The car that makes the man [Archive] - The Explosives and Weapons Forum

nbk2000

January 15th, 2003, 01:43 AM

The car would have to be suitable for the "job" planned.

For normal life, any decent car would be fine. Though if you're wanted...some "accessories" might be nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I don't think all the Bond type gadgets would be really useful. The only things I'd think of practical use would be some smoke projectors and fragile cardboard boxes filled with caltrops that you'd toss out the window when being persued through narrow streets.

Oil slicks, mines, tear gas, strobes, etc...useless fluff.

A CRAWDAD (Close RAange Wide Dispersal Automotive Defense) system would be nice. A little angle iron, some det-cord, and homemade WP... :D

Or a couple minimores that'd pivot down from the undercarrige of the vehicle, backed by steel frag plates and bound pumice to prevent blowing yourself up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> , that'd skip frags off the road into the legs of any approaching foes, cutting them off at the knees...literally! :p

If you had some kevlar in your cars roof, you could have a simple PVC pipe mortar toss a reactivated grenade above the car with a VERY short time delay so it'd airburst right above your car, showering the immediate vicinity with frags (or WP if you've got it). I'd actually prefer WP since it'd be MUCH quiter, would obscure any snipers LOS, and make for one hell of a deterrent to further approaches. :)

In areas that forbid dark tinting, you could use polarized film instead. By crossing the sheets on opposite windows, it prevents people from seeing you, but is still clear enough to pass any tint test the piggies may apply to it. After all, there's no laws against polarized windows. :p

A temporary tag is a nice thing to have for any "borrowed" vehicle you may be driving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I've got a blank one for my state all templated in PS7. RTPB "Better to have it and not need it..."

[ January 15, 2003, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]

mrloud

January 15th, 2003, 04:23 AM

I wrote to <a href="http://www.leefilters.com" target="_blank">this</a> company a while back enquireing about the cost of a sheet of their polarising filter. Ye Gods it was expensive! I can't remember the exact price but it was in the range of AU$450 for a few (three or four) square feet.

My plan was to put a sheet of it over the number plate on my car. It is possible (I have no idea if it is fact) that police speed cameras have a polarising filter over the lens to cut out glare. If it turned out to be true, the filter would cause my number plate to appear as a black rectangle to the camera, yet be visible to the naked eye. The only *IF* (and it's a big if) in the plan was that it would require the alignment of the filter over my number plate to be the same as the alignment in polarised sun glasses, and 90o to the cop's lens. Otherwise, the game would be lost.

The next plan I came up with was somewhat more technical.
I have read about a device that detects the flash of a speed camera and discharges a stobe lamp loacted next to a cars number plate. This causes the piggies film to be overexposed and your plate to be unreadable. Naturally, such devices are highly illegal in Australia and if the cops see your car 'flash' them back, there'll be hell to pay.
Instead of hooking up the device to a flash tube, connect it to a big liquid crystal plate. With some modification you could have a device that blacks out your number plate at the instant the camera tried to take your picture.
I would also have a manual overide switch installed so I could black out the number plate at will. Such a device could be useful in many activites that range from slightly to highly illegal. You'd have to be careful, but if you were descreet, the most anyone would say is: "Whoa! I better lay off those magic mushrooms for a bit!"

nbk2000

January 15th, 2003, 05:24 AM

It's a lot cheaper when you buy it as surplus material.

DaRkDwArF

January 15th, 2003, 08:42 AM

Seen it about in electronics surplus stores around australia, try oatley electronics in sydney

I was thinking of some sort of smoke screen, but I think the best car would be something that runs for under $400 from a private sale, no rego, just grind the numbers off and trick it out to serve as a "one use" vehicle... ovbviously a 4 door would be of more use in case there was more shit then expected to carry with you, you have to take a hostage or you hit the bank on a good day :D

NBK has a good point about throwing caltrops out the window as opposed to having some sort of dispersal system, too much shit to go wrong, especially when it's under the stress of a high speed chase...

I had an idea of mounting 4 shooters lights on the roof of the car on switches, two facing slighty to each side for wider angled viewing, and two facing on acute angles to the left and right of the rear of the vehicle, imaging these in a piggies face while their trying to chase you down in the middle of the night :D

Anthony

January 15th, 2003, 04:49 PM

You can buy number plates that "black" out when flashed. I remember a demo done with a digital camera with flash connected to a laptop and the plates worked. Unless of course, the laptop always loaded a doctered picture <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> I think they only tested it at close range though.

I didn't realise that a counter-flash was a commercial product. A little while ago, my dad suggested the same thing to me and I put it together - a disposable camera flash unit triggered by a commerical flash detector. Very compact and initial testing showed an effective range of 25yds+ (didn't test further). I never got round to adding a voltage dropper to run the unit from the vehicle's 12v battery so it hasn't had real-world testing yet.

angelo

January 16th, 2003, 05:55 AM

Although having a number plate that blacks out on call would be good, wouldn't a number plate that changes be better?

I know it is so bond, but when you plan on speeding, a simple flick of a switch, a lock disengages the number plate, an electric motor kicks in and it simply flips over the number plate where on the back you have another plate.
Of course you will have to cut a major hole in the car where the number plate is but it would come in handy, because if your driving a car with a number plate, the pigs or whoever else is chasing you will be looking for that car with the same number plate. But with a changing number plate you could do something dodgy, park the car and flick a switch making your car sit there with a real number plate.

For other upgrades I'd have to go with caltrops, smoke emitting devices and something that drops in front of the wheels (out of the wheel wells) to 'sweep' anything out of the way that might puncture the tyres. And just in case this doesn't work, run-flat rims.

[ January 16, 2003, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: angelo ]

nbk2000

January 16th, 2003, 09:18 PM

I've thought that you could use a regular printer with starch paper to make a plate that'll dissolve when wetted with water, leaving behind the real plate. It'd not be hard at all to spray some water on the plate while driving down the road. :)

Maybe even just use some water soluble paint to change the letters on your real plate a bit. An "L" becomes an "E", or an "I" becomes an "H". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Also, I've seen stick on "flame" decals for cars that are removable. Put some big ol' funky flames where witnesses can't but help noticing. Then, when away from the scene, pull off the flames.

The witnesses are all going to be saying "flames", so that's what the cops are going to be looking for, while you're driving along quit calmly sans flames on your car. :)

The Jackel was a lame movie, but it did have a neat scene where he had painted a car with a water soluble paint, and used a high pressure washer to strip it off in a minute. Same thing could be done to your car.

[ January 16, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]

Anthony

January 16th, 2003, 09:56 PM

I remember that scene well, though he'd have been screwed if it had been raining :) It wouldn't have been much bother to have another car waiting and just switched, unless the car was carrying something which couldn't easily be transfered - I can't remember.

For escaping persuit, I think you need to either rely on outright speed or maneuverability. I'd avoid long straight roads/freeways, unless I was sure that I could outrun the persuing cars. Although they'd know where you were going (not many choices on a freeway) so can set up roadblocks or intercept you.

The alternative would be to have a slower, lighter, more maneuverable car and either stay in a built up area or take to windy back roads. You want something that really sticks to the road, allowing you to corner faster, and take turns late that your pursuer can't manage, and keep turning, turning until you lose them. You might never go above 60 or 70mph so a "fast" car isn't necessary, just something "nippy" and they'd have a hell of a time predicting where you're going.

For that reason, I think DaRkDwArF's mini is a good choice. Light and nippy and "turns on a sixpence" as we sometimes say over here. The GPS would help make sure you don't go in a circle back to your pursuers if turning profusely - if you had time to look at it.

McGuyver

January 17th, 2003, 12:40 AM

My suggestion would be a all-wheel drive car like a eagle talon or eclipse GSX commonly known as dsm cars. These cars have 4 cylinders but they can be slightly modified to house large turbos, many come stock with smaller ones. You can make these cars run 10's pretty easily with wheel horsepower at around 500. These would be the perfect getaway car in my opinion. They are quite good on fuel because of the 4 cylinders. If there was no worry about fuel of course I'd have to go with a new viper. Twin turbos on a 10 cylinder :D . 0-60 in 2.4 seconds :D . God, I love those things.

As for disguising the vehicle large sheet magnets could be used as long as you don't have too much fiberglass, that is. I'm not too sure if there is such a thing is made, but this would take away the rain issue. This idea could also would for license plates...hold up, are they made out of steel?... not sure. If they are, a electromagnet could hold a fake license plate on top of a real one. Then, with the flip of a switch the fake one drops off to reveal the real one.

Energy84

January 17th, 2003, 12:53 AM

If you live in the country or plan to be in the country when doing risky business, I think you'd be better off having a big 4X4. I know a few guys already who have been chased by police but instead of speeding away on the road, they just slowed down, took the ditch and floored it across a farmers field! :D Worked like a charm.
I've known of instances too where crimes were commited in snowstorms so that the cops wouldn't have a chance of catching their 'prey'. When you have very reduced visibility (less than 100 meters) there's not much chance of the cops seeing which way you just turned at the next intersection. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> You just need to make sure that you have good traction on ice and snow.
The two features that'd I'd love most to have on any vehicle would be the rotating licence plates and a switch to turn off all lights except for those on your dashboard. (Use dimmer switch to keep lights low, then you can still see your vehicles vital stats.) I know that the running lights on most vehicles older than '93-'94 can be turned off by pushing in the parking brake just a notch, which is good for night time, but it's the brake lights that worry me. Also, when the night time lights are turned off, other lights such as the radio and clock become brighter (for daytime use). This is another reason to keep the dashboard lights on but dimmed.

Ctrl_C

January 17th, 2003, 01:05 AM

if i recall, the paint in the jackal wasn't water soluble, it was just latex paint that came off easily w/ a pressure washer. A good pressure washer takes any type of paint off well, especially latex on a smooth (clearcoat) surface.

angelo

January 17th, 2003, 05:55 AM

I knew I had left out something, energy84 and I seem to be on the same freq.

Speaking of frequencies, a police scanner would be a vital tool.

The problem with an electromagnet dropping the plate would be that the plate could be picked up by a piggy, then they would search all cars with the same colour/model/etc... Thats the good thing about the the revolving plates.
You could even go one step further and have even more than two plates, three would be easy to do, as would four. Anymore would be to much of a hassle and would require you to have a dedicated machine for it, which means more weight and fucks up the whole RTPB methodoligy (K.I.S.S).

The thing that has hit professional car people that put their cars in shows are chameleon paint jobs, from one angle the car looks yellow, form another purple and from another angele they look green. Of course this is expensive and makes your car stick out like a sore thumb when your going legal.

McGuyver

January 17th, 2003, 06:24 PM

I was saying the electromagnet would be behind the real plate, but the real plate would never come off. The real plate is attached to your car as it normally is. Just now when the electromagnet is on, another(fake plate) will stick to your real plate. Therefore, when the electromagnet is turned off the fake plate will fall off and who cares if the police get it, it won't do them any good, because it won't belong to a car.

Yeah those cars were metioned for civilized areas, like in a big city there aren't to many fields or ditches that will stop the cops from tailing you. In these instances acceleration and speed would be key.

john_smith

January 17th, 2003, 08:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Or a couple minimores that'd pivot down from the undercarrige of the vehicle, backed by steel frag plates and bound pumice to prevent blowing yourself up , that'd skip frags off the road into the legs of any approaching foes, cutting them off at the knees...literally! <hr /></blockquote>Would it be feasible to mount larger claymores to the rear of the car to take out the pursuing cop car?
<blockquote>quote:<hr />but I think the best car would be something that runs for under $400 from a private sale, no rego, just grind the numbers off and trick it out to serve as a "one use" vehicle... <hr /></blockquote>If they're really after you, this alone won't help. Besides the VIN's, cars contain hundreds of parts that have their own serial numbers on them. If they can get the manufacturer's production records, it's possible to determine the car's production date quite accurately. This gives'em a rough starting point, then they can look up the DMV database, compare the colour etc... Ther was a system called FINAS(sp?) developed in Germany in mid-90's that was used for checking outbound cars on the border. Basically they fed various part numbers into computer to get the approximate production date and if it didn't match with the date in car's slip it was probably stolen and had it's VIN changed. Don't know if it's still used...probably it is, if ther isn't something better already.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />I had an idea of mounting 4 shooters lights on the roof of the car on switches, two facing slighty to each side for wider angled viewing, and two facing on acute angles to the left and right of the rear of the vehicle, imaging these in a piggies face while their trying to chase you down in the middle of the night <hr /></blockquote>A 500.000 cd light on a kind of adjustable stand, fitted with a wire frame with a couple of suction cups(sp?) for quick installation on a "borrowed" cars's rear window ledge... I've actually built a very crude prototype and it worked quite well, except that
1) the light reflected back from the glass to some extent, enough to become annoying in the mirror, and
2) it looked just like that, aka a suspicious big-ass light on window ledge, facing backward. Tossing an old mosquito net over it helped to make it look like some clothing article , in dark, at first glance...somewhat. Anyway, this thing is worth having IMO.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />I was saying the electromagnet would be behind the real plate, but the real plate would never come off. The real plate is attached to your car as it normally is. Just now when the electromagnet is on, another(fake plate) will stick to your real plate. <hr /></blockquote>Wouldn't the real plate shield the second plate from the electromagnetic field...don't remember. However, there'd be ways around this. Good idea :)

[ January 17, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: john_smith ]

nbk2000

January 17th, 2003, 09:49 PM

Something you might be able to do with the rear-facing lights:

Use a magnetic mount to attach the light to the underside of the trunk lid. Run the power cord through the rear seat or through a small hole punched through the lid and have the plug ready to go into the lighter socket. Use wire or cord to adjust it so that the trunk lid, when popped from the interior release, will open to just high enough to be shining the light straight into the piggies eyes.

This way, there's nothing showing while you're driving, there's no reflection off the rear window to dazzle you, plus the raised trunk lid might even deflect an incoming bullet if the pigs are so imprudent as to fire at you while in pursuit.

As for a military claymore...BAD IDEA! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

They pack almost a kilo of C-4. That's a little too much, too close. A minimore is only a couple ounces. For a full sized claymore, you'd need a well constructed, and THICK, steel box with support frame, and mount it with a sizeable amount of blast attenuation foam. Even then, you're taking a big chance.

Though for taking out persuers, I'd use short lengths of rebar, rather than shot, to provide for a large cutting and crushing surface against their radiator, battery, hoses, etc. You'd want them aimed for the engine compartment and windshield. It's difficult to continue driving when you've had a windshield explode into fragments in your face at 120MPH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> :D

I could see having some reactivated grenades attached to 20 yard lengths of cord. These would be fired straight back to the rear of your car into the path of persuing piggies.

You'd simply slow down till you're 20 yards from them, fire the launcher (a simple pipe with a tiny amount of BP), and the grenade will explode right in their faces since the cord holds it at the proper range. Use a 1 second delay so piggies don't have time to avoid it by slamming on their brakes. :)

Agent Blak

January 17th, 2003, 10:07 PM

Are slicks Realistic? WOuld a mix or Grease nd water be enough?

If you were to put large rims on with solid rubber tires the would render Spikes useless wouln't it?

The SNow storm bring up the great idea of Using snow mobile as transport.So will go more than 100mph! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

As a get away car you should take into consideration that you may have to ram something out of the way. I would go with a well made Europian car volvo, BMW, Audi an 80's is all you need. Prefer fuel injection is best.

Maybe an AMC Eagle; 4x4, 4 door, built like a rock(handles a little better)

angelo

January 17th, 2003, 10:41 PM

I meant they would look for the car. Not the car with the numberplate.
Since they have the fake plate they know you changed plates. Therefore they will rely on other characteristics of your car. Like color or model.
And if you have just blown a cop car up with a grenade they would certainly be out to get you and would not care if they have to search a thousand cars.

john_smith

January 18th, 2003, 12:02 AM

Hmm...the grenade launchers sound realy niiice :D Directional charges with instant detonation (flying claymores :D ) would probably be even better (however, small powder charge + rearwad firing = small airspeed = stabilization being a bitch).
The trunk mounted light is nice too, provided the magnet is strong enough.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />As a get away car you should take into consideration that you may have to ram something out of the way. I would go with a well made Europian car volvo, BMW, Audi an 80's is all you need. Prefer fuel injection is best.

<hr /></blockquote>In fact, Bimmers suck when it comes to ramming. Most have I6-s that barely fit in their short engine compartments. Ther isn't enough room to stick a finger between the radiator and a fan blade. Don't know about Audis and Volvos, but (almost) all of their 80's models were slow as shit. As for fuel injection, newer cars tend to have an automatic fuel cutoff switch that turns the fuel pump off in case of a crash...I uploaded an article about ramming on the ftp a couple of weeks ago that has more detailed info about this...the title was something like "Escaping the Kill Zone" IIRC.

The minimores would be especially effective for providing some "cover fire" when crashing a roadblock :D

nbk2000

January 18th, 2003, 12:39 AM

Ever seen those fools who have a trunk filled with speakers so they can annoy everyone within a mile? The things take up the entire trunk.

IDEA:

Replace the trunk lid with what looks like a trunk lid but is, in fact, a false lid made of frangible plastic or foil that covers a "battery" box. This battery consisting of short pipe mortars pointed in all directions, filled with various nasties.

Those aimed to the front would fire frag grenades to reach behind road blocks, taking out the piggies guarding it, at long range (several hundred yards). Those to the rear would fire caltrops or direct fire grenades. Those to the sides could fire smoke to hide your movements.

And there'd even be a few that fire airbursting shells straight up to spray your immediate surroundings with shrapnel to clear off any surrounding pork, since one of their favorite tactics is to surround you from all sides and shoot you since you can't shoot all of them at the same time while they're surrounding you. But this isn't a problem with airburst fragmentation grenades. :D

This isn't the sort of shit you'd be driving around with everyday. No...this is for your final "mission" where you've decided you've had enough of living and want to go out with a (bad pun alert!) BANG.

Now, if you have a pick-up truck with the bed converted to a battery... <img src="http://d106112.u27.qwknetllc.com/ubb/icons/icon23.gif" alt=" - " />. I'm veering off the immediate topic, sorry.

Flake2m

January 18th, 2003, 01:21 AM

BMW's are not good for ramming. I witessed a prang last year when I volvo was rear-ened by a BMW. The Volvo did not even have a broken tail light yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> the BMW had a busted radiator a buckled bonnet aswell as a pissed off driver.

A car that is good for ramming needs a bull-bar and a fairly heavy chasis, plus none of the impact zone crap. The downside is, that they are generally not as fast. I would go for a mercedes as they are heavy and have an engine with a fair bit of grunt :cool: .

nbk2000

January 18th, 2003, 03:55 PM

Volvo's are well known for being built like tanks. They even had an ad once that compared the two. :)

But they're about as speedy as a tank, so they're not for the fast getaway.

kingspaz

January 18th, 2003, 06:18 PM

if you soup the engine up then a volvo would go quick enough. is true about them being built like tanks though. if they wern't i'd be dead.
i'd like one of these though:
<img src="http://www.tx4x4.com/images/coolhummer.jpg" alt=" - " />

[ January 18, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]

mark

January 18th, 2003, 09:49 PM

The thing I'd want most for my car would be a "Evidence dropper" in the trunk. Since I just made that up a second ago, I'll elaborate. Basicaly, it would be some sort of contraption in the trunk that you could use to drop any illicit materials you might be carrying. I figured a hole could be cut in the trunk to mount a box with a trapdore in it. Whenever I wanted to transport an ounce or a gun, Id just leave it in the box. Then, If im getting pulled over, I can just press the button and away It goes. If I still had any money left over, I'd have a tracking system hooked up to the stuff so I could find it later.

john_smith

January 19th, 2003, 12:13 AM

Another idea that's a bit "Bond" but might not be that far off in near future.
Most cars already have antilock brakes and some form of electronic traction control. Now it seems that more and more manufacturers are switching to electrical power steerings. Also, surveillance cameras have become relatively cheap and plentiful.
While making a "normal" car radio controlled would require custombuilt accurate, powerful, and work/time consuming to install servos, thus being impractical for anybody but the movie industry, said newer cars already come with a complete fly-by-wire system. To make them RC, theoretically, all you need would be the control box (preferably with software for all or most such cars), and converting a freshly "borrowed" car could be done by just cutting some wires and attaching a couple of alligator clips.
Uses for this would be obvious, including but not limited to
a poor man's cruise missile, or
a convincing decoy for drawing the attention of piggies and covering your more subtle extraction from the crime scene.
it's just theory by now (in fact, I've never even seen an EPS unit "in person"), so if anybody knows more about car electronics in question...

nbk2000

January 19th, 2003, 01:06 AM

Well, if we're talking future possibilities here, then what about the self-steering cars that they're developing? Eventually cars could drive themselves using onboard GPS and sensors. I'd assume the piggies would have some way to remotely stop such cars, but that could be cut out. If the car is driving itself, and piggies think you're in it... :p ...you're going in the opposite direction. :)

If the road was devoid of traffic, than it might be possible to use differential GPS to follow a pre-driven course. Since the car wouldn't have any obstacle avoidance sensors, there couldn't be any traffic on the road, but road usually don't have traffic on them if they're being blocked off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I always thought it a good idea to have a floor panel that you could open at your feet to drop things out of sight when pulled over, or being chased. You'd want to keep such items inside of a piece of garbage like a flattened can so that the pigs don't go back looking for it, thinking it was just road trash and not something you dropped.

Also, a funnel attached to a short length of hose that leads to the underside of the vehicle would have use on long road trips since you'd simply whip "it" out and piss down the funnel without having to stop anywhere where piggies might ambush you or someone might recognize you from TV (if wanted). The less exposure you have to the public, and the less time you spend immobile, the better.

john_smith

January 19th, 2003, 01:50 AM

As for self-steering cars...guess it will take quite some time. EPS however is already used on many cars. Like BMW Z4, most if not all Saturns, some Opels and Renaults, and probably a bunch of other models I can't remember.

Anthony

January 19th, 2003, 10:10 PM

For ramming, you're back to 4x4 with real-deal bullbars, not that plastic crap.

A remote driven car would be easy - there's already plenty of people doing it for fun to "fight" them. You need two substational motors, wheelchair motors would be well suited, and often come in pairs. One mated to the steering wheel shaft, and on on a linkage to operate the brake pedal. Then you need two lighter duty motors, say windscreen wiper motors, one to operate the throttle, and one to shift the automatic box between drive and reverse.

Could be driven via a decent 4 channel RC set if you can see the car. Better would be to integrate two or more cameras. Those cheap CCD home CCTV cameras would be ok. A high power video transmitter might be hard to obtain, you might be able to transmit as analog data over a CB, I don't know. The control commands could be transmitted as DTMF tones over the CB. With a non-tweaked CB you should get a range of about 40 miles.

DaRkDwArF

January 21st, 2003, 12:40 AM

The best thing about gps software is that you can mark waypoints onto your streetmaps, so you can highlight routes in different colours, mark possible hiding positions, stashes, and mark roadblocks etc as you go past them (easier if theres a passenger to shoot and mark)

Hummers are alot heavier then a 4WD, really only usefull if your planning to make a stand, their also alot larger and wider then most 4WD, think carefully aobut what our going to use...

Axt

January 21st, 2003, 03:34 AM

<img src="http://ww1.ft100.com/~45653/guns.ft100.com/banners/lr1.jpg" alt=" - " />

<a href="http://ww1.ft100.com/~45653/guns.ft100.com/banners/lr2.jpg" target="_blank">rear quarter view</a>

fitted with -

- Holden 202 (Australian engine, 202ci/3.3L, straight 6, 101kW)
- GPS (garmin GPSIII)
- 27mhz & UHF CB's
- Dual band 2m & 75cm two way radio with wide frequency scanning.
- 360° remote million candle power spotlight.
- 240 volt / 800 Watt inverter (now deceased :( )
- other misc. crap - lights/mounted mag-light/8 lighter sockets :confused: /very aggressive tyres etc..

I tried to make a <a href="http://ww1.ft100.com/~45653/guns.ft100.com/banners/bullbar.jpg" target="_blank">bullbar</a> for it, though it ended up way too heavy.

nbk2000

January 21st, 2003, 04:23 AM

So THAT'S where the harpoon gun went to...going whalin' for 'roo? :D

Axt

January 21st, 2003, 06:09 AM

I cant let the American rednecks have all the fun... :cool:

Convincing some twit to mount the gun is the hard part, shes a rough old ride (reminece the scene in terminator 2 and you will have some idea what a wild ride she is).

kingspaz

January 21st, 2003, 06:08 PM

DaRkDwArF, i know what you mean about them being large BUT i feel the fact that they are pure strength compared to anything else available with a decent top speed outweighs the disadvantages of size. you can pic up an APC for under £10 000 easily these days but they aren't going to be much use in a get away since they are fucking slow although you could drive over anything in your path :D

DaRkDwArF

January 21st, 2003, 11:29 PM

Axt! Buddy!
When are you taking me out roo shooting in that thing!

I've been helping my girlfriend dad convert over his short wheel base '70 landcruisier jeep, we extended the fuel tank under both seats, fitted a better roll cage, upgraded the drie train the 24" wheels, self adjusting shocks, uprated springs and converted the steering over to a more modern system

but thats not the best part, we picked up a 308 for free and put some money into it, tis now bored out to a 388 and ripping shit up!

THe_rEaL_dEaL

January 23rd, 2003, 04:07 AM

If I was designing a car for the final getaway I would get a car like a WRX STI. Lightweight, Fast acceleration, great handling, 4x4 for minor off road pursuits.

Shit I would mod to the car would be:

Bullet Proof Glass (at least able to withstand pistol and MP5/similar SMG fire) I think this is the gun that most police swat teams use for urban ops.

Oil slick dispenser. A slick put down just before a sharp corner would render most police GMC/(substitute the piece of shit that your local law enforcement use) shit boxes uselss to pusue you.

NBK's Caltrop idea. Same as above

Some sort of heat seaking missile launcher to take down helicopters. (this is getting too bond :( )
You can evade as many cops on the ground as you want but if they get a chopper onto you its almost gameover, if you stay in the car.
Multiple misiles if the first one misses or they bring a second chopper.

Skirts on the front to deflect spike strips. (A favourite of the pigs)

A car like a hummer in OZ isnt a good idea in my mind if you intend to use the car after the job cause the cops simply start questioning the small ammount of ppl with them.

Thats why a WRX is good idea cause it owns on unsealed roads and is soo common

If price is a problem then a quick, maneuverable car like a mini or hatchback with suspension mods, widerwheels maby even solid rubber, turbo for power and the mods above.

I'm not into killing pigs so most of this shit is reserved for madmen like NBK :p (jokes, no harm intended)

On that note put some VERY good seals on your car, put on a gas mask and dispense some CW agent around the car if a standoff arrises. :D
(eg Dead piggies everywhere. Very Hardcore :D )

BoB-

January 24th, 2003, 07:48 AM

The cops know what there doing, and thats why we should take our cues from them. Growing up in VA the most common squadcar you'd see was an '89-'94 Jeep Cherokee, with well taken care of, and highly tuned engines, These cars are designed to get through backwoods country as fast as possible.

When I moved to the city you'd still see jeeps, but they were usually only used to transport K-9's, more commonly you'd see converted Ford Taurus, with reinforced bumpers, and high performance engine rebuilds.

I personally think that you should rely more on evasive, and confusing manuevers rather than the abilities of your vehicle.

Macgyver

February 15th, 2003, 02:16 PM

Something with a decent engine, and of course all other nice equipment one might need.

I drive a Chevy Camaro, Supercharged 350" V8, with GPS, radio scanner, laser jammer and some other extras which I've installed myself.

Axt

March 29th, 2003, 02:41 AM

<a href="http://www.jdfab.com/dp2/RCCar_video.wmv" target="_blank">RC car</a>, its over 10mb, has a bit on its construction.

PyroTech

April 2nd, 2003, 01:36 PM

Well, a car like a hummer might be nice on the country side, but when you are dreaming of doing a "hit" in a city, It wouldn't be too hard to follow a Hummer. I think a regular car would be better.
The idea of another paint layer, with a paint that is easy to get off, would be a better idea, I guess. In combination with the change of number plate, and the paint layer, pretty nice system.
One of the (many) downsides is, that you'll probably need someone to help you, get the paint of as fast as possible(I wouldn't want to wait for the cops to arive). And that is a little bit against rule 1 of the RTPB(T N O!).

MoToMaStR

April 16th, 2003, 04:22 PM

Well,... I speak from experince... What you'd want for ramming is a 1985 ford LTD crown victoria. P71, better known as a police interceptor. they are loaded with a totaly bitchen Ford 351 Cleveland motor,.. SOME had T-5 trannys. Even if you had an automatic,.. Id suggest putting on a TRUE posi-rear, about a 373, and you'd have a top speed of roughly 155 mph and not ahve a problem getting there.20 gallon tank to accomadate their brutal gas mileage... (8-12 if you beat on it). They have the complete handling package, and giant brakes/tires.And not to forget CB and scanner's inside. My dad had 2 P71's when i was younger and had countless accidents with them. With a dry curb weight of about 3700 lbs, theres not much to worry about. the new cop cars couldnt fish tail you if their life depended on it, and you'd have enough torque to rip tree stumps (as my dad did with his) BESIDES being nearly unstopable,... you'd look like of of them cruising in it.
I remember in racialy challenged areas of town,.. a good amount of people would give "the nod" or "the wave" when he was driving it. IF you could find an older one,.. it would cost between 200 and 700 bucks, a great bang for your buck.
=)

Gargoylebrother

April 16th, 2003, 05:35 PM

Hmmm well as for me i would research the area and scout out all of the cars in the target area of where i was gona do a hit then i would get a car that was exactly like the most comon car i see there an example would be if the most comon car was a dark blue astro van then steal a dark blue astro van and also have a good scanner and plot out at least 5 or more escape routs with alternate cars waiting also have friends waiting along the routs to drive out in cross trafic infront of the cops to slow them down all they have to say is they didnt see or hear the cops also have them deplot spike strips in front of cars and if nessary set up ambushes with heavey firepower to stop cars and if you can get ahold of some seriour firepower a couple of 50cal. MG's mounted in the back of some vans and use them to stop helicopters and defently slow down cops because they will have several cars all going in diferent directions that there taking fire from and the cars there chasing will be quordinating there moves with each other to set up blocks for the other cars and to clear the way also another good vehical to have would be a covered dumptruck this thing could conseal a large 50cal or maybe even a few guys with RPG's in the back wich is covered wiht a tarp till deployment not only would it be damn near impossible to stop it it could also be used to move large opsticals such as big trucks in the way.

Anyway thats my suggestion i know it would take a LOT of money and time to get together that much firepwer and would be dificuly to do it with out the feds noticing but if you could get the funding and the man power it and had a big enough target it would be one hell of an undertaking that would totally fuck the feds over.

Also if you could get this together setup another hit jsut a few miles away just before the main one then link up the two teams and move out. Also setup some snipers along your routs with some highpowered rifles with scilencers or jsut good flash and noise suppressors and have them take out cop cars that are chaseing you if done right the cops wouldnt even know there were any snipers they would just know there taking fire from somewhere even if they know that.

I can just picture it 6 or 7 heavely armed vehicals weaving themselves threw a downtown major city with several million in loot on them just completely messing the cops over shooting up cop cars and taking down helicopters left and right.

Energy84

April 16th, 2003, 09:57 PM

And the April 2003 award for longest run-on sentence goes to.... /drumroll

Gargoylebrother!

Congratulations, you are now authorized to utilise ALL of the keys on your keyboard, including, but not limited to, the spacebar and period key!
Once again, congratulations to Gargoylebrother!

/end sarcasm

Seriously though, you would need to have your own small army to pull that one off!

DaRkDwArF

April 17th, 2003, 10:50 AM

I'm selling the mighty mini for another favoured car amongst the underworld. I've just inherited a Mitsubishi Cordia GSR Turbo.

For those who aren't familiar this was Brendan Abbots favoured car. For those of you that don't know Brendan Abbot he was the post card bandit, often refered to as the modern day Ned Kelly.

The $2.5K form the mini is going into improvements to the cordia.... thinking a T04 turbo, 2.45" straight through and extractors and a few other little bits under the hood, if I've got anything left over it's going to handling (Adjustable King Springs and self adjusting shocks) and brakeing (Green Stuff pads, 4 pot calipers and vented discs).

Bitter

April 18th, 2003, 03:57 PM

How about this for an idea ? Magnetic grenades.

Grenades with a strong magnet attached so that they're more likely to stick to the target car, rather than just bouncing off.

xyz

April 18th, 2003, 08:13 PM

One of the German anti-tank weapons in WW2 was a 10Kg Shaped charge with big magnets (something like 45Kg pull from the magnets) on it that a very brave soldier had to run up with and stick it to the side of the tank.

A smaller, throwable, non-SC, version of that is probably what you are looking to make.

Mmanwitgun88

April 29th, 2003, 02:48 PM

The ulitmate car (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_84805.html) Is here, a tricked out chevy suburban with a mounted M2, completly bullet proof. Can stop a 7.62x51. Mileage sucks, but hey get a dual tank system.
~Dave

McGuyver

May 18th, 2003, 12:35 AM

For the magnetic grenade idea: the car that is that is the target will have to be going fairly slow for the grenade to actually stick. Even with a strong magnet it would probably just slide over the car. If you drove along side the car, then chucked the grenade it would work, because the grenade would be going the same speed as the car. Unless it's a pick-up, then you can just chuck it in the bed. If you have a grenade with a large mass, going through the windows is another option.

stickfigure

May 30th, 2003, 11:19 AM

I would think the best car would be something not connected to you. Cars are legal nightmares and paper-trails. They are something not stolen, in good repair, functional and accessable only when needed. I used to live in LA and everynight there was some sad thrill-seeker trying to run from the police in Media Central and after he runs the car into the ground he tries to run away on foot. The Boobtube is full of Cop Recruitment TV shows that go something like this,

"You can run, you can drive but, you can't get away from the law." "Because we're the Police and we'll hunt you down until your cornered like a caged rat to give you a parking ticket and if we can't get you we'll kill your dog and burn your house down, because we can."

Some major considerations are:
1.) Gas - Soccer Mom Tanks (SUV, Suburbans, Etc.) are slow and guzzle way to much gas to make it very far, also they are big and followed easily.

2.) Bulletproof? - As seen in San Diego, a war vehicle - M-60A3 MBT is also vulnerable and yes it makes for a good show but, the point is to get away and live without going to the clink.

3.) Evasion - Will it hide you from the Media Air Force or allow you to at least combat them in some way? Missles, AAA, something heavy duty, because they are nearly impossible to get away from and fast cars are just a quicker way to die.

4.) Ownership - James Bond cars are cool in the movies but, is it worth investing the money into something that you might have to ditch before you are able to use any of the gadgets? And once you ditch the car your signature is all over it in homemade add-ons.

5.) Destination - Have you ever asked yourself "Where are these fools running to?" the Answer - Nowhere they are exactly that, fools with no plans ahead of time, even the Burbank Robbers didn't plan an escape route, they got guns, armor, Meth and shot up with lead.

6.) Intention - Is your mission Black Ops or just trying to get out of the rat pack on Doomsday?
Would it be easier to do what you need to do on foot and take mass transit to your car later?

7.) Location - Where is it the mission is going to take place? Urban, Rural? a James Bonds special is not going to be useful in the Sticks and a Hummer is just going to get you a quick case of caught.

NBK makes the best point.

The car would have to be suitable for the "job" planned.

An earlier post mentioned using friends, that's the last thing you wantto get involved in, if it's a legal situation. Friends can turn on you and they are just another person knowing your business that shouldn't be. And do you really want to drag your friends down with you? Most friends will not get involved with a foreknowledge of your intentions unless they are involved as a partner in your endevour. And remember Ted Kasinski was turned in by his own brother!!!! Trust yourself only. Ever watched Good Fella's, cut all links to yourself.

Movie car chases are just that...movies, and to really get away takes a lot of knowledge of how not to get caught. Gone in 60 seconds?, please. Most helicopters travel at 160-190 knots and the range on a news helicopters camera lens is around five miles and would still be able to read your plates. You wouldn't be able to hear them or see them when you got out of the car.

McGuyver

May 31st, 2003, 12:03 AM

Umm, the helicopter's speed wasn't the problem in Gone In 60 Seconds. If you recall, the stang was traveling toward an airport and a plane was either taking off or landing and the helicopter couldn't get clearance to pass through airport air space. Also, the whole police force knew damn well who they were chasing and what car he was driving.

If a helicopter is on your ass and you've pretty much lost the cops, find a mall. Go in the mall, turn your jacket inside out or disguise yourself in some other way from the helicopter, then walk out the same place you came in, the cops will cover the other exits much more thoroughly than the one you came in. Steal another car and get outta there. Getting in and out of the mall should be done as quickly as possible to avoid the cops sealing the mall and sifting through everyone. Of course this method of getting rid of the helicopter is only for someone who can steal a car inconspicuously and fast

Arthis

May 31st, 2003, 06:57 AM

Hey mister McGuyver, not everyone is able to do that. This looks like James Bond. Be way more realistic. Helicopter chase down are pretty bad, since helicopter means heliport means big city means many cars in the streets. Your chance is to lose the cops that are in car, then you lose the helicopter by leaving the car, going into a crowded place. Wondering if you really can hope fading away like that...

stickfigure

May 31st, 2003, 06:48 PM

I thought about the mall escape but most mall are covered with camera's these days and they may be able the pick out your face or make a reasonable sketch from the footage. Even parking garages these days have a lot of camera's in them. I was thinking of using a subway at least in the cities that have them or the wilderness at night, or and this is very Bond, have a re-breather set and deliberatley drive off a dock or into a river. The only question is how for can you swim in the dark for eight hours?

Back to the camera's I watched a show on one of the learning channels about a system that has been developed that catalogs everyones face by mapping their bone structure which is hard to completely alter even with surgery and another system that 3 dimensionally maps the capillary vessels in the face which is an individual face print even twin and clones would be differant it's even more individual than DNA. I imagine that once this technology becomes common place the major powers of the world will be cataloging huge data basins with everyones profile. What sucks is that even if your face is covered up these camera's can penetrate that and still read your face print. Hopefully this is still of few years of and the War on Terror zealouts will settle down and approach things more reasonably.

McGuyver

May 31st, 2003, 11:25 PM

I was being realistic. Obviously a person who steals cars should have knowledge of the roads around where he works, how busy they are and ways around them. In many chases when there is a helicopter involved the police will hang back and wait for something to happen or set up road blocks or whatever. That's one of the reasons for using a helicopter, to minimize risk of damaging civilian property, like other cars or even costing an innocent person his life. The police figure with a helicopter on him where's he going to go? That's why I suggested the mall idea. I mean the idea came from a former cop, it's really not unrealistic.

Anthony

June 1st, 2003, 07:33 AM

Outrunning a helicopter is possible. Someone in a stolen Porsche (IIRC) outran a piggie copter on the motorway over here, again IIRC doing - 150mph.

A Shelby 500 GT running on nitrous (as in the film) shouldn't have much problem! :)

Arthis

June 1st, 2003, 11:14 AM

It starts being an expensive use-and-discard car ! You may use it only on a *BIG* action that will you earn a lot of money.

stickfigure

June 1st, 2003, 08:01 PM

What kind of helicopter was is it? Usaully in the States the media uses Allouette III, or Bell Jet Rangers. The police here usually MD500's or 530's and all these are capable of at least 160 knots. Also over here there aren't just one or two helicopters there are gangs of them and they all want the best coverage first. Another factor is that the Police have a Good Ole' Boy complex and love to chase people down for stupid crap. Because the attitude is if you run you're guilty of something really bad and if not we can find something like attempted murder for rubbing a cops bumber which was probably his fault to begin with.

The mall escape is probably a person's best bet in a smaller city, most malls in small towns don't have camera's but in bigger cities I'm sure you'd be spotted real quick. I know someone who ran once and got away but, a stop light helped as it was green for him but red for the cop and the cop stopped for the light. Once he was about three blocks ahead he turned of his lights and luckily he was in a residental nieghborhood at night and there was a large hill nearby. He just drove up the hill and throughout all his alcohol and waited for a few hours. But the next night the same cop recognized his truck and pulled him over. There was a lot of tap-dancing going on but nothing came of it.:p It's a small town and there aren't any whirley birds or local news birds there either, Thank God.:rolleyes:

john_smith

June 2nd, 2003, 07:43 AM

Well, lately there has been some talk about using lasers as blinding weapons on the net. The chinese using them on US choppers, tanks using their laser sights against infantry etc. Relatively powerful lasers are still freely available, and police or news chopper pilots aren't likely to have the appropriate protection equipment. Having it used on them even once could make a damn good deterrant...

stickfigure

June 6th, 2003, 09:50 AM

Not to slam your info but when would the Chinese have the chance or had the chance to use them against US choppers? Unless I missed a minor or major conflict over here I haven't heard shit and I'm 400 miles off the Chinese Coast. I have a set of goggles that I've been issued that are laser protectant against Russian targeting lasers. These would be what is mounted on the Mil Mi-24. They have two lens, midnight green for night and amber for the daytime. Also they are ballistically protectant for small projectiles and shrapnel.

To my knowledge the Chinese haven't been stupid enough to engage us since the Navy P-3 incident.

Anthony

June 6th, 2003, 01:56 PM

Dunno what chopper it was, but the guy outrun it at a significant rate and Porsches aren't *that* fast.

We don't get news choppers following chases either. The news companies rarely use them for anything except traffic reports and there just aren't enough of them for one to happen to be in the same area that a chase is going on in.

I don't see how cameras in the mall are a problem, the cops don't know what you look like. Even if you drove in, got out in front of a camera and the security happened to b viewing that camera and noted a description of you, you could be out of there before the information is passed to the cops.

nbk2000

June 8th, 2003, 02:23 AM

Nobody has mentioned of the simplist, yet most useful, mod. That being the installation of a piss tube.

A piss tube is a length of plastic tubing that is connected to a large funnel at one end, the other end exiting through the floor to the underside of the vehicle.

This allows a person to take a piss without having to stop somewhere to do so. See, when you're stopped and out of your vehicle, that's when an enemy would be most likely to try to ambush you.

By being able to take a piss, while still moving, you're removed a risk to yourself. :p

McGuyver

June 8th, 2003, 05:02 PM

Hey, while were on the subject, how 'bout a shit tube? You could cut the center of your seat out, but keep the center of the seat so you have a plug for it. Cut a whole in your floor, then take like a piece of pvc, 2 or 3 inch and seal the floor with caulk or silicone. Place your cut out seat plug back in, and wa-la, a shit tube. :p LOL, you could even mount a toilet paper holder on your dash or something.
:p

nbk2000

June 9th, 2003, 03:00 PM

There's always someone who's got something stupid to say...:rolleyes:

McGuyver

June 9th, 2003, 04:38 PM

Oh come on! Crap is a problem too. Maybe the toilet paper roll is a little excessive, but who wants to crap their pants? It's much easier to piss on the run than crap. You can always find somthing to piss in even if it has to be the floor, but crap is a problem. Especically since your sitting and driving.

kingspaz

June 9th, 2003, 05:05 PM

he does have a point though. crapping yourself would make it alot easier to track you down once you've left the car...

nbk2000

June 9th, 2003, 08:25 PM

I can go days without shitting, but have to piss every couple hours, so that's where my priorities are at. If you feel you must "poop an' drive", then get a bed pan, put it in a plastic bag, and crap in that. Toss the "bag o' poop" out the window, and pray it doesn't explode all over the side of your car as it goes out. :D

Arthis

June 10th, 2003, 09:34 AM

"The car that makes the man", with some nasty shit on the side...
You should know that hole-seats were used by kings or so in front of people... your 'shit tube' is not really new.

Humm, I don't want to go on again about the "James Bond" aspects of the car, but a few (2 or 3) easy to make gadgets would be useful; actually if I had to use a car for illegal activities I would put a small 4-head nails device on the back of the car. The few minutes got may help you not to be caughted.

stickfigure

June 10th, 2003, 11:38 AM

I can see the news reports now.

"The man has been driving for hours and what's this? He appears to be throwing a bag out the window" "The cops are pulling over to pick it up now."

or

"The car is a white ford with what appears to be a brown spatter all over the side."

The shit tube isn't a bad idea. I know pilots who have shit themselves after a full day of flying. There isn't any shit bag in the Combat Advantage G-suit, there is a piss bag but that's for men only. An onboard shitter would help a lot, although the smell...

As far as camera's in a mall it might help you at the time to get away but if the police have a picture of you face, they might try to pick you up later. A lot of people get picked up in America that way, usaually it's stupid criminals but, a lot of times people recognize them later and turn them in. That's why they put cameras in convience stores they are usually knocked of by someone who lives in the neighborhood. What if you accidentally touched something in the storeor mall, and they caught it on camera? Picked up your prints and matched your picture to them. It might be a stretch but it happens all the time. Or picked up the coat you stuffed in a garbage can or door frame you touched. Most of us have had our prints taken when we were in grade school and that went into a national data base that the FBI uses. Also if you were or are in the military they have your prints, your DNA, and your dental records on file for the next 60 years. And in some cases a retinal scan for security clearances. I don't know if things are like this for you Brits, Aussies and Canucks but with the way your Governments operate (no offense) I can't imagine them to be much differant.

Anthony

June 14th, 2003, 02:43 PM

Who here honestly last at least a few hours when needing a shit?

It's not that hard to go a whole day between thinking "I could do with a dump" and actually going.

Plus if you were going out to pull a job, you'd go before you left, just in case. Plus in case you needed to run, like you wouldn't go out on a full stomach.

NBK is right, pissing is different, you can go to from feeling fine to finding it difficult to walk in a very short amount of time in some cases. Not only physcially incapacitating but very distracting too!

No one takes blood/DNA/finger print from school kids in this country!

Ezekiel Kane

June 14th, 2003, 10:31 PM

95% of the time, you could hold off at least a day before actually having to relieve yourself, but what if you ate something spicy a few hours ago and it isn't going down so well? Diarrhea definitely doesn't hold off for a day, but then again from the other side wouldn't work too well with a shit pipe anyway. If you had a shit pipe, the odor would probably pervade your entire car quickly - no rearview-hanging pine tree freshener can help that. Of course, comfort is probably not an utmost priority, especially if you're considering how comfortable you'll feel if you have to go to prison because you stopped for a few minutes to relieve yourself. For myself, if I was serious about a job, I would go with only the piss pipe and simply NOT EAT several hours beforehand.

I was never printed in grade school... But when you're born, and when you get your driver's license, they make you sacrifice that part of your anonymity to make the piggies' job easier if you ever try running from the long, lesioned arm of the law.

nbk2000

June 15th, 2003, 02:33 AM

Babies don't have fingerprints, that's why they take foot prints, as I've never heard of someone being "foot printed" as an adult.

As for the DNA...I'm sure there's some sort of bullshit going on where every newborns blood is being collected for "medical" reasons, but actually going to some government DNA lab to be included in a database of some sort. I saw it mentioned ONCE in a small article in a newspaper, never to be repeated, for obvious reasons.

You know, it's funny how often you'll hear about something ONE time, and never hear about it again till decades later when it becomes some huge scandel. The government is pretty good about squashing things that are really important to them, but the truth always comes out in the end. Though it may not come out in time to do the people affected by it any good. :(

As for the thumbprint at the DMV, that's easily defeated with the "gummy" thumb. :)

Any sensible crim isn't going to eat a big meal of beans, jalapeno cheddar cheese, with a quart of milk, prior to a job. Sensible crims would take the precaution of taking an anti-diarrhea medication like loperamide to prevent any leaky bowel action caused by nervousness, prior to doing something. Also, they don't drink anything for at least an hour prior, so any stress induced nausea produces nothing more than a dry heave, rather than messy DNA laden vomit. Same for taking a piss immediately prior.

Also, I don't see many times when a crim would be driving around for so many hours that he couldn't take a shit somewhere safe. He'd either arrive at his destination (presumably somewhere safe) or be able to lose any tailing piggies (if he's got a half a brain).

Anyone so fucked up that they spew on the job, or are so careless that piggies get on their six without their knowing, DESERVES to be caught. It keeps piggies occupied while the real professionals go about their business. :)

Ezekiel Kane

June 15th, 2003, 02:26 PM

I've never heard of the "gummy" thumb technique.. What exactly does it involve? Is it truly foolproof? What about the other fingers? Surely the government has some method of getting around attempts to hide one's true prints, and has prepared for such a situation.

john_smith

June 16th, 2003, 07:06 AM

Gummy fingerprints: http://www.itu.int/itudoc/itu-t/workshop/security/present/s5p4.pdf
As for piss disposal, just get some of those small semi-transparent trashbags. Some time ago I had to stop in a place without any toilets or drains for a couple of days and I really didn't want anybody around to notice it, so I bought roll (30? 40?) and went about halfway trough it. Never had one leaking or anything.

nbk2000

June 16th, 2003, 11:42 AM

That's why I am who I am, and you are who you are. :p

Actually, it's "gummi" fingerprints. Do a google search for it. It's easiest for the thumb, though it can be used for all fingers, and is quite reliable if done well.

(We try to encourage newbies here to develop their search skills, rather than hand them the answers outright, so avoid that in the future please.)

I doubt the government has countermeasures in place at the DMV on the 1 in a billion chance of someone using a fake fingerprint. I wouldn't try using it for getting a military security clearance, but for check cashing and DMV, it's perfectly safe.

Kid Orgo

June 24th, 2003, 01:47 AM

Any modifications to a car detectable when that car is found are counter productive. Washable color? Decals? Good. Rotating plates? Bad. Those modifications finger you to the pigs. What you'd want, on a stealthy job, is to change the appearance of your car easily, without leaving any trace of the modifications. The Jackal method might work, along with some plate-changing tomfoolery.

Nico

July 10th, 2003, 03:16 AM

Here's some discussion on disguising a license plate:
http://www.halfbakery.com/idea/license_20plate_20disguiser

Here's a link on that reflective spray:
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030703-120901-3612r.htm

3M makes 'privacy glass' for houses that use electric current to control opacity/transparency. Perhaps it could be used in a vehicle?
http://www.edscenter.utexas.edu/tech/glass.html

---
Anyway, but what I was thinking about was some sort of mud-making machine. You could spray on a 'mud mist' all over your car, and it would look like you just got back from four-wheeling or something. We've all seen those trucks with the dried layer of dirt, right?
A buddy and I once tried to rub mud on a license plate, but it kept sloughing off.
Maybe something like those fertilizer attachements for garden hoses, that spray the mixture along with the water?

It would be cool to just have a 'brown' car ... the paint job would be obscured, the license plate, even the make/model to the uninformed ... you could just run it through a car wash (industrial areas often have free drive-through sprinkler units, so workers can get rid of salt/silt build-up as they're parked all day), or just have a hose plugged in somewhere ready to go.

nbk2000

July 20th, 2003, 11:07 AM

I was in the auto parts store earlier tonight when I saw a remote controlled lighting system for your car that had the remote built into the gear shift knob.

There was four buttons underneath a flip up cap built in the knob.

I was thinking how pimp it would be to have those four buttons controlling things like caltrop dispensers and other Bond type shit. Flip up the cover on the knob, hit a button, and stuff goes flying! :D

No idea on price, since they were still in the process of stocking it, and didn't have it priced, but it couldn't be much more than $50, if even that.

Dank$taVegas

July 14th, 2006, 06:40 PM

Well it seems like this post has died down, but there are many new member and recent advancements in technology that might bring to light some new and interesting ideas into building the "Ultimate Get-A-Way Vehicle"
Lets hear what your ideas & plans for the ultimate get-a-way-vehicle would be and why. What type of vehicle would you start with for a base, and what kind of modification would you do to that vehicle to make it the "Ultimate Get-A-Way Vehicle".

My idea/plan for the "Ultimate Get-A-Way Vehicle" would be all purpose able to go anywhere you pointed it, gobs of power under the hoods with lot of torque at the rear wheels and front wheels, Solid axles, in a 4 wheel drive vehicle a low range transfer case with a high range gear box as well, large reserve of fuel for going the extra miles, Out fitted with useful gear and tools to make your escape easier, be able to do just about any thing needed to evade the law enforcement. There must be some kid of body armor for use in ramming, and to help save key components of the vehicle when it is being abused, must be able to carry 2 people with the option of carrying 4, and must be able to carry most supplies you will need for the job and for your survival while on the run.

Now looking at my list of demands for my idea and plan for the "Ultimate Get-A-Way Vehicle" I see I have already built 2 versions that I use as daily drivers weekend warriors out on the trails. There are a few more modifications I would do to help improve it's escape abilities which I'll list below.
Base-1998 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0L
http://i1.tinypic.com/1zxp1me.jpg
-4.0L Stroker kit pumping out 350HP and 360 foot pounds of torque
-8 1/2" of lift to make room for the 38" rubbers, and to help give more ground clearance Fab-Tech 3 link long are kit. Total of 10" of lift with rubber.
*Note the 38" Kevlar run-flats on 34 bolt bead locks (Good for running single digit tire pressure while off road) or incase someone shoots out your tires. With the way cut out fenders. Bolder/car eating capabilities
Other Modifications include:
-Custom Built Front bull bumper with winch & Rear bumper with tire carrier (fabricated and welded by myself)
-Complete set of Skid plates to protect the underbody and mechanical workings of the jeep
-Custom made roof-rack (For carrying extra supplies) & custom made doors (Made by myself)
-Kilby on-board air (Equipped to run air tools, and air up the tires)
-On-board Welder (Homemade version made by me with the use of a extra alternator, booster cables and welding rods)
-On-Board Lap-Top GPS with good map software
-Totally water proof with hi-rise Snorkel (good for deep water crossings)
-Atlas II Transfer case stacked with a NP 205 for the added Hi-Range gears
-Dana 44 front with a Chrysler 8 1/2" Rear end stuffed with 4.44 gears
-Completer competition interior roll bar
-3 Septer fuel cells (Installed under the rear seats of the jeep)
10" bear disc breaks all round
-B&M Mega shifter kit for transmission to help keep shifting of the 350HP engine smooth
-Plenty of lights pointing all around the jeep including rock lights located under the jeep to help spot potential hazards.
-5 point racing seat with harnesses (for the two front seats)
-Race approved front windows (Made of durable 4" thick lexan glass)
Many more modifications done to the Jeep.

This is my 1st jeep to date, other thing I would outfit this jeep with would be:
-Central air system (Like the one equipped on the Military hummers.
-Some defensive counter measures such as, Tire Spikes, Smoke, and a flame thrower kit (Plumbed through your fuel system) and oil slick kit.
-Better Map software so your route could be changed via the push of a button, maybe a CCTV system hooked up to the lap-top to better monitor your pursuers while keeping your eyes on the road
-Rear mounted winch

Base-1998 Jeep TJ
http://i1.tinypic.com/1zxqgiw.jpg
-2.5L with a Turbo charger (Taken from a K-Car, parts fabricated and installed by myself)
-250HP and 300 foot pounds of torque
-9 1/2" of lift Via 6 1/2" Fab-Tec long arm kit and 3" Body lift with a total of 13" of lift with rubber
-*Note the 38" Kevlar run-flats on 24 bolt bead lockers
-On-Board air (Built by myself with the use of a York air conditioner from a big rig)
-On-Board welder (Built by myself with the use of an alternator, booster cables and welding rods)
-On-Board Lap-Top GPS
Custom Fabricated front winch bumper with radiator guard & Rear bumper with tire carrier (Fabricated and welded by myself)
Complete set of under body amour to protect vitals (Radiator, engine pan, differentials, transmission, and driveline components) & Steering stabilizer.
-Full Roll cage
-2 Septer fuel cells (Installed in the rear cargo area of the jeep under a false floor)
-Atlas II transfer case Dana 44 front & Ford 9" rear end shortened 2"
Custom snorkel raised into the interior compartment to suck air via the glove box
-Lexan Race windshield
-Custom communication Sound bar
-10" bear racing disc breaks all round
-B&M Short through shifter with a center force duel friction racing clutch
Many more minor modifications done to the Jeep

Other modifications I'd do to make this the "Ultimate Get-A-Way Vehicle" would be:
Pretty much the same as the last jeep
-Central air system (Like the one equipped on the Military hummers.
-Some defensive counter measures such as, Tire Spikes, Smoke, and a flame thrower kit (Plumbed through your fuel system) and oil slick kit.
-Better Map software so your route could be changed via the push of a button, maybe a CCTV system hooked up to the lap-top to better monitor your pursuers while keeping your eyes on the road
-4.0L Stroker for the extra horse power and torque
-Hi-rise Snorkel to the roof to cross even deeper water
-2 1/2 ton rock well axles and 44" Kevlar run-flats
-Rear mounted winch
-NP205 transfer case stack for higher range gearing as well

This is my idea of the "Ultimate Get-A-Way Vehicle"! It can go anywhere and do almost anything. If I can’t go through it, around it or crawl over it, I wouldn't hesitate to drag myself over it Via the winch. The two Jeeps have gobs of horse power & torque which easily turn the 38" Kevlar run-flat meats, the Atlas II provides a insane low range that can make the jeep literally crawl over anything in it's path.

There is so much body amour on the jeeps, I can ram a car out of my way with out doing any damage to the radiator or other steering components (I have tested the strength of my bumpers on many rocks and trees while out wheeling) I can high center the jeeps with no worries of damaging engine, tranny, transfer case and driveline components. The jeeps have the fuel contained is special racing cells so no worries of damaging the fuel tank on rocks or being shot out. The Jeeps can travel at highway speeds and reach 150KM with no bad handling, and can go through fields at speeds of up to 100Kms and still handle like it was on road. On harder off road conditions I can crawl through just about anything mother nature can through at me. Handles great in summer & winter with icy roads.

If I were to choose one of the Jeeps as a get-a-way vehicle I'd go with the 1998 Cherokee sport since it has way more HP and torque, more room, and handles much nicer at highway spends than the shorter wheel base TJ, but what you get with one you give up with the other. The shorter wheel base is much better for maneuverability off road and can squeeze through just about anywhere compared to the full size jeep.

rsx914

July 15th, 2006, 01:37 PM

I would have to say, Dank$aVegas, that I agreed with your choice of a 4 door 1998 Jeep Cherokee 4.0L as an escape vehicle in 1998. It worked very well. I did not equip it with the plethora of aftermarket tools as you have yours for the simple reason that it was not mine. It was stone stock and I torched it with 10 gallons of gasoline residing in two plastic five gallon containers behind the back seat when I was done with it.

That particular vehicle blended in nicely with the area it was used in. I chose a white one after observing white was a common color for them. The automatic transmission was superior to the manual in that it allowed me to concentrate on the task at hand easier than a manual, although in day to day life I prefer a manual in most vehicles.

Plates were stolen and disposed of in a dumpster far from where the Jeep was torched. Speaking of that; I had to give the disposal of the vehicle quite a bit of thought. Since I was alone I had to think of a way to get the Jeep to a location far from my home and place of employment, burn it, and then get back. I'm in good shape, but I didn't want to arouse suspicion either by walking or running along the highway. So I threw my mountain bike in the back and rode home on hiking trails.

Why, you may ask, did I not just burn it anywhere convenient? Well, car fires draw a lot of attention. The smoke can be seen for miles. And I figured a bit of rain and rust after the fact couldn't hurt. I returned (stupid, I know) a couple weeks later and was pleased with the outcome. A couple months after that I saw that the hulk was gone. I assume it is evidence, but nothing on it or in it at this point can lead to me.

I would beg to differ with you as far as "tricking out" an escape vehicle goes. Your Jeep may indeed be more capable than most if not all other Jeeps, but can you afford the loss of your investment? Can you be traced to it in the event of Police recovery? I made no modifications other than a change of plates. All of my tools, including a Police scanner, were handheld and in a duffle.

Also, I did not "speed away" at the critical moment. At one time I even came to a four way intersection at the same time as a patrol officer. I did see him flip a "u"ey in my rear view mirror about three blocks after passing him, but I evaded the possibility of a confrontation with a few direction changes, double backs, and my favorite method of eluding an officer, hiding in plain sight. Using a plain vanilla vehicle, maintaining a normal appearance (ie: no Bo Bice hair) and acting like all is normal and it's a nice day to be driving around works great.

Dank$taVegas

July 16th, 2006, 05:24 PM

and I torched it with 10 gallons of gasoline
Not very wise on your part to be openly bragging about committing a crime. :rolleyes:

I did not equip it with the plethora of aftermarket tools as you have
The man is only as good as his tools he uses, and a poor choice of a tool will be his demise.

but can you afford the loss of your investment?
Sure why not, that's what I build them for, to thrash and beat to the ground! Last summer I totaled a 98" TJ that took a back flip down a very steep hill, gas tank ruptured and the leak touched the catalytic converter and burst into flames (Me and the spotter made it out of the whole ordeal fine). Not too much was left of the jeep after that, being out in the middle of no where the little dinky fire extinguisher I carry did didily squat to help save the Jeep. I managed to salvage axles, tranny, t-case and a few other drive train components to put on another 98' TJ build up (current jeep). That is why I now use Racing fuel cells & scrap the factory steel gas tanks. ;)

Can you be traced to it in the event of Police recovery?
The jeeps in the picture I sure could, but if I was planning on doing something that would require a get-a-way-vehicle I would not use something that could be traced back to me, I would be sure to acquire another jeep that couldn't be traced to me (Private sale through the bargain finder/auto trader) & trick it out with a few simple mods in the garage. Find another similar jeep (Same color, year etc) grab the tags and use them.

This is assuming I would need something to insure my get-a-way/freedom, to me the price of freedom is well worth the $$ spent on making a reliable, worthy tool like this. A jeep built like this will give you extra piece of mind when running from your pursuer. All key components of the vehicle are protected in one way or another (i.e. You don't have to worry about smashing up your radiator or drive train components & having your tires shot or blown out. The lugs on my rubber of choice are 2 1/2" and are very hard; puncture resistant). Where as a normal jeep you don't have the luxury of having a decent bull bar, with adequate radiator support, your tires are usually street rubber which leave much to be desired from.

I was just using my own personal Jeeps as a display tool, to help give the readers a better concept of my idea/design.

Jacks Complete

July 20th, 2006, 06:11 PM

I've got to say that a car really isn't ideal for escape and evasion in the UK. The cops see it every day, and catch 95% of them without trouble using the helicopter if it even comes to that.

The porsche that is mentioned above out-enduranced the force helicopter, after it out-ran the cop cars. Turned out the German driver didn't even realise he was being persued until he got stopped, and he only beat the helicopter due to it being towards the end of a flight and only having an hour of fuel left. The big turbine engined police helicopter here is capable of plenty more than the cars are on the roads we have. And they have a spotter plane. See http://www.freefoto.com/browse.jsp?id=28-07-0 for photos of both.

In an urban place like the UK, there will be 5 cop cars/riot vans on you in a very short time. Plate recognition gear will, combined with CCTV networks that cover a huge area, track you easily. One gang stole a car and were picked up by police less than ten minutes after they got it back to where they had left it ready for use the following day for an armed robbery. The camera operatoir spotted it being stolen, then they tracked it all the way, even following the men from the car to the door of the house they were at.

I'd have to say that a motorbike has got to be the way forward in the UK. A small one, so you can use alleyways and ginnels and footpaths. You want something the size of a child's off-roader to get under the anti-bike fences, and that you can throw around a bit, with "urban" tyres - the ones that are ok on the road, but ok off the road too. Learn to handle it well. You can then go where the police aren't able to without trouble. Cut across a park, or whatever, and the fast pursuit cars can't follow, go down an alley and only foot or bike police can follow, go down a path with an anti-bike device and the cops on motorbikes can't follow, and you can outrun the ones on bicycles.

Then the helicopter is the only thing you will have to worry about. As well as being rammed...

Once you are a bit ahead, you can ditch the bike, jamming the throttle on, change your top, and walk away. Then you become yet another hoodie wearing thug-wannabe who can't be ID'd.

Only in a JEEP!I'm fairly sure that a motocross bike would be able to stroll that terrain in your pictures, Dank$ta.

Dank$taVegas

July 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM

I've got to say that a car really isn't ideal for escape and evasion in the UK. The cops see it every day, and catch 95% of them without trouble using the helicopter if it even comes to that.
Well I guess the best escape vehicle all depends on where you will be escaping from and what you will be escaping from.

My idea of the Jeep, applies to where I live, since I see more fields, Un-paved gravel roads, chewed up logging roads, bog pits, swamps and muskeg swamp than I see paved roads. So if being chased by the RCMP's just lock her in the desired setting of 4wd for the driving conditions and lose that piggy! Closest police chopper Hawk 1 would take far to long to get involved in the chase, so the ditching of the get-a-way vehicle in some remote wilderness and escaping on foot is doable. The RCMP's do have some 4x4's mostly big suburbans, with little or no lift, that will not be able to handle like a highly modified off road rig, and their tires are not worthy of the conditions of the area.

In an urban place like the UK, there will be 5 cop cars/riot vans on you in a very short time.
So if they are involved in a high speed chase through a urban area where the driver of the car is running red lights & stop signs, are they still allowed to pursue?

Here in Canada (Alberta/BC) they have certain rules to follow, if a driver of a car they are chasing, is trying to evade them and is driving reckless, running red lights, running stop signs & going down one ways (He is being a current danger to the public due to the chase). They have to break off the ground chase and call in for air support. Even if that means that the person gets away.

This all came about, sometime back in 2002, when the police (where I use to live) were involved in a high speed chase of a stolen car. The chase exceeded speeds of 140KM in residential areas (Schools, Play ground zones) when school was getting out, running red lights and stop signs. The chase finally ended when the fleeing car ran a red light a t-boned a car, killing the whole family. After that incident the methods use by the police were rethought since they ended up catching the brunt of the shit, since the family died & the two teen car thefts died in the chase.

I'd have to say that a motorbike has got to be the way forward in the UK
That would also be a nice means of escape! Sounds like a mini bike would do the trick in the UK, here, I'd have to say a nice Street bike possibly a CBR, they handle very nice, have gobs of power and can reach speeds in a matter of seconds! I don't think too many chopper would be able to keep up with a nice street bike going all out!
But then again, you don't have too much protection, sitting on a rocket like that!

I'm fairly sure that a motocross bike would be able to stroll that terrain in your pictures, Dank$ta.
I'm sure it could, hell I could even take a stock jeep or other 4x4 through that picture. That was just some pic of me trying and testing out the new hacked out fenders to give more clearance for the rubber. I mean major cut out fenders I took 4 inch's off the front and 3 1/2 off the rear with a sawzall :D Where the jeep really shines is on the rocks, swamps (Bog pits & Muskeg swamps), deep snow and mud. These places you don't see Bikes, Quads or too many 4x4s. When you start going through swamps where the water is coming in the interior and the mud is as thick as molasses or going across bog pits where the 38" rubber is run at 2PSI to help spread the foot print of you rubber to help you float across the bottomless pit of mud you won't be taking a bike through there, Oh and going through 4-6 feet of snow wouldn't be too much fun on a bike.

So you are kind of right the bike can go most places but still not everywhere, Hence Only in a JEEP;)

nbk2000

July 22nd, 2006, 05:09 AM

Ever seen a snowmobile hydroplane across a glacier lake at 100MPH?

How about a bogmobile climb up a 75° incline of loose dirt, to shoot up over the lip onto flat ground 100' feet above where it started?

Neither of these are common, but no cop would be able to follow you either, unless he's flying. ;)

What's really needed is someway of dealing with the piggy (and news) helicopters, since they're the worst threat.

Dank$taVegas

July 22nd, 2006, 08:20 PM

Ever seen a snowmobile hydroplane across a glacier lake at 100MPH?
Every May long weekend, the beginning of the mountain melt off when the bog pits and muskeg swamps are at their prime, a group called the "Boggin Freaks" comes equipped with their mini-monster trucks & snowmobiles that they trailer in to the off road park to entertain the crowds at Johnson Bog in Alberta and the Postal Pit in B.C. By having head to head races back and forth across the bottom less pit of mud and water! The people on the snowmobiles stay very clean I have to add, they shoot from one side to the other which is about 1km wide.
Some awesom videos here:
http://www.whiteknight.ca/2002VIDEOCLIPS.htm

How about a bogmobile climb up a 75° incline of loose dirt, to shoot up over the lip onto flat ground 100' feet above where it started?
Ahh, we get a lot of crazy equipped hill climbing, dune hopping rigs out here! The gravel pit is a fun place to watch these rigs assault hill climbs.

I tried assault a hill with 75° incline or better. I think it was much better the 75° thought. Locked the jeep's front and rear lockers shifted the Atlas II in low, and assaulted the hill. Instead of shooting up over the lip on to flat ground, the jeep decided to do a back flip down the hill (Hell I didn't even make it half way to the lip of the hill). The hill is used by hill climbing dirt bikes, with extended frames and gob of power with paddle rear tires to chew their way up. That's what peer pressure, a heavy right foot and all throttle will do :o . The jeep ruptured its gas tank on it's way down and burst into flames. My welding job on the custom roll bar held up very well for the beating that it took on the way down!

What's really needed is someway of dealing with the piggy (and news) helicopters, since they're the worst threat.
Now helicopters I don't have too much knowledge about, but I'm assuming that Police choppers aren't as heavily armored as military ones would be, since the idea of a police chopper is not for battle but as a eye in the sky.

So maybe the use of a high powered gun and a few well placed shots would do the trick. From just thinking a bit, the rudder on a helicopter would be a weak link, a few well placed shots into the rudder blades could do some serious damage. I guess this all depend on the altitude the chopper is flying at.
Another weak link that comes to mind would be the fuel tank/supply, although I'm un a where of where this would be located on a chopper.

Depending if the chopper has bullet resistant glass, one could try shooting at the cockpit area.

A nice high power rife and scope could prove it's worth in gold!

But besides this, the only other ideas that come to mind would be some type of home made rocket launcher one would bring with him, if he expects to encounter a chopper.

john_smith

July 23rd, 2006, 11:32 AM

Well placed = almost impossible if the copter is flying at any reasonable speed, the military always emphasizes volume of fire over accuracy as far as small arms vs aircraft goes. A quad rig of syncronized, electronically triggered 308's in a pickup bed perhaps:D A bit over the top of course, but would you imagine if someone actually pulled it off?:eek:

As for the rocket launcher, an unguided rocket won't hit a moving helo unless you get really really lucky (think Black Hawk Down), but it would scare the living shit out of the typical police pilots and quite likely make them break off pursuit.

Btw getaway vehicles, the large multi-cylinder enduros (Triumph Tiger etc) are often said to be the best bikes for running from cops, being that they accelerate almost as fast as sportbikes on open road, yet can hop curbs and go up/down stairs and through typical urban parks and woodlots as well.

Jacks Complete

July 23rd, 2006, 02:03 PM

They wouldn't break off pursuit, they would simply climb and/or retreat, keeping you under high power lens video surveil until they could get ground units on you.

Hitting a chopper with a gun is not easy. You would need to laser range it to get a distance before you even started guessing how far away it was, and hitting a specific place on the chopper is not going to be possible, unless you've a .50 or something, with a static firing platform and optics. Even then, you would be guessing for wind and target relative movement, as well as the angles being up in the sky, unlike at the range... It's hard enough hitting a clay from 30 yards with a shotgun!

You would need to either go after the chopper on the ground, and stop it that way (not easy, as the sites are generally non-military but well secured places, and even bog basic airfields in the UK now have a guard and a security fence to stop hijackers from stealing grass from the empty field!) but that tips off the cops that something is happening unless you are subtle (one gang tried and failed, as the helo that was grounded was simply replaced by the next forces' as they guessed something big was going to happen), or the other idea is to buy/steal/make a guided missile - and that's probably not going to happen.

Any other ideas, I'm all ears.

Cancer

July 23rd, 2006, 02:26 PM

I had a 1991 (or '90) Chevy Lumina Euro Sport 3.1. It sounds fancy, but was basically just a piece of shit car I picked up used for about $3000. For being what it was, the car could take an unbelievable amount of damage. I drove it for four years with no maintenance (aside from oil changes) and had no problems out of it. Several times I accidentally ended up off-roading with it and found it still reliable and sound.

What I thought was impressive was when I entered it into a tough truck contest and was able to drive it home that night. The only damage it took was off a five foot jump when it nose dived and bent the radiator. It would overheat from time to time after that, but was otherwise fine.

Dank$taVegas

July 23rd, 2006, 05:11 PM

It's hard enough hitting a clay from 30 yards with a shotgun!
Very true! I should have thought a little harder before posting that. Not a very logical idea. But depending on how low the chopper is flying one could use small arms fire to make the chopper back off. But all this would really accomplish is to make the chopper climb altitude to get out of range of you fire.

The only other idea a more logical one might be to out last the chopper. Bikes get pretty good MPG/KML, Depending on how long a chopper can stay airborne (I'm not sure) you could try to out last him. They would more then likely try to coordinate the ground crews to pick up the chase when they need to brake off due to fuel reasons. But I'm guess's where other people live the police have more than one chopper (here where I live the closest city only has one), even if you were able to out last the police chopper, there maybe a news chopper involved in the chase filming the whole thing.

But again, choppers do not fly all day, they usually have a patrol that they are set out to follow, mostly at night and early mornings. Unless they receive a call for air support (as they are on call 24/7). So it will take a few minutes to ready the chopper and crew, launch the chopper and head to the area. This will allow the escapee precious minutes to elude the ground crews and make good his escape before the chopper can get involved. One would need to figure out exact patrol times, when the chopper is usually launched and when it usually returns.

This information could be gathered over a 1-2 week span by scouting the launch area and logging in a book the times it leaves, how long it is up in the air for before returning to be refueled. That time (when it returns) would be the best time to strike, since the chopper would be low on fuel and has to land and fill up before being able to get airborne. Giving the escapee extra time to lose the ground crews.

or the other idea is to buy/steal/make a guided missile - and that's probably not going to happen.
That's not a very doable idea for the average person.

You would need to either go after the chopper on the ground,
The police chopper where I live is launched from the local air-port in a special section of the tarmac. Getting access to this would be very difficult, and would certainly take a well equipped team to gain access to the site using firepower.

Anyone else have any ideas or thoughts on getting rid or losing a chopper?

defiant

July 24th, 2006, 01:45 AM

The trick to shooting down a helicopter is practice.

Take Vietnam. Initially the Viet Cong were terrified of helicopters and allowed the copters to heard them into open fields for the slaughter. After a number of such engagements, military advisors came along who tought them how to entrench themselves, stand firm, and lead a target when it was within range. A turning points in the "police action" was the Vietnamese learning how to shoot down copters, and engagement (the name of which I can't remember at the moment) where the Viet Cong shot down three out of five helos.

At the time the Vietcong were not armed by the North or by the Chinese, but were using ancient single shot Brownings appropriated from the French. A .50 caliber is more practicable, albeit less sportsmanlike, and a full auto .50 is recomended if you've got someone to lug the ammo around for you. A lesser caliber will do, but its essential to know what the weapon is capable of in terms of range and penetration.

The same is true of the RPG. Training and experience makes the master. Unfortunately there isn't an RPG (in the modern sense of the term or that I'm aware of) that's fully automatic.

bipolar

July 24th, 2006, 03:32 AM

I think the key to having a successful evasion is having some kind of plan.

Know in advance a few points where you will try to go in your Area of Operations.

Identify all ovehead cover like bridges, trees, etc. The faster you end the chase, the better chance you have at survival.

Depending on your situation eluding, and evading is a better course than trying to destroy everything and use force.

Have pre-positioned caches of supplies in all possible areas of escape. Containing cheap or disposable weapons, small ammount of food or water, other supplies.

Countermeasures such as visual obscurants(smoke grenades, fog generator)
For fog generator I have seen a patent for a vehicle fog generator. It uses a fuel pump to pump mineral oil based fog solution into the exhaust manifold(at the front of the vehicle where it reaches higher temps) using a spray nozzle.

I have read in military literature that you can add graphite powder to the mineral oil to also make it a Thermal IR obscurant also. Add oil based dyes for colors.

For night time driving mount a 12v super bright spotlight in the rear window of your car facing back. Activated by a button on the dash. Activated right before a sharp turn at night to lose following cars.

Also some spotlights on the front of your car for high speed night driving seeing far enough ahead of you.

Another idea is flash bangs covertly mounted on your bumper, electronicly activated.

Supposing you are not wanted, but get pulled over by an Authority. If only eluding and evading, without commiting any other crimes, you may be able to get away and dispose of your vehicle and never think about it again. There won't be a giant manhunt for you because you didn't kill anyone or commit any other crimes. This assuming you don't have plates linked to your current address.

If it's an all or nothing scenario, what about the idea of putting mini EFP or platter charges(2"-3" in diameter) Surrounded in pummice and/or perlite blast absorbing material.

This to avoid damage to you and your car(at least enough to keep the car running) and avoid detonating other charges. Some how mount this in the rear of the vehicle. Hidden almost manufactured into the car in the bumper or trunk. Could be hidden in a speaker system or something in the trunk. Before firing, pop the trunk and have bungee cords or rope to keep the trunk from opening all the way.

It is true about taking down a helicopter. It is very possible with small arms and practice. I've read it's good to use tracers, especially APIT tracers. This lets you with a few shots see how far ahead see where your shots are going in comparison with where the helicopter is so you can make adjustments each shot. You will have to aim ahead of where it is going.

Another thing to think about is a helment with polycarbonate face sheild or goggles.

You should learn to do maneuvers in your vehicle such as J-Turns or S-Turns. I don't think its possible or a good idea in trucks or SUV's. You may have to put a piece of rubber hose in the Emergency Brake release(for foot peddle type) or tape around the e-brake release(hand type) so it doesn't catch every time you use it for special maneuvers.

Overall you need to plan to end it fast. These chases that go on and on... never succeed. They end up with tons of helicopters, cops, and broadcast on live TV.

Jacks Complete

July 24th, 2006, 06:16 PM

Dank$ta, thanks for re-stating my post...

As far as shooting one down, the reason a squad of Viet Cong could do it is tatics and numbers. They all waited and then fired according to a simple counting formula. Because there were 30 of them at least, odds were for them hitting something, even with single shots (and you need a pretty high RoF to get enough lead somewhere to do anything. It's not going to happen, unless you are running for your life, since the cops are then going to snipe you or ram you first chance they get, as you as now lethally armed and dangerous, rather than a drunk driver. Factor in also that you are trying to drive whilst doing this!

If you had covered over storm drains, you might be able to use those. Interconnected tunnels that are quite long might also work, but the ends need to be far apart, and more than three, or they will be closed off fast, especially if something serious has gone down.

Whilst driving the lanes in the UK, the police cars all have numbers on the roof, for ID from the air. I've heard/seen them chasing a car down, and the chase car always keeps up easily due to the air support telling them the state of the road beyond, which ensures they need not worry about oncoming tractors, etc. They then close off the road ahead, and that's that.

I did see a cop show one time where the Range Rover that was used for ram raiding turned right into a field. The cop cars couldn't follow (as this was a few years ago and none were 4x4, which many are now) but they simply fenced the road each side of the car as it crashed through ditches, fences, etc. trying to get away. The air support simply told them which way to go, and they were caught eventually. You can see them in the video getting desperate, as they come through a hedge, and turn onto the road, then see the road block in front, then turn onto the next field, and so on.

I've also seen chases where vans full of stolen goods have been emptied at the poice cars, but they simply drop back and dodge them, and keep up the pursuit. This is generally on a wide road, of course., where they are trying to outrun pursuit cars.

What I have never seen is someone doing both together. Block the (narrow lane) road with the stolen TV, then go around a corner and fuck off over a field. It wouldn't lose the air support unless you found a big thick wood to hide in (and the ground units would find you after a while, with dogs if need be) and it would be a one shot, but if push came to shove, it might be worth a try.

Oh, and if you want some basic car mod's, take a look at Paladin's Rolling Thunder (on the FTP) for ideas. Only use them as a basic, though, as most are prone to failure.

Dank$taVegas

July 24th, 2006, 07:20 PM

What I thought was impressive was when I entered it into a tough truck contest and was able to drive it home that night.

Must not have been too tough of a tough truck contest. I have entered many jeeps in theses contest's and the majority of these contests have obstacles such as the (Tank Trap, Log Pond, Frame Twister, Hill climbs, Rock Crawling etc) and they get their names for a good reason! None of the challenges I have been to would a car ever make it half way into the staging ground. that is where the rigs are towed to on trailers before being unloaded and running the circuit, let alone be able to run any of the obstacles. Well with the exception of the 79' trans am I once saw, completely modified with 44" Boggers and 4wd with Hydraulic front & rear steering capabilities (But that's not really a car is it).

The only damage it took was off a five foot jump when it nose dived and bent the radiator
Even I limit my air time in the jeep, since it's not build like a pre-runner and the frame is the weakest link if not properly reinforced! I have seen many a rig, snap the frame in two doing little jumps of ledges less than 5 feet!

defiant

July 25th, 2006, 01:08 AM

Jacks Complete: My discussion about shooting down helos is based on the book "A Bright Shining Lie" - as well as discussions with numerous Vietnam Vets.

I admit that fire from multiple sources increases the odds, but that wasn't the situation in the earlier days of US involvement. The Viet Cong didn't have adequate resources in those days, and weapons with enough range to down helos were not in abundant supply. The N. Vietnamese had internal problems, and consequently did not support a S. Vietnam insurgency that had no foreseeable chances of winning. At the time China too was non-comittal.

The reversal was tactics. The Vietnamese dug holes straight down from which they operated from. If macjine gun fire approached their cover they'd duck down. A bomb dropped directly on top of the hole was the only defense/offense, and that was a near impossibility.

Beforehand I was discussing only the ability to take out helos - and not emphasizing taking them out from a moving vehicle.

If there was a planned op involving a vehicle and the anticipated need to take out a helo, the approach would obviously differ.

One approach would be to anticipate a helo's response time. Knowing the escape route of the vehicle, "sentries" could take up positions to take out the copter. If assets were limitted or otherwise didn't allow for this type of engagement, a car could be stashed in an underground garage. The idea is to drive the escape vehicle into the underground garage - where it's swapped for vehicle two (which is a different color/make). Obviously those in the helo can't observe what's going on underground, giving the target vehicle (occupants) the opportunity to escape.

Circumstances vary, and plans should be adapted accordingly.

festergrump

July 25th, 2006, 09:34 AM

Large airports like LAX, Ohare, Laguardia, ect. are 'No Fly Zones' for helicopters, IIRC. Providing you can first lose the ground units you should be able to boost a different make/model/color car there and drive out with the regular flow of traffic.

rsx914

July 25th, 2006, 05:16 PM

I would not even try to engage a helicopter. I wouldn't even want to engage the police. Let's assume you are, oh, I don't know, going to knock off an armored car. Focusing just on the exit strategy, you know you have a limited amount of time to get away before you're behind the eight ball. Assume there are witnesses. Assume they saw which direction you went. Assume they got a make on your vehicle and tag number. Assume they know everything. You have had weeks to plan this out and you better know exactly what you will do.

Leave the area in the direction least likely to be obstructed, ie: right turn, no stop signs, less traffic. Turn right once out of sight of the witnesses. Proceed straight again until out of sight of that first right turn and turn right again. Go straight, and by this time you should bring your speed back within legal limits, until you reach a predetermined locale in which you can park, sometimes within sight of the origination point, in an apartment complex parking lot for example. Back into the space and change plates. Change clothes. At this point you could change vehicles, or simply wait. If you're really cheeky you can use a spotter's scope and watch your rivals, or take their picture so you know who you're up against. When the fuss dies down (usually within six hours) and it's dark leave and go hide the vehicle until you can dispose of it.

I didn't like they way they portrayed that heist in Heat because I don't think the van would have burned completely before the fire truck arrived and maybe preserved some evedence. Besides the rediculous idea that a tow truck could tip an armored truck over. The timer on the gas bomb wasn't even necessary. Hollywood.

Plan it all out. Go through a trial run. Time yourself. If it doesn't look good, walk away. They only catch 10%.

dana_m_h

July 25th, 2006, 11:55 PM

i heard stories about a theif that had a super-kart that evaded the police for weeks before being caught.....a super-kart is the difference between an F-1 supercar and a gokart.... http://www.superkart.org.uk/
that should be a link

0 - 60mph in 3.5 secs
150+mph top speed
80+bhp & 120kgs
nearly 3 g's in a turn!!!!!!!!

Dem pigs aint gonna dun spot me!!!!

only problem.... very suspicious.... if you just want to fit in...

less $$$$ in those than most daily driven cars.... used $1000-$2000

Jacks Complete

July 26th, 2006, 06:02 AM

Not much luggage space in there... however, it would be good for a back-up trick in a town center. Leave one parked somewhere as a fallback plan, somewhere covered over with lots of exits, like a multistory. Get in on foot whilst in hot pursuit, then disappear on that, heading through pedestrian areas, under locked barriers, bypassing those poles that slide down to let buses past, etc. until you are away. No exactly subtle, but far far better than being on foot.

dana_m_h

July 26th, 2006, 06:42 PM

It is probably better than being in any other type of car too for urban high speed persuits. You could probably outfit it with a small amount of bond gizmos............. like ......a ball bearing dispenser that dumps a coffee can full of BBs on the road behind you ..... do it before a turn and the piggies wont be able to follow

Another fun thing would be the typical oil slick dispenser.... or while we are Bond...... a flamethrower! to get some good bacon, babyback ribs, ham, and some pork rinds while we are bar-be-queing.

Sorry for going all out like that ... I am hungry.

Cobalt.45

July 26th, 2006, 10:06 PM

I would try for a diversion tactic. A stolen LPG delivery truck, or the like, parked in a conspicuous place. Rigged either remotely or by timer with thermite and/ or massive smoke generating device. The cop(ter) would have to make a choice- dull, boring little you, or...

rsx914

July 27th, 2006, 02:41 PM

I would try for a diversion tactic.

Tried that, not an LPG truck though, but a diversion. It works. Although the sherriff was on the 5 o'clock news saying it didn't. It's hard to do alone, but it's possible.

I like your idea Cobalt.45. Would it have to be an entire truck? Because the logistics of arranging for a certain truck to be at a certain place at a certain time could be a headache. How about a 50 gallon lpg tank in a stolen Escort? Or whatever there's lots of in the area. I'm not into killing innocent bystanders either, though so the placement would take some thought.

nbk2000

August 1st, 2006, 05:56 AM

Having recently watched several hundred videos of fights, of which numerous ones take place in or around cars, I've noticed a common occurance of an attacker reaching in through a window (rolled down or broken) to either strike the occupant, or unlock the door and drag 'em out.

This can be addressed by a few simple measures.

1) Install netting over the windows and windshields, on the interior, of course.

The netting isn't the type you see in the NASCAR racers, but a net made from very fine kevlar line, like Spiderwire fishing line. 100lb line of this stuff is thinner than dental floss, and nearly impossible to break by hand.

The netting is about 2" apart, and a dark green, so it's very nearly invisible, especially at night.

So now you can have your windows rolled down and know that anyone trying to suckerpunch you is going to fail in a painful manner. :p

Throwing bottles and rocks won't work, and stricking with bats and sticks won't work either.

Only spearing movements with a rod or pole would get through the netting. Hopefully you're not going to hang around long enough for them to figure that out and implement it.

2) Replace the OEM doorlocks with ones that can only be operated by foot, on the floor by the pedals, rather than in the door where everyone knows where they're at.

If someone wants to open the door of your car, so they can drag you out, they already know where to reach, as every car is built the same.

Confound them by making the normal door locks useless. :)

The unlocking mechanism for electric door locks is a switch, and switchs can be installed anywhere, so do so.

Take a lesson from the cops...rear doors don't need interior releases.

3) Get your car windows laminated with shatter-resistant film, so ding-dongs can't break them out in the first place.

Dank$taVegas

August 10th, 2006, 01:36 PM

I was reading a book about the mob, and came across a brief mention that talked about a hit man named by "Milwaukee Phil" the one who was credited with designing what some people labeled as the "Hitmobile". It is said to have been equipped with all the necessities for the commission of efficient homicide. The vehicle was fitted with such devices as switches, that would turn the front & rear lights on/off to confuse police tailors, a secret compartment in the backrest Carried an array of lethal weapons, and it also contained a device that could clamp and anchor down rifles & shotguns to make shooting & aiming steady while the car was moving.

I was wondering if anyone had any more information about this so called "Hitmobile" that they could add to this. I have been searching the net with no luck as of yet, but I'll keep trying.

Jacks Complete

August 11th, 2006, 07:46 PM

I thought of something neat, get a strap and anchor the nose of your Uzi or Mac down, so you can empty the magazine without muzzle climb for your drive-by. Easier than a gun emplacement or point that you would have to explain.

nbk2000

August 12th, 2006, 06:13 AM

A plexiglass replacement window with a hole just big enough for the muzzle to fit out of would be great.

Assuming a closed bolt action, almost all the noise would outside of the vehicle, the weapon held down, and with all the brass contained within (no shell casings for forensic piggies to find. :p).

anonymous411

August 20th, 2006, 10:59 AM

I once heard a story from a patrolman about a fugitive's crappy old beat-up car that had a very special modification under the driver-side door...a springloaded machete. The theory being theat some unfortunate pork comes over for a routine traffic stop and WHAM!!! there goes his feet at the ankles. :)

panchovilla

September 13th, 2006, 03:28 PM

I once use to move things in my car that made getting pulled over a high risk, so I started carrying a small 1.5 gallon tank of gas in side the car in case I had to set the car on fire.

I still remember that troopers face as he ran to the back of his car to get his fire extinguisher. Arson has a shorter jail time than possession of ???

Since I am a dreaded noob, I would like to say "hello to all".

++++

Notice the changes made to your post. Grammar and using I when referring to yourself is MANDATORY here. NBK

c.Tech

September 14th, 2006, 06:47 AM

I'm still laughing at a vision of you tipping the petrol in your car and lighting it in front of a cop. :D You did well.

I'm assuming that you had a commercial quantity of drugs or a dead body in your car.

Did you loose any money out of your arson aside from the car?

panchovilla

September 14th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Sausagemit

September 14th, 2006, 09:58 PM

If I was ever to get into an off-road chase my choice in vehicle would have to be a Bowler Wildcat. Those things are absolutely insane and street legal (in the UK at least).

http://www.bowler-offroad.com/NAV1.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARcRHKosQoo

As for a paved road chase, I would have nothing less than my BMW even though I'm not done with it yet. I know it will be very fast and very capable. Although it will not be street legal and thus not registerable but it will only be driven on the road if absolutely necessary. Most of the driving time it will see will be at the local auto-x or scca event. And most likely if I need to do something bad with it will not be local.

It will be completely debadged, shaved door handles (how are the assailants going to open the door when they can't find the door handle), no chrome, painted in flat black, flat smoked lights, dark tint on the windows, complete roll cage, and all sorts of other goodies.

And with it being debadged and with it being a car produced from 1984 all the way until 1992 with no major design changes I believe I could get away with some completely bogus plates. And it being a very popular model of BMW (e30) I doubt they could even start to look.

As for bond-esqe gadgets: A jellied gasoline sprayer with at least a 10 gallon tank, enough to coat there wheel wells and the entire front of a couple of cars if necessary would be preferable. And it would have two modes: spray it in a fine mist into the air, and empty the god damn tank on the ground. And it would need some sort of ignition system.

I'm thinking a bunch of roman candle like items would work perfectly and could be produced fairly cheaply. Basically take a bunch of roman candles apart, insert the balls minus the separation packing into a pipe, electric ignition, and you have a rapid-fire roman candle. Make about 30 of these, wire each one individually and you’re set.

Ignition at the source would not be preferable because of the turbulence at the back of the car causing a flaming mess and possibly destroying the car. You would want to have the ignition system on the bottom of the car and the other stuff up near the trunk lid for safety.

And a crappy pic of my BMW
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/sausagemit/Car%20Pics/04-12-06_0958-1.jpg

Sausagemit

September 15th, 2006, 01:20 AM

http://www.torquenstein.net/technology.htm

This guy has some good ideas and some proven techniques.

nbk2000

December 29th, 2006, 10:46 AM

Here's something that makes tire spike strips impotent! :p

http://www.gizmag.com/picture.php?s=14&p=3603_31080614917.jpg

http://www.gizmag.com/go/3603/

c.Tech

January 14th, 2007, 06:07 AM

Reading the “stop stick” thread it appears that cars with 0 air pressure are illegal in the UK, this is a law that I’m imagining will happen in other countries. The question is how would the Tweel be able to be kept concealed?

Tweel’s in countries where they’re legal would still cause suspicion being exposed, all the more reason to hide them.

I don’t have tires around at this moment to examine apart from cars on the street so I cant work out how, what do you all think?

knowledgehungry

January 14th, 2007, 02:30 PM

There is nothing suspicious about having a tweel, if you have ever had your tire blow out while driving on a highway, you would be very amenable to the idea of paying much higher prices not to repeat the incident. I know I am.

nbk2000

January 14th, 2007, 06:15 PM

What about taking a regular tire, cutting off the treads, and mounting the sidewalls on the sides of the tweel to hide it?

c.Tech

January 14th, 2007, 10:17 PM

FullMetalJacket

January 15th, 2007, 01:29 AM

Supercharged Leyland P76 with independent suspension (nicked from a junked jag), forged, lightened, mandrel-bent custom built EVERYTHING with big-ass nismo fuel injectors, bosch pump and surge, plus an auxiliary 100-litre tank. Oh, and anything I don't need has been ripped out, and panels up-armoured. Bigger rims, run-flat tyres, satellite phone and internet connection. I want some sort of plow blade on the front. Or spikes.

Match

January 15th, 2007, 08:37 AM

Sounds good nbk, would melting rubber be able to seal the sidewalls to the Tweel treads leaving no visible evidence? If not then maybe leaving a bit of rubber stick out where its been sealed, sand it away then smooth it.

Another problem is to make them look inflated. Maybe pressing the side and coating it with epoxy could solve the problem.

Melt and Sand rubber? lol. :rolleyes:

If you did manage to rubber cement the sidewalls of a tire with a similar inner and outer diameter, you'd also have the problem of balancing the Tweel.

You could possibly fill Tweel with foam, let it harden then shave it till it looked like a nice ballooning tire, then cover it in some thin rubber like that from an inner tube.

This only applies if you did some how manage to acquire a set of tweels as they aren't for sale and I believe Michelin hasn't released any commercial plans for the tweel since they showcased it several years ago.

++++++++++

I'm thinking the best gadget to have on your car would be a device for knocking out that first patrol car that sees you and pulls you over for a matching vehicle description or something like that. Some sort of blinding agent to cover their windshield and a electronic disruptor to cripple their communications. You know, something to knock him out before he makes a positive description and he has a reason to call back up.

Couple that with a powerful smoke generating device and a dual purpose motorcycle mounted in the back and you'd be set. Auxiliary fuel tank on the bike and you could out run even the most equipped of the fuzz.
:cool:

InfernoMDM

January 18th, 2007, 09:11 PM

Tires being part of the suspension system and all wouldn't filling a tweel or any tire for that matter cause your car to get beaten up a lot quicker? That means suspension overhaul at the least.

Also with the comments about a window with a hole in it. If your weapon isn't closed bolt like NBK stated then your going to get overpressure in your car and possibly blow out your own eardrums/ car windows.

As for forensic evidence left at the scene from brass, shooting the weapon 400-600 times will change the weapons characteristics enough. Bullets left at the scene would be just as damning as brass.

I probably hate you

January 23rd, 2007, 08:35 AM

You can buy used armored cars and trucks . There was (or maybe still is) a few on ebay.They wouldnt look suspicious infront of most businesses . Fill the tires with foam (hard to balance) turbo charge the engine (would need better crank and rods beyond about 500-600 hp for sb). It already has your shooting holes (or whatever you call them) if you got some money get a .50bmg they crack an engine block quite easily . Maybe with some big ass magnets you could rig up a irregular shaped explosive that would kinda bounce around and stick to the underbelly of whoever is chasing you . A series of straight firing solid fueled rockets in the front and rear mounted to the underbody in some steel tubes for clearing assholes out of the way (or deer,cats,birds,pedestrians etc..)

Something else would be side mounted flame throwers (I saw them once on tv on the discovery channel some show about armored cars)If there was only one cop just pull over let the fucker run up there screaming at you to get out give him a little smile then roast his ass , blow up his car and drive away.

In reality though an old 4 door beater with minimal elctronics a large trunk and hood for ramming , a v8 ,maybe still try to fill the tires with foam I have seen farmers do it to there equipment , a buddy with a fn fal , and a escape plan with lots of redundancy , one thing I have learned is if something can go wrong it often time does so I always try to have lots of back up options.Maybe a thermite charge to get rid of whatever you are hiding .If you ever did get caught jump out and scream no more anal probes and keep ranting about how you dont want them to take you back to the mother ship if you could keep the up for a while , maybe a few months , you probably would have a short visit to a mental institution and go home .

Alexires

January 24th, 2007, 06:19 AM

Hate to burst your bubble Match, but if you are thinking about outrunning a pig mobile on a motorbike, you're dreaming.

The only use I could see for having a motor bike in a car at your disposal is to change vehicles at a point after the crime.

For example, you steal that bitching ______ (which is small enough to carry in a backpack or less) and you jump in your car (letting it be seen by cops). You then ditch the car at some place and ride your bike outa there.

Of course, to outrun a cop car (on a bike) you either need

a) A really good racing bike (bigger than a 650cc, probably along the lines of a 900cc or a 1000cc) with a full tank of fuel or

b) a lot of traffic ahead of you. This is the only really benefit of a bike. You can lane split. If you don't understand what I'm talking about just imagine riding a motorbike between 2 lanes of parked (or moving) cars.

Otherwise I'd stick with a car. Cars handle better than bikes, go faster (unless its a big bike like a zx9r or a zx12r) and carry more loot than bikes. If its wet, its worse than you can possibly imagine.

Although there are regulations as to how fast cops can go when in pursuit, they tend to judge for themselves. A pig I was talking to said that he had their cop car dialed off the speedometer (above 240km/h or 150 miles per hour) and on a bike that is fast. I've done 170km/h on race tracks and that is just insane. Fuck doing it on a road with trees, wildlife, birds, flies, ANYTHING.

Also remember, outrunning the pursuit is half the battle (if you're too stupid to evade it in the first place). The other half is outrunning the helicopter that they can call in (depending where you are).

While it has its merits Match, there are only very specific times you could ever use a car/bike combo to E&E (escape and evade).

PS. Some vague figures from my own experience.

650cc motorbike will just break 200km/h. Doesn't matter what brand, thats about the best you are going to get. I know cop cars go ALOT faster than that. Unless you are used to riding fast like that, you WILL kill yourself. No if buts or maybes about it. You'd need something like the GSX 1300 (Hayabusa) to even begin thinking about out running cop cars on a straight road (breaks 300km/h).

Just stick with cars.

fiknet

January 24th, 2007, 06:37 AM

Related to what Alexires said, it will be tough to outrun a police on a motorbike unless you are a very skilled rider and riding a top of the line racing bike, like this guy is. :p

http://www.break.com/index/awesome_police_motorbike_chase.html

Just to ask, I haven't really seen anyone get out of the chase scenario because they mainly get choppers tracking you (However I think in that video the bike is capable of out running a chopper ) and many patrol cars covering large areas.

nbk2000

January 24th, 2007, 07:42 AM

Man, that video was fucking AWESOME! :D

Fastest speed I saw was 250 Km/H, which is over 150MPH. :eek:

Rather than limiting yourself to roads, even on an insanely fast bike, I'd go with a motocross bike, that I could ride over most any terrain, leaving the piggies stranded on the pavement while I'm zooming through the woods. :p

Match

January 24th, 2007, 09:30 AM

Hate to burst your bubble Match, but if you are thinking about outrunning a pig mobile on a motorbike, you're dreaming.....

.....The only use I could see for having a motor bike in a car at your disposal is to change vehicles at a point after the crime.....

...Also remember, outrunning the pursuit is half the battle (if you're too stupid to evade it in the first place). The other half is outrunning the helicopter that they can call in (depending where you are)....

...While it has its merits Match, there are only very specific times you could ever use a car/bike combo to E&E (escape and evade).

Just stick with cars.

and a dual purpose motorcycle mounted in the back and you'd be set. Auxiliary fuel tank on the bike and you could out run even the most equipped of the fuzz.
:cool:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-sport :rolleyes:

I wasn't talking about a normal motorcycle, nor was I talking about out running anyone on paved roads.

From my experience, the fuel tank in such a bike will last on average 4 hours, 3 if you're going flat out. Aux. tank to extend your rang up to say 8 hours and you could easily out run a helicopter (or even two). But the whole point would be to get out of the area quick enough, taking routes unimaginable to the police in their cruisers, and avoid even being seen at all by the bird. Such a bike would be wicked for cruising the urban jungle, riding through fields, on gravel roads, through ditch and into the forest.

Even if the cruisers by direction of the helicopter had the ability to follow you by taking range roads (gravel roads) they'd be limited by how fast their cruisers could go on wash board which may be as low as 60 km/h. Where I live the mountains are less then an hour away from the city, get your bike up there and into the cut lines and you're gone.

It would be wise to carry a decent set of cable cutters on the bike aswell to cut through cattle fences.

Furthermore, I wouldn't expect to out run any force while on a normal motorcycle, which reminds me of a little discussion I had with the sheriff;

This is while I was at the gas station filling up the 1300 cc busa, with the speed governor removed, capable of 305 km/h... before I shut it down :)

Me: So, you put premium in that bitch? :D
Cop: You can't out run the Motorolas (Radio)

He was very blunt and butt hurt in his reply to my simple question
;)