New Explosive ?

[Alchemist]

Hello all,

Well since I did not get many answers about ammonium/Potassium/etc. dinitramide (How to make it, etc.), I'll try another.

Has any one heard of and know anything about Hydrazinium Hydroformate. Like how to make it, properties, etc.? All I know is it's subpost to be a possible new high explosive, unlike the Dinitamides that where just new oxidizers! Bye..............................


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[CodeMason]

It could probably be made by simply mixing hydrazine with formic acid, creating the acid radical salt.

[tvs17]

I will have a look at some journals for you later today about this compound.
A similiar compound is hydrazinium nitroformate:

High-Performance Propellants Based on Hydrazinium Nitroformate, H.F.R. Schöyer; A.J. Schnorhk; P.A.O.G. Korting; P.J.van Lit; J.M. Mul; G.M.H.J.L. Gadiot; J.J. Meulenbrugge, 1995, Journal of propulsion and power, ISSN 0748-4658 (1995), vol. 11 (1995), afl. 4, pag. 856-869

[CodeMason]

Hydrazinium nitroformate is the trinitromethane (nitroform) salt of hydrazine, NH₂NH₃.C(NO₂)₃, and is a yellow-orange solid. It was first discovered in 1951.
Density: 1.86
Ignition point: 165ºC
Melting point: 123ºC
Molecular weight: 183.09 kg/kmol
Friction sensitivity: 14-36 N
Impact sensitivity: 2-5 Nm
It's a much more powerful oxidizer than ammonium perchlorate, and even ammonium dinitramide.

[Microtek]

And it detonates at 8400 mps, releasing 5044 J/g.
It has a brisance value of 131*10sup6
compared to around 120*10sup6 for rdx and petn or ca 150*10sup6 for hmx.

[CodeMason]

What about hydrazinium nitroformate's synthesis? I have done a US patent search, I have found one that is of interest (crossing fingers that this works first time):
<a href="http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1='6,218,577'.WKU.&OS=PN/6,218,577&RS=PN/6,218,577">6,218,57 7 - energetic hydrazinium salts, outlines various syntheses</a>
I have a feeling a Swedish patent search may turn up something more interesting, as, IIRC, it's chief industrial producer is Sweden.

[tvs17]

Very interesting patent!.
Dinitramide, diperchlorate, dinitrate, nitroformate salts of hydroxyethylhydrazine. When I go to university library I will look for some books or papers on these compounds.

[megalomania]

That entire group of explosives is very promising, they are environmentaly friendly being free of nasty heavy metals and halogens. Take hydrozinium azide for instance, it is being hailed as a new front runner for military explosives. It is reported as being 25% more powerful than HMX, the current most powerful explosive of use.*
The only problem is it is very hydroscopic, but a new synthesis is going to be reported in the latest issue of Propellants, Explosives, and Pyrotechnics. I will alert everone when the issue goes on the journal site.

* Not necessarily THE most powerful, but the most powerful of any other explosive that anybody would ever consider using.

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For the most comprehensive and informative web site on explosives and related topics, go to Megalomania's Controversial Chem Lab at http://surf.to/megalomania

[This message has been edited by megalomania (edited September 18, 2001).]

[HNIW]

I have a lot ( essential ) information about hydrazine nitrate, I'm not sure if they would match this topic? I've got them from Polish Institute of Explosives. Tell me if I should write it?

[Alchemist]

Hello all,

Yes HNIW, PLEASE post. That is why I started this topic.Also anything else that they may have of interest to us all! Please translate though. Thanks!

[This message has been edited by Alchemist (edited September 18, 2001).]

[HNIW]

Hydrazine nitrate NH2*NH2NO3 creates 2 forms stable ( melting point 70,7C ) and labile( m. p. 62,1C ). Hydrazine nitrate is well solube in water with heavy acid reaction. Melted reacts rapidly with metals like Zn and Cu. According to Hodgkinson it is propably caused because it creates azides. With nitrites it gives hydrogennitrate salts.
According to Kast hydrazine nitrate is stable in temp. 75C, it looses 0,7% od mass after 9 monthes of heating. It doesn't explode in 360C. Substance is sensitive to friction and hit like tetryl. Pressed by preasure 3000kG/cm3 it gives density 1,64. In this state it gives 320cm3 in led block test.
According to Medard hydrazine nitrate belongs to explosives easilly activated by blasting cap even in high density. Detonation velocity of 30mm explosive in paperboard shield
density:
1,0 3900m/s
1,2 5200m/s
1,25 5640m/s
1,3 5440m/s
1,45 5000m/s
1,57 3250m/s
Led block test rate is 20% higher than TNP. Sensitivityness to hit and friction is simillar to RDX. Hydrazine nitrate hygroscopicity is a little bit smaller than ammonium nitrate. It is stable in temp. 110-120C. Addtion of 10% of HN to ammonium nitrate essentially increases the easiness to detonation of AN.


Hydrazine dinitrate is unstable substance and can't have practical application.

[Microtek]

Hmm.. Am I missing something? I thought HN detonated at considerably higher velocities;
I've seen from 8500 to 8700 mps. Could there be a typo?

[HNIW]

This info comes from book "Chemistry and technology of explosives" by T. Urbañski. I don't thing that Medard was wrong.

[CodeMason]

[oops, double post]

[This message has been edited by CodeMason (edited September 19, 2001).]

[CodeMason]

A mixture of 80% hydrazinium nitrate dissolved in 20% hydrazine (thus, an Astrolite) will detonate at 8500m/s max. On its own, hydrazinium nitrate is a relatively low brisance explosive.

[cutefix]

A mixture of 65/35 hydrazine nitrate/HMX gives a VOD of 9023 m/s;HMX/HN(70/30) gives 9000m/s;RDX/HN(55/45) yields 8675 m/s check it out in:
http://jopeap.0catch.com/v25/issue3/v25pp126-132.pdf
that is from Mega’s new Journals(Propellants,Explosives &Pyrotechnics)…

[Mendeleev]

Holy shit. Mega stated that hydrozonium azide is 25% more powerful than HMX. Is this based on brisance value, kJ/mol output, vod, density or what? Because if that was based on vod, it would be over 11375 m/s which is quite a lot. Also, in US patent 4,487,938 entitled Tetranitroglycoluril and method of preparation thereof, it states that TNGU has a higher brisancy value than HMX despit a lower vod. I always thought that brisancy was a direct result of the expanding shockwave, which is the vod, so this has confused me a little bit, could anyone clear this up?

[tmp]

In Mega's "Controversial Chem Lab", HMX is listed with a Vod of 9110 m/sec.
If the increase in power is in VoD wouldn't hyrazinium azide be 10185 m/sec ?
I was thinking back to the equation for kinetic energy: 1/2 * m * (v^2).

[Mr Cool]

I've heard that ammonium azide is quite volatile (because it's a weak acid salt of a weak base I guess), I wonder if HA is the same?
Anyway, I have everything I need to make some...

[Hystrix]

Holy shit. Mega stated that hydrozonium azide is 25% more powerful than HMX. Is this based on brisance value, kJ/mol output, vod, density or what? Because if that was based on vod, it would be over 11375 m/s which is quite a lot. Also, in US patent 4,487,938 entitled Tetranitroglycoluril and method of preparation thereof, it states that TNGU has a higher brisancy value than HMX despit a lower vod. I always thought that brisancy was a direct result of the expanding shockwave, which is the vod, so this has confused me a little bit, could anyone clear this up?
As for hydrazonium azide, I think lead block expansion was meant. Explosives containing a lot of hydrogen (and low content of carbon at the same time) usually have high VoD but rather low brisance. And, of course, its VoD is much less that 11000 m/s.
TENGU detonates even slightly faster than HMX when its density is close to TMD. The main factor of brisance is not VoD but detonation pressure. It can be calculated according to this formula: P = d * (D^2) / 4, where P is pressure (GPa), d is density (g/cc) and D is VoD (km/s). This formula works satisfactorily for C-H-N-O explosives.

[Mendeleev]

Interesting, I though vod was a direct product of the pressure wave forming. So, rather the vod creates pressure, and high density sort of "concentrates" the vod to get higher pressure, or am I full of crap?