Improvised road spikes

[green beret]

I was thinking of a simple cheap, yet innovative idea (as we all do) for making my own road spikes.

(NOTE-NBK I know you have designed your own type of caltrops, I have not in any way ripped this idea from your design)

The first idea I had was not workable, it involved a long (3-4m) roll of carpet about 40cm wide with nails pushed through it, to use, it would have been rolled into the path of the target vehicle, obviuously if the carpet had been rolled up for any length of time it would not rolled out well enough unless you held one end while an assistant held the other end down, not the sort of thing you want to be doing with a speeding vehicle coming at you. So I scrapped that idea.

The next one I had is one that actually works, and quite well, let me tell you :D

Right, heres what I did, these were made from stuff I had lying around the house.

1.Obtain some thick, approx. 3-4cm long flat head nails. These are the actual spike.

2.Then get some wine bottle corks, straight ones, not those curvey ones, and cut them into slices about 9mm thick. So you should have a round slice of cork resembling a thick slice of salami (smaller though of course).

3.Then all that needs to be done is to simply push a nail through a sliced off section of the cork, preferably at a slight angle. Repeat until you have as many as needed
Then as a finishing touch, spray paint them all black or a similar colour.

Unfortunately, these need to be placed on the ground, not thrown, so as to ensure they face upwards. They are best used when you know the vehicle will be coming, so you can set up in advance. Another added thing you can do to minimise them occupant of the vehicle spotting the spikes is to put a distraction about 40m after the spikes, something wierd looking, so that while he/she is thinking what the fuck is that ahead, he/she does not notice the spikes and drives straight on over them.
These spikes best lend themselves to ambush situations, where you set up, then sit back and wait.

Well thats it, let me know what you all think.

[kingspaz]

if you had a welder you could weld lots of nails together into threes. weld two nails into a cross and another one perpendicular to the cross so it would stand up however it landed. then you could get a chain and weld lots of these little units to it so you could simply throw it out onto the ground then collect it back in quickly if it needed to be deployed somewhere else.

[Energy84]

I've been thinking about this one for a long time and I think that fencing staples would be ideal if you were to us the welding method. Just hook them together since they're U-shaped and tack weld them. Then you'd just have to bend the ends apart a little bit to get the right angles. Here, you would have 4 ends, 3 would always be on the ground and the 4th would always point upwards.

[nbk2000]

One should strive to avoid the need for a welder though, since that's a rather expensive bit of equipment for most of us.

[green beret]

Yeah, I know a better job could be done with a welder, but I wanted a method that was cheap and easy. I know they are not the best improvised road spikes out there, but they are very simple to make, and dont require special tools, and although they need to be placed one by one on the road, they DO work. These would be handy if you needed some in a hurry and didnt have any special tools, and isnt that what improvisation is all about, being able to make something effective without any special tools or equipment?

But yes I do like the ideas you guys said, yours especially kingspaz, I like the idea of having them on a chain, for easy deployment.

[green beret]

Another point with mine; it dosent matter that alot of them arent reuseable, I designed them that way so I dont get pissed off when they are damaged etc. If I spent a fair bit of time on a welder, I would get sick of loss/repair, thats why I designed mine to be disposable, when you need more, just take 10mins to make them up, assuming you have enough corks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[nbk2000]

One thing you could do that should make a vast improvement would be to use hollow tubing for the spikes. These would be cut to lengths just a little shorter then the nail, and slipped over it.

When the tire rolled over the nail, the nail would punch the hole, the tube would be embedded in the tire and, when the tire continued rolling, centrifugal force would fling the nail out of the tube, letting all the air vent out.

Or, if the nails are large enough, you could cut a slot along the length of the nail using a cut-off wheel in a dremel tool so the air can vent out quickly.

[Cpt Grim]

Instead of making road spikes and watching them getting destroyed, you could always go to a local hardware store and buy a whole heap of L-nails, I'm not sure what they are exactly used for but they look like 2 L's joined together. They are very effective to as the were on the news in my country

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: Cpt Grim ]</small>

[A-BOMB]

There horse shoe nails, well a while ago I made something like this (sorry for the diagram)

chain =====
pipe / \

====/====\====/====\====/====\====/====\====

Well I made this by getting some old chain and some .25" that fit in the links and I tack welded a 3" piece of pipe every 4 links about 4.5" at a different angle and then I sharped the ends of the pipe with a angle grinder.

[kingspaz]

nbk, yes i was about to suggest that too. thats what the pigs actually use. thats why the tyres get fucked instantly on them. you would only need a welder for a short a day so if you hired on for the weekend then it wouldn't cost that much.

[Harry]

Use Bondo instead of welding.

Twist your fence staples about each other instead of weld. Shorter spikes, but cheaper.

Harry

[THErAPIST]

i have been making tire puncture tubes for quite a while now. to make em i go get some thin aluminum tubing from a hobby shop (used for kites) they're 4 inch long pieces of aluminum tubing that are about a quarter of an inch wide. i take these tubes and cut them in half with a dremel at an angle so that they are like extremely large syrenge needles. i have never once had trouble killing a tire with these. put a few of em thrue a piece or rubber and roll it up. when the car's coming unroll it and then roll it back up after the car goes over it. the tubes will come out of the rubber and stay in the tire. these are cheap. easy to make and extremely effective. only problem with mine is the fact that they are usually a gold color since thats the color the tubing is. nothing a little spray paint couldnt fix though. if you dont have a hobby shop anywhere around you then go to an appliance place and pick up some of those extendable tv antennas. cut those tubes into pieces. ive never tried it but im sure it would work. and if punture tubes dont seem like a fun enough idea then im sure you could always go and press some AP into the tubes with a metal rod on top so that when the car tire goes over it pushes the pin down on the ap detonating it and most likely blowing a small hole in the tire, either that or it might propell the metal rod thrue the tire if youre lucky. if one cant find out where to get a sheet of rubber then im sure you could go and drill shallow holes in a piece of wood and place the tubes in the holes making sure that the tubes could come out easily, or maybe you could just push the tubes thrue a thick piece of cardboard. the car goes over the board or piece of cardboard and you pull the board or cardbopard out of the way so that noone else hits it. simple enough. i think i might have a go at putting puncture tubes thrue a piece of cardboard and sitting it in the road tonight to see how well it works. i doubt a car with 2 flat tires is going anywhere till the next mornin, in which case ill see it when i go to school.

[nbk2000]

Great, now we've got random acts of vandalism with no purpose behind it.

:rolleyes:

Flattening some poor schmucks tires when he's trying to get to his minimum wage job to feed his 3 kids after his wife died from lead poisoning at the battery plant...*sniff*..would just be...wrong!*sob*

At least flatten a cops tires, or some jive nigga's G-ride. :)

Try using styrofoam board. It's 99% air, and flattens to nothing after a car rolls over it. Simply embed the spikes in that. It's extremely light, very cheap, easy to cut with a steak knife, and could even be made to "self-destruct" if there was acetone included in a rupturable container to dissolve it.

[THErAPIST]

heh. if the random acts of vandalism were directed at me then nope. ive always had reasons. good idea with the styrafoam though. noone around heres pissed me off enough lately for me to flatten their tires so i think ill give a few to my friend so he can test it. his neighbor called the cops on him for playing with fireworks (the guy said he was shooting off a gun) so i think the ass deserves it.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Capitalize the beginning of your sentences. And the letter "i" is capitalized to "I" when referring to yourself.

This isn't queerpier. We expect a certain level of grammatical effort from our posters.

You're allowed here only on our largesse. Don't test it further.

Woof. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

NBK

Sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: THErAPIST ]</small>

[green beret]

NBK I relly like that Idea with the hollow tubing, I'll try it some time.

I also dont I also dont agree with random vandalism, but like you said, hit some dumb ass homy-g nigger. See how tough they are on a deserted road without their funkmobile. Morons.

I think I will try the antenna tubing at first, Im also working on some new ideas to improve/elaborate the road spikes, such as small explosive ones that will shred a tyre to ribbons. Maybe disguised as rocks for use on dirt roads.

[Deceiver]

No longer among the living.

NBK

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[Harry]

No longer among the living.

NBK

<small>[ December 28, 2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

[stiler]

Forget the welder the corks and the glue. Just make the real Mc coy.
What you need is ready made spikes. Where do you find them?? Reo mesh that you use in concreting. Grab it at the recycle depot, hardware, building sites etc. Chop it up into crosses with bolt cutters, hack saw, oxy.bent to oposing right angles.
It makes no difference how they are deployed, three sides will always be the legs for support, with the fourth always pointing up!
Hope I havent stolen someone elses idea, I thought of it about ten years ago and it worked for me.

[nbk2000]

The rebar wire has been suggested before.

The problem with using solid objects is that they don't let the air escape quickly enough. If a spike/nail is lodged in the tire, it blocks the air from escaping. If it's thrown out, the rubber naturally shrinks closed, slowing the air release.

Only a hollow tube stuck in the tire will allow the air to freely escape.

Now, for antipersonnel use, solid wire caltrops are good. :)

[Jackotrades]

A very effective caltrop can be made from street signs. A standard stopsign is made out of fairly thick steel. If you cut the sign into squares, four inches on a side, and bend two opposite corners down and the remaining corners up, you're left with a caltrop that will always land with one point up (actually more "at an angle" than "up", but it doesn't make a difference). These particular devices don't just puncture tires, they cut two inch long slits which bleed the air out almost instantly. They are also stackable for compact storage, and highly mass-produceable . When painted flat-black, they're almost invisible on roads at night. Two or three of theses can be carried in the glove box, and planted under tires for sabotage purposes, or you could toss a couple hundred of them out the window in a high speed chase.
I suppose you could "buy" some sheet metal for these too, but what's the fun in that?

A word of warning though....Sign metal is ungodly tough. Cutting these things out takes a grinder. Tin snips tend to "die" when you use them for this.

[sauvin]

Is barbed wire (fencing material) just a Hollywood myth?

[TANIS]

If you live in a rural area the use of sickle mower blades or the triangle shaped blades on the reel of combines works great for shredding tires .I`ve used these before on dirt and gravel roads to keep hunters on their 4 wheel atv`s off the property.If they do find the blades they just assume that they got knocked off a peice of farm equipment .Which is great because ift gives you easy deniabilty


No risk no rewards

[Anthony]

Originally posted by sauvin
Is barbed wire (fencing material) just a Hollywood myth?

Some say that it is an elaborate hoax and the material seen in the media is simply intricate props and complicated computer generated effects, but I myself am a believer! I have seen it with my own two eyes, though I promptly broke down and wept at the sight, unable to comprehend why I alone had been chosen to witness the greatest miracle since Jesus Christ bewildered onlookers by shooting terrifying bolts of lightning from his anus.

Lord protect us from the incredible world we are unable to bend our meagre minds around!

[nbk2000]

To Anthony:

[Austin Powers]
Oh, behave!
[/Austin Powers]

;) :D

[A-BOMB]

Barbed wire a hoax I've ran into enough of it hunting to know its real. I also use barbed wire of keep ATVs off of my property I take two 2'x4's posts and hammer them into the ground on the sideds of the trails onto my land and then I staple/loop the wire inbetween the stakes at ground level to 2" inches above. It acts as a rather effective quad deterant.

[Ezekiel Kane]

:D Sorry guys, I'm laughing my ass off right now. No, barbed wire isn't a hoax. I'd been told that only us southerners are familiar with it, but I never believed that. Guess it came back to me. Barbed wire was originally used in the mid-19th century during the cattle drives, when cowboys would drive longhorns north to railheads for sale by the pound and property disputes came up.

Down here in Texas you see it *everywhere* - it's just understood that if you're infiltrating a secure building you're going to run into it. It's more common on the sides of the state highways down here than ricerz waiting for AAA because they can't change the tires on their Honda Civics themselves.

[grandyOse]

Barbed wire is also common in the midwest and western usA. You may have trouble finding it in the stores if you ask for it , though. The correct pronounciation is; BOB WAHR.

[DBSP]

OK, lets get this back on topic shall we??


I don't know where I got them but I've got two of these things I've found.

It's basicly a round metal plate with three triangle shaped "wings" pointing upwards. I've noticed that the point allways end point up when thrown to the ground. I discovered this when I accidetally dropped one of these while cleaning out my room and then allmost stepped on it.

I'll see if I can get a picture of one of them up, I don't really remamber where I put them actually but if I would find one of them I'll let you know.

They would be great for dispersing from a car window in a pursuit(sp?) or similar.

[Anthony]

I've seen similar things to what you describe, but with the spikes pointing out on both sides and more of them. I believe they are used to join the ends of pieces of wood together, butt to butt.

[A-BOMB]

I know those things, is it a stamped metal plate thats curved with metal spikes on the outside edge? If it is, its a metal chair leg portector you hammer them into the bottom of a wooden chair leg to help keep them from scratching. They would be great at a beach but first you would have paint them a sand color. Those fuckers hurt like hell to step on and are a fucking PAIN to get out of your foot at 2am. :mad:

[ErebusBat]

Why not modify NBK’s idea and use paper or Styrofoam plates with nails pushed through it? Simple to construct with readily available materials from any Wal-Mart.

The only downside I see is that if it were thrown then it would be possible to land wrong-side-up. There could be several probable solutions to this; just a few:

1. A streamer so if it were designed to be thrown it would orient correctly when falling.
2. Modify the nails/tubes so that it would not matter in what direction the tire had to impact. (i.e. the plate might be in the middle of the nails/tubes)
3. A weight on the bottom of the plate/bowl so it would orient correctly.

[A-BOMB]

I made a bunch of these types of road stars, I took a long strip of 3" wide retangular 1/4" sheet steel and drilled a hole in the center of each and tack welded a 3/8" steel tube into each. They were really easy to make a made about 50 in about 1 hour.

[Tuatara]

There is a special type of nail you can buy at hardware stores called a 'wire dog' IIRC. Its used for securing joists to bearers and bearers to piles when building houses. It looks like a big double ended nail (two pointy ends that is!), bent into a rectangular "U", but with a 90 degree twist through the bottom of the U, so the two 'arms' of the U are pointing 90 degress apart. F*** its hard to describe this thing in words.

So if you toss one of these on the ground, you'd get one point sticking up, and the other point and the bottom of the U lying flat on the ground.

Nice thing is they're ready-made, perfectly legit and made of 4mm thick steel.

[YayItGoBoom!]

Heres a pretty simple and effective device, though I am not sure how effective it would be at punctureing (I tried to cut up a tire once for a project that I needed rubber strips DAMN that was hard). You cut up 2" squares of 1/8 sheet metal, put a hole through the center, and drive a piece of copper pipe through it so its equal length on both sides. Sharpen the edges of the square and pipe for more cuttability (that a word?). It always ends up in a diagonal position with the pipe at 45 deg, making them ideal for throw and run scenarios. If it lands with the pipe facing against the direction of movement, it punctures and deflates the tire quickly. If its on the side, then the sharp corner of the square is facing the tire, and would do some damage itself. The only situation that might not be as effective would be if the pipe is slanted upward away from where the tire would be coming from. There is a chance that the whole square would be imbedded in the tire, if you serrated it it would optomize the effect.

[Jacks Complete]

I have know a few examples of caltrops. Most were just two bent nails, welded, with the heads grinder sharpened.

One was of a different type from most descriptions.

Four long wood screws were welded together, in the usual fashion, and then a Dremel tool was used, with a cutting disk, to put a slot in the side of each screw. This was similar to the blood drain on a sword. The tips were ground sharp. The threads would have ensured massive damage as the device was ripped out, or the wheel would be very out of balance.

It seemed to be very effective, though not to my knowledge ever tested on a car tyre.

Obviously, the slots would have been better cut before welding, and all the way through. This would ensure that air could escape at high speed, regardless of the level of penetration of the tyre (assuming the inner tyre wall face was breached)

As a purely theoretical idea, a stamped version (Edit: of a caltrop, not off the above design), similar to a 6 point shuriken, could be made quickly and easily (with a press!). The points would be bent three up and three down. When thrown, these would be very sharp, and stick into the tyre pretty solidly, seriously unbalancing it.
Without a press, it might be possible to cut sheetmetal to shape, perhaps with a pair of tin snips, or a whole stack of sheets could be cut into a hexagon shape with a hacksaw, and the "points" bent appropriately.

[steyr]

You can make crosses from two parts of flat steel, weld it and weld SHORT nails to it. Now you must make few, and spike it to carpet. If you use long nails, they will bend. Short nails must be long enough to pierce tire. SORRY FOR SCHEME :)

http://steyrphotos.w.interia.pl/nails.gif

[xyz]

Please capitalize the letter "I" and word your posts more coherently in the future, it's a long fall to the banned for life section and you're balancing on the very edge with the 4 uselesss posts you have made (in other threads as well) .

[xyz]

OK, now that your post makes a bit more sense, that design actually looks OK, but why use cross shapes? Wouldn't squares be easier and more effective?

[steyr]

Ok ok you're right. You can use squares, circles, crosses, even stars! Only don't make thin and long rectriangle, it will fall. Maybe you can try bending them lightly in direction of car like that:

http://steyrphotos.w.interia.pl/car.gif

[Jacks Complete]

As an aside, the IRA use(d) a carpet of nails. They didn't need a welder. They just bought a load of carpet tacks, then hammered them into the roll of carpet, rolling as they went. This was then just unrolled across the road to be blocked. After all, you don't need a base plate, as the tarmac will do, as long as the nails point upwards!

(I copied ^-this from my reply in the water cooler)

Also, I wouldn't angle them like that, unless you are driving one way, and the mark is driving the other!

[PHAID]

The problem with nails is that it takes awhile for them to deflate a tire.

The road spikes that the police use are actualy hollow to let as much air out as fast as possible.

Ive been thinking about a small explosive that can be deployed like the caltrops that would cause a quick blowout when ran over.

That would give a quick jolt and give a much better chance of the driver loosing control.

We have a show on here about police chases and they have had some drivers go for many miles on just the rims so i feel a fast blowout would be the best option to be of any tactical use.

sorry for repeating basicly what NBK had posted, i didnt read the posts far enough up:(

[Jacks Complete]

PHAID,

hence my idea to have the small metal stars that stick into the tyre, and stay there. At high speed, one of these in the tyre will wreck the balance and make the car un-drivable at speed, as well as working on "run-flat" tyres so beloved of our military and police. Another effect would be the lack of traction would make cornering a shower of sparks and excitement!

The police "core" type of trap uses hollow steel pins that actually leave a load of small holes cut out. Nothing too dramatic, as they aren't trying to kill, but the fastest cars get only a half a mile with four flats, and, of course, the police cars don't have the same disadvantage, so can easily keep up.

[EP]

A link some might find interesting:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/08/1070732147919.html

[majes]

Is there any way to have a chemical caltrop? Something so reactive with tire rubber that it would ruin the tires relatively quickly, you could spray it out of the back of your car.

[Dave the Rave]

Not so easily made but, why not take an square of metal, cut four slots, one at each intersection of the angles, then bend one point up and one point down, sharpen it with a file and it's done. Any way it will be trown on the street, at least four sharpen points will be protude upwards and four will be downwards, Surely it will quickly flat the tire.

[Rhadon]

majes: Looks like something from a movie... that won't work, there's no substance that will severly damage rubber in a matter of seconds.

Dave the Rave: That method would damage the tyre, but the difficulty will be that the piece of metal is not going to get in contact with it in most cases. Therefore you will have to make a lot of them and that would be a very time-consuming process, so I would favour other designs which are better suited for mass production.

[nbk2000]

I have a formulation (DVD) that will depolymerize a tire within a few minutes, but not in the quantity or with the rapidty, that you'd need to use it to stop a persuer. It's for sabotage and immobilization.

[udtst]

NBK, What is the compound that does that to the tire, and how canI make it? I got a couple of extra tires I would like to see "melt".

[nbk2000]

You'll have to buy the DVD to find out. :)

[Dave the Rave]

@Rhadom - Sure it´s not so mass product designed, but, once you´ve started to make one, it´s easy go on and make one hundred... Besides, think of it, a smal box, with an eletricaly opered open, where 50 of these things are lying over a bed of BP with an ignition sistem, rigth at your car´s back ... You looks at your retrovisor, and find yourself being chased by the pigs... You hit the "fuckoff" button, a small explosion scares the chaser, while propels the spikes by the road. A bit of smoke covers the spikes, helping the chaser to loose control of the car.

[PHAID]

Dave the Rave
That might be an interesting and possible option for small areas but what do you do for larger cities that have a helicopter on your ass as well?

The best option is never to get them after you in the first place.

[udtst]

This might sound a bit weird but what about a focused emp blast. Just shut down the cops car.
Get the plans for an emp pulse generator put a "dish" on the end to focus it and then start shuting anything with computer chips down :) a place you can buy the plans is
http://www.plans-kits.com/plans/emp.html

NBK
on payday I'll be getting that dvd :)

edit: PHAID
Emp should take out the chopper as well if you aim the gun at it. Then not only will you be in trouble for running from them, you'll also get murder charges. But hey bubba will always be there for you!

[xyz]

EMP doesn't work very well on cars because the metal car body absorbs most of the energy and stops it from reaching the electrics.

[Skyscraper]

Would a dish actually focus the EMP to the degree required? I mean, you'd need it to be more powerful one car away than it is IN THE CAR. It's just not something you'd like to be wrong about, you know?

[udtst]

I am looking into how the US military uses emp to shut down cars and other things. I know they have the emp bomb, and I know how that works. though I am not sure how the "emp rifles" work at getting past the metal plating of the car body. when I find out I'll post it.

[Jacks Complete]

Some research has paid off. It seems that in the UK, most police cars now use tyre sealant in them. This will re-seal up to a 6mm hole, guaranteed. Not sure if it would stop a stinger from stopping you, but certainly it will be an honourable mention. The stuff is called "Ultraseal", and there is a video online of someone stabbing a tyre a lot with an icepick, and just getting tired!

This further enamours me to the idea of sticking things (in)to the tyre to unbalance them, as this would seem to be the only way to be sure.

[YayItGoBoom!]

How about trying to take out the fuel line instead of the tires? Same effect, stops the pigs in their tracks, and might provide some interesting fireworks that would cause further confusion. A simple, electronically triggered claymore with two wires sticking out of the top, like those electric bumper cars. A car driving over would complete the circuit, and set off the hemi-cylinder shaped explosive (the shrapnel would be place in a half circle arrangement to take out straight above, coat the bottom of the car with holes and most likely puncture something, as well at send some into the tires. If you really wanted to go the whole 9 yards, screw the shrapnel, just pack the thing with a few kilos of ANNM. (I am no explosive expert but surely 5 lbs of your choice of AN based explosive under a vehicle would....not be pleasant for the driver if you will)

[Skyscraper]

Has anyone considered injecting some kind of incindiary mixture into the tire? I suppose you'd need to find out if that re-sealant is flammable, but even if it's not, could the incindiary destroy enough before it ran out of air? As far as that goes, would the oxygen being consumed cause the tire to deflate?

[udtst]

Ok after thinking about it the best way to stop the car is to take out the driver. So we go get a very fast and fun bb gun like in: http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?threadid=748&highlight=bbs

,and

http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com

then just eat threw the car and to the driver.'

nbk even said something along the lines of this in that post(first link):

" If it was, for instance, aimed at a person inside of a vehicle, it'd first shatter the windshield, then break through, then chew up the interior and the occupant within. And do so without any annoying blasts to draw witness attention"

sounds like a winner to me :)

[Skyscraper]

Originally posted by udtst
" If it was, for instance, aimed at a person inside of a vehicle, it'd first shatter the windshield, then break through, then chew up the interior and the occupant within. And do so without any annoying blasts to draw witness attention"

sounds like a winner to me :)
I'm pretty sure that if they wanted to do that they could just use a supressed pistol. The idea here is to stop cars without having to aim, and without killing the driver (presumably, otherwise the thread would be, "Improvised land mine").
What if your target were, say, an armoured car?

[nbk2000]

A landmine? That's subtle.

Yes, it'd work, but then how are you going to drive over it yourself since (presumably) the person chasing you is right behind you and will be following in the same lane (or road) as you, meaning you'd have to drive over your own mine first...;)

[vulture]

Another idea would be to drive around with a trailer behind your car where you keep all the incriminating shit in.

If the shit hits the fan and you get into a pursuit, you detach the trailer, which then becomes a nice obstacle for your pursuits.

[Efraim_barkbit]

Injecting incendaries(!) in the tires? using a bb minigun? and this in a thread about improvising road spikes. gimmie a fucking break!
is it kewl month or what?

[Skyscraper]

Originally posted by Efraim_barkbit
Injecting incendaries(!) in the tires? using a bb minigun? and this in a thread about improvising road spikes. gimmie a fucking break!
is it kewl month or what?
Whoo, you got me there. I bow to your higher postcount.

Would you care to tell me why I'm wrong, or are you just going to say "DUMB NOOB LOL" and leave it at that? I don't see why what I've said is unreasonable, or even inappropriate to a thread about road spikes.

[flashpoint]

The good thing, about this design, on the picture I'm posting, is that whereever you throw it, it always lands with a point up, ready to pierce a tire/foot/hoof. The reason I said foot and hoof, is because they were used a lot in Medieval times, to stop horses and people....

http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/artifacts/caltrop.gif

[kingspaz]

those particular ones wern't used in medieval times. they are hollow and have vent holes, specifically for taking out wheeled vehicles. the venting allows the air from the tyre to escape in a very short time period.

[flashpoint]

True indeed...I was just stating, that I have read from numerous sources...including old history books, about how they used to use caltrops on men and horses. I never saw those vent holes...thanks kingspaz for pointing that out :)

[kingspaz]

the pictures you provided are quite useful as they demonstrate a simple yet effective design. it can be seen from the photo that the caltrap is simply two pieces of bent steel tube. i've never tried bending steel in such a way but with the help of a blow torch i don't think it would be a problem. infact, it would be possible without a blow torch. if a piece of steel tube was taken and had the ends sharpened with a grinder and then the vent hole cut into it also then it shouldn't be too difficult to bend since the section of metal being bent would be oposite the vent hole so in effect, almost flat. make two the same then spot weld together. arc welders are quite cheap, and very useful.

[Blackhawk]

Exactly, these would be great if you were trying to get the cops of your arse, just have someone in the back throwing handfulls on the road, or whip up a small pouch undreneath the back of your car that opens to release between 50 and 100 of these with the flick of a switch, no matter how much gap filler they have in their tires if the spike lodges in the tire it will not be able to re-seal.

[flashpoint]

Yes, indeed...because the gap, won't reseal, beause of the holes in the tubes...I'll have to do some tests.

[Blackhawk]

Make some and go to your local cop shop, hide them in front and behind the tires so they roll over them when the cars drive off. Just make sure you don't leave any fingerprints/fibres on the spikes and don't get seen putting them there or watching the fun too intently, on second though brobably better trying them on a car that dosn't belong to the pigs :P

[kingspaz]

Blackhawk, thats a fucking stupid idea. why go out of your way to find trouble? if you need to test it why not test it on a random car parked in the street?? much safer alternative. plus you can then pick your spot and avoid areas with CCTV (such as police stations)

[xyz]

Although it is a stupid idea, I think the reason he posted it was because it would test the effectiveness against tyres that contain resealing agents (like police car tyres). Most tyres don't contain any.

But, just to clarify, I still think it is a very stupid idea to test it on a police car.

[Blackhawk]

Yes well obviously, hence the:
"Just make sure you don't leave any fingerprints/fibres on the spikes and don't get seen putting them there or watching the fun too intently, on second thought brobably better trying them on a car that dosn't belong to the pigs :P"
I was just saying that it would be good to test against the re-sealing agent but there is no way you could safely use them on a cops car so don't bother.

[PHAID]

Find a high end sports car, The corvette ZR1 did come with the self sealing tires as im sure several others do as well.
You can also load an old tire down with "Fix a flat" which will give you a good guide as to how well you spikes would work against self sealing tires.

[NightStalker]

The only way you could be sure that the spikes would work against the cops tires would be to use them against the cops tires.

The RTPB's mention practicing your skills before you actually need to use them. This would definitely be something you'd want to test before hand.

The worst time to find out that your spikes don't work against the piggies tires is when they're 10 feet behind you while you're going 100mph.

[Ammonal]

I have been inpsired by the picture that flashpoint posted and so I bought a 6m length of 1/2"OD pipe with 1/8" walls. My theory is that I will cut 2X 6" lengths of tube, bend in the middle to a right angle, clamp together and weld, and drill the exaust hole. Although I figure that because the part of the tube that puntures the tire will be hollow all the way through, the exaust hole will probably become a weakness but I will see once I have made about a dozen or so. This 'tire sealant' is probably good for 1 or 2 6mm holes but what about a tire hitting 3 - 6 spikes? surely every time the tire hits a spike, some of the pressure must leak out; thus drawing the sealing compound with it. If the tire hits multiple spikes then soon the tire is gonna be a drag and reduce the handling of the piggies car. Especially with someone mentioning dropping 50 - 100 of these spikes onto the road in one go! That has got to slow the barstards down, hopefully into a tree or ditch or other piggies car ;)

[Anthony]

I don't see why those vent holes are needed. The air should simply escape from the other end of the tube which has penetrated the tyre.

[blindreeper]

I was thinking the same thing but maybe the tube becomes sealed welded together? I am not expert welder so I wouldn't have a clue.

[Ammonal]

Providing that I do not 'blow' right through the walls of the tubing as I tack weld them together I believe that the exaust vent will not be needed. That and a nice coat of matt black spray paint ;)
I should have some pictures within a day or so. Dont know about testing them, I have some old farm equipment which I can bugger the tires on. But I think that I might have to go to another town to "field test" the spikes.

[Blackhawk]

the vent holes might also be usefull if the car tire squashes the tube at the bend point stopping the air from escaping out the other end, and the holes don't really detract from the function so it is a good idea to have them.

[udtst]

Idea, what if you took each spike and connected them into a "spike strip" like the ones that the big city cops use. Maby make it spring loaded some how so that when deployed it will strech out and hit both front tires.

Also what if you made the tips of the spike like arrows or like a fish hook barb. That way when they go in it is very hard to get out.

[Blackhawk]

The spike strip idea has already been discussed at length above, the idea with this design is that it is much more like a caltrop, in that it will always land with a spike up and they can be thrown from say a moving car to catch anyone behind you, you can't very well deploy a spike strip if you are being chased by the person you want to screw up.

[Jacks Complete]

See this new thread:

http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3573

for a new and possibly better way to stop the pigeon ..er.. truck.

[flashpoint]

Ammonial, any pictures yet? I"m curious to see this.

Anthony: I doubt that it does need vent holes, although, if it had them, I can see the tire deflating a lot faster. :)

[xyz]

Vent holes would just add that extra bit of reliability in the offchance that the pipe was bent shut by the car or something like that. It would be very easy to put them in too so I can see no reason not to have them.

[Ammonal]

All in good patience Flashpoint, things are very busy with new years over and work (not part time) beginning again. But in the morning I will have photos of the first spike I have made. I ended up using some thicker 1/2" with 2mm wall for the first spike because I am just plain too stingy to buy a 6metre length at the moment. The spike is also fairly large I might consider bringing the length of pipe down to 4" and 1/4" pipe. The photo will have a one litre acetone tin next to the spike for reference (I think most people here should have some idea what size a litre tin of acetone is ;)). Anyways I will edit this post and add the photo, I will also provide several more photos for those interested on my website (which is empty at the moment too)

EDIT: You may have noticed that I said earlier in one of my posts that I had bought, I should have said was planning on but still I am glad that I didnt because these spikes are pretty big when made from 1/2" pipe. The photo will illustrate this better.

[warren]

If I was to make road spikes I would take 4 1-inch nails and make something like the piece in a jack's set, the piece you hafe to pick up before chatching the ball. Make 10-20 of those put them all in a bucket and chuck them out on the road when the car is approaching.

It would most likely work but if they were not welded or glued properly they would just break under the tires.

[Ammonal]

Warren: read the first 9/10th's of this thread and you might learn why your suggestion is stupid, for anything solid to be effective against a tyre then it must penetrate the tyre and then be removed for the air to escape. Nails/rod/rebar/etc dont work for this reason.

More importantly here is a picture of my prototype tyre spike:
I think that 1/2" is too big for making the spikes but 3/8" might work well, providing a wall thickness of at least a 1/16" is available.

EDIT: I cant see the picture? is it just me? It says its attached. Either way the picture and a video of the spike being thrown will be on my website in little while.

[blindreeper]

Would larger spikes not be better? Bigger hole, more air escapes?

[DimmuJesus]

The calthrop concept is of course great. An idea I had, although this sort of idea is discussed in a way already, would be this:
Purchase a determined length of thick steel wire, like used to re-enforce structures. Get it with the loops on both ends. Also purchase a couple of very strong load-bearing carabiners. Finally some barbed wire with 1/2" or 3/8" inch spikes, whichever is determined to be better for puncturing a tire.

Wrap the length of the steel wire tightly with the barbed wire, so the whole length is spiked, minus the loops at the ends. Decide on a predetermined spot for this road block, someplace that has structure on both sides of the road equally placed (telephone pole, fire hydrant, mailbox, etc.) Extend the spiked wire the lenth of the road, of course as close to the ground as possible. Wrap around structures at the roadsides until it is pulled tightly. Use the carabiners through the loops and then onto the wire itself, so the when pulled on the wrap actually tightens.

The idea would be, of course, that when a police or other vehicle drives over this, it will puncture all four tires without snapping or removing the wire.

[xyz]

Blindreeper, the caltrop that ammonal posted is quite large, it also uses very wide tubing so it will let plenty of air out, I tink the tire would go flat in a matter of seconds if it worked properly.

The only peoblem that I can see is that the wider you make the tube, the more force will be required to pierce the tyre with it, and therefore lighter vehicles may not be properly affected.

[Blackhawk]

Mabey it would be good to make a mix of large and small ones, that way if a heavy car hits the large ones deflate the tires in a matter of seconds, but if a lighter car hits and the big ones don't penetrate the smaller ones do.

[Ammonal]

That would be overkill, when you could make a heap of these (all I used was a hack saw, some pipe, and arc welder) They take about 5mins each, though if you were to go through and cut 100X 6" lengths of pipe (enough for 50 spikes) and then bend each of these, then weld, you should be able to make 50 + in uder an hour. The most time consuming part of production would be waiting for the paint to dry.

[JamesyBHOY]

The pic that one of the users provided above of the Road Spikes can be bought here

http://www.fire-balls.com/catalog.asp?display=6

Except they are called Road Stars(scroll down a little),Although i don't think many people could afford to buy a useful amount of them for the prices they charge.Still always handly to know where to get them just in case.

[JamesyBHOY]

Then again if they have this on their vehicle,then the road spikes will useless as shit.

http://www.sdms.co.uk/PersonalProtection/Pages/Pe135.htm

[Three]

Earlier on there was talk of barbed wire, and it was dismissed as stupid... From the tone of the discourse I gather that barbed wire is not particularly common in the US, but here in Australia it is literally everywhere. Children's playgrounds have barbed wire fences around them.
Anyhow, I realise that it wouldn't be useful to bleed the air out of tyres, but it's a bastard if it gets stuck in anything - it can be extremely difficult to get out. If you lay a length of barbed wire across a road, or threw it from the back of a car, it would imbed itself in the tyres of anything that drove over it. At that point the car is screwed - seeing as it is a wire, it would immediately wrap itself around the axle and probably foul the brakes. The car would immediately be disabled, and would quite possibly lose control and crash, which can only be a good thing.
Ther best part is that barbed wire is totally legal, you can have a hundred pre-cut lengths in the back of your car or ute and not only can you not be apprehended, noone will even give it a second glance(particularly if it's in the back of a ute).

[Jacks Complete]

Three,
Perhaps that is where they got the idea for the X-Net from? A whole mess of barbed wire would be rather good, but I can see problems in getting a long enough length to tangle round anything, whilst still allowing deployment.

JamesyBHOY,

I have that stuff in my tyres, and it does do the biz! This is why the police in the UK, in a lot of areas, use it. It stops caltrops, etc. Also, there are semi-solid rubber inserts, and various other tricks to stop tyre deflation ruining your day.

Further up I suggested a solution wherein the plates stayed attached to the tyre, unbalancing it and destroying the road holding.

Having said that, the caltrop made by Ammonnal is chuffing huge! I doubt any tyre sealant could cope with a hole that big... Having said that, I doubt many APCs could climb over one of those!

[JoeJablomy]

What if you closed off one end of a 10 ft. water hose, filled it with blasting gel, and screwed a hydrostatic fuze on the other end? For the fuze I'm thinking of a cylinder that screws onto the hose on one end and has the other end closed with a fixed firing pin and a small vent hole. The detonator is a piston that sits on the gel and has a primary pellet on the air side to hit the pin, and a BC or an RDX pellet to initiate the gel going through the center of the piston. For long storage, the piston would have O-rings to seal the gel in, and a spring srtong enough to separate the piston from the pin until at least 200 lbs of pressure is applied to the hose. An additional safety device would be a pin that restrains the piston and sits between the firing pin and the primer pellet.
Granted, this would get ATFE called, but it would definitely say "Fuck Off" to anyone folowing you louder than caltrops. It would probably also do more than a few hundred $ damage.

[Spartin13]

i hope that this helps. i was in the equipment rental busness. We had tire sealent in our equipment. On test of the sealent Bobcat mini loaders were used (due to use on construction sites) the test was the following: a 2x12 x8' with appox 500 16 penny spikes (about 1/4" diam.) after driving over forward and reverce tire held. Most sealents are very good to 1/4" and would probley hold with a few 1/2" (good sealents also use fiber to help plug holes) I would really concider 9/16-5/8 thick walled tubing. it would punch much bigger hole and discharge too quickly for sealent to hold.hope this helps

[PHAID]

They also use what is called solid tires which have a foam interior and wont go flat no matter what you do.

I have seen pick heads and parts of driveshafts punched through those tires and all you do is weld a chain to it and pull them out with a forklift.

I doubt you will find tires like that on your average police, military cars but it is possible.

[JamesyBHOY]

Yeah i think those tyres are just used in the newest armoured vehicles,that only heads of state or royalty could afford.Instead i would guess military or only special police divisions like anti-terrorist or firearms officers would have something like i put in my last post to protect their vehicles tyres.Ordinary police no chance of having that( at least not here in the UK anyway)they just have the exact same as all of us and can be put out by spikes by their own colleagues,that's why the car that is going to deploy them always goes up ahead,deploys them then get's it back out of the way incase it takes out any of the cops cars.Shit police here won't even ram you unless it's last chance saloon,as they are warned about damaging a £40,000 police car,s the forces in the UK don't have the budget for it and can't afford to unnecessarily have a write off of a police car caused by some policeman in a moment of hastiness.

[Jacks Complete]

JamesyBHOY,

did you not read my post earlier on in this thread?

I stated as fact, because it is a fact, that the police in Leicestershire, at the very least, have anti-deflation tyre sealant in the tyres. :confused:

The reason the police don't drive over Stingers is because would you waste your time potentially trashing your tyres, damaging the Stinger, and possibly risking your collegues lives by leaving the damned thing in the road?

Or would you pull the wire to bring it back neatly, put it back in your boot, and continue the chase?

As for making your own tyres foam filled, you can do it with a can of foam from B&Q, but it will fuck up the quality of your ride! Foam filled zero-presure tyres don't work like pneumatic ones, as they aren't a nice springy tyre to absorb road bumps any more. You can also get solid rubber rings that go round the wheel rim to stop the tyre from coming off the rim, which stops you having to worry about running on flat tyres at speed.

[jojo7]

I OCR'ed one of my old books (It's from the PMJB2. NBK) that has a page on this. This will save you a lot of time. Ill put this easy one on this page.

http://www.flube.com/users/jojo7/pic4.jpg
A Caltrop like device that requires no welding or bending can be constructed from short sections of pipe and six bolts and nuts. If welding equipment is available,the same .'device can be constructed using six large nails. The advantage of this type of caltrop is that several of the units can be strung onto a chain or cable. This assembly can be stretched across a roadway and anchored to solid material,i.e.boulders, trees, wrecked vehicles,etc, at each end. The road can be reopened only by cutting the chain or cable with a torch or bolt cutters. The personnel attempting to remove the obstacle are again open to sniper fire.

The pipe caltrop is constructed follows. The measurements can be altered to suit the materials on hand, Each individual caltrop is made from a six inch long section of 1” diameter pipe, and six 3" bolts w/nuts.

A. Drill 6 sets of holes through the pipe, in 3 rows of 2 holes each.Pipe will contain total of 12 holes. ie, six sets of holes on set for each bolt(see drawing).
B.Use a grinder or file to sharpen the ends of the bolts.
C. Pass the bolts through the holes and install and tighted the nuts.
D. If welding equipment is availible large nails may be installed in the holes and welded into place

[Jacks Complete]

Top tip for removal of the above - hook it to the back of your truck (or loop a rope or chain round it) and drive away, and you will soon move it!

For closing a road, I would go for a large number of designs, including some nice flat ones, with contact adhesive on them, or some kind of design like a double ended nail, which would be power hammered into the road, (wrecking the tarmac too) so they can't be street sweepered up - a few explosive ones should slow that down even further.

[nbk2000]

If the chain or cable is strong enough, and the anchor strong too, than a vehicle isn't going to be able to remove it, especially if the chain is pretensioned so there's no slack and is of a short length.

I recently found a patent that caught my interest. It involves using layers of sheet explosive, interleaved with highly expanded foam sheeting, to form "switchable" ERA that is non-explosive until "switched on" by compressing it to remove the air gaps created by the foam, and being non-explosive the rest of the time because the explosive sheets are thinner than their minimum propagation thickness otherwise.

:)

How this applies here is to use the same concept, only having a small detonator circuit built into it, so that, when driven over, the device becomes explosive when the device is compressed, at which point a few nails on the inner face of one side of the device pierce through the sheets until the contact the other side of the device, completing the circuit and BOOM!

:D

By making it so that many pounds of pressure are required to crush the device, you can carry around a fully-armed AV mine without extreme risk, ready for instant deployment, as even premature activation of the detonator is harmless as long as the device isn't compressed, as the explosive sheeting is too thin to propagate the explosion across the foam airgaps to transistion to a full detonation.

Same principle may find use in AP mines.

These aren't road spikes, though, so sorry for going OT. ;)

[Jacks Complete]

NBK,

If the chain was that strong, mount it at sitting head height, and you are talking lethal effect without explosives, even through the windscreen!

I thought about using a flat sheet of explosive for an area denial device, with the plastic explosive rolled out into a thin sheet that will just propagate. Adding the "pressure switch" into it is a stroke of genius, though! You could easily design it so that the whole mat was split into two, with a sheet of foam in the middle, in much the same way as a pressure mat for an alarm system. Use metallic/conductive parts on some of the areas that will touch when the mat to trodden on, and pass a current through that to the detonator(s), which then blows up the entire sheet. One sheet is thick enough plastic explosive, the other would be tinfoil or whatever.

With your design, only the part that was being trodden on would be able to explode, so you would need a detonator at that exact spot. I think the point of the ERA being made like that is that the impact sets the ERA off at the point of impact, but nowhere else, so that the armour continues to protect. If you got it just right, however, it would be something akin to an everlasting landmine! :)

My idea was to use the sheet for protection against SWAT or whatever. Wait till they are all in the hallway, and frag the very floor they are standing on. I suspect the near-field pressure wall would shatter bones and break the mind! It was to be command detonated, though.

Not quite a caltrop, but certainly anti-feet!

[nbk2000]

You're obviously misunderstanding what I wrote.

Look at US Patent #6619181, look at the pictures, read the patent, then understand.

The WHOLE thing explodes once compressed, not just a part, just like I described.

[Ropik]

I made some workable caltrops few moths ago, using low tech tools - hacksaw, vise, hammer, pliers, file. I took iron rod 8 mm square and 12 cm long, saw both end by 4 cm, bent it away and sharpen with file. When you have bench grinder or drill grinding wheel, you should use it, because hand filing tips on this take ages and is very boring.
Conclusion: everything for this type of caltrop is widely available, but both sawing and sharpening takes huge amount of time. When you are experienced and equipped with grinder, you can make one caltrop in one quarter of hour. Using concreting mesh will be much faster. I am going to try this idea.

[Jacks Complete]

NBK,

regardless of what the patent may or may not say, I cannot see why anyone would want ERA that explodes over a volume area, and not just at the point of impact.

If you did it that way, you only have one protective blast, rather than many, and a far bigger shock to your tank, etc. than otherwise. Also, if the explosive sheet will not propagate the explosion beyond where the two sheets are pressed together, how can the bulk of it which is not in contact with the other sheet explode?

Ropik,
with a vice, hammer, and disc cutter, you could produce about one per minute out of concreting mesh. Chop a whole load of Xs, then batter each one in the vice with a hammer. Actually, a bending tube would be more use and faster. I can see 30 in half an hour being done. If you had to weld steel bar, I would say perhaps one every 3 minutes, as you would have to have some sort of jig, fire the welder, etc. An assembly line would at least mean you didn't have to wait while the first cooled.
Cut the bar/grill at about 45 degrees so you don't need to waste time sharpening it. The heat from cutting will harden the tips, too. Don't forget, the wheels and feet aren't going to care whether it is 45 or 15 degrees.

In other news, I was inspired the other day. A sort of mantrap design would be good for stopping car tyres, regardless of design, runflat, etc. As long as you knew the direction of travel, it should work.

Imagine, if you will, a modified mantrap design, where the jaws come in more parallel, and are designed to bite into the sidewall of the tyre, gripping it tightly. On a normal tyre, it would rip it off totally, leaving a fairly shredded tyre behind, even with anti-puncture fluid. On a solid tyre, foam filled for example, it would grip and tear, and then lift the device off the ground so that is slams into the bodywork, hopefully tearings large chunks out of the tyre. The same for the designs with hard rubber inserts or load bearing sidewalls (assuming the device was strong enough to penetrate in the first place)

[Bert]

Here's an interesting little pocket sized product I found last weekend. These could be easily made from roll pins sharpened on a grinder and pieces of old car tires...

[Jacks Complete]

Bert, is that "stowed" and "deployed"?

rather neat, but how is it self-righting? Is it designed for parking lots or banks or something, rather than a throw-down?

[Bert]

Bert, is that "stowed" and "deployed"?

rather neat, but how is it self-righting? Is it designed for parking lots or banks or something, rather than a throw-down?

The one in back is stowed, the one in front is deployed. The instructions are to place one in front and one in back of a parked car's tires.

This isn't a scatterable item as sold- More like a "pocket stop stick".