Is HEXAMINE that sweet smelling white stuff??

[Synaigo]

Well you got the question in the subject header.. I need to now this cause in the outdoor store where I buy my stuff they sell 2 types of heating tablets 1 black (carbon based probably) an 1 white that is a little fat/moist to the touch, smells very sweet like candy almost.. In a red cardbord box, brandname: "Esbit" Is the latter one the Hexamine/Methenamine? (I doesn't state it on the box)

(btw, this in the peroxide department because i'm planning to make HMTD with it.)

[DarkAngel]

Yes Esbit is Hexamine if you look very good on the box you see the word "Methenamine"
That's the same as Hexamine.

But you discribed Esbit as "fat/moist" my Esbit is very dry.

BTW where are you from?



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ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[Hex]

I don't know...d they put somesort of perfume into these tablets? If it's white, it doesn't smell of petrol, and it's a fuel tablet, then it's probably hexamine..
Pure hexamine has a fishy ammonia sort of smell, but not nearly as strong or sharp. In fact, it reminds me of one or two ex-girlfriends.....

[Synaigo]

it reminds me of one or two ex-girlfriends.....-lol

Anyways, I looked VERY closely at the box
(I even ripped it apart to see if it might be on the inside) but I still could not find it...Maybe a newer or older type of box?!

But you're sure right? Maybe I'll just give it a go and see what happens... Thanx for the help.

BTW- I am from the Low-Countries, the Netherlands to be exact..

[EventHorizon]

Hex- LOL!!!

If is smells like fish its a tasty dish, if it smells like colougne leave it alone.

I've never used Esbit tabs so I don't know, but maybe the wax in them is giving them the fat[ty]/moist feeling.

------------------
-The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.- Albert Einstein

PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[mr.evil]

hey al,

why do you use esbit fuel tablets?
maybe there's a pollution in it...

but anyway,
i make my hexamine/methenamine myself.
by adding formaldehyde-solution and ammonia together(200/450ml.).

next.
i let it sit for lets say:24 hours.
i heat it and the crystels begin to appear.

the result;
100% pure home-made hexamine.

but i suppose you didn't have acces to formaldehyde-solution.

with kind regards,
Mr.Evil

[This message has been edited by mr.evil (edited September 28, 2001).]

[DBSP]

I just have a simple question? I can get paraformaldehyde and NH3. But what is the differens between formaldehyde and paraformaldehyde, and can I use the "para."
Mr.Evil

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¤monte¤

[kingspaz]

i think (emphasis on think!) paraformaldehyde is polimerised formaldehyde. so if you mix it with water you should get a fomaldehyde solution. it would be better to get another opinion though.

[rikkitikkitavi]

paraformaldehyde is (CH2O)n , i e
a polymer of formaldehyde.
Much less noxious to work with and it can be regenerated into formaldehyde solution by heating. It can probably be dissolved in water directly if you put in water and apply some heat!

/rickard

[DarkAngel]

2 days ago i made some HMTD from Esbit it works but i think you can better use pure Hexamine as the wax/binder block's the filter and the HTMD is like wet flour(sticky mess)
I only used 8 grams of Esbit.
I let it dry for about 24 hours (it whas still a bit wet)
I did some test's and it whas less sensitive to flame as CTAP
Than i folded the filter around a firecracker ignited it and it detonated with a loud report.

Synaigo:Im also from the Netherlands do you have icq/msn?

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[Snipie]

DarkAngel: where do you buy pure Hexamine (or formaldehyde) in the Netherlands ?? (I’m also from the Netherlands and I have msn, so if it is ok with you I add you to my list.)

[Synaigo]

Does anybody know how to remove the wax,etc from the Esbit? I tried heating it and removing the wax that floated to the top but that wasn't really that efficient.. (Hardly any wax forms...)

BTW: I am a person who is thinks privacy and anonymity is important.. I can give you (as total strangers) one of my (many) E-mail adresses if you want but not my MSN stuff
-yet-

And a little question for Mr.Evil: where EXACTLY do you get your formaldehyde (in what store in A'dam)or any stuff for that matter?

[This message has been edited by Synaigo (edited September 30, 2001).]

[tvs17]

You can't buy formaline in Amsterdam..
Mr. Evil has got some from me to experiment with.
But I think just for making some HMTD the unpurified hexamine from Esbit is just fine.

[CodeMason]

IIRC Esbit is only around 3-4% wax anyway.

[Hex]

You could probably take out the wax by grinding it under petrol/lighter fluid.

ps Kingspaz - where can you get paraformaldehyde in the UK?

[This message has been edited by Hex (edited October 01, 2001).]

[mr.evil]

maybe you can order it at a Chemical supplier. just try it.

but anyway,
i'v heard that they use formaline in cleaning stuff and to put death animals on strong water so they doesn't rot.

anywone who know more about that cleaning/strong water stuff?



------------------
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down"
Wherner von Braun

[tvs17]

Yes, formalin is used for conserving dead organisms. Also in large scale cleaning animal and agricultural applications..
It can be ordered easily at a chemical supplier though.. It has many uses..

[kingspaz]

hex, i haven't got a clue where to get it in the UK. however as tvs17 said it is used as a preservative for dead animals. have you seen those brains and things in jars? the liquid they are stored in is formaldehyde solution. maybe universities have a use for it...

about the hexamine i think doing what hex said should work fine although maybe the petrol may need to be warmed in water bath to aid dissolving.

[This message has been edited by kingspaz (edited October 01, 2001).]

[Anthony]

Check big camping shops, formaldehyde and paraformaldehyde is used as a dissinfectant in portable crappers.

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"Shit happens. Get a fucking helmet"

[tvs17]

Yes, years ago I've also seen it in several shops as desinfectant. But due to suspect carcenogenic hazards it's beeing banned from ordinary shops I think. Atleast in Holland.

[BrAiNFeVeR]

Wow, it seems like the low lands are very well represented on this forum !!
Maybe it is because of the shitty weather, and everyone wants to make some "heat" for themselves ;-))
The lack for hexamine is actually the only thing that's keeping me from making htmd! Maybe I'll make some hexamine ...


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"Mess with me, and you'll end up with a .44 under your chin and your brains on the ceiling"

[tvs17]

Yes, a lot of Dutch/Belgian people here!

Synaigo, send me an email, maybe I can help you. I understand you live in Amsterdam?

[Hex]

Speaking of paraformaldehyde, does anyone know whether or not trioxan (the cyclic trimer, rather than the polymer) can be substituted into RDX reactions? I imagine it would be fine...don't know if it's available for "legitimate" reasons.

[the_wingman]

I've bought my Esbit from Conrad (as well known supplier of nearly everything in Germany).It works very well for HMTD. It's possible to order at homepage (www.conrad.de, conrad.nl...).
Once I saw it in a hobby-store where they sold it as solid fuel for "miniature steam engines". You might also find it at toy-stores or model constructing stores.
hope I was helpful...

[DarkAngel]

Synaigo MSN is made for chatting only in real time,what would be wrong if i have you in my MSN list?
(I wouldn't know anything more about you than)
In the beginning i whas also a privacy anonymouty freak but later on i realised that it doesn't make any diverence.
If it's that you'r afraid for the police than you don't have to as if they really needed to catch you they already did that.

Here in Holland i only have see it in Camping shops but when i whas in Germany a few months ago i saw it in severall stores.
Maybe you could disolve alot of Esbit in hot water and than let it cool in the fridge maybe the wax/binder would settle and fload on the top.
I will try it now and i will reply if it worked.

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[Synaigo]

Well today I took the "leap of faith" and just made some HMTD with the Esbit stuff, only I have a slight problem, the HTMD settled in the filter and I guess due to the binder its now a tought, solid and hard block, I haven't tried detonating it (Its 1:09 AM now) but would this be a positive thing or a negative thing??

BTW My E-mail adress is: MennodeVries@yahoo.com (no that isn't my real name -DUH!)I don't check it that often (once every few days) so don't expect me to reply the same or next day...

Another BTW: I live very close to Amsterdam +- 15-20 by train..(Almere) But I often shop there so I hoped the Chems might be obtained there..

[EventHorizon]

You should purify the tabs before making HMTD. I think the easist way is to crush and dissolve in water, then filter out the wax and recrystalize the hexamine.

Is your product a hard mass or just a tight clump of crystals. Whenever a 'friend' makes his the dried mass is easily powdered by GENTLY crushing under a plastic roller.

------------------
-The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.- Albert Einstein

PGP ID 0x147CEF54

[DarkAngel]

I disolved the Esbit is water and a small part didn't disolved i expact this is the binder it didn't become more after cooling it in the fridge,it whas not alot but atleast you can try it.

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[DBSP]

Esbit is easily purified, just dissolve it in water, filter of the white solid and vapourise the remaining liquid. If I'm not wrong Esbit tablets weigh 4g, every tablet contains 2.9g hexamine.

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¤monte¤

[DarkAngel]

I just said that.

------------------
ÐarkAngel

For explosives and stuff go to Section1 http://www.section1.f2s.com And http://run.to/section1 (http://www.run.to/section1)
sendtosection1@hotmail.com

[DBSP]

Sorry!

------------------
¤monte¤

[A_W]

I`ve just returned from the camping/sports store and bought myself some fine hexamine fuel tablets. The brand is "Coghlan`s". It is a green 10x7x3 cm box with big yellow letters on it saying: FUEL TABLETS. It contains 24 big, white fuel tablets. It cost me 45 nkr, wich is approx. 5$. The tablets are hard, white and not oily at all. I belive it to be pure hexamine. When I was finished grinding them my whole room smelled like fish-oil. They certainley did not smell sweet like candy, but it had a sweetish taste. (don`t worry; they are not poisonus :) ) I will be making some HMTD soon :D

[Arkangel]

Anyone know how pure are the tablets used by the military in the UK?

[RTC]

Pure.

[00Buckshot]

I've tried three different types of hexamine.

-Esbit brand made in Germany. The HMTD worked fine, some wax in the mixture but the wax collected by sticking around the plastic stir stick I used. So I just removed it that way. The problem with the Esbit for me is the store sells it as a cook kit costing $10.99 Canadian. This inculdes a nice little metal stove, and a rather small amount of hex. But it is on the box as Methenamine

-BCB Wild Life mini cooker made in UK, and China. Again comes with a small cooker but made of plastic. Instead of cubes it comes with "chips" of hexamine. And also had some wax content for the same price of $10.99. It said Hexamine on the box.

-Solid Fuel Cooker Tablets, made in Taiwan. I never bothered to buy these until the other day because it didn't say what it contained on the box. So I took a gamble and bought them. As soon as I got in my car I realized they must be hexamine because my car stank of fish. (Much stronger than the other brands) It doesn't even have a company name or anything on the box. Its just black. And contains 8 huge hexamine fuel tabs. I would guess it had 10x's as much than the others. And I didn't have to pay for the stove that I never use. Cost $2.99 Canadian. Also they seem to contain no wax, or at least an unoticable amount. So Im very happy with these.

BTW All were bought from the same surplus store

Has anyone tried the portable toilet cleaner and ammonia yet?

<small>[ April 09, 2002, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: 00Buckshot ]</small>

[S. Toppholzer]

About Esbit:
It doesn't say "Hexamine" ont the cover but "Methenamine".
The packs I am buying have two rows consisting of six tablets each weighing 14 grams - which comes handy since Maga's lab calls for 14 grams :)
I am definately sure that the binder used in Esbit isn't Wax. It's got to be something else - maybe some sort of thermoplast. I once collected it and melted the flakes. After cooling it became really hard and had all properties plastic would have.
My first method of getting rid of that stuff (floats at the surface after the hexamine is dissolved) was dissolving the hexamine in water and recrytallizing it afterwards.
Now I simply dissolve it in H2O2 and filter the liquid through a white coffe filter. No traces are left after filtering and one may commence with the citric acid addition...

[The Great Milenko]

I was looking around my local camping store, and found that they had the same things that you described 00Buckshot, largish block fuel tablets that don't really say much on the packet, I did'nt buy them because I did'nt know if they were hexamine or not, and I did'nt want to waste the money. They had one esbit fuel block left, but it looked really old and it was open and partially cracked so I did'nt buy it either, but in the same store they sell a portable toilet cleaner with either formaldehyde or paraformaldehyde (Can't remember which) in a solution of other crap,I can't remember the conc. of the formaldehyde, I'll have another look today maybe, I guess now I'll just buy the fuel tabs that don't say much on them with the black packaging. I read another thread a while back about someone who tried the formaldehyde and ammonia method just too see if it was worth it, and he said that he got tons of hexamine, perhaps I'll try it, the only thing thats stopping me is that you need really conc ammonia, not just the store bought stuff.

[Zambosan]

Hey GM: the black wrapped fuel bars are most likely trioxane, which is a weakly bound polymerized form of formaldehyde (H2CO). Incidentally, I wonder if anyone has tried synthesizing hexamine using trioxane as a precursor in place of paraformaldehyde? Probably wouldn't be worth it, as the trioxane bars are pretty $$$...
Anyways, you can concentrate the household ammonia yourself, it boils out of solution readily, and is *extremely* soluble in water. Actually, I've collected NH4 gas in a test tube, immersed in water and uncorked, and the water literally rushes into the tube, fuck gravity, just so the ammonia can dissolve in it. Which makes me wonder how you'd redissolve it into the collecting H20 without it rushing into the boiling flask. A search would probably be fruitful, I know this has been discussed.

[kingspaz]

Zambosan, its NH3 not NH4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

[Zambosan]

Doh! Whoops. :)

[mr.evil]

Snipie said:
DarkAngel: where do you buy pure Hexamine (or formaldehyde) in the Netherlands ?? (I’m also from the Netherlands and I have msn, so if it is ok with you I add you to my list.)

if you're around here, can you add me to your MSN?

Synaigo,
Please also send me an e-mail...

[Chaoslord]

Hexamine kinda smells like old piss
then gain it's just my idead :)

here i portugal i can buy almost everything i need

[00Buckshot]

Some very interesting info about hexamine. Info on making homemade hexamine. Info about Hexamine and Hcl reactions.

<a href="http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/methylamine.chemhack.html" target="_blank">http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/methylamine.chemhack.html</a>

[Arkangel]

There's so much info on hexamine around that I'm having trouble sifting through it to answer a question: I was fortunate enough over the weekend to come across quite a few boxes of it that had been dumped. Quite a few of the waxed cardboard boxes had become really soggy, so I'm drying them out now. The hexy inside the boxes that split open seems to be very flaky, almost like slate.

As I said, I'm drying it all out, but does anyone have a view on whether it will have been decomposed in any way by the water? :confused:

(btw, I'm assuming not, since you can use water to purify esbit tablets, it's just that these may well have been wet for considerable time)

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: Arkangel ]</small>

[10fingers]

Water would have no detrimental effect on hexamine.

[kingspaz]

although it is listed as a possible carcinogen due to possible decomposition in moist environments to CH2O and ammonia.

[10fingers]

Arkangel, just to be on the safe side you could recrystallise the hexamine from methanol. That would also get rid of any other impurities like wax that may have been incorporated into it.

[Arkangel]

I will do, thanks. I got quite a few boxes that seem fine, but those that really got damp are all falling apart. Some fool had thrown this lot away I think, I found it in a plastic bag, under some other rubbish, so it could have been there a while.

The contents of the worst boxes have broken up, almost like shale/flaky pastry. It's all still white, but when I went to light one of the flakes, it really spat, was reluctant to light, and wax appeared to be dripping off.

Your advice is well taken, cheers.

[SATANIC]

hexamine is usually hard to light. It's just crap stuff.

using it to cook on (it's 'real' use <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) is a bitch. try it and see. it burns very hot, but puts off toxic fumes.

i use the pure aussie issue stuff (got a few boxes if australians want to trade..) it must be quite pure, but it also seems waxy. i've never used for manufacture of anything but rations.....

[A_W]

From my box of hexamine tabs:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> Theese tablets are made of hexamine, a safe clean burning fuel wich is easy to ignite, smokeless, odorless and non-poisonus. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">I also find hexamine very easy to ignite (just 1-2 seconds with a lighter will ignite them), and I doubt that they're lying about that the tabs are non-poisonus.

Maybe you have bad-quality hex-tabs? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

The fact that hexamine, when heated (I don't know if if would have to be confined or under pressure or something) will emit cyanide fumes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> , makes me quite nervous when using it for It's REAL USE. (Got it from <a href="http://www.roguesci.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000004" target="_blank">this</a> topic.)

[Arkangel]

This is exactly the same military issue hexamine that I've been cooking on (not every day you understand) for 20 odd years, so I have a feel for how it lights normally. My main complaint about the stuff is not so much it's ease of ignition or otherwise, but the fact that it makes your mess tins very sooty.

No, there's something odd happened to some of these packs (I found 40 altogether, and 15 are water damaged, 5 really badly. In the bad ones, the blocks have split like shale, and the slivers are hard to light - as in my kitchen gas cooker struggles to do it, and that's really unusual. It's almost like some of the flammable material has leached away, which I guess might be possible, or it's decomposed perhaps?

[bonnsgeo]

hi.

does somebody know a web site which sale online Esbit tablets in france ? :confused:

thx

[X-Wulf]

Problem with hexamine synthesis:
I tried using mr. evil's recommended ratio of
200ml:450ml / formaldehyde solution:Ammonia,
And ... it didn't work (even after the 24hrs and heating)
This probably has something to do with the fact that the only ammonia solution I can get is "Cloudy Ammonia" which, if I'm not mistaken, is NH3 and HCl, which is therefore NH4Cl instead of the required NH4OH.
The formaldehyde-solution, I got from a chemist, and says on the bottle "34-38% concentration". The ammonia was only "8% mass/mass" and thus probably also had a rather detrimental effect.
Any ideas on other sources of ammonia solutions, or how to purify the cloudy ammonia (Perhaps the addition of sodium hydroxide would allow for an ion exchange ... NH4Cl + NaOH -&gt; NH4OH + NaCl. The NaCl could be removed fairly easily by crystallising and filtering. Would this work?)

[kingspaz]

X-Wulf, if you want to synthesis hexamine then make your ammonia!
NH4NO3 + NaOH ---&gt; NH3 + H2O + NaNO3
you can also use (NH3)2SO4 and NH3Cl. simply mix NaOH with NH4NO3 or another ammonium salt and then add a few drops of water. the NH3 produced can then be bubbles through the methanal (CH2O) solution forming hexamine.

[Richy]

hey satanic, im willin to buy some hexamine! how much exactly? my email is richy_9mm@hotmail.com and i live in melbourne.

[mr.evil]

X-Wulf,

when i made my hexamethyelenetetramine myself, i didn't boil it to get the crystalls, i simply let it dry in the sun. I used 12% NH4OH.
The reason i didn't boil it is because the exremely irritating formaldehyde fumes, i can't boil it outside because my neighbours go complain about a 'strange smell' again..

edit: Typo's

[Aaron-V2.0]

Hello all, I'm proud to say I've finally started gathering essential chemicals for my lab and I may have found a cheap, one time source of Hexamine. Here's how it goes.

I was in the pawnshop downtown looking for a bulletproof vest they had a few months earlier (I figure the vest will add a bit of safety.) and found it has sold. (Damn!) After looking through the store I ended up in the military section, helmets, socks, insignias and the like... In the corner I saw a stack of boxes that said "Compressed Trioxane Fuel Tablets" for only 46 cents! :D At first I think it's a good chance it's Hexamine but then I purchased one pack and opened it. The smell was of alcohol/cologne. :(

The chunk is white with a blueish/purplish tint to it and it feels waxy. Three chunks to a box, each chunk weighs in at 12 grams. I have two pictures on my site for better reference.
<a href="http://aaronewf.tripod.com/hexamine.html" target="_blank">http://aaronewf.tripod.com/hexamine.html</a>

Is this hexamine? :confused: I'd be damn happy if it is since the end cost would be $4.47 for 324 grams! I would just try a HMTD synth but I cant attempt that with my dad around, though I am going to a friends for the weekend soon, could try then.

[irish]

hi Aaron-V2.0
Trioxane is a polymer of formaldehyde do a google on it there is quite a lot of info on it.

[Aaron-V2.0]

Thanks irish, I should've thought of that. *Kicks himself.*

[Darkbloodpriest]

I wouldn't personally know for sure(because I live in the u.s.),
but pyrotek sells formaldehyde and hexamine,
among other things. <a href="Http://www.pyrotek.org" target="_blank">Http://www.pyrotek.org</a>
And, they will supposedly ship outside the
United States a.k.a. europe and etc.
Also, don't you all have schools in that part of the world?
There have to be hobby/science shops SOMEWHERE
around there that teachers get their supplies from.

[Aaron-V2.0]

Huzzah! I've found hexamine in the form of Esbit fuel tablets at my local Big 5. Now I'll be off in a week or two to my friends place for the weekend for the synth. I'll post pictures on my site when I'm done. :)

[EP]

I've heard bad things about Pyrotek, I wouldn't order from them...

I see United Nuclear now sells hexamine at $12/lb:

<a href="http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm" target="_blank">http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm</a>

[SATANIC]

Richy, I've just spotted your request. I'll email in due course. (this is an old topic )

Unfortunately, I have nowhere near as much as I did. (If you leave the boxes in your webbing, they start to disintegrate, so you end up with hexamine crystals / powder mixed with sand and dirt all trough you gear....) :(

anyway, try to find the pure army issue stuff. I'm sure most people know someone in the reserves or cadets. here, even air force cadets get issued the stuff, but not many people actually use it.

small white boxes, with a red "Australian Defence Industries" logo on the front.. I'll post a pic or two when I get home, and get to the scanner.

[knowledgehungry]

Kind of off topic but my AP smells sweet a lot of the time. Is that normal?

[Darkbloodpriest]

I'm also off topic here...but what kind of bad things?
I've never heard bad things from others who have ordered from pyrotek.

[EP]

There was a thread on rec.pyrotechnics where a number of people said they had no problems, but a similar number said they ordered items, paid, and never got anything, even after repeated emails. I also got an email from somebody who ordered fuse, paid, and never got it. His emails were all ignored and he never got anything...

[OUAGADOUGOU]

Hello,
Does anyone know (especialy in Europe)wether heating tablets might contain else than hexamine or trioxane. Because I saw some in a shop, they are coated and don`t have petrolish smell and it is written that they would burn for 12-15 minutes. What else could they be?
Thanx

[SATANIC]

It's very likely they are hexamine. Try to filter / decant the impurities (whatever they might be) from the crystalised hexamine that should be left. Details have been given in this thread. also, since this topic has been revived, I'll post the pic of the pure army issue stuff.

As could be expected, since I scanned the pic (when this topic was last up) they have changed the packaging to incorporate a blue logo, and the full synonym (?) for hexamine.... Tho unfortunately I forgot to grab one of the boxes.

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/scottyg/hexi-tabs.jpg" alt=" - " />