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megalomania
October 4th, 2002, 03:32 AM
In my next round of nitric acid experiments I plan to use both anhydrous ammonia and highly concentrated ammonium hydroxide. After looking over my website, I noticed I don’t have any satisfactorily useful information on the preparation of ammonia. Furthermore, it appears that nowhere else on the net or in books is there a thorough treatise of more than one method of ammonia preparation. As such I am starting this thread to go over the various methods by which ammonia can be prepared in the comfort and safety of ones own home lab, and to put them all in one place.
There are basically two ways of going about ammonia preparation, the in situ generation of ammonia gas as it is needed, and making concentrated ammonium hydroxide solutions. I am ignoring the preparation and storage of pressurized or liquefied ammonia for now as I don’t have much on that, but I will have a write up eventually.
Presented here is a draft of the document as it will appear on my website. If anybody has anything to add to this, or any corrections, please post a reply.

The Preparation of Ammonia

Ammonia is quite useful for a verity of chemical applications, but alas it is not something you can get at the store. The only commercial source of ammonia is on the farm where it is sprayed into the ground as fertilizer.
Industrially ammonia is prepared by the direct combination of hydrogen and nitrogen, themselves obtained from water, air, and natural gas heated to high temperatures and compressed at enormously high pressures. This process is not economical on the laboratory scale, although it can be done at atmospheric pressure with considerable waste of reactants.
It is more convenient to prepare ammonia in the laboratory starting with commercially available ammonium hydroxide, available in any supermarket. There are a few different methods, but they are quite similar. They involve decomposing any ammonium salt with a strong base to liberate ammonia.
Ammonia can either be prepared as a gas, or as a solution of ammonia in water. Depending on your needs the procedure can be modified to fit the application. It is not necessary to use the reagents described here as the presented reactions are quite versatile. Any ammonium salt such as the halide, sulfate, sulfide, nitrate, acetate, and phosphate will work about the same. Furthermore, any strong base such as the hydroxides of sodium, potassium, lithium, or calcium, as well as calcium oxide or carbonate will work.
For matters of economic convenience, using ammonium chloride as the ammonia source, and either calcium oxide (lime), calcium hydroxide (slaked lime), or calcium carbonate (limestone) as the base is best. Ammonium chloride is easily prepared from readily available materials, and slaked lime is quite common as a fertilizer. Please refer to the appropriate precursor sections for synthesis information on ammonium chloride and the calcium compounds.

Equipment Setup
It will be found necessary to have a suitable apparatus setup in place before commencing with ammonia generation. This also applies to having the intended reaction in place and underway, for gaseous ammonia, as it is not easily stored for future use. For preparing aqueous solutions all that is required is a means of bubbling the gas into water. For in situ generation of ammonia the ammonia generator can be affixed to the desired apparatus by an appropriate means.
In either case it is advantageous to assemble a flask to contain the reaction (500 mL should be fine for most applications), a one-hole stopper, a short length of glass tube, and a length of plastic or rubber tubing to convey the ammonia. Insert the short length of glass tubing into the stopper such that the tube is flush with the bottom of the stopper. If you intend to use the ammonia immediately, the tubing may be connected to your apparatus in the usual manner. For aqueous preparations the tubing may be immersed into water. A bubbler or fish aerator is advantageous for this, but certainly not necessary. See the section on ammonium hydroxide solutions below for more information.
For anhydrous ammonia it is necessary to affix a drying apparatus between the generator and the intended reaction. One can use either a drying tube filled with calcium chloride, hydroxide, or other suitable inert drying medium, or one can use a bottle filled with the same that has a two-hole stopper with a long length of glass tubing and a short length. In this manner the ammonia is forced to diffuse through the drying medium whereupon any water present is taken up.

Solid Preparation
The preparation of gaseous ammonia from solid reactants is quite simple. Heating a thoroughly homogenized mixture of an ammonium salt with a base is sufficient to release ammonia. The resulting gas is slightly moist as water is made in the reaction. Passing the gas through a suitable drying medium can easily dry it. Typically the base of choice is any of the calcium compounds with ammonium chloride.
Both the ammonium salt and the base are thoroughly powered separately and then well mixed to make a completely homogeneous mixture. It is important that the two chemicals be finely powered and well mixed because they must interact as much as possible for the reaction to work.
Using calcium oxide produces the least amount of water, about 1 mol for each mol of ammonium chloride reacted. Calcium hydroxide produces 2 moles of water in the same reaction. The use of calcium carbonate poses some special problems. Unfortunately calcium carbonate is the most plentiful version of calcium compounds that can be obtained from retail sources and so is the most logical choice for improvised use. The reaction of calcium carbonate with ammonium chloride actually produces ammonium carbonate in the reaction. As ammonium carbonate is quite unstable under the elevated temperatures of the reaction it decomposes into ammonia. Further information on using calcium carbonate is presented later on.
Example: Separately prepare dry and finely powdered ammonium chloride and calcium hydroxide or calcium oxide. Weigh out a portion of ammonium chloride (ex. 50 g) and an equal mass of calcium oxide (50 g) or 1.5x of calcium hydroxide (75 g). The base exists in roughly twice the molar amount needed to complete the reaction. Mix the two powders as thoroughly as possible and place them in a suitable container as described in equipment setup above. Apply moderate heat to the flask throughout the reaction. Ammonia gas will be released according to the following equations:
2NH4Cl + CaO --> 2NH3 + CaCl2 + H2O; 2NH4Cl + Ca(OH)2 --> 2NH3 + CaCl2 + 2H2O
The exact same reaction setup as above can also be done with calcium carbonate with a few essential modifications. The major difference in using calcium carbonate as the base in the reaction is the production of significant quantities of ammonium carbonate. Ammonium carbonate is actually a mixture of ammonium bicarbonate, NH4HCO3, and ammonium carbamate, NH4NH2CO2, in roughly a 2:1 ratio. The presence of ammonium carbonate will clog an ordinary apparatus and will contaminate a reaction if the ammonia is used as is. A means of condensing the carbonate during ammonia production is essential. The ammonium carbonate can also be completely converted into ammonia with further effort.
The simplest means of condensing the carbonate is to affix a condenser or an empty container similar to the setup for a drying apparatus. An empty bottle immersed in cold water will be sufficient to remove most of the carbonate. This bottle should be closed with a two-hole stopper having a length of glass tubing in each hole. An improvised condenser would accomplish the same purpose a bit better. The wider openings of the condenser provide less chance of becoming clogged. The additional use of a drying tube should remove the last traces of errant carbonate.
Unfortunately the presence of condensed ammonium carbonate on any glass surface of the reaction vessel can lead to breakage. The difference between areas of expansion of coated and uncoated surfaces can lead to great stress on the glass. Substituting a metal container in this reaction will avoid any breakage problems, or disposable glass vessels could be used. As improvised condensers are often made of metal, they are ideal.
Since ammonium carbonate is also a useful source of ammonia it too can become a valuable source instead of a waste product. Adding the entire amount of ammonium carbonate to cold water will dissolve only the carbamate portion leaving ammonium bicarbonate crystals. On exposure to air the carbamate will eventually become ammonium bicarbonate. Bubbling air, or better still carbon dioxide, into this solution will accelerate the process. After a suitable amount of time the crystals of ammonium bicarbonate can be placed into a small amount of water, which is brought to a boil. The high temperatures will decompose the bicarbonate into ammonia, which will pass over along with water vapor. See the section on ammonium hydroxide solutions below for more information on preparing ammonia this way.

Aqueous Preparation
A weak ammonia solution, about double the concentration of that which can be purchased in the stores, can be made by conducting the reaction in the aqueous state. A saturated solution of ammonium chloride at room temperature holds about 0.5 moles per 100 mL. Adding this solution to an equal molar mass of base will produce an ammonia solution of about 8.5%. After allowing sufficient time for the reaction to be completed the ammonia solution can be boiled to expel the ammonia. This process can also be conducted with straight ammonium hydroxide although increasingly larger amounts of water vapor will be released at lower ammonia concentrations.
Using soluble alkali bases, such as sodium or potassium hydroxide, is best for this type of reaction. Calcium hydroxide will take longer as it is not very soluble in water. However, the presence of ammonium chloride will increase its solubility. Calcium oxide will react to form calcium hydroxide when in solution, which works the same way. Calcium carbonate is insoluble in water, so it is unacceptable for aqueous preparations.
Example: Dissolve 25 g of ammonium chloride into 100 mL of tepid water in a small flask or bottle. Add 35 g of calcium hydroxide or 19 g of sodium hydroxide to the solution. Cap the flask and set it aside for a few hours to allow time for the reaction to go to completion. The rate of reaction of calcium hydroxide may take longer, but it can be assumed to have gone to completion when most material has dissolved. This reaction will prepare ammonium hydroxide and either calcium chloride or sodium chloride depending on which starting material is used.

Ammonium Hydroxide Solutions
Ammonium hydroxide is the old name for solutions of ammonia dissolved in water. There is actually no such compound as ammonium hydroxide, but by convention that is what it is called. The best means of storing ammonia in an improvised lab is by dissolving it into water. Water can hold a considerable volume of ammonia at lower temperatures. At room temperature a 31% ammonia solution can be had, at 0 degrees C the concentration can be up to 47%. Commercially ammonia solutions are between 20-30%.
When heated these solutions readily give up ammonia gas. At higher concentrations more ammonia will be released with less heat. This is important as the amount of water vapor also rises with more heat. By gently heating a highly concentrated ammonium hydroxide solution a steady quantity of moist ammonia gas can be prepared. This gas can be dried quite easily by passing it through a drying agent. Lower concentrations of ammonium hydroxide are more difficult to dry because of the increased volume of water present. By varying the heat and ammonium hydroxide concentration a steady amount of ammonia gas can be generated as needed.
To prepare a highly concentrated ammonium hydroxide solution set up a series of bottles filled with water. Place a long and short length of glass tube into a two-hole stopper affixed to the bottles. The long end can have a bubbler attached to it to improve the solubility of ammonia. The short length of tube should not go under the surface of the water. The bottles should be connected with plastic or rubber tubing with the short tube of one bottle attached to the long tube of another. In this manner the ammonia gas will be bubbled into the first bottle, any excess will pass into the next bottle, and so on. This setup will help to minimize any waste of ammonia. At the bare minimum one can stick a length of tubing into a bucket of water.
The ammonia source can be either the solid or aqueous preparations above, or from a weaker ammonium hydroxide solution. As previously mentioned it is more difficult to do this with weak solutions such as grocery store ammonium hydroxide. The ammonia generator is connected to the first bottle in the series and the reaction is commenced.
The longer this reaction is conducted the more bottles that will be needed. Eventually the first bottle will become completely saturated, while the secondary bottles will have decreasing concentrations. Cooling the water bottles, or more appropriately only the first bottle can increase the maximum concentration.

Drying Ammonia
The best drying agent for ammonia gas containing traces of water vapor is calcium oxide. Calcium oxide will remove considerable amounts of water while remaining unaffected by ammonia. Other suitable drying agents include potassium or sodium hydroxide, potassium carbonate, aluminum oxide, calcium sulfate, magnesium perchlorate, and magnesium oxide. The use of calcium chloride is not recommended as ammonia can react with it.

rikkitikkitavi
October 4th, 2002, 01:33 PM
Im a bit surprised that it seems hard to find ammonia OTC in USA, since you so readily can buy sulfuric acid as drain cleaner and many other chemicals restricted in Sweden. (I can get 5 liter 25 % NH3 for 10 € in most pain shops)

Anyway I have a couple of proposals to make in the manufacturing of NH3 gas.

Ammonium sulfate decompose upon gently heating according
(NH)4SO4 => NH4HSO4(l) + NH3(g) (@150 C)

NH4HSO4 in solution or molten is very corrosive towards metals.
The NH4HSO4 can be further reacted with Ca(NO3)2 to CaSO4,NH4NO3 and HNO3!
Both (NH4)2SO4 and Ca(NO3)2 are available as fertilizer, the former getting more and more rare. NH4Cl can also be available in some shops selling fertilizers.

Urea decomposes into Isocyanuric acid and NH3 at roughly 200C. I have a excellent PDF describing the mecanism which I will upload to the FTP. The name of the file is a9908sch.pdf , and can probably be found by Google (that is how I found it by searching for Urea + decomposition)

Neither decomposition releases water at the temperatures given.

/rickard

<small>[ October 04, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: rikkitikkitavi ]</small>

megalomania
October 4th, 2002, 01:59 PM
Do you think you could calculate a yield based on the cost of urea in your area, rikkitikkitavi? The reason I ask is I am trying to find the cheapest source of ammonia possible for various areas. I don't have any pure urea in my area that I have priced, just mixtures. I just wonder if the urea route can beat $0.99 a gallon for 4% ammonia.

rikkitikkitavi
October 4th, 2002, 03:30 PM
I was reading through the article again and found out that a numerous types of reactions take place.
I also made a few errors reading and interpreting the article, a mistake I often do being one eager bastard....

NH2-CO-NH2 =&gt; NH3(g) + HNCO (g) (isocyanic acid) takes place at lower temp than stated. (150C)

The NH3 and HNCO reacts forming NH4NCO which decomposes at higher temperatures. This is probably going to cause a lot of losses of NH3.

At higher temperatures more complex pathways comes in place.
Some involve forming water so the previous statement that water wasnt formed is not true. I recommend reading the article...
One major reaction is which is binding up HNCO.
H2N-CO-NH2 + HNCO &lt;=&gt; H2N-CO-NH-CO-NH2 (biuret)

Biuret can decompose in various ways but reaction rate is slow below
200 C.

I make the conclusion that producing NH3 from Urea maybe isnt as feasible as I thought first because of the reactions.

But as for a comparision:
I dont have the price for Urea, but I assume that it isnt more expensive than other N-fertilizers which costs about 25-30€ for a 50 kg bag. Given this rough estimate and the first reaction and 100 % yield.

50 kg = 50000/60 = 833 moles giving 833 moles NH3 or 14 kg or 14/0,04 = 365 kg 4 % solution (for 25 €)

I hope this is of some help

/rickard

Boob Raider
October 5th, 2002, 06:03 PM
Don't take me in the wrong way guys but if you have ever been to one of those public piss cans that are very rarely cleaned then you must have noticed a strong ammonical smell whose source is the urinal. Actually what it is, is when the urea from our piss concentrates a kind of bacteria grows on it which breaks urea down by urease into NH3 and CO2. That to me looks like the most economical way for producing NH3. Fermenting Piss in a pot with a dash of urease producing bacteria :D . Also that would leave a lot of phosphates overtime for WP extraction in a wood burning stove. I don't have a source of that bacteria but .... one was to ferment a strong solution of urea or piss with a teaspoon of garden soil, a little bit of NH3 soln and nothing else, only urealytic bacteria should grow in it.

megalomania
October 5th, 2002, 08:02 PM
Economical, yes. Practical, no. Disgusting, yes. Hygenic, no. That reminds me of a bit I read about the original alchemical preperation of phosphorus using two hogs heads worth of animal urine allowed to putrify for a few months, boiled down to a paste, and processed. Oh god I don't feel well, imagining a big bucket of skanky putrid animal urine isn't doing it for me.

Boob Raider
October 6th, 2002, 03:10 AM
Mega I didn't mean to really use piss unless one can't find Urea ..... otherwise fertilizer grade urea would work very well. I am not too sure but if one was to heat protein in an alkali .... the amino group is liberated as NH3 (I am not suggesting this as an economical source just one of those extreme sources). Other economical and a self-sustaining NH3 producing system would contain nitrogen fixation bacteria. I think peanut plants have nodules on their roots which are rich in these bacterias. The system whuld only need some essential micronutrients, H2O and N2 bubbling through it. But as far as the K.I.S.S thingy goes .... NH4+ salts work well.
Oh BTW the most disgusting I heard off was the old methods of the extraction of testosterone. Some chineese clan/tribe whatever used testosterone as an aphrodasiac (sp?). To obtain 100g of crude crystals the had to concentrate 600L of piss by boiling and constant stiring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . Eeeeewww !!!!

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Boob Raider ]</small>

vir sapit qui pauca loquitur
October 6th, 2002, 12:55 PM
i thought that testosterone was too large to pass across the basement membrane within the nefron of the human kidney ???

The way in which the french concentrated arsenic:
poison a sow, pour arsenic powder onto body, collect putrid fluid and boil that down to have some "biologically concentrated" form of arsenic

do you like the idea of collecting rotting pig fluid :( makes me feel quite queasy !

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: vir sapit qui pauca loquitur ]</small>

kingspaz
October 6th, 2002, 06:12 PM
the worst part is i actually have that smell in my head because i found a rotting seal on the beach once...fucking hell, nothing smells worse than rotting flesh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

Boob Raider
October 7th, 2002, 10:26 AM
We piss out quite a bit of large molecules. Little bit is normal but larger quantities is not so I guess thats why they need roughly 600kg of piss to get 0.1kg (0.017%)of the stuff that makes us horny. We piss uric acid and pheromones too and they are big molecules, much bigger than sugars. Although pheromones attract the opposite sex, the use of piss, however, is not recomended. If you need pheromones use sweat for extraction .... way better than piss (don't ask me how this is done cause I am not quite getting laid 10 times in a day) :D .
Anyways back to NH3 sorry Mega for the smelly piss tangent :p .

Marvin
October 9th, 2002, 01:37 AM
I have the greatest respect for what you have done here mega (forums, your site, the organising). But some of your sources stink worse than kingspaz's rotting seal. I'm a far from perfect chemist myself and on this forum I'm in the company of a fair number of very competant chemists including yourself, which was why I joined. I am very well read on inorganic nitrogen chemistry, its something of a speciality of mine, so I think I can make some reliable suggestions, at least in terms of theory. In practice, its often different, and I'm less well covered in that respect.

At atmospheric pressure Id expect the haber bosche process to yeild nothing detectable. You never waste gas, as the waste gas is always in the right proportion for ammonia production regardless of how much ammonia has been produced. The only tricky bit is pumping in the right amount of extra gas to maintain this from small imbalences.

Quote "Any ammonium salt such as the halide, sulfate, sulfide, nitrate, acetate, and phosphate will work about the same"

There is a big difference between ease of liberation of ammonia between them, and other problems. Sulphide is a very weak acid, and you would expect a lot of sulphide impurity in the product, its also very voltile which makes the problem much worse. Heating the dry salt with a half decent base is likley to occur at quite a high temperature, ammonium chloride is also quite voltaile.

Quote "Furthermore, any strong base such as the hydroxides of sodium, potassium, lithium, or calcium, as well as calcium oxide or carbonate will work."

Calcium hydroxide isnt a strong base, I suspect this would work in the presense of boiling water, but not very well under the conditions described. CaO should produce the least water this is true, but I would expect this to be a very difficult reaction to get to work properly. I think much easier reaction would be a caustic alkali with the salt and add water and heat. Ammonium nitrate seems to be the best producer of the salts Ive tried, better than the sulphate, but since I can get the sulphate much easier, thats what Ive used in the past.

Calcium carbonate. I didnt think this would work at all,at least in the case of ammonium chloride, rather suprisingly, it does. I think what is going on, is when the salt sublimes it disociates in the vapour phase. The HCl generated attacks the carbonate, liberating carbon dioxide, and water. This is the mixture that results from the salt. Id expect the product to be potentially contaminiated by unreacted NH4Cl.

Quote "After a suitable amount of time the crystals of ammonium bicarbonate can be placed into a small amount of water, which is brought to a boil. The high temperatures will decompose the bicarbonate into ammonia, which will pass over along with water vapor"

It will decompose into ammonia, water and 2 carbon dioxide, which will mess up whatever the ammonia is intended for.
Consequently this isnt a method of seperating the ammonia from the salt at all, since it is a salt, you need a base, may I suggest Ca(OH)2 and decanting. :D

The ammonia generator, regardless of what method it uses needs a trap to protect it from sucking up water. Ammonia is very soluable, and this can force water very quickly into the reaction vessle. This is a common problem when generating soluable gasses and with dry salt methods usually results in the destruction of the hot glass containor. An empty container 'backwards' to the normal way youd bubble a gas through a liquid works very well provided its at least the same volume as the liquid dissolving the gas.

Avoid using a pump, with the liquid method and a little heat it will generate a substantial pressure of ammonia. Pumps corrode, and its another thing to go wrong. Drying materials. CaCl2 forms adducts with water (which is why its useful) and also with alcohols and ammonia. Using this to dry ammonia is a very common mistake on the internet. CaO supposidly will do ok, Ive been told it also forms adducts with alcohols, but this seems to be ok for ammonia, it has a low ultimate partial pressure of water, but its supposed to be very slow acting. My personal favourate is anhydrous MgSO4, cheep, easy to dry, lower H2O partial pressure than CaCl2 and as far as I can tell pretty inert. A better drying agent is previosly fused KOH If you are after completely anhydrous ammonia I suspect this will not be dry enough and I cant think of anything offhand that will do a better job unless you can get sodium metal or NaNH2.
Ive just looked up the partial pressures and CaCl2 is a pretty crappy drying agent, its 3 orders of magnetude behind fused KOH. For most reactions fused KOH will provide easily adiquate drying, use a predrier of your choice to vastly reduce the work it has to do.

Quote "Unfortunately the presence of condensed ammonium carbonate on any glass surface of the reaction vessel can lead to breakage. The difference between areas of expansion of coated and uncoated surfaces can lead to great stress on the glass."

I have no idea where you got this from, its not right. Glass will expand the same amount reglardless of what its caoted with. Glass will generally only break due to ununiform heating. Pyrex has a very low thermal expansion and is virtually free from this. Heating thick soda glass is just asking for trouble.

Quote "A saturated solution of ammonium chloride at room temperature holds about 0.5 moles per 100 mL. "

There is no reason to be limited to the amount of ammonium salt you can dissolve in water. Dissolve the strong base and add to the solid ammonium salt/more powdered strong base as required. The reaction will proceed very readily and ammonium chloride will dissolve and sodium chloride will precipitate as ammonia is evolved. Ammonia solutions can be made vastly stronger this way than the ammonia will dissolve at room temperature.

Quote "Calcium hydroxide will take longer as it is not very soluble in water"

Thats definatly true, but it neglects a major reason. As its a pretty weak base its preferentially kicked out from solution by the ammonia/ammonium hydroxide base, due to the equilibrium between calcium hydroxide, calcium ions and hydroxide ions. As a result a much lower concentration of ammonia dorms in solution and must be expelled before more can form. Capping the flask when calcium hydroxide is used will thus not go to completion.

Quote "Ammonium hydroxide is the old name for solutions of ammonia dissolved in water."

Actually spirit of hartshorn is the *old* name for ammonia in water, ammonium hydroxide is distinctly new in comparason. Ok, I'm being unfair here, but this applies to what I have to say next.

Quote "There is actually no such compound as ammonium hydroxide"
This is quote wrong, there is no *solid* substance as ammonium hydroxide at room temp but it does exist in solution. I'll furthur admit that ammonia in water solution is by far mostly on the left side of the following equilibrium,
NH3(aq) + H2O &lt;=&gt; NH4+ + OH-
But to say it doesnt exist isnt true.

Quote "Other suitable drying agents include potassium or sodium hydroxide, potassium carbonate, aluminum oxide, calcium sulfate, magnesium perchlorate, and magnesium oxide. The use of calcium chloride is not recommended as ammonia can react with it."
Youve mentioned ammonia reacts with it, but not corrected its use furthur up in the text. This list contains a wide range of drying agents, with a list like this you should add how good they are. Aluminium oxide isnt a drying agent to all intents and purposes, its a glassy inert material which several gemstones are made out of. The CRC rating is based on adsorbtion, same way activiated charcol works. This should should be left out as its completely impractical.

Mass water in dried air.
Anhydrous magnesium perchlorate, unweighable in 210 litres.
Fused KOH, 2mg/litre
Fused NaOH 14mg/litre
CaO 3mg/lite (but slow acting, my comment)
anhy CaSO4 5mg/litre

I hope these commends are constructive, and are recived in the spirit that was intended. I'm also very curios what you want anhydrous ammonia *for*, just oxidising it to nitric oxide to make nitric acid? or are you planning a reaction in liquid ammonia? or making azides? Give us some hints. This seems a bit extreme for just nitric acid.

Have you checked Mellor volume 8/2 about ammonia production? Its usually quite exhaustive. If not I'm willing to OCR just that section when my new scanner is next setup. My old scanner had an accident involving a screwdriver and a curios mind. I havnt read the section recently, I will and if it adds to or contradicts anything Ive said I will amend or add to this post as apropriate.

Edited due to gaping great blunder.

<small>[ October 09, 2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Marvin ]</small>

megalomania
October 9th, 2002, 04:04 PM
The means of producing ammonia via the Haber-Bosche process is not in reference to any industrial method, but rather to an improvised process. The simplest means of doing so is to run hydrogen and nitrogen gas into heated steel wool. The yields are pitiful as the amount of unreacted is vast, all of which is quite difficult to recover on a “simple’ improvised setup. This does work, I have setup a system myself, which is why I do not recommend it.

Of course those other salts react different. About the same as in the same reaction mechanism and formula. That is exactly why I have not used those compounds in my examples. The document is not meant to be an exhaustive treatise, only an improvides means of producing ammonia in a down and dirty way.

I have direct references the use calcium compounds. I have the very same compounds in my lab and I will be adding to this document considerably experimental results. I am not satisfied with the references myself, and I want to add some pictures as well to support my descriptions. All of the ammonia does indeed form from thermal decomposition, to mention so is unnecessary when the end product is ultimately ammonia. I have a considerable amount of references (all quite old) that use calcium carbonate.

The use of bicarbonate was never intended to be for the direct production of ammonia, but thaks for the reminder of the CO<sub>2</sub>. I shall clarify my document more in the next draft.

You are right about the trap. I have one in my own setup but did not mention it in my writeup. I shall add it in the next draft.

The presence of condensed carbonate was a rather vague warning that I did not iterate well enough in my draft. It has to do with the possibility of the glass cooling before the carbonate does, or perhaps it was the other way around. Ever heat a beaker and accidentally set it down on the counter? When it cools suddenly it can shatter. This is the same principal. I will have to find the reference again as I forget which cools faster. Perhaps the presence of water vapor can rapidly cool the carbonate leading to shattering. Either way I saw several references that suggested using only metal containers, no glass. I am unwilling to experiment on this front, standard taper condensers do not come cheap. I will save this for my pickle jar and beer bottle portion.

You are right about the ammonium salts not needing to be dissolved before the reaction proceeds. This is in fact what I had in mind for the calcium hydroxide. The solid remains undissolved and the reaction proceeds with it dissolving along the way. This may not fully react, but it will go to completion in its own way. Indeed I will try this through experimentation. It is not a very useful reaction anyway, so I may replace it with something more suitable.

I am not so sure. I remember a chemistry lecture some years ago that distinctly said no such thing as ammonium hydroxide exists. I suppose your one of those people who says glass is a liquid? :)

Spirits of hartshorn is getting a bit medieval I think. I don’t consider any chemistry before the 18th century to be of much value personally. Not even trickster marketers of today with their vague chemical synonyms would label an ingredient that way.

The list of drying agents is provided for improvised use with the hope that at least one thing on the list will be available to people. You are right though, I should list their absorptive properties so they may be stacked up against one another. I did remove the bit about calcium chloride after I made the post, but on my document not in the post.

As to what I intend to use the ammonia for, the answer is “yes.” Yes to nitric acid, yes to liquid ammonia, yes to azides. The document though is intended for broad applications. It is not written for me, but for anybody who would want ammonia for whatever purpose they may intend.

My library does not have Mellor’s (A comprehensive treatise on inorganic and theoretical chemistry) but I can request it via interlibrary loan.

Thanks for the valuable feedback, it was just what I am looking for. I hope that my next draft will include experimental results to back up my information, as well as more useful references and clairifications.

Marvin
October 15th, 2002, 01:48 PM
Their are much rarer books you could get with interlibrary loan, Mellors is quite common here, I will scan some of the sections as soon as my scanner is running. The Mellor set and myself have plans for extended 'quality time' anyway.

Water vapour from a flask condensing and running back has killed a lot of rhetorts, this sounds like the problem. For what its worth I consider glass a 'solid solution'. :D

gliper
October 27th, 2003, 11:06 PM
This gave me 2 ideas, 1 mabe Ca(NO3)2 or at least KNO3 + (AN4)2SO4 under some condition = CaSO4 and AN4NO3.

2nd (AN4)2SO4 and (AN4)OH or better uria are composted with OUT ashes, (AN4) go's to NO3 as always but the (X)SO4 combin with all of the metalic ions NO3 normally combines with leving ether HNO3 or far more likely AN4NO3 or uria NO3.

gliper
November 1st, 2003, 04:19 AM
Sorry, I was in a hurry when I wrote that post by (AN4) I ment NH4. To late to edit it.

blindreeper
November 1st, 2003, 04:46 AM
It was only 4 days ago and you had the last reply in the topic. If you would have edited no one would have know!
For all newbies!
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-11/464886/whatyoudidwrong.JPG

Yay the big 200 posts!

Rhadon
November 1st, 2003, 06:12 AM
It really was too late to edit that post, normal users can only edit them for a certain time.

blindreeper
November 1st, 2003, 07:04 AM
Oh sorry my bad :( All that work making and uploading that beautiful image for nothing.

megalomania
September 5th, 2004, 06:58 PM
Recently it has come to my attention that a local agriculture company sells urea in vast quantities. I was just reading up on ammonia preperation methods again and I came accross several methods of urea hydrolysis methods. I now see this has already been mentioned here.

If the calculation by rikkitikkitavi relating the number of moles available from urea vs. 4% ammonium hydroxide is correct than it would cost about $90 to buy enough 1 gallon jugs of hydroxide to equal the same ammonia in 50 kg of urea for $40 (25 pounds stirling thereabouts). While I do not recall the price of the urea, I do not think it is nearly that expensive. $15 for a 50 lb (22.5 kg) sack sounds about right, making it around $33 for 50 Kg.

I am going to try and experiment with this particular method. According to my research a 50% wt/wt urea in water solution heated to 155 C should give maximum volume of ammonia at near 100% conversion. At what pressure this will be I do not know, that's one of the things I need to find out. Another problem I do not as of yet see a solution to is how to add more urea solution into the pressurized reaction vessel. Getting optimal ammonia flow will require much experimentation because there are many conditions that can be varied to produce more or less ammonia.

(1)The higher the concentration of urea in solution the greater the mass of ammonia generated per unit time.
(2)The higher the temperature the greater the mass of ammonia generated per unit time.
(3)The higher the temperature the higher the pressure, and the higher the pressure the faster the ammonia velocity.

A steady flow rate of fresh urea solution into the boiler held at a steady temperature will produce a consistent flow of ammonia. Then the pressure can be adjusted accordingly to speed up or slow down the ammonia so it can achieve the optimal residence time over the platinum catalyst when making ammonia.

Would anyone happen to know how to lower the pressure of such a system to slow the gas down? Would a pipe of large volume be enough? I don't know enough about chemical engineering to know what exactly to do here. For example heating a boiling water solution to 155 C may get the pressure up to 10 atm or more, way to high I would think. If all I need is say 2 or 3 atm of pressure passing over the catalyst how can I lower the pressure? Or can I lower the pressure of the boiler by using a smaller tank, like a pipe vs. a 15 gallon tank?

Dave Angel
September 5th, 2004, 10:52 PM
mega: I wonder if you could include coolant pipes in the boiler somehow. By altering the rate of flow of coolant you could therefore change how much of the water is in vapor form and thus the pressure.

You would need many pipes of large surface area to effect a good, responsive control, and some serious welding may be in order, the result being a 'grid' of pipes crossing the top of the boiler chamber. I hope you can see what I mean from this description, I've drawn a very crude picture to help convey my idea.

UK members should be able to find a readily available OTC source of NH4Cl in the form of "Witch" powder (a chimney cleaner iirc) at Wilko's. I have some somewhere, hopefully with the price label still on, so when I find it I'll give more details about it (price and mass).

(edit) Witch is a "soot and smoke abater" and comes in a green/white packet, with a black witches hat on the front. It costs 89p for this 175g packet of ammonium chloride - cheaper per kilo than even bulk bought lab supply I have access to.

If anyone wanted to be daring and liquefy their ammonia then readily available dry ice has a low enough temperature to do it. I believe that LPG propane tanks (NOT butane however) should hold it as propane has the same vapor pressure as ammonia at a lower temperature, although this is only theory so there are likely flaws in the idea.

Dry ammonia is unreactive towards metals (from the MSDS), although if there was moisture in the system your container might be endangered so you would really have to dry it well.

There is also the task of getting it into the container, and this where the whole idea might just be a dream. I know little about this, but I have a feeling that one would need a pressurised source of liquid ammonia in order to fill the tank, which is going to lead to a catch 22 situation.

(edit) I've just looked at some lab supply catalogues and the more I think about it... it's probably a bad idea to attempt to refill containers with liquid ammonia. Properly constructed stainless steel containers are required, and the regulators, valves and such should probably all have PTFE components so that they don't get destroyed by NH3. But, then again, if you can afford the right gear then go for it!

Just some food for thought anyway. I hope at least the OTC source will be of use for some.

megalomania
September 7th, 2004, 06:30 AM
Clandestine drug makers use propane cylinders all the time to store ammonia. The valve screws off leaving a pretty decent opening that you could fill with liquid ammonia via a funnel. The downside to using these is many tend to use brass parts that will corrode over time. Fortunatly in the US you can exchange propane cylinders for new ones.

I am starting to think using urea as an instant ammonia generator may be a bit more difficult than I first expected. The list of equipment required to do this keeps going up and getting more expensive. While I am sure this can be done I am not yet at the point where I need to spend $1000 designing an ammonia delivery system when I have yet to determine if the catalytic nitric process even works. Adhering to the KISS moto will have to do. Using urea as an ammonia source is still a good idea I think. I will have to do some economic calculations once I get some measurable yields.

As such there are already excellent instructions provided by the Hive for the liquifaction of gaseous ammonia by dry ice. The ammonia is passed through a drying tower and liquified in a cold trap kept cool by dry ice and acetone. Simple and effective. One would then adjust the size of their catalyst to be useful over the pressure range of liquified ammonia stored at room temp in a tank.

Dave Angel
September 7th, 2004, 06:19 PM
The same applies here in the UK, cylinders can be exchanged. One will have to pay for the refill, (lest questions be asked about why one wants an empty cylinder), and then use up the propane, so pairing this with a propane burning furnace project may be a good idea. In fact, the cost of a propane refill is minimal so simply burning it off would be no great financial loss.

A couple of useful links for those going down this route...

A rhodium page on the liquefaction of ammonia:

http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/eleusis/ammonia.html

And a supplier's ammonia page, the data on the page being the useful part:

http://www.airliquide.com/en/business/products/gases/gasdata/index.asp?GasID=2

I searched the Hive and there is a thread (https://www.the-hive.ws/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Number=51521&Search=true&Cat=&Threads=&Search_simple=&Name_simple=&Text_simple=&Name=&Subject=&Body=&Text=ammonia%20propane&Usertitle=&Signature=&RateRemark=&PostNo=&Limit=25&DateFrom=menu&DateTo=menu&From=all&To=now&FromDate=12-31-97&ToDate=09-07-04%2022%3A14&TypePost=on&TypeDigest=on&RateMinus=&RateNeutral=on&RatePlus=on&Order=date&Sort=DESC&Preview=on&PreviewChar=500&NoHelp=0&SearchID=mQq6djxMqsbmeWww&URLForums=All_Forums%3Don&Cache=1&Searchpage=2) in which a poster details how to prepare a propane tank to hold ammonia, which may be of some use.

nbk2000
September 9th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Is there any way of dry disassociating the urea into ammonia? As ammonia-salts react with a base to liberate the gas, wouldn't the ammonia containing urea do the same?

megalomania
September 10th, 2004, 02:19 AM
Urea can be directly decomposed, dry, by heating past the melting point, but the reaction is far more efficient in the presence of water. Urea technicially is not an ammonia salt, so it will not react like the other usual suspects will in producing ammonia with a base. In fact the urea decomposition works even better in acidic conditions, of course that is of no practical value in most instances since the acid will be neutralized by the ammonia. Adding a strong base like sodium or potassium hydroxide will act as a catalyst in the reaction causing more ammonia to form at a lower temperature. The best catalyst, though, is vanadium pentoxide.

nbk2000
September 10th, 2004, 03:20 PM
Isn't vanadium available at the ceramics suppliers as a glaze coloring or such? If so, then just using a dry mix of urea and vanadium at atm. pressures would be far more preferable than needing high-pressure steam vessels.

megalomania
September 14th, 2004, 10:00 PM
Vanadium acts as a catalyst in the hydrolysis reaction only. In a dry mix it is no longer a catalyst, but a reactant, and as a reactant it would noit be a strong base.

The problem with directly decomposing urea is the yield is much less than the aqueous reaction. To get the most for your money the pressure process is the winner. I am going to try to find my pressure cooker this weekend and see what temp I get.

Incidently I bought a 40 lb bag of urea for $9.50. I also found this gem of government propaganda: http://www.tfi.org/TFImeth05.pdf Save the moral fiber of the US, just say no to ammonia!