Anti-Piggy Door Ram Stopper

[nbk2000]

I was wandering the aisles of Wally-Mart when I saw this:
http://www.protekdoor.com/Img01.jpg

At their website www.protekdoor.com (http://www.protekdoor.com) they have a video showing piggies kicking a door and using one of their rams on it, without success.

Of course, much testing would be nessecary to verify these claims, but it does lead to some interesting ideas.

I would install 2 of them, top and bottom, using carrige bolts inserted into the door, instead of relying on the obvious target of the door knob. Plus a full length door hinge instead of the usual two or three. Oh, and a solid wood or steel door instead of the usual hollow core.

They would eventually catch on and stick something in the gap to keep the door open and then cut through the elastic, but that would take time. Time they don't have since AP bullets should be flying through the walls by then.

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"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

Go here (http://members.nbci.com/angelo_444/dload.html) to download the NBK2000 website PDF.

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 videos.

[Predator]

Better still, how about that swat-stopper thing I drew a while back.. it's basically a mortar in place of the door stop. The swat/police kick in the door and boom http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif

[Pyroboy]

I think it would take a lot of balls to set something like that SWAT stop up. Because if you fuck a few cops up and the rest catch you they'll fuck you up!

[Heavy Recoil]

I had an idea of the door would open into a L shaped hall. they break the door at the top, and rush in, turn the corner, kick the door at the bottom, and boom. not a bomb, which may kill you, but a pnematic cannon with a barrel filled with petrol or another vaper flamible liquid, and a way to ignight it. burns would be horrorble, but all the air is burned away,too. the true door is under the welcome mat, so if they are watching you,you will go thru that entry. you would escape thru a tunnel to an apartment/sewer/be creative, pushing a button that activates the ammona/clorine/be creative posion gas generators, or an explosive or incendeary device, its an idea

[richl261]

yeah, its a good idea if they dont have the door frame widener tool...

[Anthony]

Looks like a good idea, you could but a metalic sheath over the rubber to stop it being cut.

I thought the police had started using those hydraulic door openers now? They spread to grip/spread the frame then a forward facing ram pushes against the door.

Only way to beat one of those would be to simply make your door frame a shallow angle.

[nbk2000]

The hydra-force door jamb spreader wrks by forcing the jamb far enough away from the door that the lock bolts can swing clear of it.

But that wouldn't work with this because the straps would just get even tighter, and they're not in the center, rather at the top and bottom of the door, where the frame is strongest.

Also, the SWAT stopper wouldn't work if they shot out or rammed the hinges as they sometimes do, because it wouldn't then be hit by the door. That's why you need a full length door hinge, to render that tactic impossible.

The hallway idea, would you be thinking of something like this?
http://server3001.freeyellow.com/nbk2000/killzonetop.GIF
------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

Go here (http://members.nbci.com/angelo_444/dload.html) to download the NBK2000 website PDF.

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 videos.

[This message has been edited by nbk2000 (edited July 29, 2001).]

[PYRO500]

someone who is good with a hooligan tool (a forced entry tool often used by firemen) will probably just rip off the thing if not the bolts that hold it in the wall stud first.

[Machiavelli]

Very cute how some here want to defend themselves against these annoying day-to-day swat raids.
Unfortunately, even if you can put some bullets in a trooper or one or two run into your swat stopper, what have you won?
Oh yes, you've defended your little castle and you've frightened them away.

So swat won't come near you.
They'll wait outside.
They have unlimited supplies of water, food, electricity, ammo, information, ...
You don't
You'll give up sooner or later.

So anyone here thinking about static defense, forget it.

The protekdoor might buy you some time to burn documents, throw some cds in the microwave and destroy some evidence.
If you have taken preparations for this event this might suffice to clean your area.
If you've taken good flight preparations this might also be the moment for it.

The swat stopper and and the hallway wil probably get you booked as DOA. Especially US swats (or swats in other repressive regimes) have the tendency to consist of very unscrupulous operators, if you shoot at them with AP bullets, they'll lob a few grenades vaguely in your direction and collect the remains as evidence.
If you don't belive my words you might want to ask members of MOVE. Their compound was bombed with thermite, women and children who ran outside were machinegunned down by philadelphia police.
The red stripes on the flag were always painted with blood.

If swat comes, you have to go, simple as that. Try to create chaos and diversion so you can escape.

-They're not the only ones who have access to flashbangs and smoke bombs.
-Radios often don't work that good in buildings. Especially if someone tries to jam them. No need to get sophisticated, a motor with worn out coal brushes or jacobs ladder driven by a cheap HV transformator and rigged up to an antenna should be enough.
-If someone is wearing a fully propped up assault vest, weapons, body armor and a dumb looking helmet he/she/it is a dangerous opponent in close combat. And no match for you when it comes to running. The feet might be mightier than the fist
-See them coming. Swat doesn't just arrive on the scene and storm the building. They need surveillance and reconnaisance, especially when it comes to raids. Maybe you or your friends will notice something uncommon in your area. Maybe you've looked at your area before in terms of "where could I suddenly disappear, where can I hide out for a short while?". Your options increase a lot if you're good at nondestructive entry.
Even flight tunnels have worked from time to time.


Maybe some of you want to stay in place to fight like real men (=die like dumbasses) and take some troopers with them.
Consider that it might be more fun to shoot them in the back than to face them upstraight.

[mark]

I personaly think this whole thing is an asinine idea. Your fucked if you start slainng swat teams. Your best defense would be having confetti falling from the sealing like a supermarket givaway. Youll look like a lunatic, not a mad man.

Im personalynot expecting the swat team any time soon. Hydrogen balloons and fire crackers usualy dont warrent a raid.

[Anthony]

"Hydrogen balloons and fire crackers usualy dont warrent a raid."

They can!

[mark]

Im probobly last on the feds list.

[Machiavelli]

Maybe at the moment. But remember, your living in the USA, the country whose army and police trained forces in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Honduras, Guetemala, Peru, Laos, Israel, Indonesia, Columbia, Miami, Panama, etc (it's difficult to remember every country on the list) to rape, torture, slaughter and rob civilians.
So why shouldn't they do it at home?

So just stay quiet, say yes to everything, don't question anything and try not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Try not write anything critical. Using your constitutional rights too much might be bad for your health.

[mark]

Quote:
So why shouldn't they do it at home?

Because home is a rich white comunity!

[Machiavelli]

So it's safe for rich white people.
This hasn't stopped municipal police departments to cooperate with the FBI on the assasinations of black panther leaders, it didn't help to provide safety for poor blacks whose homes and churches got bombed by fascists whose organizations were staffed from top to the very bottom with police informers, it didn't keep the CIA from pumping crack into the gettoes, it didn't help the crispy Davidians and it won't help the white underclass when racism isn't enough of a pressure release anymore and they'll start doing something about real problems.
And start to step on rich and powerful toes.
If you take a look at American history you'll see that you need to give people just a little bit of money, power or at least the illusion of it, add to that some simple ideologies and propaganda and they'll volunteer to shoot at their fellow citizens.

[-Onthefringe-]

a not too old news story (quoting from memory here)"

A recent drug house raid was foiled by an innovative entry hall design, which consisted of a concrete block wall build to create a vestibule over the main entrance (the side door was completely walled in). The block wall was built so closely to the main door that it could not open fully, leaving a gap of only 14" when it was open. The dealer using this house was a thin black male capable of squeezing into the gap. when the police did raid the house it took them some time to bash the door open (it was a solid core steel door). Once open they were not able to squeeze any of their fat asses through the gap (my editorial comment), eventually relying on an suv and cable to pull the door completely from the frame. Some cops still couldn't fit through the gap between the wall and the block wall, instead climbing through a window once the bars were removed from them (by the same hook/suv) By the time this was completed and they gained entrance, a lone black male, the only occupant, sat nude in the middle of the living room. All signs of drug activity had been obliterated. His clothes were dumped into the washing machine to remove any trace of drugs.

Things the cops did wrong:
Drugs were never kept in the house, but were delivered to the rear from another home - they failed to notice this.
Drugs were sold to buyers thru the main steel reinforced door by a lone seller, with no incriminating evidence left in the residence beyond the initial sale (money wes removed the same route the drugs came in).
Police never installed a sewer trap prior to the raid - soe drugs may have been flushed while the police dealt with the door.
Booby trapped door provided the perp ample time to remove even the faintest traces of drug activity.
Home was abandoned. The dealers were actually maintaining it and paying the property taxes. And in this neighborhood neighbors don't ask questions.

May not help you if you're maintaining a chem lab in your house, but does offer some lessons here. No evidnece - no charges.

[Mick]

LOL...just readin that "protek door" thing

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Designed by B-2 Stealth engineer
</font>

does that mean when someone tries to kick in your door, the door will go into stealth mode, and bomb the intruder?

http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Machiavelli]

Maybe it means that it's designed in a way that an attacker ramming the door won't notice it.

[AR-15 Man]

Hell just whatever get in SWATs way and makes them nervous. Even little things like marbles and snap and pops on the floor will break there concentrion. That may sound KEWL but remember these pycho freaks are hyped up adrenline junkies. If one slips or something pops on the floor all hell will break lose. Then if you put tight obstcales to get in there way. Also thick curtains in the hallway will hurt there ablity to throw flash bangs. If you are good at sewing sew some elastic in the curtain to bounce it back and you would be able to use a thiner see though curtain. Plus unlike booby traps this stuff is legal atleast where I live. Just think if you were running through a house watching everything what would make your life miserable. Also if you live in the Ghetto I here one of the worst things to a SWAT officers is if they see toys in the yard because the don't wanna blow away any children.

[Maddoc]

For some good views of cop tactics just watch the "COPS - Too Hot for TV" videos, I have all of them and I'll make some MPG clips up and post them when I get back from vacation in 3 weeks.

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Whoa, where my fingers?

[Anthony]

"Designed by B-2 Stealth engineer"

Goes from making super high tech military war machines to designing over-sized elastic bands... Maybe it was his fault you can see stealth bombers in the rainhttp://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif

[BoB-]

AR-15 man, Its been rumored that the Waco disaster was caused by a Federal Agent accidently shooting himself in the leg. Snap-pops might make itchy trigger fingers.

[AR-15 Man]

That is the whole point. Because you could prove they started shooting first. And you need to make these bastards work. You need to jump their nerves as much as you can. That will give you such an advantage. Remember most SWAT guys don't have a lot of stress training like real anti-terriost teams. And if the SWAT team leader has smarts and they start stepping on stuff like that he is more than likely to call the mission off. But if he is a dumbass hotshit he will go on and get a lot of his men killed. Also this may sound KEWL again but you know those billy bass things that sing. Since they move and you had them on the wall in a lowlight situation that would make a SWAT guy even more stressed out. And if you have hard wood floors add about a cm of polish to make them slip. I know that makes it sound like home alone bullshit but you whole purpose is to delay and stress these guys out. Those party flasher if you could make those automated would cause a lot of stress in your favor to these guys. Just do everything you can to fuck with these guys you will win. If they get the element of suprise you will lose. And if you get in a stand off just surrender after you destoryed all the evidence.

[AmonDin]

Some simple rules:

Don't have a gun in the house you can't account for with the proper permits and liscenses.

Don't have drugs in the house, or if you do, keep them near a bathroom so you can flush it all if nescessary.

Obstruct all entrances to your house in any way you can. Swat teams don't just come in through the front door, they come in through all of the doors, windows too.

Don't shoot the police unless you plan on dying horribly.

Have several escape routes ready, and check them for signs of tampering or surveillence regularly.

Always destroy evidence first, THEN concentrate on escape, not the other way around.

Always avoid arrest if you can, this may sound cliche: But they do have ways of making you talk, they are varied and brutal.

If you have no way of escape, surrender as soon as you have destroyed the evidence. Then get a lawyer on the horn as soon as you possibly can. Have him/her with you at all times. They won't try anything wholly illegal (torture) with a witness hanging around.

Time is always key, delay as much as you can.

I'm absolutly sure these have been written before, so don't bitch at me for being unoriginal. If it works, use it. Note that most of this is contingent on you owning your own place, unless you don't mind pissing off your landlord. It's also pretty frickin hard for a minor to get a gun (outside of the ghetto) in the first place, so don't worry about it..... umm, I can't think of a witty and fun way to close this out.... go sig!

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"When all else fails, just light their things on fire, people hate that..." - Fred

[AR-15 Man]

You are right you shouldn't try to shoot the police....oh yea you are wrong a minor can own any weapon as long as it isn't NFA. Well, in the US. A Minor can legally buy a rifle or shotgun in a private sale and a handgun can a be a gift. But very few private sellers would sell to a minor without a parent. Oh yea a minor can't buy an assualt weapon without parental consent and when you have it you must either be target shooting or using it in the coarse of hunting or your work at a farm. Sometimes people watch movies to much and think those are the laws. But remeber to get a lawyer fast. The BATF has tried to say loose muffler pipe and washer in people's garages even though they were seprate and not attempt to weld them together as "silencer in contrution"

[Foodos]

Since this thread is based on the swat coming after you (basically) if you were preparing for an all out assault, ie: you are going to kill them all, or you want to cause damage as you run, then you could use some claymores.

Set up the claymore in the Makeshift arsenal with AP putty and ball bearings, set it up in front of all possible doors, use the pull-firecracker setup by running the string across the door, passing through a angler (like a eye-screw on the wall with the claymore) so it will be detonated if the door is slammed open, so as the door bursts open three swat rush through and get a huge burst of spherical shrapenel.

Windows would have to be manual, or maybe some fishing wire setup (so its harder to see) and maybe run across in a net fashion so there is no screw up.

The problem with swat is that they normally attack from every possible angle, so an escape is extremely difficult unless you have an escape planned out through a unforseeable rout, like a underground escape hole/hallway out into the city somewhere. Another problem is of course arming the devices, if swat comes after you, normally you are not going to have any warning (unless its a warrant serving), so the claymore thing might only be plausible if you are having a 6-12 hr standoff with the regular police joes.

I think the best idea would be NBK's full-hinge solid wood door with the 'catchers' from walmart on top, bottom, maybe even the middle. A few shotgun 1oz slugs through any door could take out a couple of swat as they tried to break through that barrier.

[zaibatsu]

Couldn't you use a reed switch type setup used on burglar alarms to activate a timer. So, the cops could blow/smash open a window, give it 3-4 secs, so that they get in, and then set the claymores off. Basically though, I think the general opinion is that if you try to fight the SWAT teams you will die.

[simply RED]

You will know when the police are attacking, just hear the queeeeeakkkk.

[CragHack]

i wouldn't use the door stop, or the narrow hallway as a means to fight the swat teams, i would use it as a delay of sorts so you can get away easier. If you are going to use a house for an extended period of time, make sure it has a basement, dig a tunnel to a secluded spot so if the feds come knocking you can easily get away.

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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[Foodos]

zaibatsu its more of a fact for the non-tactical elite, I guess. They are an extremely well trained group, if you ever watch the discovery/tlc channel or even fox with specials on criminal standoffs the criminlas are normally fine, as in not in any danger so far of being killed/captured by basic police. Its when the SWAT come in that they get there asses kicked, one fine example is the 20 min+ shootout between TWO men and the LAPD in the bank robbery shootout, but when the SWAT team shows up they are taken out in about 2-3 minutes (if I remmembered that correctly).

I don't think its very plausible to fight off, or destroy the SWAT team in your own home, or especially by yourself unless you had a long time for setup.

[This message has been edited by Foodos (edited August 10, 2001).]

[nbk2000]

Claymores INSIDE the house? Even I wouldn't risk that. Outside though would be a different matter.

To arm whatever defenses you have, there should be a cord attached to a switch, that runs around the perimeter of every room near the ceiling. Then, if ever attacked, just go to the nearest wall (no more than a few feet in any average house) and pull the cord. This assumes no small children or idiots.

The pull cord should explode smoke bombs and set off screechers in every room, but no lethal weapons for obvious reasons. The smoke will blind enemies who, being unfamiliar with the layout, will be stumbling and groping about, while the screechers covers the sound of your movements, making aiming and shooting at your sounds impossible.

Only once you're safely enclosed in your bunker bed (forthcoming in NBK2000 V.2) would you then arm any lethal weapons.

A possible idea would be to have a PVC pipe running along the base of the wall outside where the piggies would line up prior to their assualt. There's a tube of polyethylene running inside the PVC pipe, with the gap filled with nails and other shrapnel.

The poly tubing leads to a solenoid valve (like for sprinklers) that controls the flow of a binary liquid explosive. The end farthest from the explosive has the detonator.

If attacked, when the signal is sent, the solenoid opens, the liquid explosive is mixed and armed, fills the tubing, and after a float switch inside the liquid storage tank reachs bottom (empty) the detonator goes off, exploding the tubing and spraying the area outside with shrapnel.

This has the advantage that there's no explosive present in the weapon until just a few seconds before detonation, leaving it safe at all other times. I suppose you could even use it inside the house, only with some kind of siren that gives you a few seconds warning in case of accidential arming.

To cover an escape, a hedgehog projector would be a good idea to have. These are simply mortar projectors made from pipe, welded onto a steel base or cast into a concrete block, which point out in every direction. They are loaded with smoke and tear gas grenades, and are launched by black powder charges electrically initiated.

When set off, it'll project the grenades in a circle around your area. 50 to 100 yards is enough. The smoke blinds the pig snipers so they can't shoot you, the tear gas (although I'd go with a vomiting agent like DM instead) forces the piggies to retreat or mask, which most pigs aren't going to have.

After you've effected your escape, there's nothing to prevent a prerecorded rant from being broadcast over a PA saying something like "Fucking pigs, I ain't going back to prison, I'd rather die! Burn, baby, BURN!" At which time a big fireball explodes inside the building you were just in, but the pigs think you killed yourself. In the confusion you've bought time.

Passive defenses are good too. Thorn bushes of every variety can be planted in THICK layers around your house, with barbed wire tresles for them to grow on. The wire prevents them from being torn out or cut away easily.

Cyclone fencing can be found for free anywhere you happen to have a pair of bolt cutters with you. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif A section of this attached on the inside of a window, with the curtains between the window and the fencing, prevents piggies from entering or throwing anything inside. Especially since they won't even know it's there beforehand.

Screws can be driven into the edging around windows, and have the heads cut off with bolt cutters. This leaves a circle of jagged metal points around the window frame that can't be pulled out or bent over. Anyone trying to climb through is going to impale their hands.

Cheap window laminate film prevents "break and rake", where they break the window, rake out the pieces from the frame, and then enter.

If you had a really rural setup, you could have a large above ground irrigation pond filled with water. The berm containing it could have a cratering charge inside that, when detonated, would open a huge breach in the berm, releasing all the water to flood the low lying area surrounding your house.

If it didn't drown them outright, it would at least greatly complicate their attack, having to wade through several feet of mud and debris just to get to your house, or rather away from it as you're shooting them down.

The hallway is another passive design that allows for either armed resistance or passive fleeing.

See the wiggly line between attacker and defender? That's cyclone fencing, to prevent dog or grenade from entering. Just didn't have room to include a description in the illustration.

As for the feasability of one man repelling a SWAT attack, it can and has been done. There was one white power man who was surrounded by the piggies up in idaho or montana. He repelled THREE attacks by the pigs, killing several. They finally had to burn down the house to get him out, but he was already gone! Escaped through a tunnel to a creek.

They found him months later, but point is that it is possible.

-Onthefringe-, if you could find a copy of that story with the hallway, I'd appreciate it. It'd be nice to have a real life example I could quote in my PDF article about it.

I do remember seeing on COPS once how the cops went to raid some dope dealers house, and when they entered they saw fishing line running from the doors they had just entered (OPPS!) and heard a hissing sound.

Needless to say these little piggies ran scared. They called the bomb squad who didn't enter, just waited an hour or so, then they went in.

Turns out dude had a box under the kitchen sink hooked up to the water supply. When the cops entered, the fishing line triggered a solenoid valve that turned on the water to the box, flushing any dope down the drain. No dope, no case. Score on for the bad guy.

Remember, anything you do should be in proportion to the time you'll do if captured. Explosives and drowning traps are for death row candidates, smoke bombs and marbles are for car theft and shit like that.

All of these tricks are things that the cops aren't expecting since they've never ran into someone preparing like this. And as the RTPB #51 says;

"Police operate by knowing the pattern of criminal behavior. If you don't fit the pattern, you are that much harder to catch".

------------------
"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

Go here (http://members.nbci.com/angelo_444/dload.html) to download the NBK2000 website PDF.

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 videos.

[Victim]

Well, as I don't have the "SWAT" where I live, the only kind of special forces we have is either the Armed Police Response Unit (SO19 Special Operations Unit 19) Or The SAS (Special Air Service), I woulden't want to take on either. But, I have a picture of the Hooligan Bar someone was talking about, in use by the SAS.

<center>
http://www.angelfire.com/linux/thevictim/images/hooliganbar.GIF</center>

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"Death, The End Of Hope, The Friend Of The Friendless..."

[Mr Cool]

No, I wouldn't want to take on the SAS. They're fvcking hard.
I heard a rumour that my second great step cousin or some super-distant relative like that was in the SAS, he's dead now so I can't ask him but I must find out if it's true. I doubt it, but you never know...
P.S. - I do know that he was in the army.

[This message has been edited by Mr Cool (edited August 19, 2001).]

[nbk2000]

The picture shows them using the "break and rake" technique.

[Fingerless]

Good ideas, NBK! And, yes, SWAT can be beat if you aren't an ill prepared sorry fuck. The best candidates to survive SWAT attacks are: Extremely paranoid, intelligent, loners, really hate the govt, well prepared, weapons experts etc. I'd like to have a nice tunnel dug, large enough for running, accessible from a few inconspicuous spots in the house-maybe a central door in the flooring that when it is opened, can be securely fastened down to resist opening. Down below would be an electrical switch. When flicked on this would allow voltage to travel through the system which would be hooked up to several containers, whatever you want, filled with ANNM.(I'm sure several 30 pound propane cylinders full would do quite nicely) (Or some other explosive you can make, you get the idea) the electrical current would flow into the blasing cap, setting off the cap detonating the ANNM. Around these containers of ANNM would be shrapnel of nails, ball bearings, etc. wrapped around it with a piece of cloth or blanket to hold it in place. When these detonate the pigs are gonna wish they would have never came in-perhaps put a 30 pound cylinder of it at every entrance possible, and one in the middle of the room. Cover them up with furniture, tables, blankets, etc. LOL I know I'm overdoing it on the explosives, how about one central 55 gallon drum instead? Not so obvious, you could stasha couple in a closet. Putting metal bracing/screen over windows is a damn good idea. Also, dogs are wonderful! They seem to have a sixth sense as to someone is coming, they could tell way before a human could. Cheaper than a surveillance system. A fire resistant house would also be a plus, steel framing and concrete, which would also be very strong. Theyd have to ignite your belongings to get you out, which would be inside, and when they start busting in you taket he door out and detonate the explosives.

You can always convince a friend or two to lay in ghillie suits a mile away with .50 BMG's and snipe em out one by one.....

[Heavy Recoil]

Some Exerps from assaultweb.net:

Ladies & Gents,
In light of the most recent situation I feel it is necessary to discuss some factors to help negate an illegal search warrant.
Any other knowledge here is welcome. LEOs jump in!
Please bear in mind that this is strictly from my experiances.

1. Serving the warrant - Generally "they" will stage in an area not to far from the target house - usually a space open enough for several cars to fit. An ambulance may or may not be present in the area.

several police cars and an ambulance is to be construed as something is about to happen.

Arrival at target house - LE will have observed everything from the outside, if practical. They will try to ascertain the location of all exits, and post people there to cover them. Be aware of this. Have an alternative way out of your home, preferably known only to you and NOT visable from the outside.

A knock, may or may not be given. Generally a battering ram is used. Do not put a security iron bar door on your home - stealth is your ally.
They do not know how sturdy your door may be, and most doors are very flimsy, so this is what they will count on.

Your defense - Have an angle iron frame installed with LONG (6" to 10") lag bolts every 6 inches minimum into the studs of the wall through the frame. The frame is what gives 90% of the time. If possible, have a heavy wood door installed with a steel backing plate(at least 1/4"thick), visible only to you. Bolt on the hinges, or weld them on. I suggest using 5 or more hinges, industrial grade steel.
Also - a mail slot here is a huge tactical advantage.

Install three dead bolts - one high, one low, and one above the door knob, use the type that are only visable to you from the inside, and one in the top center of the door.(non-key type except the one above the knob) A "2x4" board across the back in brackets would'nt hurt either....

Get a good standard door knob set, preferably steel. Try to stay away from ornate or brass sets.

Next - windows. If possible, they can and will use a window entry, if all else fails. Plant rose bushes by the dozens infront and close to low lying windows. If possible have thick plexiglass panels cut for an aluminum frame and install them. Window security bars are a good idea to keep bodies out of the windows.

The plexi should stop any tear gas rounds from getting in. Another route is to install the type of metal screening commonly used in rabbit cages on the inside of the windows, and tint the windows so no one can see inside.

Roof - Reroof with a NON-flammible tile/shingle. Slate, tin/steel, concrete, and ceramic tile are good choices.

Siding - same. Aluminum or steel siding or brick(preferably).
Install a sprinkler system, and a high powered vent system (attic fan) to suck out any gases that get inside the house. This can even be set up on solar energy with a battery backup.

Set up a "safe" room, fortify it if possible.


While they are stimyed out front - this is your best tactical opportunity - either go offensive or use your hidden escape route to get out.

Have a gas mask and fire extinguisher readily available.

Once harm has been inflicted upon them, and they see that their tactics are not working, they will back off and SEAL the perimeter. Your chance for escape just got worse. Have your communications on and ready (FRS or HAM) and be prepared for a rescue mission (we hope...).

Do not expose yourself to them, they will have a SWAT team in place complete with sharpshooters. Anything short of outside intervention or you having an armored car most likely means you are trapped.


Have a defensive weapon within easy reach, and stash ammo and mags throughout the house, in accessable areas.

If you do get away, don't forget you have to have a little dough and stash to get you by. Well placed caches are a necessity. Not 1, not 2, but several. Don't dig them all up, use them as you need them.

its a bit extravagant, but a claymore door might be an interesting idea. a pressure sensitive wooden panel in front of a steel door, hooked to a decent amount of explosives, solidox or whatever, with shot glued to the wooden panel. WHen the door is kicked, it kicks back.

OK, everything sounds fine except one small problem. We are making our houses into castles. How long can you hold, in the medieval ages this worked because fellow knights would come to your rescue. We don’t have that, if you hold, you just hold until they talk you out, our burn you out. Either way you lost. We need to figure a way to counterattack. When they hit, and you repeal them, you need the ability to counterattack and wipe them. That way when the reinforcements show up there is nothing left?
Ideal, would be for all the fellow patriots to come to the aid. If the Feds found themselves cut off and surrounded with there lines of communication cut, the situation would be reversed. Much like the British found at Lexington and Concord. But, since no one is willing to get off of the couch this isn’t going to happen.

So, how can we counterattack for our own home? First off we need the ability to inflict massive casualties on the enemy. This taking out only a few isn’t’ working, we need it to be costly, we need to make the government pay for their actions; we need to inflict massive amounts of damage and casualties. Even collateral damage has its place. Then we need a way to spread the word, the sheeple need to be told why, this happened.

I posted this reply to the thread about incindiaries but seems appropriate here too. There is prep type work involved in defeating gas attacks that they WILL use ince resistence is encountered. Enjoy!
Originally from Mike Kemp. Mike is a demolitions expert and his advise should be considered reliable.

Begin--->
Well, here goes. Tear gas, CS and CN, are typically chemicals imbedded in
*smoke mix* or *pyro mix*... smoke grenade material. They are
launched/thrown, and a few seconds later, *go off*, or *function*-- begin to
smoke when the mix inside the case begins to burn... yes, burn. The chemical
precipitates on the smoke, which is composed of nothing more than soot
particles.

I will speak to a condition in a house/building.

If you suspect that you may receive a visit, you can be prepared. Heavy
chicken wire over the windows may well prevent their entry. This can be
attached to a frame and secured inside the structure, not in plain view from
outside. SURPRISE!

On the inside, you will need a pair of gloves, or a ready-rag or something
to prevent burning your hands. Thin deerskin leather makes the best thin,
rough-duty gloves I've seen. Cloth/fabric *work* gloves or anything else
will work.

Sodium or calcium hypochlorite (*bleach*) *kills* the CS/CN. Chemically
discombobulates it. It can be purchased fairly cheaply in bulk, powder
form... go to your local swimming pool store. Strategically place a few
5-gallon METAL buckets around the house, with lids, and put a quart or so
dry bleach in each bucket. Leave the lid on, but loose. If you have time,
even a minute or two, fill the buckets about 2/3 with water in the bath tub
and quickly stir up the bleach, leaving the lid nearby, handy.

When your visitors offer their hostess gifts, snatch them up and drop them
in the buckets. Put the lids on, but loose. They will now be unable to start
a fire (which they often otherwise do), their smoke will be largely
contained, and it will be largely *neutralized* of their noxious chemical.

You don't use the plastic buckets because the hot grenade will melt right
through... and the smoke mix doesn't need air to burn, so once ignited,
dunking it will not automatically extinguish it. And the smoke grenades will
occasionally burn so fast anyway that they will *pop* the case, bursting or
splitting it because it produces gas so quickly it overpressures the case,
which fails. This tendency will be made worse, made more likely by
submergence, because it puts a back pressure on the grenade case where the
gas is being generated. The metal bucket will also help contain the pressure
surge much better than plastic. If the grenade does *pop*, the pressure wave
will likely propel much of the liquid from the bucket, but by that time you
have largely contained their effect, anyway.

Keep a BIG jar of vaseline handy, and cover all exposed skin, extending
under the edges of clothing.

While bleach solution *kills* CS/CN, vinegar *dissolves* it... but doesn't
kill it. While this suggestion may not be popular, it beats breathing the
stuff-- keep several *bandana* rags around, and make them where there are
several layers of fairly thin cloth... old sheets are excellent, for you can
cut strips long and wide enough to be folded to give multiple layers, and
have a long length suitable for wrapping around and tying. Saturate the
bandana with vinegar, and tie it on. This makes for nasty breathing, but it
will also capture and dissolve a sizeable percentage of the active
ingredient in the tear gas smoke, making it at least possible to breathe. If
they become saturated with smoke (if you have to stay in the atmosphere for
a while), just pitch the old one and tie on another.

I cant think of a soft body armor that will stop a full power rifle round. The trama plates will stop most. If they are stacked up outside the door, along the wall, fire thru the wall with a 308 and walk down the wall. A full auto FAL or G3 would be great for this. If the wife had one too, that would be even better!
I guess I am lucky, I had a say in how the house was built. On either side of the main entry doors, front and rear, there are 3" wide 1/8th thick steel strips that are bolted there to help keep the door latch and hinges from being smashed out. The wife was a pain in the ass about it, but once I explained the security benefits of it she was happy about it, plus it didn't cost me anything for the steel or extra to have the framers work around it. You can just see it between the door frame and the trim inside. The door bell is tied into the phone systems so I can talk to who ever is at the door from the phones, and there is a camera in the door bow, and an IR/day light that looks down the porch. I picked up the whole system in a company auction of trade in's and overstocks for about $400. I haven't finished programing the auto patch so that it will display in PIP on the TV's yet, but it IR is also tied into a motion detector. The phones and security systems are all on a 48hour backup battery in the vault(with all the construction in the area power outages are common. Well, thats the story I used on Meg).

If anyone is interested in a security camera systems that will display on PIP drop me a line. I can get the components at cost as we sell tons of this stuff. You may need to do some major re-wiring on existing structures, and that can be a pain.

Replace inside hollow doors with solid wood and deadbolt or latch on the high side. about 6 inches from the top. This will allow the door to "give" considerable without failing. It is also a good idea to latch/bolt
all exterior doors in like fashion.

SEE ABOVE THREAD FOR JAMB PROTECTION ON DOORS

All chimmny's should have chichen wire setup
about 36 inches down from the mouth on the roof. This will keep all nasties out. Yet be far enough down that when the gas backfires and starts to plume across the roof top it will be unretrievable. Making the oposeing force deal with it instead of the intended target.

Keep all outbuilding secured whenever possible. The less cover they have the better.
You really don't want uninvited guests in the top of your garage anyways. They would have the high ground.

For those that live in the country gates on the driveway. barbwire and chicken fence.
It really doesn't look out of place in rural america.

Dogs, both large and small.
Dogs work best this way (in teams)the little ones are nothing more that a early warning systems while the bigger ones make good intimidation tools.

Invest in good anti fire devices.
Next time you replace your carpet get the NON-flamable NOT the flame retardant.
The non-flaminble will still burn but the heat must be much more intense.

Same goes with your furniture/drapes.

Also a sprikler system and fire exstinguishers.
If you have power you could also flood the sinks, tubs, and unhook the washer and let it flow.

(After all, we know after two public burnings that they arn't going to put you out.)

Also If you go to war and it becomes a two way shooting range, break contact.
E&E Don't hang around. If you can make it a safe distance and try to disapear.

Look @ Eric Rudolf! He played hide and seek instead of cowboys and indians. And it's driving them batshit!!

I have tried to mention things that I didn't see posted above. There are many more, but so far this thread looks good.

PS: if your a real prick. Dig a trench and tunnel it with the overhead support strong enough for a lumber truck but weak enough so it won't hold a Abrams.

Here are a couple 'unusual' ideas.
First, those door battering rams...pretty much go for the center of the door...maybe have a 'pre-stressed' spot on your door--you'd have to make this yourself, probably--that will just punch right through but leave the rest of the door standing. Kind of like when your in a tug of war and the other side lets go. Only in reverse.

Effect? 'Holy crap, what do we do now?' Confusion of the JBTs.

Another: have a good heavy wood door, dead bolts like mentioned above, good strong frame, etc, backed by a thing sheet metal liner. I'm not sure of the ballistics of typical CQB weapons, like MP5s or M4s or whatever they use now, but someone should know if a 0.5" to 0.75" wood door backed by thin sheet metal--something easy to work with--would stop 9mm or .223 rounds. Additionally, have 'gun ports' cut in the sheet metal for shooting through the door w/ your .308 or similar...when battering a door down they kind of stand in a line. Return fire--if there is any--should be stopped by the door/sheet metal liner.

Another: a house audio system. This one is quite interesting the more I think about it. Have your house wired with speakers, hidden in rooms and certain hallways. The speakers could play foot steps--heavy, loud ones--people screaming 'over here, pig!', even gunfire, sounds of doors opening and closing...a real house of terrors...in theory, I would think it would have a superb disorienting effect...add strobe lights here and there...the really tiny ones that strobe brightly...and they might forget about engagement (esp. if your well hidden) and leave. However, that doesn't leave you able to E&E for good...they'd just leave the house...and something like that would only work once.

What I'm thinking is that these dynamic entry raids are dangerous for all involved. The guys are scared going in, no matter how many times they've done it. Adding disorienting effects--doors that you can shoot through, but they can't, a door that collapses in one spot but doesn't effect it other wise, and a 'house of terrors' sound system, even better with strobes--may have the effect of losing that hard mental edge they need to execute the entry properly. And that may be just the edge you need to survive.

Remember...they still have a human mind...and the human mind can be decived, confused, and befuddled when circumstances suddenly change from what they are expected to be.

Thought of some other things.

Have lineoleum behind your front door? How about pouring some vegetable oil on it? Maybe marbles? That'd foul up the entrance part...at least for the first couple inside...and impede the rest. Add to the confusion...did they slip and fall? Shot and killed? What happened to them? The guys behind won't know at first.

You have stairs? Marbles or oil again.

I have a pair of boots that are considered 'tactical', and the grip is phenominal...but I'm not sure they'd stand up to vegetable oil on lineoleum, and esp. vegetable oil w/ some marbles to un-even the footing and traction.

Remember...unconventional. They aren't expecting this sort of thing.

How about baby gates? Minor inconvience? Easy to kick through? What if they...weren't?

Break the mental edge...that's 1 part of survial. They'll be going by the book, most of us know what it is in part, anyway. That means we need to counter by throwing the book out...present them with unexpected situations inside.

Something tells me if they ran into enough of these 'houses of horror' they'd rethink either thier tactics for entry, or rethink the entire idea of dynamic entry...maybe go back to knocking politely. Then again...maybe not.
And put a dozen or so trip lines of clear 100 pound test near entrances with hundreds of tar paper roofing nails so they will fall all over themselves if they get in.Simple nail boards at the doors, treble fishhooks hung at chin level in the doorways, loosened floor sctions that will dump them into the basement, and rebar punji spikes at points of cover in the yard. All of this may cost you ten bucks.
Rorke's Drift is the exception, the Alamo is the rule. If you have an attached garage, keep a vehicle in it, stocked, and dont park anything in front of it...
try to have your doors set so that they cant hit them straight on , or get a good easy swing at them with a battering ram, how ?. how about building mud rooms on the outside of your doors. if you strenthen your doors where they dont get through with the first wack , they have lost the element of surprise. i sat down and talked with a swat team survivalist one time and asked about this . he told me " first they are going to cut your power , about 2 seconds later breaking glass from a flashbang coming through the window. then the team comes through the door .,grab a shot gun and those electronic shooting muffs that shut down with loud noises . when the flashbang comes through the window close your eyes till after the blast, when they come through the door shoot the first guy in the knees , even if they have a shield he is going to get wounded and they are going to back out with him . of course after that dont expect to come out alive " :End blatent copying of the assault web BBS

some are good, some bad, but its info.

------------------
"I'm not an assassin. killing is more of a hobby with me."' Robert A. Heinlein

[EP]

In my opinion, if the SWAT (or other specially trained forces) come after you, you are pretty much screwed. But as long as we are talking about making your house into a fortress, think about walls. Sure, doors and windows will be the first entry method, but they can come through walls as well. I think NBK had this video Im thinking of. It shows SWAT with a large frame-looking contraption. What is in it is explosives! When this frame is held against a wall and deonated, you have a new door. I think these can actually get through concrete, but maybe not if it had rebar in it. (?)

[Maddoc]

I was watching Cops the "War on Drugs" the other night, and they were raiding a Heroin dealers house.

He had metal frames over every door and window. So, being resorceful chaps. The pigs pulled them off with a truck and chain.

Remember, if you are going to turn your little house into a fortress. That you need to stop the cops getting ANYTHING inside. One flashbang and you are fucked, it would give them enough time to get at least one or two men inside or to blow your fucking head off.

Yes, Swat now have shaped charge technology from Hydrocut industries. Its a moulded polyethylene frame with varying HE's inside, from Strutable explosives to Strip explosives.

When detonated it can break through almost anything. Even walls.

So the piggies arnt gonna worry about Protekdoor, when they can blow the fucker off.

However, I have never heard of this being used in action by Swat, or any other agency, so chances are its only used in "Special" occasions.

------------------
Whoa, where my fingers?

[A-BOMB]

You guys have all talked about them coming through the walls windows and door but you forgot one, the roof! Out nere my dads house a few years ago (this is out the hills)
well this old half-deaf nut kept on getting drunk and kept on saying that he was goning to kill someone and feed them to his pigs (by the way he was a pig farmer and had 300+ pigs) well one day at about dusk the pigs attacked(the ones with guns not the ones in pens) well they tossed a ladder on the side of the house and climbed up and cut a hole in the roof with a chainsaw and jumped through the ceiling tiles after tosing in numerous flash-bangs in and shooting all his dogs in the head (all 16 of them and they were in their pens too!) They found out he wasn't on the first floor but in the basement watching the game and he didn't hear a thing (being that he's half-deaf). They draged him outside and threw him in a squadcar and took him to jail for 3 weeks. An while he was in jail they got a order from the coroner to gut all his pigs to find the remains, and they got through 52 of them till they found out it was some tourist that sent in a prank call. The kid said that he kill some torist and feed him to his pigs. After he tried to sue every cop that was there and he's still trying and its been three years and he hasn't got a dime!

------------------
live by the bomb
die by the bomb

[A-BOMB]

And I Forgot to tell why they went threw the roof he had thick glass block windows and there impossible to get out in a timly fashion, my dad put them in that house and when he put them in wrong he had to bust them out with a sledge hammer and broke every block out one by one. And the doors where steel he wanted a radation proof house
I remember helping my dad get those on the truck they weighed a fucking ton being that
they were 1-1/2 inch steel door from a prison (I think?) they had giant steel bolts that held them in place and where electricly opened!

------------------
live by the bomb
die by the bomb

[tiac03]

When something is too good to be true it usually is...

Anyone other than me notice that the people in the cop uniforms were more of the bouncer/weightlifter types? Look at their chests christ you poke their foreheads and they would probably tip over. I have never seen cops that looked like that. (swat either).

Now apart from the fact that it is a piece of glorified rubber anyone here honnestly think that someone can market a product that would make it extremely difficult for a cop to get in to a house? (even if it did do what it said they would have to give the cops/firemen a quick way to "fix" it so that they can do their job.)

Personally I think the first 1-2 kicks would break the lock (and possibly the door knob therefore fixing their problem). then once the lock is busted they stick their foot in the door to keep it open and proceed to cut the rubber. with a knife.

Hell if all else fails they pull out their trusty 12-gauge and put a nice hole where the door knob was. (SWAT) even on a metal door the knob is the weakest part. Hell even a sledge hammer and a piece of a Train Pin (cylinder of hardened steel about 1 foot long and ~2 inches diameter (dimentions from memory) would fix a stubborn door.


Anyways if they send SWAT after you you're screwed. Your best bet is to burn down the house and run to a planed out hide out. Once again showing that preparation is the most important thing.

Set up some vid cams around the area, a few of the infrared sensors to give yourself some advanced warning. Also plan out a few escape routes. If and when there is a raid you will have an extra few mins to get ready.

Anyways Isn't it procedure to halt activities when there is a possibility of an "explosive device" being in the vacinity, until the Bomb Squad comes in and makes sure it is not a problem? I'm sure that would give you plenty of time to ditch shit and run. (the plus side is that they have to evacuate the surroundings so you can dissapear into the crowd... they do the same thing for gas leaks...sort of)

I hope I didn't waste anyone's time with this post, and I apologise(sp.?) in advance if I did.

[Jacks Complete]

Could I just point out the most fscking obvious point, that no-one has yet made strongly?

If the cops see you have a solid steel door, they will come through a window. If the cops expect bulletproof doors and walls and windows, they will come through the roof. If they expect you to do a runner in a tank, they will have a tank there ready.

THERE IS *NOTHING* you can beat them at if they are AWARE.

Anything you set up will need to be subtle. If it isn't you are just drawing attention to yourself. Foiled over windows are going to go down great with the neighbours. Tank traps are going to be noticed in front of the average house, even out in the sticks.

Fore-warned is fore-armed, and it works both ways, but they have more experts and time and money and, importantly, lives, than you.

EDIT:
I just watched the ProtekDoor video. Looks fairly good, and it is only $20! Two should stop pretty much anything that isn't faster than the rubber or the door (i.e. shotgun w/ Hatton rounds) and for far less than the cost of the door. You could put one on every door in the house. I would put it inside a kevlar sock or similar, though, to stop it being cut easily.
I have seen, somewhere, a video of some stupid criminals who were beaten by a strong spring closer on a door. One kicked the lock off (iirc) and the door flew open halfway, then closed on the kickers leg, causing him to fall over. His mate then kicked the door too, which didn't help, and after a few more seconds, they ran away!
I have also seen a video (or it might have been in a film) where the cop puts he foot right through a weak spot in the door, and gets stuck.
SWAT use wedges under the doors to make sure they stay open when they go in. I would imagine they always do as standard procedure, so they are likely to wedge the door after a few seconds, and then hit it. I also wonder what would happen with one of the high-powered hydraulic ram openers, as discussed further up.

I think you could make your own using bungee cords fairly easily, too. If you changed the catch from a normal one to a rolling type, that was designed to fail after some large amount of pressure (like a kitchen cupboard door) it would re-lock each time, too, which would stop anyone from kicking the catch out, then being able to push it open to cut the cords. They would have to kick-and-catch, which might take them a few more tries!

For never opened doors, you could cut a tyre, and screw a few large strips of it down both edges. That would stop anyone for very little money! Also, if what NBK2000 was saying about the armour properties of tyres was true (that they rebound the bullet) then you could cover your whole door, and then even if they try to shoot off the hinges with a shotgun, they are likely to pepper themselves, the 9mm they are using should be stopped by two layers (or a section of tractor tyre), they will have fun cutting through the steel banding in the tyres with a knife (as it will rapidly go blunt, and there is meters of it to cut!) yet your AP rifle rounds shouldn't really notice a thing!

[NightStalker]

You could use a steel fiber reinforced tire, cut and flattened, as a door hinge. :)

By using that, and attaching it the whole length of the door, any shotgun slugs used in an attempt to destroy the hinge would be nullified.

[Swindle1984]

The simplest thing would be to open up your door, stick a claymore right in the center or next to the doorknob, the two most likely places to be rammed or kicked in, and let that solve the problem. As soon as the first guy hits the mine, boom. He's toast and everyone behind him is lying flat on his back bleeding from the ears and suffering shrapnel wounds. Reinforce the back of the door so the explosion is directed mostly outward and there you go. Nothing complicated, it's cheap, and it's more effective than a lot of the other plans here. Who's going to send guys in when simply busting the door open gets a bomb in the face?

[darkdontay]

I have thought about a steel reinforced door with a sliding lock that works lick the cylinder types on safe doors. Though I have allways thought it to be funny if you could make some thin layer covering the door in the area most likly to be kicked and have the covering, covering up over soime sharpened spikes. So the scene being they go to kick down the door and get it stabbed through their foot. Not likely but a funny scene to play out in the head.

[nbk2000]

Explosives would destroy the door in the process, unless you've got a huge steel slab for a door, in which case you don't need the mine. :p

[Jacks Complete]

Would it be possible to have something really exotic?

Here's my idea:

Take a slab of steel or whatever, and machine it to exactly the right size for the opening, which is also steel. Now mount coils in the frame and the body. Passing current through the coils would make them stick pretty solid, but this makes them vulnerable to a power cut. However, if the door was carefully designed, you could make use of magnetostriction. Magnetostriction is why transformers hum - when a current passed through it, the magnetic field makes the metal contract slightly, so AC makes it vibrate. Use of a good design would mean that when the power was cut, the door expanded back into the frame, sealing it into, effectively, a solid lump of steel. Power would be needed to open it, and the polarity would also need to be correct.

Slightly more realistic might be a set of high powered electromagnets, to hold the door clamped very shut. Use four on the inside of an outward opening steel door, each with a 3 ton holding force, and you are pretty safe. You could even design it so that to open the door, which was perfectly smooth on the outside, with no handle, you had to enter the right code, which would reverse the magnets and push your door open for you... (though this would need a few magnets in the actual door, too.)

[nbk2000]

And when the cops cut the power and set your house on fire, you're unable to get out the door, resulting in a weenie roast...YOUR weenie roast(ed). :p

RTPB "K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid"

[Jacks Complete]

LOL. Well, yes, there is that. But then I wouldn't think that any of the doors we have discussed here would let you out in a midnight powercut and fire situation. In fact, you might be better with this one, since the electromagnets work off 'C' cell batteries, and could be switched electronically, actually opening the door.

A fire escape is always something to be considered, though, as you are more likely to have issues with fire than the cops, if you are careful.

[nbk2000]

If you're dealing with the ATF or the FBI, you're almost guaranteed to have an "accidential" fire break out in your house. :mad:

[Flake2m]

Actually I was going to mention this.
If you have a highly secure household you might want to make sure you have a planned fire escape route. The idea of security is to keep things out, whether they be police, SWAT, burglars or Jehovahs witnesses, though you still want to be able to leave the house without taking 20mins to lock and bolt everything.

If you were wanting a secure house, make sure you have locks that can be undone easily from the inside and have all keys in places where they aren't going to be lost or stolen. I'd also have a fire extinguisher or two kept in the house as well some detectors installed, maybe even a sprinkler system. That way if a fire does break out you can control it before it gets out of hand or evacuate the house before it consumes you.