Sodium Party

[a_bab]

I recently found a site concerning collecting of chemical elements. The autor bought three and half pounds of Na from e-bay (100 b dollars), and then he set up a Sodium Party. Basically, he dropped into the water about 2 pounds of it, in chunks ranging from 50 grams to 175 grams, into various containers of water. The page is fully documented with lots of pics and movies. The efect of a big chunk in water is a huge explosion instead of the fizzling blob running above the water surface. The link is here (http://www.theodoregray.com/PeriodicTable/Stories/011.2/index.html) .

Any comments ?

[irish]

good clips on that site,
a mate of mine put a block of sodium about 3x3 Cm in a school swimming pool when he was a kid, the pool was full of kids one second later they were all out :D .
The result looked very much like the video in the lake, remarkably no one was hurt just had the shit scared out of them.
As I can think of much better things to do with it, it is an awful wast of sodium to one who can't get any tho.

[The Crazed]

the site is realy cool. I have been looking for a good place to buy some pure sodium or pure potassium but all I can find is realy small pieces that are like only 15g. I cant find something bigger and I was hoping someone could help me here.

[Trinitrotoluene]

That site is really cool, nice explosions made by the sodium too. I can't really get my hands on sodium metal mainly becauses it seems a bit expensive, and I'm a pretty cheap person. But I hope when I order a transformer I can make my own sodium through electrolysis of sodium hydroxide.

[simply RED]

Before 3 years, a friend of mine "get" some sodium (600-800 grams). The sodium was in form of cylinders, about 250 grams each, all 3 cylinders were in a big jar.
We get to the nearest water chanel, I leak the petrol on ground, and threw the jar in the water. About 5 seconds nothing and then, 3 huge blasts, with less than a second interval between. Very much smoke and fire, smoke was mainly NaOH, Na2CO3. So my friend had very bad coughing and headache 2 days after this.
We also tried to use some Na for fishing- with no success.

[vulture]

Do not throw alkali metals into swimming pools or water in which people swim! Not only because of the explosion hazard, but also because of the formation of NaOH, which will quickly achieve a high concentration in the water.

For example, 1M NaOH solution already has a pH of 14.

[Leadazide]

Sounds like the perfect reason to throw Na into a pool full of people! :)

[Leviathan569]

When I was in college some moron almost blew up the entire lab with sodium. We were preparing sodium ethanolate. The sodium we used was in the form of small pellets, submersed in hexane. The dude that caused the accident was working too slow and by the time he prepared his setup, it was too late to get started. He decided to dispose the sodium and just prepare a new bathch the next week. What did he do? He just dumped it in the sink and then tried to flush it with water! Two liters of hexane and 50 grams of sodium! A fireball blasted from each sink in the lab. Miraculously, nobody got hurt.

[Xioa]

A mix of sodium and calcium metal can be prepared relatively easy (easier than trying to make pure sodium) by dissolving 40% NaCl and 60% Ca2Cl in water and recrystalizing it (to get an intimate mix). Once dry, heat up to it's melting point (~590 C) and electrolyze it. Beware because Cl gas is evolved. This method is easier because the mixture melts at a much lower temperature than pure NaCl (~800 C for 100% NaCl). Of course, the drawback is that you get quite a bit calcium metal, but it can be extracted out.

[chemoleo]

Well well, a swimming pool of i.e. 5 x 10 x 2 m would contain 100 tonnes of water (=100000 litres). a couple of pounds of sodium surely wont get the pH high enough to hurt... unless you were so unlucky as to receive some spattering hot NaOH straight into your eyes! So yes, I wouldnt recommend dropping it into a pool full of people!
Be a lot more carefule with potassium, last winter I found it would spontaneously ignite on snow! with lots of spattering!

[vulture]

Let's say someone throws about 50g of sodium into a pool with pH = 7 (usually it isn't because of ClO-), at 23g/mole Na that is ~2,17 mole of Na.

2Na + 2H₂O --> H₂ + 2NaOH

So we have 2,17mole OH^-/1x10⁵L = 2,17x10^-5 mol/L

pOH = - log [OH^-] = - log 2,17x10^-5 = 4,66

pH = 14 - pOH = 14 - 4,66 = 9,34

[MightyQuinn®]

Let's say someone throws about 50g of sodium into a pool with pH = 7

This is assuming all 50g of Sodium stays in the pool. Any material (Sodium) ejected beyond the edge of the water from the initial reaction would alter the calculations.

[atlas#11]

Thats theoretical, the point is it would do damage. Think what the pool guy's face would look like when he went to test the Ph( :eek: )! Though it would be entertaining to see it would be fairly stupid as their is no reason to do so and it is wastefull of good sodium, I guess we all have our days though.

I have been wanting to prepare pure alkali metals for a while now but I cant find a good high temp crucible to use. Does anybody know a good place to find them other than on the internet? I will just throw one in next time I go to order some glassware which will be a while, but those videos have sparked my intrest, I want to do it now.

[Xioa]

My chemistry teacher had us use Coors crucibles for one lab. He said that they make the best high temp porcelain for the money they cost. If there's a Coors factory nearby, maybe you can buy some crucibles from there. Here's an internet shop link with some Coors crucibles: http://www.labsafety.com/store/dept.asp?dept_id=552

[ikbendirk]

Would the same thing be possible with solid Lithium bricks?
I know Lithium reacts way less violent than sodium does, but they are quite big (say, 3 x 3 x 15 cm) so do you think they would explode? I know I can try it out myself, which I will, but if someone can assure me it will not explode, what's the point trying :P?

[EDIT:]

Ok, I couldn't wait, so I tried it and guess what; it didn't explode :(
I guess lithium just isn't reactive enough :(

[K'Luuppo]

If one melts the NaCl, it will be some ~900-1000 C no problem. But then you electrolyze it, resulting 900-1000 C sodium, which will be in gaseous form (boiling point 883 C). Somehow I have a feeling that hot sodium gas will react with something. If not with water, then with oxygen.

[Jacks Complete]

Having had lots of arguements with people over the years, I can state that even small bits of Sodium will explode.

The best way to get it to work is to put a bit on the floor, and add a small drop of water. This will react quite fast, and give off lots of heat. This melts the Sodium, and so when you throw a full bucket on it, it will explode very violently! Watch out for secondary explosions!

[a_bab]

Yeah, that happened to me aswell. I once throw a small piece on Na in the toiled for fun. It was really small (like a corn seed). I spit afterwards directly on it and it exploded very violently. That was pretty shocking as I didn't expected.

In order to achieve Na explosions with small amounts of Na, the metal must be in the melted state and hit by water. That will divide it into small drops which will vaporise hence explode in contact with the water.

The effect can be reproduced in a heavy rain with a small piece of Na: because of the water drops, it'll eventualy explode.

And now, this is what I would love to have: sodium bricks cutting (http://www.armory.com/~images/imgbrowse.cgi?s=sodiumCutting&presentation=thumball)

[nbk2000]

Where did he get that much sodium?

[a_bab]

He probably ordered it. The guy is John DuBois' , apparently the author of the famous "Diary of a pyro". the guy's site (http://www.armory.com/~spcecdt/pyrotech/)


I'm still perplexed that one can get such an ammount of sodium in America, without licence or something.

[Myrol]

One Year ago I had also 500g of pure Sodium from "Phywe". I sold it to a Friend in Berlin because I had no real use for it :rolleyes: That was damn stupid :( Now I have only 50g left. Seems to be a nice amount for one Test in a lake :) ikbendirk: Yes Lithium can explode also forceful but you must ignite the Hydrogen with a Torch etc.! I extracted some Lithium from old Lithiumbatterys (you can get old ones for free from your local Photoshop! Ask them and say you need it for a Schoolproject :cool: ) I rolled the Gray Foil together and threwed it into Water....nothing happened.....but after I lit the Hydrogen.....it fizzes some seconds and PAAMM, it explodes!

[nbk2000]

I've got dozens of used lithium batteries I get from my work. I'll eventually get around to stripping out the lithium via electrolysis in pyridine.


He probably ordered it.


No shit. I thought he might have made his own molten electrolysis cell to get it from salt. :rolleyes:

The question is where?

[Jacks Complete]

D'oh! I posted a link to the same place as the OP. Anyway, the guy there says he bought it off ebay. A quick search on ebay.co.uk shows none, so YMMV.

[MightyQuinn®]

About 3 weeks ago there was a block of 260g for sale. I was the high bidder at $60.00 US but the auction was cancelled early for listing violations IIRC. I cannot find the email now.

I have looked faithfully since then and have found none. I have found a place in india that sells it at a premium....I will check here and there.

Edit* After typing this, I found this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=413&item=6100074881&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) :D

[K9]

He didn't get too bad a deal with it. Three and half pounds for 100 dollars is ok. Then again I wouldn't pay that much to do that, but if you were going to then 100 isn't so bad. I've never seen that much on eBay at one time, but I have seen fairly large amounts of it for auction.

[Jacks Complete]

1 and a half kilos for ~£65? Top bargain! I paid comparatively more for 100 grams from a proper chemical supply place, and that was a long time ago...

Searching on Google found me this, which I found rather funny:
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"used" chemicals? :confused: wtf?

[Myrol]

Hmm, well. Im working as a Laboratory Chemist and very soon
my Lab wants to waste around 1kg orginal sealed
Potassium made in the UDSSR :eek: It's 20 Years old but absolutely
pure because the Container is very tight sealed (I saw him twice,
it's a grey Metalbox 25cm diameter and 20cm high, 2kg heavy).

If my Master is so nice and give me that kilo Potassium......I can
celebtrate a POTASSIUM-Party :D So my Questions:
Has someone expirience with Pot. and HOW STRONG is it compared
to Sodium? I believe both are as same strong, but who knows?

Around one Year ago, I used all my left Sodium and even this was
very good! Chunks bigger then 5g always explode in Water (I had 500g).
Lithium is also good, but if you dont lite the Hydrogen with a Torch etc.
it just bubbles off relatively boring :rolleyes: Any expiriences are very welcome!

[Pb1]

Years ago, I saw a video in school where they dropped various alkali metals in water. Potassium, as can be expected by its position on the periodic table, was a good deal more vigorous than sodium. For the curious, this is what I can remember: Lithium bubbled slowly, sodium floated and gave of hydrogen, potassium did the same but more virorously, and cesium and rubidium have blurred in my memory into one big explosion:D.

[Centimeter]

Potassium produces a much more entertaining explosion. It becomes hot enough to ignite the hydrogen every time and it creates a rather significant amount of fire. In my chemistry class, we watched this video in which they showed some guys neutralising a pond with sodium. They had a five gallon bucket full and just for fun they threw a gigantic chunk in. It must have been about half of what they brought. The explsion was tremendous and further explosions lasted for several minutes. If I can get the video from my teacher, I might post it. I was working at a university in an organic chem lab and I noticed that they had quite a large amount of both sodium metal and potassium metal. I asked why they had it and they said that they used it to create metal (such as iron) compounds capable of being distilled. Surprisingly the potassium metal was a distinct purple. I was tempted to take a little but my damn conscience wouldn't let me. In any event, they made it sound like it was a common thing to find in organic chem labs. I have been considering electrolysing my own sodium and potassium for a while. I live right next to the primary coors plant in golden colorado and I can get crucibles for free from the university. I tried melting some gold that I recovered from computer circuits in them but every single one of them shattered. Of course I WAS trying to bring them up to 2200*F with a torch. I guess this will be my next project!

[Pb1]

I, too, have had the shattering crucible problem. The problem is that you need an even heat source. A torch from one side will produce high heat stress due to the other being much cooler, but a Bunsen burner's flame that engulfs the whole thing evenly should have no problems.