Can we sell any chemicals through this forum?

[Teck]

I was wondering if we can sell any chemicals to each other through this forum? Cus I have 2 gallons of 30% hydrogen peroxide (Baquacil) and I was wondering if anyone wanna buy any. Im short on money and I gatta buy some more chemicals.

Teck5000@hotmail.com

[This message has been edited by Teck (edited June 16, 2001).]

[kingspaz]

how could you get anything sent to you? you could be giving your address to a pig undercover. you could use the address of the house you used to live in and the people there could pass it on to you but that wouldn't really make a pigs life that much more difficult. personly i wouldn't risk it but thats just my opinion.

[Mr Cool]

Does anyone here seriously believe there are undercover police in this forum? I'm not sure, I was just wondering what you think.
I'm selling a few things to UK people I trust. Things like KNO3, fuse, Al powder etc.

[Predator]

Better still, anyone here believe in more then one pig posting on this forum to lead others into a false sense of security?

pigs working together saying for example

<-pig1-> I've got stuff to sell!

<-pig2-> i'll buy some! heres my details etc etc

<-pig2-> I got my stuff!!! This guy's trustworthy!

<-idiot-> i'll buy some! heres my details!

http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[This message has been edited by Predator (edited June 16, 2001).]

[10fingers]

There is no law against selling chemicals to whoever you want as long as they are not explosives. What that person does with them is there responsibility, unless they were a minor then you might be held responsible for what they did with them.

[CragHack]

granted, but what if you give a piggie your address? Maybe they don't have enough evidence for a search warrent now, so they can't get your ip from mega, or the server this forum is on. (assuming mega didn't erase the info before the cops got it) so they have to con your address (street addres) out of you. Now that they have it, they can watch your house and wait for you to do somthing illegal...

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"If you must, do it with intelligent people, at least they know how to talk to the cops."

[kingspaz]

my point exactly.....lets face it most of us have admitted to making illegal devices although alot of us tend to dream now but even still the pigs could get you on conspiring to commit a crime or somthing. i know most of the guys here are pretty sound people but theres always that chance that one of them could be a pig winning over our trust to bust us. thats a chance i'm not willing to take.

[ANTI-SYSTEM]

IT would just be best not to sell through here. just find a person around your area and sell it to them.

[ALENGOSVIG1]

you could sell some things on ebay. just say its low quiality stuff or make it look like garbage so no one else bids except the person you are want to sell it too. that way its official.

[John456]

Frankly i dont think the police or any other law enforcement would take the time to check out something as petty as shipping legal chemicals, unless maybe the person in question claimed they were going to blow up a building or something. And, if they were that concerned about finding them, they could just get your IP address and demand that your ISP give them your address, they wouldnt need some guy trying to get you to tell them your address. In short, if they wanted to nab you they could do it very easily, and i dont think shipping/buying chemicals that are perfectly legal is dangerous. But hey, if your concerned, dont buy them.

[Teck]

Ya you guys are right, damn I didnt even think about the pigs that might be working here undercover. Screw the idea of selling anything. I guess Ill sell some of it through ebay. Damn Damn Damn its almost 4th of july and I dont have money to buy me some more flash powder.

[MacCleod]

You could also have a problem if you tried to mail chem's that are considered hazardous by the carrier (such as oxidizers,flammables,etc.)without notifying them first.If you were honest with them up front,you could legally ship it,but then you'd have to pay whatever hazard fees they felt like imposing.

[krimmie]

Most chemicals require special handling when shipped in the U.S. The shipper must complete a 3-part HAZ MAT form and should be double boxed. The expense is hardly worth the effort.

[Mick]

purchase of chemicals with intent to manufacture illeagal explosives.

or sales of chemicals with full knowledge that they will be used to manufacture illeagal explosives.

[10fingers]

I think there are places other than the U.S. Post office where you can rent a mailbox without giving identification. The post office would require proof of identification before renting a P.O. box.
Most chemicals can be shipped without a haz mat fee, ($15.00) except flammables and certain strong oxidizers and acids.

[This message has been edited by 10fingers (edited July 14, 2001).]

[AmonDin]

The feds already have your name and address anyway, so why bother? If you want to exchange chemicals over the net be my guest, but I'd prefer not to give them an excuse to start watching me closer than they already do.

From a legal standpoint, as long as it's not an explosive, or any form of drug, you can buy/sell/trade all you want and they can't do anything about it (legally).

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"When all else fails, just light their things on fire, people hate that..." - Fred

[J]

So in the US you can just rent a PO box without any ID? Here in the UK, you need a house! It makes it fairly pointless, because you can just ring a number and get the address the PO box is registered to; you don't even need to be a cop. It would be possible to register one anonymously, but it would be expensive and difficult. The way I'd do it is by staying at a B&B for a couple of weeks (expensive), and getting the box registered to the B&B.

Finding a derelict house might work, but I don't know if the post office would deliver the id card and other documents to such a place.

J

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[DarkAngel]

I saw on tv ones how a reporter needed a
PO box without his own indentification,
so he shows to a guy he saw 10 bucks
and asks:
"could you hire a PO box over there for me,and points at the store"

The guy said yes and the reporter gave him the money needed to hire a PO box,the guy walks in and shows his ID and get's the key and walks back to the reporter and gave him the key and the reporter gave him the cash.
And he had a PO box http://theforum.virtualave.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif

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ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[nbk2000]

In the US, you (or some derelict wino) need to show ID to get a PO Box, they then mail a letter to the street address you gave them. You then have to bring that letter in with you to get the key.

But, if you set up a mailbox along a country road somewhere, when someone tries to trace the PO Box, it goes from the box to an empty lot. End of the hunt.

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"The knowledge that they fear is a weapon to be used against them"

Go here (http://members.nbci.com/angelo_444/dload.html) to download the NBK2000 website PDF.

Go here (http://briefcase.yahoo.com/nbk2k) to download the NBK2000 videos.

[J]

Setting up a mailbox on a country road sounds like a damn good idea! It would be interesting to know if the postman actually delivered to the box. To make it more convincing, the box could be set up outside a shed or farm outbuilding.

I once read about a skip (dumpster) in London that had an address. People would post things to the skip, and it became some kind of art project.

J

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[EP]

It might work when registering a PO box to put the address of a random house of a person you don't know. Then intercept the letter that you need when you open the PO box.

[PYRO500]

Fine then, go ahead and add a felony to your other list of crimes

[EP]

If you are getting materials to make illegal explosives, how worried are you going to be about taking a letter from a mailbox? Its not like the people would notice it missing, they wouldnt know about it.

[PYRO500]

but sappose someone actually does see you, then you can add mail theft to your wrap sheet. and what if they don't deliver on time or you can't get to the box in time without being caught. I think it is better to use on at an abandoned house

[J]

If you knew someone was on holiday, AND they had an outdoor mailbox rather than a letter box (most people in the UK have the latter) then this would be a good idea.

If you found a rich person who had moved house and was still waiting to sell his old house, then this would be a prime target too. Or if you found a recently abandoned house, chances are the postman would still deliver mail unless there was a forwarding address set up.

J

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[Emigre]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by J:
If you knew someone was on holiday, AND they had an outdoor mailbox rather than a letter box (most people in the UK have the latter) then this would be a good idea.

If you found a rich person who had moved house and was still waiting to sell his old house, then this would be a prime target too. Or if you found a recently abandoned house, chances are the postman would still deliver mail unless there was a forwarding address set up.

J

</font>

When you do a change of address or forwarding in the US it is only valid for either your specific name, or a family all with the same last name. So even if there were forwarding on a house, as long as you used a different last name from the people who lived there, the mail should skip the forward and be delivered where it needs to go.

[J]

Now you mention it, I think it's the same in the UK.

J

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[BrAiNFeVeR]

Errh J, I think I overloaded your briefcase ...

Account bandwidth exceeded
The requested URL '/users/e16a7f56/bc/public/forumarchive.r03?bc6VnY7ADeqjqazW' is temporarily overloaded. Please try again later.

What is the max. down speed on these things ?? I have cable (max 900KB/s down, up limited to 16KB/s)

[-Onthefringe-]

Instead of the PO use a maildrop like Mailboxes Etc. They still need an ID but could care less about the home address. The PO only asks for that to make sure you live in their zip code. You can rent a POB in your employers zip code as well. Mailboxes Etc wil also give you an actual street address although there is a law on the books requireing you to add PMB (private mail box) to your correspondance. Not very well enforced though. MBE may also show up on some maildrop databases but no big deal unless your perpetrating CC fraud.

If you want a public forum for selling chemicals then use Ebays Private Auction feature, and post the invite here. If its not illegal to own/sell then don't sweat the pigs. they won't waste the time to investigate a non-criminal act, even if they don't like it. Just keep the names anonymous and use an escrow, keeps your address from being seen by the other guy.

Just a suggestion

[J]

Brainfever, Yahoo briefcases often have problems for some reason, and it's nothing to do with whoever's downloading/uploading.

I know of a few (expensive) remailers in the UK and abroad, but I haven't found a service that gives you a box that you can go and get the mail from yourself. Apparently this can be arranged under the PO box service, but there's the home address problem etc.

J

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[ChemistrySet]

Regarding Selling Chemicals Through This Forum -- it is a great addition to other possibilities, like online auctions, e.g. Skylighter's (which is reasonably monitored by the owner to prevent abuses that none of us want) -- We in USA are being chided to prevent abuses by the otherwise unhappy CPSC action to smother amateur pyrotechny and science experimentation (perhaps this enhancement of safety awareness is God's bringing ' good' out of the otherwise Constitutional mischief).

The key would be to scrutinise the personal contacts one receives through the E-mail option, talk on the telephone to underscore insistence on legitimacy, and follow the proper shipping proccesses -- which through USPS is simple enough by labeling qualifying oxidisers/reducers Consumer Commodity -- ORM-D and Surface Transportation Only.

PS: This thread contains porcine inferences . . .
Today I was meditating on stuff like alienation -- and realised that we in the West are alienated[I] from whole hosts of people: policemen, soldiers, government agents, physicians, morticians, undertakers, deaf & dumb & blind, and many others. Formerly, when everybody lived in large small-towns and cities divided into intimate neighbourhoods and quarters, and people tended not to roam, alienation was not so problematically severe. Calling Peace Officers "Pigs" -- surely we can do something other than be provocative and pessimistic. Polarisation of society into right/left, or anything else, engenders needless opposition . . . Indeed, Peace Officers logically are our natural allies when we make clear that we uphold the Constitution of our various lands, are men of good faith & good will, and above all aim to DO NO HARM! The FAQ does make this good-faith clear, and we can all-the-more show it by our posting language. When it's time for [I]venting -- aren't there more fun ways to do it?

An Oregon supporter of CRAP URL REMOVED!

++++++++++

Pigs and their supporters can eat convict shit and die! NBK

[ozboy]

I've seen posties deliver mail to a vacant block (house recently demolished), day after day after day in Australia. This went on for months.

There wans't even a mailbox, they just shoved it into a hole in the fence!

[tmp]

It doesn't matter where its shipped. LE wanting to investigate or making an
arrest will just observe where the package is shipped anyway. Although,
most of LE's activities center around illegal drug manufacture, the idiots at
the CPSC focus on pyro supplies. The CPSC is pressuring, and in some cases
busting, pyro suppliers who won't kiss their asses. How long will it be before
they make a major shift in policy and go after the end users ?

It's a lot harder to find people making their own supplies from OTC sources.
Get creative and limit your risk ! BTW, the DEA has been busting people who
ordered equipment and chemicals through eBay. It shouldn't be too long
before the CPSC follows their lead.

[ressurection joe]

Have a look at this chemical supplier I found online.
Looks far too good not too be pigs. :eek:

http://www.thechemicalshop.com/

What do you think???

[c.Tech]

Looks far too good to be true. Many of these chems are widely used to make drugs, explosives, pyrotechnics and even chemical weapons (DMSO).

It's funny how some people actually purchase chems from this site’s, many people such as hopeless junkies and terrorist’s don’t think before they act, therefore falling into this trap.

But what’s very interesting is why the police would sell these chemicals to catch people, if somebody was just to buy them doesn’t mean they are making illegal goods (although highly likely). It can’t be used as evidence can it?

[nbk2000]

My Admiral-Ackbar sense says it's a mutha-luvin trap, fool!

[Isotoxin]

If you bother to be social in your town and attend block parties and such you might get the chance to "house sit" where you tend to their pets and water the lawn and of course take in the mail and newspaper.

After all with all the talk in the news about crooks watching people's houses to see if a pile of newspapers builds up and then breaking in you cant be too careful...

Then you could have no fear at all about screening the letters and taking the one you want.

As for the mailboxes - A book called How to Be Invisible also claims you can add your own mailbox onto the end of the row(with the correct numbers) and get mail there.

[megalomania]

I think ChemistrySet hit the nail on the head when he said selling chemicals would be a great addition if properly monitored. Since I have neither the time nor inclination to do this effectively, nor do I trust anyone else enough to do it, selling or trading chemicals on The Forum is a bad idea. If I set up a system to handle this, that may be fine, but I don’t think I will trust the system to evolve on its own. How long would it be before I get the feds asking me why people are selling ephedrine on my website? Huh? would be my first response.

Oh, for heavens sake! The first chemicals for sale on that website are red phosphorus and iodine :( I swear this “business” must be set up inside an evidence locker, or some meth cook is liquidating his assets.

[Dawg]

Anyone think there's something slightly piscine about this, or should I just order a couple of tons and have it delivered to my POB @ 1600 Pennsylvania Ave?

http://cgi.ebay.com/55-lbs-Ammonium-Nitrate-AN-Oxidizer-reagent_W0QQitemZ200008268043QQihZ010QQcategoryZ10 4233QQcmdZViewItem

[c.Tech]

I wouldn’t trust it, looks like a trap.

Almost perfect feedbacks that are all related, check out the sellers store http://stores.ebay.com/Expedited-Chemicals all the chemicals they sell are for making bombs or drugs.

I wouldn’t be buying anything from somebody selling iodine crystals over e-bay.

Why do you need 50 lb anyway?

[megalomania]

Believe it or not the stuff is used as fertilizer, so 50 lbs is not too much. I have a garden, and I would love to formulate my own fertilizer blend instead of buying the overpriced premixed crap for the sheeple. I happen to know a thing or two about chemistry after all. I feel like a terrorist just asking about pure fertilizers. My trees deserve the best. I want to start a hydroponic garden too, and those require even more careful mixing of nutrients.

I grow fruit trees if anyone wanted to know.

Did you see the shipping on that ammonium nitrate? It is twice what the chemical costs! This is why I hate shopping on ebay, the sellers are all scammers. There are no individuals selling their used items anymore like how it used to be. Now its all scammers and con artists out to build their fortune by selling retail goods at retail prices for exorbitant shipping.

[cracker]

Possibly a trading service could be organized to help better manage unneeded lab chemicals. This would prevent possible "dumping" and would better manage the flow of potential hazardous waste. There is a similar program in my community organized by Solid Waste Managment.

With the permission of the FORUM LEADERS only, I would and could help kick off a very good start to this idea, offering over 160 differnent potential chemical trades. Excepting equal or greater market value of chemical (perferably ones not on my list) in return. For educational and legal research only.

If this offer is of possibility within the FORUM then methods of trading could be further discussed

[nbk2000]

We always have, and always will, forbid any such trafficing in weapons and explosives precursors or components.

Things you can sell with no questions as a farm or photography supply become BOMBZ! components when sold by a site dedicated to E&W, thus incuring sheeple wrath. :(

Enough bleating draws attention from the sheep dogs and the shepard who controls them (cops and Government). That's VERY bad.

[Cobalt.45]

For what it's worth, a newly organized science-oriented Forum has made the decision to open a "Marketplace" for their members to buy, sell and trade chemicals and such.

The primary limitation on what's not OK, are drug precursors that would have no other practical use in research.

It remains to be seen whether or not the idea flies...

[nbk2000]

If people want to go to the crucible to sell/exchange chemicals, that's on them.

[c.Tech]

nbk, it would be a good idea not to mention the forums name for I don’t think they would want people going there to just buy and sell chemicals, especially if they are going to be used for illegal purposes, even worse the cops may go there.

[nbk2000]

I'm not the one who brought it up in the first place, not even indirectly.

So unless you already know about the place, you can't find it with just a name, not even here, unless you can put 1 and 1 together. ;)

Plus, there are things you're not aware of, so don't comment on it.

[prufrock]

The owner of Expedited Chemicals on ebay has had some legal problems. Consequently his store on ebay has closed. This occurred in September, 2006

Go to http://www.expeditedchemicals.com for more information. The Canadian police have also posted some additional facts. Go to
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ottawa/release060927_e.htmdetails(Page link expired. NBK).

One ton of RED PHOSPHORUS was seized. Furthermore several more chemicals were seized such as ammonium nitrate, hexamine, pentaerythritol, etc. The police bulletin is very explicit in its discussion of the hoard of chemicals.