new generation of handguns

[twinkle]

this seems to be the new generation of handguns electronically firing multiple bullets in a split second

http://www.odwyer-smartgun.com/main.html

[SawedOff8gaugeman]

That seems to be crap. Just some gearhead trying to steal your money with a complete piece of shit. http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif Traditional guns offer the same firepower, probably more "stopping power" and work better. Additionally, they are much finer artifacts http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/cool.gif

btw, I don't consider this as something which belongs in the "improvised weapons".

[J]

I wouldn't buy one until it's tried and tested for reliability. It may have no moving parts, but traditional automatics have been tried and tested for many decades, whereas this one hasn't.

The increased ammo capacity is a good feature though, assuming it's as powerful.

Moving to misc...

J

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[AR-15 Man]

Well apparently some countries are considering this technology. I haven't found anything explaining it well yet. But the 3 second shot burst in 1/500th of a sec has promise. If this technology is robust and has long battery life (10,000 rounds or about a month) then I can see it being used if the rounds are marginally effective and can penetrate body armor.

[Predator]

actually they're not new, they've been around for a good couple of years

theres a thread floating around about this somewhere


[This message has been edited by Predator (edited September 20, 2001).]

[-A-]

Mhhh, I heard of this kind of guns before too. Looks like they have had no success.

[SawedOff8gaugeman]

Some day their attributes might be equal to conventional handguns, but... They
-would surely still cost a lot more
-would be a very commercial product, not even nearly easily improvisable.

Magazine(=barrel) changing would be much slower, no doubt.

Tri-burst at high rpm/rof... not so unusual in conventional handguns, for example in Glock 18(about 1500 rpm, do I remember that correctly?)... Of course the Glock has a lot slower that an electronic one is able to have, but I still assume the performance cannot differ so much. (You can even reload "Tri-burst" or at least 2-burst ammo for some semi guns and revolvers (for example .357 mag and 2 pcs 9 mm buckshot balls) with lead balls. This is of course poor in armor penetration)

Cartridge capacity of 20, 40 or 60 wouldn't be any kind of a miracle, as modern full sized handguns have 15-20 and 30 hicaps. By always keeping a normal magazine attached and possibly also 30rd hicap(s) available, firepower doesn't differ so much...

Cartridge manufacturers would nowadays ban handloading if they could. That kind of ammo system would presumably allow this http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/mad.gif.

And finally, during a war/crisis or "the Day of Wrath®"http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif getting ammo would be a pain in the ass! http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/frown.gif

...just like getting any uncommon-calibered cartrigdes during a similar situation. Always remember: stick together with .22lr, .223, .308, .50BMG, 9mmPb, .45ACP and 12, children http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/smile.gif
(Hey folks, at least I'm not claiming I invented that myself! http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/tongue.gif)

[Typoed badly...]

[This message has been edited by SawedOff8gaugeman (edited September 21, 2001).]

[twinkle]

I only thought that it would be of interest while the concept of this gun, several bullets in a smooth bore barrel which are fired electronically (no difficult moving parts to make) can be a concept of an improvised gun for short range. I have seen last year a test on Discovery TV to only that was not a gun but alot of barrels mounted together the firing rate was indeed devastating which will give a high impact on a target just like the gatling-gun

[AR-15 Man]

Well I saw how the guns works and yea slow reloads. What about a sub gun that kinda looks like a revolver. Say each barrel holds 15 and you have 4 barrels and it turns so you can insert them kinda like an old single action revolver. That would be a useable system. But as for hand guns and rifles I don't see any real advantage.

[HMTD Factory]

Remember the old "Metal Storm"? Destroys a shack in one blow, very neat. But handguns?

This(hand gun) is one example that an inventor tries to sell what he/she thinks people will buy, instead of what people needed.

But the rig has its own advantage, and most gunfight ended after no more than 20 rounds.

[angelo]

here is metal storms website:
http://www.metalstorm-ltd.com/

they research posible solutions to weapons that do not have any moving parts.

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[Bert]

Metal Storm is moving ahead with a few projects that US DOD is interested in... A nice little weaponized small UAV (http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/dragonfly-uav-now-equipped-with-metal-storm-technology-015778.php) , and a 4 shot replacement for the current single shot under barrel mounted 40mm grenade launcher used by the US army. To hell with the "smart gun", use electronic firing where it makes sense. Who wants a hand gun that doesn't fire if it has a computer crash!

[john_smith]

Might work for making a multiple shot pen gun, but you'd have to acommodate the batteries and electronics somewhere in there too... As for "real" guns, the unequal effective barrel lenghts would cause the point of impact to shift with each shot.

[aikon]

I wouldn't trust my life to a gun of that kind. As the first cars appeared nearly everybody doubted that these "moving things" could replace the horse. Maybe we're wrong with such kinds of guns.

[Jacks Complete]

I question how Metal Storm got a patent on the basic idea of lots of projectiles, each with a charge, in one barrel. Consider the Roman Candle, at least 1000 years old... The cake fireworks have a multishot, multiprojectile system... So there is your prior art!

The main problems with this system are:


Short barrel is inaccurate (early shots)
Need a long heavy barrel to stack ammo in
Later shots have more crud and barrel to get through (slower)
No chance to reload
Possibility of flash-over
Dead batteries mean dead you!


That's just off the top of my head.

[Bert]

I question how Metal Storm got a patent on the basic idea of lots of projectiles, each with a charge, in one barrel. Consider the Roman Candle
I believe the patents are on the inductive, through the barrel firing mechanism and the seals that prevent the first load fired from igniting the propellant of the subsequent load(s).

The advantages of the system as I see it are:
Light weight, non-metalic barrel.
No weight of breech mechanism, magazine mechanism, cartridge transport mechanism, cartridge cases (the ammunition is essentialy caseless.)
The lack of mechanical intermediary in electronicay directed firing situations- Why have your computer controling a solenoid actuating a mechanical trigger?
The extremely high rates of fire possible, especialy without the large motor/drive weights and huge electrial power requirements of minigun type systems.

Roman candles may be made to fire serial shots to the same trajectory by careful regulation of the powder charge, decreasing charge as barrel length increases. I would bet the Metal Storm system will be so regulated.

The hadgun version is not going anywhere in the short term- I would bet the 40 mm systems will be in the hands of troops for various applications within 2 years.

One of the more interesting thingys I've heard of is a 4 shot 40 mm grenade launcher tube to replace the single shot 40 mm under barrel launcher you see various troops using on M-16's and such. Instead of reloading 4 times, you fire 4 as fast as you can pull the trigger and then stick a new pre-loaded tube on your weapon and drop the disposable empty.

Coming to a quagmire near you soon...