Ammonium calcium nitrate double salt fertilizer

[piro]

I've purchased some 15.5-0-0 fertilizer and on the bag
it says "ammonium calcium nitrate double salt". Im
wondering how i can seperate the amonium nitrate from
the calcium nitrate. I dissolved about 500g in .5L of
water and after a few days a very small amount of gunk
settled on the bottom so it doesnt have alot of
impurities/coating in it.

How should i go about seperating the AN?

[spydamonkee]

This has been explained over and over in this forum, when i needed to find out how to seperate the "gunk" from my fertilizer i simply did a search as you should have.

[Anthony]

Why on earth would you bother seperating it? They're both explosive!

[piro]

Actually spydamonkee what has been discussed is seperating the coating out of CALCIUM ammonium nitrate. Not ammonium calcium nitrate double salt.

I want to seperate the AN for use in chemical reactions etc. Plus im interesting in finding out how much AN there is in the fertilizer.

Does CN detonate as easily as AN? Not that its easy to detonate AN, but is CN harder to detonate?

Are standard fuels like diesel, xylene, toluene, gas etc ok to sensitive CN in the standard concentrations? ie 1-7% fuel or should you use more or less?

[rikkitikkitavi]

the fertilizer has the following composition

[Ca(NO3)2]5*NH4NO3*10H2O

unfortunately there is no easy way to separate them, since both CN and AN is soluble in most solvents. However, by adding Ca(OH)2 and heating you will boil off NH3, (beware of the fumes)

Adding (NH4)2SO4 fertilizer will preciptate CaSO4 leaving AN in solution.

Heating it to aprox 200 C decomposes NH4NO3 but it will form a slugde making it difficult for the gases (N2O,NH3,H2O,N2) to be released so some sort of agitation is needed.

For AN , you could try to find 34-0-0 which is pure AN, or 28-0-0 which is AN+ CaCO3.

In the archives there are topics covering CN used as a explosive base.

/rickard

[Guerilla]

Maybe one option would be to make saturated solutions of the double salt, then adding to it ammonium sulfate solution or powder as it has a good water solubility.

That should convert remaining CN to AN and precipitate insoluble calcium sulfate which can be filtered off easily. Then you just boil the solution down..

This demands to know how much there is calcium nitrate to convert, you don't want too much (NH4)2SO4 in your final precipitate. Ammonium sulfate should be found as a fertilizer with cheap prize...

[piro]

I looked up the brand name on the bag and got some information. apparently the fertilizer contains 19 percent water soluble calcium. what exactly would this be and how would one remove it? anyone else have any additional info/ideas?

Do you people think its still detonatable with 19 percent "water soluble calcium"?

<small>[ February 15, 2003, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: piro ]</small>

[rikkitikkitavi]

if you calculate the amount of Ca in the formula I gave

[Ca(NO3)2]5*NH4NO3*10H2O molar mass 1080 gr/mole of salt

1 mole , 1080 grams contain 5*40 gr Ca = 20 % Ca.
Since this is a nitrate salt , it is water soluble.
as for detonating Ca(NO3)2 compounds , do a search this has been discussed before-

/rickard

[piro]

Yes i searched but i only found reports of peoeple successfully detonating CNNM. I couldnt find reports of anyone detonating CNFO.

[rikkitikkitavi]

Im think that CNNM is detonable because the CN did contain AN, as stated previously. And NM is sentitized by AN (actually, the NH4+,IRCC). Pure CN will be a different matter.

I assume CNFO is mcuh harder , if not impossible to detonate.
CN decomposes @ 500 C to CaO, NO2, NO and O2 so it is a much more stable salt than AN.
It is also ridiciously hygroscopic if dried so all the crystalwater is evaporated.

I have tried various carbon-CN mixtures with dried CN to se what happend and it was a slow reaction, compared to f e x NaNO3.
But I havent tried to detonate any (yet :) .
Have you searched the archives ?

Otherwise, you are on virgin ground, so please report back any results.. :)

/rickard

[kingspaz]

rickard, i believe it is sensitised by this:
NH4NO3 &lt;=&gt; HNO3 + NH3
the NO2 group on nitromethane makes the CH3 group slightly acidic so capable of forming salts.
NH3 + CH3NO2 --&gt; NH4CH2NO2
i think :)

[piro]

Yes thats what i thought about the CNNM mixture. The NM sensitives the AN and the NH4 sensitizes the NM. match made in heaven. Although, while i was searching i did see a patent for a blasting mix which contains mostly calcium nitrate and sulfur.

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: piro ]</small>

[Anthony]

Unless I'm mistaken I think I remember ALENGOSVIG1 successfully detonating calcium nitrate/soy oil.

[DBSP]

I've detonated 1400g of pure CaN (Ca(NO3)2) together with 4 or 5% of raps oil. I had a 120g ANNM booster. I did detonate but not fully. A mix of CaN and AN should probably easily detonate. CaNAP workes, fine so it's just a matter of sensitizers and boosters.

There might be some additional onfo here:

<a href="http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000578#000000" target="_blank">http://www.roguesci.org/cgi-bin/ewforum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000578#000000</a>

[piro]

I thought CaN (calcium ammonium nitrate) was ammonium nitrate with calcium carbonate and other shit.

[DBSP]

Long ago when I was messing with CNAP (CN= calcium nitrate), NBK suggested that CaN would be short for calcium nitrate so that it wouldn't be possible to mistake it for something else. However that was before CaN (calcium ammonium blabla) turned up here and before the ones who introduced CaN came here.

I think we need a new shorty for Calcium nitrate, perhaps CaNi- CA lcium NI trate, that should make things very clear.

Sorry to step OT.

[kingspaz]

CaN is an abbreviation for calcium nitrate just as AN is an abbreviaton for ammonium nitrate.
calcium and ammonium nitrate mixed fertiliser is just a mix of the two nitrates not a single chemical compound. it may have chalk and other shit in it so may need a little purification but thats not a big deal really.

edit: its not that off topic, well what else is CN? nothing i can think of apart from a nitrile group so in my opinion calcium nitrate should be abbreviated to CN or the chemical formula - Ca(NO3)2

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: kingspaz ]</small>

[tmp]

I've had some experience with the double salt. The 1st problem with it is
the wax coating mixed in. I get rid of this by putting the compound in a
paper filter and pouring ice cold water through. Even at 0 C the Ca(NO3)2
and NH4NO3 dissolve rather well leaving the wax in the filter. After that its
a matter of which of the 2 nitrates I want and that has already been
discussed. I use the Tiger brand made by Cape Fear Chemicals Inc.

[Dave the Rave]

Strange, at my Country they don´t use wax to coat the AN or the CaN, just plain chalk. The idea of using isopropil alchool tho wash it out can work ?