Eye in the Sky (AKA "Overwatch")

[nbk2000]

Was at this site( <a href="http://www.rctoys.com/draganflyerxpro.php" target="_blank">http://www.rctoys.com/draganflyerxpro.php</a> ) and was quite impressed with the machine.

What got my attention, besides the $5,000 price <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> , was the ability of this thing to manuever. Forwards, backwards, up, or down, don't matter. Even just hovering.

With a half mile range on the controls, plus an onboard videocamera (that tilts AND pans! :) ) and the ability to carry a 1 pound payload...I see some potential! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

While a job is going down, a person outside is flying overwatch with one of these. He'd be able to see piggies coming from MILES down the road. This gives the crimies inside the advantage of being able to flee before piggies arrive to stop them.

Also, that one pound payload could be useful. An MLRS bomblet that can penetrate 4" of steel, and has a letal radius of 4 meters, weighs less than a pound. Not that you'd likely have a bomblet, but you could build something similar to drop right on top of some bacon head if they got in the way. Death from above, and all that. :)

The ability to get full 360° coverage of a target area would allow you to construct 3D walkarounds to determine lines of sight, area and elevations, and other details that could be of use in planning a job. (RTPB: 7P's)

<small>[ November 15, 2002, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[Crow]

I had seen this awhile back when I was looking up RC planes with the ability to take photos for some sort of recon or spying work. Back then it did'nt have the video recording feature, the ability to fold, and I don't remember seeing a 1lb pay load then either.

I agree this does have great potential for spotting the po po from quite a long distance but it is a bit pricy and gives out a defening screech from its 4 motors.

Something like this could be made in your work shop for less than 1/4 that price but the quality would be shotty, and the use of gyros is something I would have to look up to have function correctly. They also give you some schematics, so its even easier to make your own.

I doubt any of the Forum members would buy something like this, but I will most likely buy a $300 RC and just take snap shots, or if possible find a very lightweight camera which sends video to a computer.

[nbk2000]

They have a much smaller one that can carry just a fixed videocamera, for less than a thousand.

It'd all depend on what you're doing. They also have some really inexpensive RC planes that could carry a camera.

I've also seen a kite/plane hybrid. It goes up like a kite, but is released and flown like a glider. Even has a space for carrying stuff (like cameras). This cost about $200. Fly it up, do some KAP, then release it to so a spiral 360 around the target before gliding it back to you for retrieval.

If the weather is co-operative, you could use a ramfoil kite to carry up a videocamera to provide overwatch, then simply cut it loose to save the time of trying to reel it in. At less than $300 per unit, it's cheap insurance.

Of course, in order for overwatch to work, you have to have someone capable of running it who you could trust not to bug out and leave you hanging when the coppers showed up.

LOP: "Never depend on a persons loyalty, rather their self-interest."

In this case, you've got their biography written on your body with permanent marker, just as they do yours (though yours is fake...RTPB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ). If the cops catch you, when they're examining your body (I'm assuming death prefered over capture), they'll have all the info they need to round up your crimies.

Thus, it's in overwatch's best interest to ensure that NOBODY gets caught, otherwise they're going down with you.

Or, you could be overwatch and not even be on the scene. If piggies approach, take out your crimies and roll out before they show up. (RTPB: Kill your crimies)

Your hands are clean since you weren't even seen at the scene (being on the other side of the river, or such), and anyone who could connect you is laying on a slab, talking only to God. :)

Which leads into another idea I've had, based on a columbian extortion technique from the '80s. But that's for the DVD, sorry.

[Arkangel]

Seems like the 1lb payload is going to be a big fuck off battery:

"How Long Does It Fly For?
It will fly about 5-6 minutes depending on flight conditions. The on board battery is a 14 cell, 3000mAh Nickel Metal Hydrate battery."

I would have thought that an RC helicopter would be far better. Get a 1/12 scale Apache, with it's own .22 minigun and Hellfirettes :D

<small>[ November 16, 2002, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[spydamonkee]

me has a R/c Chopper .. this one here &gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://www.littlerotors.com/articles/sceadu-201001/index.asp" target="_blank">http://www.littlerotors.com/articles/sceadu-201001/index.asp</a>

aint built it up yet though :/

[nbk2000]

The thing about the battery is that it's rechargable since the XP is intended as a recreational toy for rich people, thus economy is needed in the choice of a power supply. Not many people could/would fly it if it sucked up $100 worth of batteries every time it flew.

However, in a "combat" scenario, the cost of a much higher power density Li-ion one time use battery would be justified by the lighter weight and greater flight time than the rechargeable would allow for.

If a Li battery that cost you $100 allowed you to fly for 10 minutes, that'd be adequate. Figure two minutes prep/liftoff/FTO, 5 minutes loiter over objective, and two minutes return with one or two minutes "fudge" factor.

This would allow you to retain the payload capacity, while increasing flight time. I'd imagine that if you had nothing to drop, that the extra pound could be used by another battery, increasing flight time dramatically.

I don't foresee any realistic scenario that requires such a UAV that would require on site times of more than five minutes. Realisticly, you'd want your people off-site in under two minutes if it wasn't possible to previously cut off the victims ability to call for help.

RTPB: Lack of proper investment...

Practice flight skills on the rechargable, put in work with a one-time battery. :)

<small>[ November 16, 2002, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[xoo1246]

Remove

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: xoo1246 ]</small>

[X-Wulf]

Speaking of kites-come-gliders, why not use an RC glider?
On a hot day in an urban area, those things can fly on thermals for hours on end. The larger ones can carry quite a weight of batteries (for those all day flying situations), but seeing as we're not flying all day, substitute most of the batteries with whatever payload you see fit, be it for recon, decoy, whatever.
And considering that most of these things are damn cheap (only a body with a receiver and some servos) they're expendable too.
And a big plus is that they're silent.

[kingspaz]

don't inovate immitate (one of the RTPB's i believe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).
X-Wulf is right about gliders. the soviet U2 spy plane was nothing more than a glider with a small jet engine and that turned out to be VERY succesful. also the problem with a helicopter is getting someone to fly it! model aircraft aren't the sort of thing you can just pick up and do like an RC car or anything. i've never actually flown a RC helicopter but i've known people with them. they are a bitch to fly!
a glider on the other hand is a piece of piss and wouldn't require much training. also if in an urban area all you'd need to do is get one of those gliders with the folding prop on the front and a small electric motor in them. motor on whilst you chuck it off a building, get a little height then motor off and glide. the motor could also be used for backup if the glider got caught in a downdraft near a building.

<small>[ November 16, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[Anthony]

The only advantage electric has over ICE (that we care about) is noise, but if this thing screams anyway, might as well power it with ICE and get an hour of flight time out of it. For hostage situations, an extended flight would be handy for monitoring your perimiter.

IMO $5000 is a rip off, there's nothing to it, the hardest bit would be the computer controll, all you're paying for is the R&D costs.

But what advantage does this thing have over a regular helicopter design, which would be easier/cheaper to build and fly?

[nbk2000]

Actually, the XP is easier to fly compared to a regular RC copter because it has 3 gyroscopes for computerized flight stabilization. It's self-leveling, whereas a regular copter requires you to control roll/pitch/yaw all at the same time.

As for noise, electrics are much more quiter than an ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) for the same power. So while the XP makes a loud whine closeup, that sound "disappears" at distance, making it pretty much stealth.

They also have a helium filled flying disc that would make virtually NO noise, but you could only use it on dead calm days since it IS a ballon.

The advantage ICE has over electric is flight time. But, as stated, I don't see it being needed for more than a few minutes. If a person needed a long-term overwatch, then I'd say a ballon would be the way to go.

In an old popular mechanics article I read about polymeric foams as NLW, it also mentioned how you could make blobs of foam filled with helium that would float away that you could shoot with a rifle, but the blob would continue floating away because it wasnt' a ballon, but rather like a thousand little ballons stuck together.

Well...your overwatch ballon could be a simple mesh net filled with this polymeric helium foam. Piggies try shooting down your ballon... :p They'd then have to try shooting the string. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Good luck on that one. :D

[Fukineh]

What about a blimp? As long as its quiet and out of site so that it doesn't get shot down, It would be ultra quiet, fairly stable, be able to stay in the air for long periods of time, and of course much cheaper. You could also deflate if for easier carrying (It would of course have to be larger than the dragon flyer). Hook it up with a good night vision camera or if you want to go cheaper a crappy one with an infrared flashlight. As long as your rivals don't have night vision aimed at the sky and discover the source of the infrared light that is shining on them, you’ll be all set. Besides, blimps are just too cool to turn your back on. Even the word embodies the meaning of "cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet :D !” BLIMP!

Quote taken from <a href="http://www.realultimatepower.net/." target="_blank">http://www.realultimatepower.net/.</a>

Go to this crackass web sight to discover the roots of true insanity, and to laugh at a dumbass.

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: Fukineh ]</small>

[nbk2000]

Here we see a k3wL in its natural habit.

<a href="http://www.msu.edu/~couilla3/ninja/kidgarbage.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.msu.edu/~couilla3/ninja/kidgarbage.jpg</a>

Note how the male of the species is reared up in an agressive posture, in an attempt to scare off the intruder.

:p

Blimps would be good on windless days, but are static. Being able to move your point of view greatly increases the utility of overwatch, unless you're looking for ships over the horizon or such.

[BoB-]

If the heli were outfitted with a high powered rifle, I think we could see the ultimate teli-sniper.

No police sniper too high, no terrain too difficult, The heli-sniper could kill the mark while they're sitting at there desk on the 83rd floor of there high rise office building.

Or the heli could be equipped with a machine gun, it could then suddenly appear over the horizon and make pass after pass of full-auto .22 poison filled machinegun fire into crowds killing and disappearing in seconds.

If size isnt an issue then we can get into some serious mechanised protection;

<a href="http://www.internetage.com.au/taagc/taagcpics/skyhookpicb-2.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.internetage.com.au/taagc/taagcpics/skyhookpicb-2.jpg</a>

With heavy-duty high quality mufflers, this machine would be ideal. It could carry hundreds of pounds of electronics, and weapons. The limited R/C could be replaced by a twin cellphone based internet connection, enabling the hero to be several hundred miles away on his laptop.

The digital camera could be full-sized and the highest quality, it could even be equipped with thermal imaging, or night vision, and telescopic zoom.

The weapons could carry much more ammunition, along with small rocket battery's, and since our hero is far away from the scene it could even be equipped with chemical weapons.

Every pass would mean unbeleivable destruction, laying down .30 caliber armor-peircing machine gun fire, dropping cyanide grenades, launching rockets into buildings starting fires, and spraying pirahna fluid onto crowds.

Even when the beast is finally shot down it responds by releasing copius amounts of Cyanide gas.

It could also have several heli-snipers attached to it, when released, the CCTV signal could be received by the main unit and then converted and relayed to our hero, The machine could CY its own A.

[john_smith]

Sounds nice, but you'd probably need a stabilizing platform for the rifle.

[Anthony]

Here's a thought - to combat any form of heli-weapon, the cops would probably call for airforce help. Obviously, shooting down a normal sized heli, or gyro-copter would be easier for the fighter jets guarding America's skies. But, would an RC sized heli prove difficult for them? Small physical size, very small manouvering space required, small heat signature.

An RC chopper with the .22 mingun would be awesome! Imagine looking out of your office window in your CEO office and seeing this strange thing hovering out there... Then suddenly it lights up, spraying fire through the shattered glass, empty cartridges raining down onto people 50 floors below :D

Might get some bad turbulence around high rise buildings, especially with such a light craft.

Dudes's almost done with puberty, that's bragable. I'm off out to try and see some old man pop 19 boners! :D

[Arkangel]

Oooops, you found one of my favourite sites - the Ninja homepage.....

For a dumbass, he's not doing bad, with over 6 million hits.... I don't actually believe it's a kid, or if it is, he's a funny, smart one. The site's just a piss take, even the hate mail - did you see the fake CNN articles?

Anyway, does anyone remember the siege in the Church of the Nativity a few months ago?? The IDF used a motorised blimp to monitor what was going on in the church. The weakness of their system was the fact that there could only be a few compartents in that sort of thing - use the bubbles described by NBK inside something like that and you have a pretty surviveable machine.

BUT, anything like this is going to be difficult to use in any kind of high rise city, even larger aircraft have to be really careful, especially on warm days, when cities create a lot of thermals.

If the dragonflyer has gyro stabilisation, how come that hasn't been fitted to a model helicopter yet? That would make a lot more sense to me.

[nbk2000]

Don't trust hit counters. They can be started at any number desired.

With the draganflyer, all the rotational torques are on the same horizontal plane.

Whereas, with a regular heli, it's on two, horizontial [lift rotor], and vertical [tail rotor].

I'd think it neigh impossible to shot down an RC heli with a missle or any kind of aerial weapon. Simply because the things are so tiny, have virtually no heat emission (being electric), and also being made of carbon fiber composite (radar invisible)

It could be safely assumed that all cellular and normal R/C freqencies are jammed in the immediate area of any world leaders public appearence, precisely to protect against such attacks.

However, with a line of sight, and suitable electronics, I could envision a full duplex communications link using lasers. Light is limited only by your visibility and obstructions. Given how your weapon is high in the sky, it's LOS is very long and clear. :)

Defense against an R/C weapon could be as simple as some professional skeet gunners with shotguns, or as complex as a PHALANX type weapon on a mobile platform with millimetric radar.

If a little UAV where to be carrying an EFP, then it could simply be fired (and destroyed) when aligned with the target from a distance of 50 yards or more. This depends on accurate construction of the charge and testing, but could be done. Such a weapon would defeat any body armor, pop up shield, barrier glass, or bodyguard bodies that may get in the way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

GPS is cheap nowadays. A large ballon could be used to loft a bomb up to drift over the target area from miles away. Once in the general proximity of the target, the bomb is released. It falls to earth, being guided by GPS. Once at a suitable altitude, it opens, dispensing a cluster bomblet payload to saturate the target zone and to account for any inherent inaccuracies in the system.

Even if (somehow) shot down, the bomblets would still likely be scattered over a populated area, causing havoc. A win-win either way. :D

[Ctrl_C]

what about modifying one of those tiny RC engines to hook up to a small (you can get pretty tiny ones) generator to power the thing. Whole thing might weigh a few ounces w/ fuel. Feasible?

[Fukineh]

The original dragon flyer can be purchased for a fraction of the price of the new pro version. It is obviosly not as good though- less manouverable and stable, I don't think it can carry as much of a payload, and it probably has less power, range, and flying time.

[Anthony]

Ctrl_c's idea is a good one and would keep the batteries charged. If the engine was insulated (overheating problems, I know) so that the exhaust was the only thing that would give a heat signiture, then the output of the generator could be shorted (in flight) to stall the engine, if it's heat sig was about to become a problem. The generator could then be spun up from battery power to restart the engine.

I'm not sure of the sensitivity of heat seaking ATA weapons, would your average RC engine likely be a problem?

Skeet shooters would be a problem, but staying at 100yds should render them moot. Or drop some bomblets in their vicinity, or lay down some fire from the minigun - much more fun :) I sure as hell would risk my life trying to destroy a model aircraft.

[A-BOMB]

Wouldn't it be easier to just power it by gas in stead of the extra weight of a generator and batteries.

[Anthony]

It'd a lot harder to preciesely control the speed of four IC engines than 4 electric motors.

[vir sapit qui pauca loquitur]

Has anyone here seen scrap-heap challenge (or scrap wars if you happen to be a yank) as they had an episode that was SO much like this, two teams (as normal) had to build an airborne bomber (able to carry and drop one bomblet that weighed in at about 3/4 kg)
one team built (out of pure scrap i remind you!) a working r/c airplane that dropped the bomb a la' stuker style (refering to the german stuker dive-bomber) but hit rocks and self-destructed. The other team built a blimp, with a few car fans for guidance (unfortunatly the wind was at about 10/15 mph and so it crapped out)

the blimp was a load of cat scrotum, but the dive-bomber was real class :D i can imagine a few in flying in formation, controlled by one or two people, delivering 20kg of hi-ex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> (if five were built with 4 kg load) but as WE have access to more professional equipment (i.e. not scrap) i can imagine that a r/c plane in the form of a B-52 with multiple bomblets could be fabricated,

scorched earth rules! :D

[Deceiver]

here's an idea make a rather large rocket and instead of a parachute flopping out the plane/glider comes out at the peak height, which whould be around 2-300 ft and then it slowly spirals back to the ground all the while transmitting video of the surrounding area(s) or crashes into a building if you have to scrap your objectives. also get a few weather balloons on 170ft tethers with wireless cameras on them worst comes to worst cut the tether. and you out maybe $200 depending on the quality of camera you choose to put on them

[BoB-]

They make model rockets that release gliders, the problem with them is obvious, the huge cloud of smoke, the noise. We're going for something more discreet here.

I know it couldnt hover, or take clear photos, but for destruction purposes a model bomber would be very effective. Its passes could be alot quicker, making it more difficult to shoot down, and it could use more powerful pulse-jet liquid rocket engines making its range alot bigger.

[nbk2000]

With technology making cameras ever cheaper and lighter, I've got an idea in mind for the future.

You know those toys were you shot this dart-like object into the air with a slingshot, and it spins down like a helicopter?

Well, with a tiny camera in the nose, and the things being only a few dollars each, you could carry a handful of them, and shoot them over a house (or other single story building) to see what was waiting on the other side or on the roof.

Pick them up as you go and you could keep your path well covered and observed.

A rocket launched glider would be useful in a highly dynamic situation where you don't have time to set up and launch something more complex. I could see a car chase where you had to know whether there's any cops blocking the road ahead. They'd already be on your ass, so it doesn't matter if they see a rocket launching into the sky. Might even distract them since they don't know what the hell it's for.

In rural areas where there's no wires crossing the road overhead, you could tow a kite to high altitude. That would allow you to see for many miles in all directions. You could even use it to spot a surveillance helicopter flying at a distance. Thanks to electronic advances, your camera can have pan/tilt/zoom, plus day/night/thermal...if you can afford it.

I've seen radars for ships selling for a few thousand dollars. I know they're aimed towards the water, but what if you inverted them? Would they then be able to detect low flying aircraft?

[ultimate wet dream]

A van with an air-surveillance radar to detect low flying piggie choppers. TV guided SAM can then be launched from built in concealed launcher to engage the flying pork, removing the threat. :D

[/ultimate wet dream]

I pray to Satan every day to win a huge lottery prize. Then my Hellish reign will begin and the Antichrist released! MUWAHAHAHA! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D

[Flake2m]

NBK you sometimes have some very weird fantasies :D .

Th blimp idea is a really good idea though the main problem with them is that they aren't to good in bad weather.

I personally would go for an RC plane if I needed overwatch and had a large area. RC planes are fast enough to be difficult to hit small enough to be difficult to notice. Some of the larger models can also carry decent payloads. Some RC planes also have flight times of 20 mins+ on a tank of fuel.

Blimps are good if you want all day observation. You simply launch it with a camera attached and you can monitor your surroundings all day.

RC planes are more for patroling an area, you also need direct LOS (line Of Sight) to fly them properly. I suppose if you attached a camera to the nose aswell as an alttimeter you could fly them without LOS. RC planes also always need someone controlling them. I have not yet known of a realitively cheap auto pilot system.

RC planes are fairly easy to fly compared to helicopters, the only really difficult part is landing them.

Finally, If you are setting up some "business" in an open area (park, oval etc). If one of your associates is flying an RC planes around, you can always tell your client that the RC plane isn't yours but some kid is flying one. If you have a blimp in the air, your client might get a bit nervous and you also wont have a good excuse to deny it is yours.

[nbk2000]

The military uses "aerostats", MIL-SPEAK for "balloon on a tether", for perimeter security/C3/surveillance/etc.

But that's all so terribly passive, I think.

Why not stick a stabilized gun platform underneath the balloon and use that to not only watch people, but kill them as well?

A .50 barrett would be liftable by a small blimp-style balloon, and would be able to engage anything lighter than an MBT at over 2KM. Might as well toss in some bomblet dispensers while we're at it.

Go even further...use a rigid body balloon with a simple jet engine, mounting the .50, incorporate in a day/night targeting system using thermal imaging/NVD, and you'd be good to go.

Not only would you be free of the tether, but you could use the "Aerosault" (aero-assualt :D) as your own close ground support firing platform, since it could manuever around at speeds faster than anything on the ground could run away from it.

Kinda' like a poor-mans SPECTRE gunship, only controllable by one person. ;)

[pyromaniac_guy]

as a bit of an update to this thread, look at the website mentioned in the OP. the company now offers a knock off of the predator UAV, with electric power of up to 4 hrs endurance (at 50 knots) and can be bought complete with wireless video and autopilot packages that will make the plane take off and land on it's own... no need any longer to have someone know how to fly an RC craft, just loft the drone 20 miles away from wherever you need survalance, use a few watt amplifier to make the 900 mhz video transmitter a bit better than line of sight, and presto, fully autonomous eye in the sky...

if a pound of payload onthe predator isnt enough for you, check out http://intellitechmicrosystems.com/vp.htm
this off the shelf UAV is good for 17 lbs of payload...

also, someone mentioned using a marine radar to look for police helicopters. marine radars dont point at the water, they point at the horizon just like any other radar set. the problem is that they dont look at a very high angle over the horizon so you could only use it for detecting areil targets that were far away from you. i know marine radar can see things as small as channel markers, so they should see a helicopter, however a helicopter moves prety quick, so finding it on such a radar set might be, at best, difficult.

[xperk]

A Barrett would be hard to use for a second shot as the recoil would very likely send the ballon swinging wildly.

Perhaps a lower calibre with higher rate of fire could be more controllable as the recoil would appear more graduatelly, the recoil could then be countered with a high-speed propellar attached to the stock to counter the swings.

The AM 180 was tried marketed for third world countries in its quad configuration. The high rate of fire would be benefitial when directing it remotely, as the spray could be 'walked' to the target.

In the case of a blimb or rc the quad would be to heavy but a single would still do nicely.

http://www.american180.com/history/index.html

[Makdaam]

A blimp/baloon is completely out of question at low altitudes... a delta/flying wing moto-glider (with a small triple phase motor and light Li-Poly rechargables) would allow a 2-3hour flight (first get it as high as possible using the motor then use thermals to keep it up) before the RC equippement batteries run out...

And with R/C planes the only limit is weight (you can fly things up to 35kg without a license) and a 3x1,5m delta flyer can lift enough video cameras :P

If you want to mount a weapon, try some fun-flys (fast acrobatic planes with IC engines) they are always overpowered (most of them can perform a vertical take-off is positioned right) so lifting a small gun shouldn't be a problem, but it wouldn't be too accurate :\ so maybe some chemical/ignition bomblets instead?

[Serria]

There is always the cheap route for your airframe, granted the radio, servos and engine is going to cost more, but the airframe itself can be built for around $30.00, if you mostly salvaged plastic.

This site has several plans for various aircraft, most of them take less than a day to build and have the advantage of being very cheap so, if/when it get's destroyed, nobody loses any sleep about it.

http://www.spadtothebone.com/freeplans.htm

I'm currently working on building the Spad Extra to carry a video camera around my house.

[Skean Dhu]

There is also the ever popular Zagnutz airframe made from 3mm depron/fan-fold/blue-core foam.
http://home1.gte.net/texhills/index.html

For additional range it is possible to use the HAM frequencies to control your aircraft and transmit video back to you. Although it is ilegal to do so without proper FCC licensing, which I know anyone here who would use HAM frequencies would have their HAM license with them while operationg their aircraft.

[nbk2000]

A site that details construction of home-brew UAV's that have photographic and video capabilities, as well as GPS and auto-pilots made from LEGO mindstorm bricks. :)
http://diydrones.com/

Some more specific links:
http://diydrones.com/profiles/blog/show?id=705844%3ABlogPost%3A788

Pano-stitching of pictures from said UAV's:
http://www.thelongtail.com/the_long_tail/2007/09/uav-image-proce.html

[monkeyboy]

Thanks for resurrecting this thread, I just saw some stuff along these lines & was getting ready to make a new thread (Search engine? What search engine?:o)...

So here:
http://www.uavp.de/index.php/de/
Open Source Quadro Copter
http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/05/opensourcequadrocopter_op.html
Synopsis on Make

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJXv-Qm4ZUc
Gyro-stabilized camera mount

http://www.rc-cam.com/rc-cam3a.htm
RC-CAM3 PROJECT

http://www.tarbox.org/helicontrol.html
building a UAV

http://www.lylechamberlain.com/indoorcollisionavoidanceandnavigation
Indoor Collision Avoidance and Navigation

http://www.hackaday.com/2007/08/10/cccamp-2007-quad-copters/
CCCamp 2007: Quad-copters

[Toggle]

There is always the cheap route for your airframe,...

Depending on your requirements you could go for a really cheap 'eye in the sky'. A digital camera with a timer attached to a box kite. I have heard of people looking for the foundations of long-lost buildings this way. This works best when the sun is low in the sky.

Replace the digital camera with a RC controlled TV camera and you'd have a very discrete surveillance system. The paparazzi would love something like this.
At least until the wind dies :)

[Tinton]

This plane is definitly not worth it. $2,000? A few minutes of flight time? A pound of Cargo? Not only that, but if this is the Dragonfly brand I am familiar with, this is merely a toy. A little more ruggedly built, and a little less toy-like, and this would be perfect for quite a bit of stuff...

I don't think remote controlled helicopters should be shot down so quickly (hur hur), many can fly in strong winds, with large payloads, and for long periods of time.

.90 size helicopters are amazing. They can carry about 10 pounds, fly for around a half hour, faster than 60 miles an hour, and at a distance of about 2 miles from the operator. Seriously, just youtube these things. You can add anything you want, 10 pounds it quite a bit of cargo. I can think of a few things that weigh less than ten pounds ;)

Yet, these are hard to master; and your going to want a master. But I'm sure some RC helicopter lovers would graciously fly your 'copter for free.

But, these things are loud, big, and somewhat expensive.... But then again, that might not be a bad thing. You could use it as a last resort weapon. .30 sized helicopters can remove fingers and put 1" gashes into car doors. Imagine what a .90 sized helicopter could do.

EDIT: I just watched a video of a master flying a .90. It is absolutly amazing. It darts around just like a dragonfly(insect), and can accelerate in no time. It goes from hovering; to 50 yards away, to hovering again in less than 5 seconds. Imagine being the police confronted with such a device? What are they going to do? Fire up into the air at something that moves faster than a clay bird in trap shooting? Are they going to bring out stingers and try to lock onto its heat signal? I'm pretty sure stingers are more expensive than these helicopters....

[nbk2000]

This plane is definitly not worth it.

You need to be more specific, as many 'planes' have been discussed.

And as for large R/C helicopters being dangerous:

http://www.combatreform.com/defrev/NRI_Weaponized_AutoCopter_Explorer_Gunship_2.jpg (http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1039)

2x 12-gauge full-auto shotguns, firing grenade slugs. :D

[Jacks Complete]

The smaller options, surely, in the USA, the police would simply take it down with a shotgun? In the UK, they'd have no clue what to do. CS gas it? I don't think so!

The only effective option they would have would be to get really close then use an air tazer, hoping that the wires would tangle the rotor(s), or, perhaps, throw a net or whatever rope they have at it. Easily avoided by being more than 30 yards away, unless they get a lucky shot throwing something like a tennis ball.

In an urban setting they would never get permission (in the UK) to arm up and start shooting at it. Even in the countryside they wouldn't, unless you were killing people left and right. Of course, they would try to target the operator...

[anonymous411]

Daydreaming aloud here, but I wonder what could be done with a cheap, backdoored, internet-enabled camera phone. If you could write some software that would allow you to fully view the phone remotely, you could collect data anywhere in real-time. Very light and disposable, perfect! The phone memory would pose a limitation, but that can be worked around.

I 'm thinking the Virgin Mobile Kyocera cyclops ($99 prepaid) might be a good candidate here, though I don't know if it's as hackable as something like a Razr v3. I'll have a superfluous Razr to experiment with in a few days...if I get anywhere with this, I'll keep you posted.

[Unsunghero]

Perhaps you could just stream it live instead of using up all the phones memory. Essentially what it does is use the memory required to "buffer", then deletes it from the memory, similar to watching a movie on youtube but..piece by piece..

[NoltaiR]

I think they were just regular shotgun shells

[image="http://www.combatreform.com/defrev/NRI_Weaponized_AutoCopter_Explorer_Gunship_8.jpg"]

[monkeyboy]

... internet-enabled camera phone. If you could write some software that would allow you to fully view the phone remotely...
Virgin Mobile Kyocera cyclops... as hackable as something like a Razr v3.

My phone runs Windows...
Windows mobile, that is. Very easy to hack. Has a registry, just like the big boys. Relatively straightforward to install & run a plethora of applications on it. I recently came across a spectrum analyzer and a sonar program for it, neat.

I see Windows mobile phones quite cheap on ebay. Sometimes referred to as a "smart" phone. Probably ought to try & get at least WM 5.0 or above.

[nbk2000]

A very capable microUAV, for either £15K or £50K (couldn't tell for sure, accent so thick), but that was from a video about a system designed for fire/rescue, complete with thermal imager and virtual headset.


For lowest weight and highest robustness we have designed the drone completely in carbon fiber reinforced plastics. This carbon mono frame is also a perfect shield against electromagnetic interferences.

Our outstanding AAHRS (Altitude and Attitude and Heading Reference System) uses the following sensortypes: Accelerometers, Gyroscopes, Magnetometer, Airpressure, Humidity, Temperature.

By means of our synchronized, brushless direct drives (transmissionless) the noise level is very low (rpm < 2000, noise < 63dBA @3m). These propulsions recover from stall and overload conditions even at flight time.

The optional GPS provides position hold and autonomous waypoint navigation.

Our onboard flight recorder (microSD card) permits a post-flight analysis in real-time.

With our downlink decoder we provide all important data at the base station (battery state, altitude, attitude, position, flighttime...).
For best pilot support we have implemented a talking audio response system (no need to look at a display).

Security features prevent from crashing - autonomous landing on low battery or missing radio signal.

Depending on payload, temperature and wind the vehicle achieves up to 20 minutes of flight time.


http://www.microdrones.com/md4-200.html

http://www.microdrones.com/md4-200/md4-200_800.gif

[Bugger]

News of relevance here:
Daily Express (UK), Wednesday 14th November 2007:
The UK's first police "spy drone" has taken to the skies.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/view/7613

I wonder if it has anything to do with the whimsical saying "if only Pigs could fly"!

[megalomania]

Here is the poor mans version of the MicroUAV nbk2000 posted, the DraganFlyer V Ti...
For a mere $1000 with the video camera, or $800 without, this thing is a self stabilizing r/c helicopter.

No previous R/C experience? No problem. If you lose orientation while flying the Draganflyer V Ti outdoors, simply release the right stick and its infrared stabilizers will automatically restore a stable hover with half a second! Thermal Intelligence eliminates most of the dangers and provides both safety and fun while training and flying. If you run low on batteries, the innovative electronic control system prevents battery over-discharge by limiting available power. Lose transmitter signal? It will descend safely and autonomously outdoors. Incorporated into each Draganflyer V Ti's patented control board are four infrared heat sensors and three state-of-the-art piezo gyros which provide automatic self-leveling for an effortless outdoor piloting experience. Sound incredible? It is.

Is it fragile? Hardly. The Draganfly V Ti's durability is unmatched by conventional RC helicopters. The Draganfly's body is virtually indestructible due to its tough carbon-fiber and high-impact nylon construction. How high and fact will it go? It flies up to 30mph and as high as you can see (at 200ft the helicopter is a dot in the sky) even though the radio range is approximately 1/2 a mile. The Draganflyer V Ti can lift 4 ounces, effortlessly and also uses durable Nylon Injected rotors that are efficient, safe and inexpensive to replace. The Draganflyer's sophisticated control board, its minimal number of parts, and lessened repair costs ensure a heavier wallet and a happier R/C helicopter pilot.

http://www.reallycooltoys.com/images/df/dfkit.gif http://www.reallycooltoys.com/images/df/dfflight.gif http://www.reallycooltoys.com/images/df/dfplate.gif

http://www.reallycooltoys.com/toys/i3info.html

[Charles Owlen Picket]

This brings voyeurism to whole new levels (pun intended). Watch for a whole new genre' of pictures flooding the internet. On a more serious note, I have seen this arena expand from the UK in particular! Those folks have a love of the "Eye-In-The-Sky" type thing, it seems....

[Mr Science]

Responding to NBK's post, I emailed the company asking for a quote, and got the following:
Good Day Mr *****,

Thank you for your Microdrone inquiry. Microdrone was initially developed for military, police and commercial activities. It’s reliability, ease of flight and superior electronics sets it apart from remote control models or toys that may have some modifications to support basic video or photography.

A reference price for a Microdrone outfitted for basic photography is approximately $28,000 Canadian (excluding delivery, taxes/fees, additional options or training). The Microdrone basic photography kit contains:

md4-200 microdrone ready to fly kit
GPS position hold
video transmitter and mobile video receiver/goggles
10mp still photography camera (with video downlink)
Pelican carrying caseMaybe it is just me, but I cannot understand why it costs so much. Or at least considering their profit as well, what is the bulk of the cost of the device (which component(s) are priciest).

Edit: 28,000.00 CAD = 28,520.50 USD

[Kaydon]

There's nothing in that list that would even come close to $28,000. It must be a typo. It'd better be, or they are insane. What's 28k in USD? Can't be less than 20. Either way, that's still outrageous.

I suspect the video transmitter would be the most expensive piece of equipment, maybe there are modifications to the motor to carry the load? Things are so lightweight though, there can't be much need for a lot of modification, stronger gears.

You can get a 10 MP camera for a few hundred bucks, cheaper if you look around - or buy second hand. If you look at the picture, the camera looks like something you'd likely pick up at your local Staples or some such, and it probably is and painted black.

Carrying case? Pft, you can make that yourself.

20 Minutes of flight time doesn't seem like all that much, but for quick glances at situations or whatever your goal it's probably plenty.

If only we could get our hands on a Predator UAV :)

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs_uav/predator.jpg

[monkeyboy]

For the electronically inclined, a remote controlled camera from a cell phone:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-remote-controlled-camera-from-a-cellphone!/?ALLSTEPS

[monkeyboy]

Yeah, I know I was the last one to post here 6 months ago. The technology just keeps getting better, though.
Any of you seen this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V2CBGnU6qU

DelFly II weights ready to fly, with onboard camera, 16.07g. The camera is not only used for observation purposes, but also as input for the image analysis software. The images are transmitted to the ground station. The ground station determines the rotational velocity of the DelFly II based upon the images, compares it with the input of the pilot, and sends the steering signals back to the DelFly II, which deflects it's rudder and elevator according the received inputs. This enables an inexperienced pilot to fly the DelFly II.

http://www.delfly.nl/index.php?site=DII&menu=home&lang=en