KClO3/nitromethane H.E.

[Chris Shiherlis]

In the thread about chlorate plastiques Anthony tells he tried the mixture of potassiumchlorate and nitromethane. And he reports that it detonates very nicely. Actually he invented a new explosive but it goes almost unnoticed in all the other information in that thread. That's why I started this topic.
About this explosive: it's basically just a variation of the Rack-a-rock mixture which uses nitrocompounds and chlorates. But no one did think about it. For military purposes it's not usefull because NM is too expensive, that's why it's never mentioned/used. The first one who proposed it was Outsider in the old thread about chlorate explosives.
The discussion was quite similar to the one going on right now, and at one point nitrocompounds were mentioned to improve the power/sensitivity of the (in)famous chlorate/paraffin oil mixture. He suggested that it might be possible to use NM instead of the nitrobenzene, TNT and NG that are sometimes added to the chlorate/paraffin oil mixtures. Or even just using NM without the paraffin oil.
But he never did try it.
Anthony did (finally), and thereby he can be proudly presented as the inventor :) .
Of course we need to know more about the properties of this new explosive. But we can assume it's very brisant like the other known NM explosives (ANNM) and the Rack-a-rock mixtures. The power will probably be in the range of the last H.E. mixture and be somewhat less than the ANNM explosive. That's because the chlorate explosives are all known to be not so powerfull because of the chlorides that are formed upon detonation. These chlorides, by sublimating, absorb a lot of heat/energy from explosive energy. So the pressurewave of this explosive is not as high.
Maybe we (Anthony? :) ) can do some comparative tests to measure brisance and power (just eqaul amounts of explosive on a steel plate).
My guess is that the new explosive is about as brisant as ANNM/Rack-a-rock (VoD let's say somewhere between 6000 and 7000 m/s) and far more brisant than the chlorate/paraffin oil mixture.
And the power will be equal to the Rack-a-rock mixture but slightly less than the ANNM.
But it's a nice new explosive anyway.

<small>[ March 28, 2002, 06:37 AM: Message edited by: Chris Shiherlis ]</small>

[wantsomfet]

don't think the VOD will be that high. In annm the NH3 sensitizes the NM. KClO3 does not. Adding NH3-anything wouldn't be advisable, cause the possible formation of ammoniumchlorate.
Brisance would be relatively low compared to annm.

[a_bab]

...Not talking about the fact that you'll have too much oxygen in this composition. Ammonium nitrate can be detonated alone, but KClO₃ - no.
In KClO₃/nitrobenzene composition, KClO₃ will be an oxidant for nitrobenzene (n-toluene). And if you add nitromethane which is itself a *powerful* explosive, you'll slow down the vod. It may be an interesting composition with some other "things" added to oxidate, though.

[Anthony]

I'm sure someone must have tried it before I did, it didn't take much thinking to come up with:)

I need to get some more NH4NO3 before I can compare it on a metal plate to ANNM, might as well throw in some KNO3/NM while at it.

I assume simultaneous detonation of the charges would be best, with detcord? Will a foot between the charges be adequate spacing? I'm worried that the detonation wave from the first charge could scatter the other charges before the firing train initiates them.

[vulture]

Very simply, if the VoD of your detcord is higher than the tested explosives, there will be no problem.

[Anthony]

It should be as I'll be using PETN. Would you guys recommend tying a knot in the cord inside the charge to act as a detonator, or add an external booster charge of PETN? Detcord will be 3-4mm I.D and packed tight with powdered PETN.

[kingspaz]

i'd tie a not in it. if its only 3-4mm wide then it would help to have a concentration of power in one spot to make the initiation more reliable.

[Chris Shiherlis]

I know the VoD/brisance of the ANNM mixture is high, probably around 6500-7000 m/s. But that's not because of "NH3-" sensitizing it. First of all, there is no alkaline "NH3" in ammoniumnitrate. secondly, NM can be sensitized by not only alkalines but also acids, strong oxidizers/reducers and what else BUT it has no significant influence on the VoD of the NM, it just makes the NM cap sensitive. And all NM mixtures have a high VoD/brisance, basicly between 6000-7200 m/s.
And my guess is that this mixture of KClO3/NM has a VoD/brisance compairable to ANNM. But the power will differ significally because of the chlorides as I explained earlier ( the other mixture Antony tried, KNO3/NM is very interesting in that regard, one would expect the same VoD/brisance AND power as ANNM, but we'll have to see. And that goes for the other mixture as well).

And about the detcord: ANNM is very sensitive (no. 6 cap) and the KClO3/NM mixture as well (although I'm not 100% sure, but since it's certainly 'cap-sensitive' it can be detonated with at least a no.8 cap (about 750 mg PETN). So as long as the detcord in the charge is long enough to contain 750 mg PETN it should be OK. But tying a knot to increase the amount is never a bad idea).

[DBSP]

When you add the NM to the AN some of the AN dissolves and that gives you NH4+ and NO3- ions. When you add NH3 to NM the NH3 gets protolysed in the NM and it formes NH4+. It's the ammonium ion that sensitises the NM and not the NH3.

[firebreether]

Im sorry, I dont want to sound stupid but i guess theres really no way not too..... I've heard the term brisance but i never really understood what it meant. So I was just wondering if it was like VoD or whatever. Thanks for your answer

[EP]

I's sure somebody can give a better explanation, but brisanse in the speed at which an explosive develops its maximum pressure. Therefore a high brisanse explosive reaches its max quickly and has better shattering power than a less brisant explosive.

dictionary.com:

bri·sance Pronunciation Key (br-zäns, -zäs)
n.
The shattering effect of the sudden release of energy in an explosion.

[Lagen]

First of all, there is no exact definition of brisance to date.

I'd argue it's rather the VoD that has to do with the speed of developing the detonation pressure, as that determines how quickly the entire charge gets reacted. But brisance is mentioned in this context more often, because its practical implications are more obvious (crushing power of a breaching charge) and it's still closely related to VoD. The term brisance is also better known in the general public, you'll hear about a "brisant" explosive used by a terrorist rather than "an explosive with a high VoD". An APPROXIMATE formula to calculate brisance (and an attempt to define it) could be B=D.d.E, D[km/s], d[g/cm3], E[kcal/kg]. I suggest you look up the brisance test according to Hess. It still pretty much defines brisance, which then - very vaguely - would be an explosive's ability to crush, compress, or shatter the material of a target adjacent to it.

Here's a quick diagram to get you an idea. Under the bcap there's the explosive to be tested, a steel plate, a lead cylinder, and another steel plate in the bottom. With some of the most powerful explosives the lead cylinder gets completely washed away, so in that case there are some modifications, this is just the basic concept. (Sorry I don't have an English version at hand.)

<CENTER>http://lagen.kgb.cz/Cache/Hess1c.jpg</CENTER>

[firebreether]

so its kind of like VoD but it kind of factors in the power? thats cool, thanks for the reply

[Lagen]

Yes, exactly, it depends mainly on VoD, but factors in the power and density. As VoD is roughly proportional to density, brisance increases with the square of density. Hence all the efforts to compress / bind explosives / make them free of bubbles, a small increase in density has a significant effect on brisance.

[nbk2000]

Brisance isn't an exact measurement, rather a comparitive measurement of one explosives ability to (smash, crush, shatter, destroy) as compared to another.

HMX is much more "brisant" that ANFO, but less than HNIW. So which explosive is more "brisant" is all dependant on what you're comparing it to.

[Chris Shiherlis]

DBSP: you need NH3 to sensitise NM, it's the alkaline quality that sensitises NM. So the NH4-ion has no effect at all. And instead of NH3 you can also use amines but they must be alkaline enough: aniline, pyridine, morpholine etc.

And I made a mistake by saying "VoD/brisance" assuming they would be the same. Lagen explains it's very nice.
An explosive contains an amount of energy. And the quicker it is released the more powerfull the explosive is. So if two explosives contain the same amount of energy, the one with the highest VoD has the most power.

But brisance/shattering power I would define as the ability of the shockwave to shatter steel. And the explosive needs a certain VoD to actually achieve this effect. Explosives with low VoD's like ANFO don't really shatter steel, they might bent it and shear it or fragment it, but high explosives like TNT almost evaporate the steel. That's what I would call shattering effect.

But if you would define brisance as NBK does: the ability to crush, destroy, shatter, etc. the overall power of the explosive is ment. And the overall power of an explosive is dependent on the chemical energy it contains, the density (the more explosive you press into a cubic centimeter the more chemical energy it contains per cubic centimeter of course) and the VoD (i.e. the velocity with which the energy is released).

This way it get's a bit complicated because this way an explosive with a relative low VoD might be more powerfull than an explosive with a higher VoD. (Although the real shattering power of the latter remains higher of course, the overall power/energy released might be lower). But one would call the first explosive probably more "brisant" in the broad definition because it "destroyed" more.

But I agree to use this definition. But still to measure the power of this new explosive compaired to ANNM a steel plate test is sufficient. The overall power can be compaired by looking at the overall damage done. And the shattering effect tells something about the VoD (look at the shape of the hole, how big it is, the edges, the amount and size of fragments, etc. to get an indication of the shattering effect/VoD).

<small>[ April 01, 2002, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Chris Shiherlis ]</small>