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Mick
August 1st, 2001, 07:09 AM
about to by some KNO3 fertilizer, i have a choice between crystalline or prilled,

both kinds are 13-0-45 (NPK)
i was hoping to use it for BP, rocket propellant (maybe HNO3)

so yeah, which one- prilled or crystalline?

kingspaz
August 1st, 2001, 09:10 AM
i'm not sure what the crystaline form is but i guess it would be something like crystals the size of table salt. this means it would need less work reducing particle size for making black powder.

Pyroboy
August 1st, 2001, 10:46 AM
I've brought the prilled and I've brought the crystalline. The guys who run the shop call prilled non soluble and crystalline soluble. I've found the "soluble" to be best for making black powder. I say go with that! http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Pyroboy (edited August 01, 2001).]

Mick
August 2nd, 2001, 02:48 AM
okay, cool, thanks guys

TheBear
September 6th, 2002, 01:17 PM
Hi guys, I was just about to post this as a new topic but then i thought I might just as well post it here.

(Lucky for you that you did...otherwise YOU'D be GONE! NBK)

A 25 kg sack of KNO3 I had a paintshop order for me came today. But to my great disappointment it contains 46% K2O! And K2O isn't a oxidser is it? And in that case I'll have to purify the "KNO3" for blackpowder-use, nitric-acid-manufacture etc, right? The sack costs $60 and I don't want to buy it until I've heard what you guys think: Can it be used without purifying? Is the purifying worth the trouble?

Both KNO3 and K2O are soluble in water right but is ther any other solvent that only disolves one of those but not the orher?

I more than appreciate all answers :)

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: nbk2000 ]</small>

xulus
September 6th, 2002, 04:04 PM
I have KNO3 fertiliser with K2O in...dont know the proportions but it seems to work fine unpurified for BP, KNO3/Sucrose, etc.

megalomania
September 7th, 2002, 01:49 AM
Fertilizers are labeled in a weird manner. While it may say there is potassium oxide, what they mean is that your potassium nitrate is equivalent to potassium oxide. Consider the fertilizer posted above by Mick, 13-0-45. This is the N-P-K number, or nitrogen-phosphorus-potassium number. Since it is potassium nitrate it is high in potassium and nitrogen.

Consider a number of 15-30-15. The middle phosphorus number means the fertilizer contains 30% by weight of phosphorus if it were P2O5. The third 15 means it contains 15% by weight of K2O. This does not mean that the fertilizer actually contains either P2O5 or K2O. I quote:

The phosphorus content of a fertilizer is specified as the amount of P2O5, because this is the anhydrous form of phosphoric acid. In this sense it is the most concentrated form of phosphate, which is the form of phosphorus required by plants. The potassium content is designated in terms of K2O, which is also called potash. Modern chemical fertilizers usually contain KCl instead, but the potassium content is still specified as the equivalent amount of potash.

In short, your fertilizer is pure (enough) potassium nitrate labeled only so that farmers may understand what it will do for them in terms of potash. There is really no K2O.

NoltaiR
September 7th, 2002, 02:54 AM
I have always bought 50 pound bags of KNO3 under the brand name 'K-Power' for 30$ each. Its NPK is 13-0-46. The place I get it from (called Earthworks) sells it in both the prilled and crystalline (soluble). I have always used it in homemade BP and it works terrifically (though the cashier always questions me thoroughly about my intentions with 100 pounds--I always buy two bags at a time--of KNO3). I always say it is for my grandfathers' farm and then I have to give them information such as the location of the farm, his phone number, and various other information.. quite rediculous really, but at least I get what I want.

Keref
September 7th, 2002, 07:18 AM
I know a drugstore where they used to sell lots of chems but now the grandfather who owned it gave it to his son and it's more difficult now as the son doesn't know chems... But a friend of mine bought ssome KNO3 there and they asked him why to do with and he answered smoke bomb (what was the case) and they let him buy :)
they sold me once some sulfuric acid and nitric acid (low conc. ) and glycerin, i was far from 18... Stanfield it shouldn't be difficult to find some chems in France, just need a cool drugstore which will buy some for you (but often need to order large quantities).
In France you need authorizations... but people are less suspicious than in the USA, so it's no worth trying, you may be surprised by all the things you can get.

homer johnston
September 29th, 2002, 05:49 PM
DUDE! I live in the bay area (the area around san francisco in california). And the only hardware stores around here is Home depot, and Orchard supply. I have been looking to buy large amounts of NH4NO3 and KNO3. I checked hydroponics stores, andthe people who work there said that they never even heard of a NPK number of
13-0-45. I have been looking everywhere, i want to make some rocket fuel is the KNO3 and some APAN with the NH4NO3. I just wish there are some stores around here that i can find this stuff. Anyone got any stores where i can find some?

jimwig
September 30th, 2002, 10:42 PM
13-0-45 --- what the fuck is that?

get 34-0-0 for about 8 bucks a bag. (fifty pounds i believe)

and don't buy a ton and load it in your Ford Econoline.

and don't mix it up with diesel and park outside the closest federal facility.

REALLY don't do these things.

with 13-0-45 you gotta purify the nitrogen salt and its a pain. 'scuse that ammonium salt. still
a pain.

Richy
October 4th, 2002, 07:36 AM
i found a great site on the synthesis of KNO3, which may be useful for those who are having difficulty obtaining it where they live. even if you can grab a good share, you still may want to check this out&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href="http://hmx.8m.com/ChemProc/KNO3Syn.html" target="_blank">http://hmx.8m.com/ChemProc/KNO3Syn.html</a>

RDX*
October 6th, 2002, 02:59 PM
TheBear your sack probably contains KNO3, but it’s better to buy your KNO3 from Lantmännen (Granngården) (a store that sells farmer equipment in Sweden).
The have a product that contains 100% KNO3 it’s called Krista-K.
I’ve paid 20$ for a 25kg sack. You can read the data-sheet at the URL below.

BTW. They got more interesting chemicals for making explosives
53% nitric acid, 98-99% urea 80% AN.

<a href="http://www.hydroagri.se/" target="_blank">http://www.hydroagri.se/</a>

<a href="http://www.granngarden.se/" target="_blank">www.granngarden.se/</a>

TheBear
October 14th, 2002, 02:51 PM
Thank you very much for the information RDX!
Too bad I bought my sack for $60 :(

53% Nitric acid you say? Mustn't you have special permission from "Länsstyrelsen" to buy that? I know that you have to request persmission if you want to buy 95-98% Sulfuric acid. What has nitric acid got to do with farming anyway?

ossassin
March 6th, 2003, 09:59 PM
So does the number HAVE to be 13-0-45 or is that just an example? Is it basically KNO3 if it is high in N and K but with no P?

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: ossassin ]</small>

xyz
March 7th, 2003, 06:23 AM
13-0-45 is KNO3. It should be close to that if it is KNO3 (it could be 13-0-42 or something). Anything that is reasonably close to 13-0-45 is most probably KNO3.

Stores that don't care what they sell to who are cool, I have a friend who is only 12 or 13 years old and small for his age but he regularly picks up 25Kg bags of AN and 10Kg boxes of KNO3 from a hydroponics store :) .