope you're not dead...

[blindreeper]

Appreciate the reply 0EZ0, but I do read all the time. I check forums daily at least. To the KNO3AP question, what I meant was does the KNO3 detonate as I have heard it doesn't and I have heard it does. Like in APAN the AP makes the AN sensative enough to detonate no? Well I wanted to know if it was the same case with APKNO3? Does the KNO3 detonate or does it just make the AP more powerfull by giving it a better oxygen balance.

BTW, the thing about the 6 foot crater and the lawn, I was pissing myself laughing.

[0EZ0]

Well blindreeper, in regards to KNO3 detonating when applied to a KNO3/AP composite, I guess in a sense it is detonating. Although it will most certainly not detonate at the same speed of AP. The KNO3 is decomposing and giving up it's oxygen to support the AP's own decomposition. The rate at which the KNO3 decomposes releasing oxygen is comparable to the rate that AP detonates. So in a sense, yes it has the potential to decompose faster than the highest speed of deflagration. There are many debates about the line between deflagration and detonation. Mainly regarding at what speed does something stop deflagrating and start detonating.

The difference between APAN and KNO3/AP is that AN is an oxidiser and alone it has the ability to detonate. To my awareness, KNO3 alone can not detonate. This has probably been discussed somewhere here before. Nothing else really comes to mind about the probability of the KNO3 detonating when in contact with AP. Maybe someone else can offer a little more insight.

About the 6 foot crater, don't laugh too hard. It does happen:D.

[blindreeper]

Well thanks for the speedy replys boys. I think I'll try a 100g APAN (from ice packs) and then if thats not a big enough rush I'll go for the 200g cap sensative ANFO. Do you think a good detonator for cap sensative ANFO (just to ensure detonation) would be 5g HDN packed into a paper tube (home rolled with dextrin) and then 2g AP packed on that electrically ignited.

[Anthony]

I see no reason APPN wouldn't work. It seems to for everything else in the place of AN.

[blindreeper]

You say APPN would work but what about PNFO?